[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Andrej]

I won't be here for EOD. I have about 8 minutes until the bell rings before I take on a swarm of children for the afternoon so I'm afraid I won't be much help. I haven't read much from the last point I posted because of school and what not.

 

I feel reasonably comfortable with all of the purposed wagons at this point.

 

Sorry I don't have more time so GLGL moving forward. Unfortunately we're at a juncture where we still need to clear some of the muddy water to get a clearer picture of the game. N3 kills should be very helpful in that aspect.

[Nynaeve]

 

In summary through D1 I garnered a list of suspects that are still living.  I've got Cass and Des as clearer townies or at almost definitely not mafia and Thane has fallen back down my list as has Nyn and Dice.  Those three are my current bottom three based on EoD D1 alone.  Tress didn't do much better but I don't have enough to go on with her from D1 and Rags wasn't around so he, somewhat unfairly, gets an exemption from this though I expect that to clear up soon.

 

 

In regards to Rags, you say that somewhat unfairly he gets an exemption from this. Why? He dropped some good posts but he also never got involved in voting on D1 or D2, been slanking consistently with promises to catch up and be involved that he never followed through on, mentioning RL or the other game he's in as excuses. He dropped a serious or jokey vote on Salami (both instances aren't a good look) and took off. I just find it intriguing that you commented about me not doing a complete read list by page 25-30 but you're content with his level of participation in the game, read development and voting pattern (or rather lack of).

 

He said several times to players not to bother to try tone reading him or figure him out cause it's impossible.... which comes across as weird to me. Wouldn't he want people to properly read him if he's town? This "don't even bother trying, you can't read me" hazing is a weird stance to take. You've noted yourself that you've never seen him this inactive. And there's that comment Kivam made of Rags being good at faking tone... which I have no idea where he got from considering this is their first game together. 

 

I don't understand why you're willing to give him a pass when he seems to just be coasting through.

[Nynaeve]

I'm prolly gonna hit the sack soon cause it's been a very long day. Will try to check in before turning in. 

[dicetosser1]

OK SO IM GONE FOR THE DAY.

 

ITS MY DAUGHTERS YR 12 FORMAL TONIGHT AND DOING PREP ALL DAY.

[Cass]

^ I can verify Dice's excuse for not being here today is true. (Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Dice, Enjoy!!!!)

[Songstress]

Lots of people gone for the rest of the day.

 

I'll be checking in as time permits until deadline. On my phone so paging back and finding quotes will be a no-go, but if there's anything I need to address I will.

 

As of right now it's pretty pointless, but I'll put it on record and vote with my best guess. I think the last remaining mafia would (and should) be fighting pretty hard to stay alive, if they're even under suspicion at all. That doesn't jibe with Rags' behavior right now. He could be the SK and just have given up on this game, I guess, but I would be shocked if he was mafia.

 

[v]##Cass [/v]

[Cass]

*Polite cough*

 

 

On demand of our beloved mod: 

Vote Count D3.04:

Rags (4): Dicehaslice [#3027], Pralaya [#3275], Nyn [#3277], Thane Vakarian [#3321]

Dice (2): Hallia [#3048], Deslami [#3295]

Tress (1): AJ [#2932], 
Deslami (1): Rags [#3117]

Nyn (1): Darthe [#3083]

Not Voting (2): Cass, , Tress  

At the gallows: Rags

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

I believe you may have missed my vote:

 

 

TBH I think I'm stuck on the question of voting inactives over people who I think might be sus. 

I struggled tonight with my re-read, however, looking at AJs stuff:

I still don't like:
- his defensive/cranky tone after/when I asked why he thought Verb, Wom and DPR were all voting for him;
- the way he random voted Sili straight up early D1 on nothing but a 'hunch' and something about the joke vote against Thane (which Csarmi did too btw, but nothing was said about that btw)

(might help if I had some meta to go on here - is AJ always cranky when he's suspicious?)

---BUT---

There is something in the way that Kiv interacts with him here that makes me think he may have been being played with by scum the same way I was. AJ is still the same defensive, cranky tone in this interaction, but there's something about Kiv's post that reminds me of the way he was in interactions with me (slightly long, patronising/dismissive, logic-twisted conversation posts) and - and this is the kicker for me, (silly idea or not): it included the statement "You're better than that, aren't you?" Which is essentially what Kiv said to me on multiple occasions, including here, at the very EoD when he knew the game was up.

 

 

 

Screw it.  I'm at the gallows anyway, since Verb will put me in the lead if nothing else breaks, and I'm more inclined to lynch AJ than VerBarm anyway.
 
