What happened to them?

[Sabio]

All we really know is Grendal killed him, RJ said something about where he died made bringing  him back impossible .  I think most (like myself) assumed he couldn't be brought back because he probably died by balefire, but RJ mentioned it was where he died.  Far as I know he never elaborated on it any more than that.

 

Last we knew of Liandrin she was a servant to Suroth, she was pretty useless as a channeler after Mogi pretty much blocked her  from the source.

 

As for Weiramon, I know most DF aren't simply killed but he really was a bumbling general so once discovered wasn't sure if he had any use to Ishy anymore.  I was hoping a scene would be in the last battle of Mat getting word of a suicidal calvary charge  at his line and Mat wondering  what strange trick Dem was up to.

[kotaotan]

You know, Weiramon was always interesting to me. I don't know that he was so much a bumbling fool as a plant to try and 1) Convince Rand to do something incredibly stupid and 2) DO something incredibly stupid to undermine Rand's well laid plans. I do agree though that once he reported being outed he was probably ripped to shreds by someone.

[Cosmic Champion]

.

The Shadio!

 

Did they ever make it back to the waste; it's a very looong and difficult journey.

 

And how many of them were left when they started back. That certainly was one group that could take a licking and keep on ticking.

 

 

I wonder if some member here could create a graph of their losses from the series? Similar to this one of Napoleon's disastrous Russian campaign, which I have always found very sad and fascinating-

 

 

[jack of shadows]

@lerayray,

mat scribbled a note to tuon,telling her to bring her army back to the battle,

and sent naeff to do it.

[Sabio]

Not sure about Shaido numbers, I always thought there was a bit too many of them even with the brotherless joining them.  They took major beatings at Caemyln, the Wells, Sam spreading them out, and finally the battle with Perrin and the Seanchan.  In TFOH when Mat was looking at the map it said Couladin had 160,000 spears Shaido and those who went to join him.  Never mentions casualties in battles except apparently at the Wells was the worst loss they ever experienced.  To me seems like just too many of them  since even after the defeat against Perrin he had to leave because another Shaido force was moving in.  Numbers for everything IMO got a bit messed up towards the end.  Just look at how many Seanchan there were.

[MattB]

My pick: Lamgwin.

I almost feel Jordan had a hard time hiding his respect for this character when he was in the narritive. For me, it this seems to be clear from his writing (though this may just be my subjective interpretation).

For a minor character, he has always seemed to be a solid, stead-fast guy who quietly played along with the best interest of events - he always seemed to know the right side to support, and did so unerringly and without question.

The fact that he seems to like cats is just another bonus for me personally.

He's introduced as a roughed-up street thug, but (unless memory fails me) hasn't done anything dishonorable at all since we've known him ... quite the opposite, in fact.

[Francesco Bevagna]

In fact, many of the minor characters that had a noticeable "screen" time during the saga went MIA in the fury of the LB, and I also wonder what happened to them in the aftermath. I just hope that the soon to come WoT companion is going to shed some light on their survival or final demise...

[lerayray]

Thanks Jack of Shadows

 

Another one: Valen Luca. I really thought his storyline was pretty much wrapped up, but when Mat was sneaking into Ebou Dar, he sees that Petra is a Seanchan guard, and then it was never mentioned again. What happened to the managerie to mention Petra here?

[mb]

If I remember correctly, Luca's show were slower than Matt & his Band after they left the show.  One possibility might be that Tuon and her guards met the show at some place and took some of their people.

[MattB]

Perhaps Petra was offered a better job as a guard, after showing his bravery standing up to the rowdy Seanchan soldiers that tried to break into the show earlier on.

I don't think it's feasible because the timelines don't add up, but it would have been a cute notion to have him and Clarine as the ones who purchased Setalle's inn.

[Orderofolde]

All we really know is Grendal killed him, RJ said something about where he died made bringing  him back impossible .  I think most (like myself) assumed he couldn't be brought back because he probably died by balefire, but RJ mentioned it was where he died.  Far as I know he never elaborated on it any more than that.

 

Last we knew of Liandrin she was a servant to Suroth, she was pretty useless as a channeler after Mogi pretty much blocked her  from the source.

 

As for Weiramon, I know most DF aren't simply killed but he really was a bumbling general so once discovered wasn't sure if he had any use to Ishy anymore.  I was hoping a scene would be in the last battle of Mat getting word of a suicidal calvary charge  at his line and Mat wondering  what strange trick Dem was up to.