[v]##Andrej[/v]
 
FTR, would consider a CFD on Derf after those last pushes

 
 
You don't want to explain my response?

Just saw it, and just did.
 
And as for Wes on me, he said it very clearly: He doesn't even bother trying for me until D3 at the earliest, because my play D1 & D2 is too consistent for him to have any specific feel. 
 
You're better than needing all of this spelled out.

I don't know if that actually clears him (of course it doesn't) but my gut says it's strange that it's the same level of effort Kiv put into making me look bad, using the same ego-suck-crushing tone. And since I know I'm Town, maybe this suggests that AJ could be too. Maybe that's silly associative logic, I dunno. My head's too scrambled to deal with more post searching and stuff on mobile internet right now (nearly 3am).

I have a dr's appointment in the morning but will try to make it back for EoD and more real searching before that.

Just in case I'm not back or internet is still crappy, I'm voting [v]##Rags[/v], based on inactivity.

My picks on possible SK are still the same as before, for the same reasons.

 

 

...

[Cass]

gah

 

Spoiler thing edited crappy - the vote was originally from the quoted post.

[Cass]

Lots of people gone for the rest of the day.

 

I'll be checking in as time permits until deadline. On my phone so paging back and finding quotes will be a no-go, but if there's anything I need to address I will.

 

As of right now it's pretty pointless, but I'll put it on record and vote with my best guess. I think the last remaining mafia would (and should) be fighting pretty hard to stay alive, if they're even under suspicion at all. That doesn't jibe with Rags' behavior right now. He could be the SK and just have given up on this game, I guess, but I would be shocked if he was mafia.

 

[v]##Cass [/v]

 

A Townie noob who's dug herself some pretty silly holes would (and should) be fighting hard at this point too... jus saying...

[TheRagnarok]

Sorry I've been so AWOL.  RL has been crazy the past couple days and I haven't been able to catch up.  I'm gonna work on getting fully caught up tomorrow.

[TheRagnarok]

Oh, and I just saw that I'm up to be lynched.  And with only 4 votes?  Holy shit have you people done anything while I've been AWOL?  I'm going to flip town, so if you go through with this, I expect that due to the tiny number of voters on me, scum are staying off to make themselves look good.  Or a scum slid on at the end of the vote with crappy reasoning like 'he hasn't been here a lot' just to make sure the mislynch goes through. 

[Darthe]

Rags Im pushing against lynching you. I think there are better reasons to vote plenty of people than "havent seen much from this slot". Its just a dumb lynch.

[Darthe]

[unvote][v]##dice [/v]

[TheRagnarok]

So voting dice is my best bet to stay alive?  Ok.

 

##unvote vote Dice

[Darthe]

Make that red and youre one down

[TheRagnarok]

Ugh, too many dumb rules about voting.

 

##unvote vote dice

[Songstress]

 

 

Lots of people gone for the rest of the day.

 

I'll be checking in as time permits until deadline. On my phone so paging back and finding quotes will be a no-go, but if there's anything I need to address I will.

 

As of right now it's pretty pointless, but I'll put it on record and vote with my best guess. I think the last remaining mafia would (and should) be fighting pretty hard to stay alive, if they're even under suspicion at all. That doesn't jibe with Rags' behavior right now. He could be the SK and just have given up on this game, I guess, but I would be shocked if he was mafia.

 

[v]##Cass [/v]

A Townie noob who's dug herself some pretty silly holes would (and should) be fighting hard at this point too... jus saying...

That comment was specifically directed at why I don't think Rags is mafia, ya know. The fact that you decided to apply it to you doesn't help my suspicion level, but I'm sure it'll work in your favor for someone else.

[TheRagnarok]

 

 

Lots of people gone for the rest of the day.

 

I'll be checking in as time permits until deadline. On my phone so paging back and finding quotes will be a no-go, but if there's anything I need to address I will.

 

As of right now it's pretty pointless, but I'll put it on record and vote with my best guess. I think the last remaining mafia would (and should) be fighting pretty hard to stay alive, if they're even under suspicion at all. That doesn't jibe with Rags' behavior right now. He could be the SK and just have given up on this game, I guess, but I would be shocked if he was mafia.

 

[v]##Cass [/v]

A Townie noob who's dug herself some pretty silly holes would (and should) be fighting hard at this point too... jus saying...

That comment was specifically directed at why I don't think Rags is mafia, ya know. The fact that you decided to apply it to you doesn't help my suspicion level, but I'm sure it'll work in your favor for someone else.

 

Tresssssss I don't wanna die.  Vote dice.  He is a poopy head and I'm adorable.  What more reason do you need?

[Cass]

It was too late once I put this all together to post it and convince people to change votes without certainly becoming NK if I’m right, but… in case I’m on the list for NK anyway, here goes…

 

 

*Goes all CoD and chooses perk ‘Last Stand’* [v]unvote[/v]  [v]##AJ[/v]

 

 

(Bear with me, it’s bound to be another ginormous eye-glazing Cass-y type post…and yes, some of it is repeats from previous notes).  

 

 

 

My gut’s still not good with AJ. As I said before I can’t shake the feeling there is something in the way he random voted Sili straight up (on nothing but a 'hunch' and something about the joke vote against Thane - which Csarmi did too btw but he did not mention).

 

 

I also still don't like his overly defensive/cranky tone when I asked why/pointed out why Villagers Verbarm, Wom and DPR were all voting for him at the last EoD, and I don’t like the possibility that Kiv jumped on his train last minute to waylay suspicion (after all the ‘confrontation’ they’d been having, why hadn’t Kiv voted him over VerBarm before then?) I find this especially disturbing when coupled with the potential random cryptic Seer-Wom suggesting to the vig that he also wanted AJ shot SEE LINK

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/page-170?do=findComment&comment=3383587 .

 

 

Obviously, I know  it’s possible that I’m wrong on my interpretation of Wom’s madness, Kiv’s madness and Wom, Verb and DPR were all wrong on their vote for AJ last EoD but… that’s a lot of counting quite a few (apparently good) Town to make mistakes…

 

 

IN AJ’s DEFENCE all I really have is what I mentioned before (There is something in the way that Kiv interacts with him here that makes me think he may have been being played with the same way I was. AJ is still the same defensive, cranky tone, but there's something about Kiv's post that reminds me of the way he was in interactions with me (slightly long, patronising/dismissive, logic-twisted conversation posts) and and this is the kicker for me, silly or not: it included the statement "You're better than that, aren't you?" Which is essentially what Kiv said to me on multiple occasions when logically I may have been getting close/upper hand).

 

 

Here’s points from an ISO I started after writing this intro and quick final notes on other players, as soon as I got home from the doctors, with just under an hour to go. It will probably end up being incomplete. Scratch that. Spent too much time on general feels. Spoiler just has unlinked notes.

 

 

 

AJ’s question for asking Leelou’s motive for saying ‘sup’ is neutral sounded strange -1. Kiv mentioned that he also found it strange (p. 71) ?+1 for AJ since Kiv may have been being weird?. Also neutral on AJ’s later response that he was defending Lee since he didn’t really see wolves discrediting easy townie brownies.

 

 

Heh. Well that was less than awesome. Everything else I have has been said above *slightly blushed*

 

 

Still, I’m going with my gut.

 

 

 

 

If I’m wrong about AJ,

my next biggest concern at this point for ‘active’ people is Tress. I’m not sure I’ll have time to do an ISO on her (tried last night but my brain was a mess). I don’t know Tress and have not had a lot to go on with her earlier quietness this game. Maybe I’m omgus’ing her since she’s been pointing out my errors, but truth is (except for what she has said about me) I actually agree with a lot of what she’s said since she’s got active (even the points about me I can kinda understand her having, since she didn’t have interaction with me in the early game), but somehow it still pings.

 

 

 

I’m making a distinction between active and relatively inactive people because although they may be scum, I still haven’t followed up enough on Rags and Pral to make an ‘informed’ read. (Go on, shoot me :P) Going on nothing but gut though, I find Rags more sus than Pral. Despite coming in after Arsis, and going quiet for a while, recent Pral comes across to me as genuinely even with his tone, and offers up good reads. Recent Rags seems standoffish and disinterested. His absolute lack of involvement is disturbing. That’s all I’ve got.

 

 

My favourites for SK at this point are Deslarmi or Hallia.

I outlined reasons for Deslarmi a couple of times, mostly what caught my eye was the massive hypothesising about who could be SK, whilst at the same time advocating that it’s dubious to hunt SK http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/page-117?do=findComment&comment=3380828 and then the fact that for all their Towny FoS’ing, their vote patterns don’t make much sense http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/page-125?do=findComment&comment=3381303 . Potentially this is just them as a Hydra Town. Potentially this is me with no idea what’s going on. Potentially they are SK and playing really well.