RJ stated it was both WHERE he died, and HOW he died that prevented the DO from bringing him back.  His words.  The only other clue we have is some sherlock and watson conversation a fan wrote and sent to RJ about it not really being important.  RJ was so enamored and tickled by the conspiracy that cropped up he never had the heart to tell most people that he was simply killed off with a dramatic literary flair and little thought, not meant to cause a stir or to ever appear again.  After all, he is searching for wine and passes through a doorway into a pantry in the Caemlyn Palace and then dies before he could do more than utter, "You?  No-!"  Unless he stepped through Graendal's gateway that led to world of dreams since she liked going there in the flesh and she Balefired him there...a pantry in the palace with balefire would work except the where part wouldn't make sense unless the "where" is a play on words to indicate "Rand's Camp" perhaps.  A subject of great controversy and debate, and not really important in the end after all.   (Graendal had searched Samael's stash in Illian, and was there to do the same with Rhavin's small horde of AOL knickknacks we are led to believe, which makes sense as she lusts after ter'angreal.)

[Orderofolde]

Perhaps Petra was offered a better job as a guard, after showing his bravery standing up to the rowdy Seanchan soldiers that tried to break into the show earlier on.

 

I don't think it's feasible because the timelines don't add up, but it would have been a cute notion to have him and Clarine as the ones who purchased Setalle's inn.

Given the Seanchan penchant for sending in spies ahead of the return to include Seekers if one picked up the man's reaction to Mat naming the Daughter of the Nine Moons and another few hints of the seeker Moore about in the books, he might have been a plant or a spy.  Petra presents as a large yet shy man, gentle even, speaking of opening an inn with his wife.  Then suddenly he is there as a Seanchan guard far from the show?  Was it by chance that the animal trainer with her elephant Sridit took shelter there?  Perhaps the Seanchan identified the show as a perfect cover for moving across the lands as many of the main characters did when taking shelter.  A perfect place to hide a strongman and a woman who trains dogs to be your eyes and ears.  They likely left the show soon after Mat and Tuon did.  Them buying Setalle's Inn would be a nice touch.  hopefully we get thrown a few crumbs on them in the final companion/encyclopedia.

[MattB]

 

Perhaps Petra was offered a better job as a guard, after showing his bravery standing up to the rowdy Seanchan soldiers that tried to break into the show earlier on.

 

I don't think it's feasible because the timelines don't add up, but it would have been a cute notion to have him and Clarine as the ones who purchased Setalle's inn.

Given the Seanchan penchant for sending in spies ahead of the return to include Seekers if one picked up the man's reaction to Mat naming the Daughter of the Nine Moons and another few hints of the seeker Moore about in the books, he might have been a plant or a spy.  Petra presents as a large yet shy man, gentle even, speaking of opening an inn with his wife.  Then suddenly he is there as a Seanchan guard far from the show?  Was it by chance that the animal trainer with her elephant Sridit took shelter there?  Perhaps the Seanchan identified the show as a perfect cover for moving across the lands as many of the main characters did when taking shelter.  A perfect place to hide a strongman and a woman who trains dogs to be your eyes and ears.  They likely left the show soon after Mat and Tuon did.  Them buying Setalle's Inn would be a nice touch.  hopefully we get thrown a few crumbs on them in the final companion/encyclopedia.

 

 

I have a hard time accepting the idea that Petra was a Seanchan plant.

 

First, if he was Seanchan, it would have been obvious just by his accent. While it's not out of the question that the Seanchan might have used spies from this side of the Aryth, it doesn't seem to fit with their meticulous observation of roles and hierarchy.

 

Second, if memory serves me well (though I might be wrong), Petra was one of the first, back when Luca's show only had half a dozen or so folk. I imagine this was well before the Return began - growing a traveling show from a handful of performers to a huge circus and menagerie would take many years.

 

While certainly feasible, I feel that theory makes too many assumptions and hidden connections just to explain Petra's presence as a guard under the Seanchan. In my opinion, the "Seanchan respected his bravery and hired him as a guard" theory I mentioned fits much neater, with respect to Occam's Razor.

 

But I suspect neither of us have the right of it. =)

[Sabio]

Might of simply been  a reward, I am sure Tuon would of spoke highly of the help Luca gave and taking in the s'redit.  Not to mention his standing up to drunk soilders.   He also might of seen the Seanchan were the future and was better to simply serve them.

 

@Oder, Once his being balefired in the pantry was ruled out I always assumed it was some sort of gateway.  For instance if you were skimming and fell off  into that darkness, would you ever die and if you did could you be brought back?  So possible she opened a portal under him and simply zapped him to somewhere.  Since she was more than likely as surprised to see him as he was her, it was something quick and didn't leave a mess.  A lot of the issue is not knowing the DO's power, can he get your soul back if you died in another world, world of dreams, pocket plane, etc..  We know if you die in the Genji (spelling) tower he can get you back since Moridin killed Lanfear to free her. 