 

 

Not sure if these points are mentioned in the stuff above, but they’re what’s left of notes so, also weird: Csarmi asked people why they aren’t picking up on his meta and when I asked what meta he was referring to he said he was waiting to see if others pointed it out (p. 121). It sounded like he was baiting/waiting for people to slip. Page 71 Des approved of my vote against Sili, confirming my mal-read link with DPR after I really randomly let the argument against Yates slip. But that was just a page after he mentioned that he wouldn’t like really like to lynch Sili himself (P. 70). I also have something about ‘Grills Kivam’ p. 49, ‘asks Kiv why Sili still at top’ (p. 49) and ‘gets emo, changes opinions on Sili, votes DPR’ p. 70. Sorry don’t have time to link.

 

 

Halli I also haven’t followed fantastically and don’t have enough on, (which is why I’m placing her under Deslarmi for this slot. If everyone else thinks Deslarmi are true town, then I’d look here). But I can’t let go of the suspicion that she may be SK – since she’d also still peek Town. Her ‘inactivity’ early on is what concerns me, coupled with the way she writes her posts since she rejoined the action. Gut says posts are really well informed on nuances that she may have missed if she really wasn’t here.

 

 

 

By default then, I have relatively good feels about everybody left. Important points inside spoiler.

I know there have been some good cases against Thane and Nyn, and I have my own doubts about my ability to read them and Darthe with any accuracy and I still don’t get inactive Dice. All of these players, if they end up flipping scum have done a good job sounding Town in their defences against the various arguments, at least to me. And interestingly, you three can’t seem to agree 100% on anything at all. That kind of interrelated but non-corroborative suspicion also makes me think you might all be Town.

 

 

I’m still aware of the fact there’s potential there for scum (for example, DARTHE, did you really have to go and post instructions at the top of your awesome Towny posts that made it sound like you were deliberately leading us on a dance around the room? (“It’s time to get funky” #3347 p. 168; “Clap, clap, clap, clap your hands” #3355 p. 168; “To the left now ya’ll” #3360 p. 168). Dude, those posts (and most of yours this game) were level and fantastic ‘Townie' effort, and this may just have been light hearted but it’s got my overly suspicious mind putting you right down at the bottom of this list, alongside the fact that I noted on D1 you were one of the first to start acting all ‘game on’. All of this is either dedicated Town or rather clever Wolf. It’s not because you cleared me, but I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

 

 

 In a nutshell (but seriously, read my notes). If this is my last post it won’t kill you.

 

 

Most Sus

AJ

 

Tress

 

 

Next highest Sus of the ‘actives’ / Favourites for SK

Deslarmi

 

Hallia

 

 

Suspicious due to Inactivity/Unknown

Rags *just saw last post, emo, don't really like*

 

Pral

 

 

Fooled/Gut saying they’re ok

Darthe

 

Thane

 

Nyn

 

Dice

 

[Cass]

Holy cr&&!

 

Got in!

[TheRagnarok]

 

Rags *just saw last post, emo, don't really like*

I'm sorry, what was emo?  I think you just completely missed the silly tone I tried to convey with that post.  And even then I have no clue how you consider that emo.

 

I don't do emo.  I'm happy-go-lucky 99% of the time I'm in these games.  I'll tell someone to f off, not go emo.

[Tommyrod]

Stop posting.

 

Gonna do a vote count and scene around 10.

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D3.Final:

 

Rags (4): Dicehaslice [#3027], Pral [#3275], Nyn [#3277], Thane [#3321]

Dice (4): Hallia [#3048], Deslami [#3295], Darthe [#3413], Rags [#3414]

Tress (1): AJ [#2932]

Cass (1): Tress [#3406]

AJ (1): Cass [#3419]

 

Not Voting (0)

 

At the gallows: Rags

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

TheRagnarok has been lynched. He was: a Vanillager.

 

 

IT IS NIGHT!

 

SORRY FOR THE DELAY. DAY WILL START 2 HOURS LATE AS A RESULT.

 

PM ME YOUR ACTIONS BY 9:00 AM EST!

[Tommyrod]

NIGHT 3 END

 

AndreJ tried to fly a kite. He failed. He was:

 

 

A Vanillager.

 

 

Nynaeve be like "Eres tan patético, que resultas entrañable." She was:

 

 

An Even Night Vig.

 

 

 

IT IS DAY!

 

YOU MAY POST!

 

DAY 4 ENDS MONDAY. LYNCHES ARE NOW MON/WED/FRI.

[csarmi]

Oops.

 

Sorry Nyn.