[Ryamano]

And Asmodean.  Did we ever get clarity on what exactly happened to him and why he wasn't reincarnated into another body

 

The text of his death strongly suggests that he was killed by balefire. The appendix of one of the later books (along with some conversation between ishamayel and Graendal) show that Graendal was the one who did it. People killed by balefire can't be reincarnated by the Dark One. I also doubt the DO would want Asmodean back, since he kind of betrayed him.

[mb]

The conversation was with Shaidar Haran; not with Ishamael/Moridin.

To me a Skimming type Gateway seems more likely than balefire since Asmodean & Graendal seemed very close to each other and since he managed to say 2 words.

[Sabio]

I wish RJ had answered this besides just leaving it at where and how he died.  Maybe was some sort of balefire on a skimming platform.

[Orderofolde]

I just wanna know whether Gill reopens his inn, or stays as part if Morgase's retinue, or something altogether different.

I don't think Gill ever closed the Inn, he had the rest of his staff there, especially the cook who pretty much ran the place while Gill hid in his private library.

[Orderofolde]

I'm not 100% sure on it, but I think Dobraine is mentioned as being in command of the battle at Shayol Ghul after Ituralde realized he wasn't right in the head. Or he was in command. But I'm not entirely sure on it and don't have my book to check.

+1 from what I recall as well

[Orderofolde]

Dobraine Taborwin. Dude just straight up disappeared.

 

Kind of would of liked to see more of the Two River people who went to the WT and BT.

We saw mentions of Joneth and the "Two Rivers Lads" but too true, we see nothing of the Novices aside from what we can infer about "all novices and accepted" lending their strength in Mayene for healing.  Would have been nice to see some of the powerful new novices boosting the weaker Aes Sedai in links on the battlefield.

[Orderofolde]

about the channelers that were forced to the Shadow; the last I skimmed of them, they were captured by ogier (along with other channelers of the Shadow).

I recall Robert Jordan providing info about channelers forced to the Shadow; I think at the 13th Depository site.

We have Lanfear indicate that whats done is done, yet we have views from the BT that turned channelers are less effective, less trusted.  We also have seen both Ingtar and Verin who were among the top Darkfriends summoned to Ishy's little party in TGH turn back to the light.  Ingtar does it and Verin always planned on it, but this seems to require their death if they have taken the oaths and used an oath rod in Verin's case.  

 

From Androl's perspective, we see Evan turned and he doesn't seem to take any oaths to the GL.  Perhaps if he had, he couldn't have been able to attack that other Ashaman like he did with Androl's playing on his madness.  Without oaths and without an oath rod to make them (in the shadow's eyes) unbreakable, it is more possible.  We just know that Perrin couldn't undo it in the wolf dream.  Another case and point for an Aes Sedai was the one the BA hunters in the tower found and removed the oaths on(not that great with names here), a painful process, so we know those bound could eventually be undone.  Will it return them back to who they used to be?  I want to say not a chance to perhaps somewhat, a shell or a remnant.  I say that because we see Logain changed after unsuccessful attempts to turn him.  He is darker and walking a more gray path than one in the light, but finds his way back after saving the women and children the Trollocs are attacking.

[mb]

One of the Black Ajah at the Darkfriend gathering was Liandrin; confirmed in Shadow Rising.  From what I recall/skimmed, the books do not reveal the other.

[Sabio]

People seem to forget Logain always walked a darkish path, he went to Rand out of need but he was till the same Logain who started a war.  He might of became darker after the attempted turning, but he was never the help an old lady acros the street type.  The main difference between Taim and Logain was Taim reminded me of Dem, thinking he was superior and resenting being under he someone he felt was inferior.  Logain accepted who Rand was and didn't resent it.  My guess is those forcefully turned to the shadow have no way back as it seem to alter something inside of them.

[Drakkon]

The conversation was with Shaidar Haran; not with Ishamael/Moridin.

To me a Skimming type Gateway seems more likely than balefire since Asmodean & Graendal seemed very close to each other and since he managed to say 2 words.

There was the conversation between Rand and Moridin, Moridin specifically said that Balefire was the only way to keep the DO from bringing someone back.

[jack of shadows]

@drakkon,

yes,rand's second conversation with moridin(the gathering storm chapter 15),

"death is no barrier to my master save for those who have known balefire.

they are beyond his grasp."