[Standard] - Hitchhiker's Game to the Galaxy - Game Over

[Andrej]

 

I also, and continue to think, that Nyn looks scummy this game. She seems to be taking things that would generally be viewed as pro-town or null and casting them in a bad light. There was a post by BFG earlier that she 'me too-ed' on that I thought was pretty opportunistic.

 

I obviously disagree lol

 

I actually think it's a bit narrow minded to say something like that. Just because something seems pro-town and null to you, doesn't mean that it does for me. And vice versa. I don't feel there are any constants in the game, but rather interpretations. I have my way of thinking, my concerns, a rather paranoid persona and my thought process is not necessarily compatible with others. And that's fine. But ultimately, If I've pointed out that something looks bad to me, it means that it does. EOS. And I tried to explain it to the best of my ability. Am I always right? I would never claim that.

 

It's just like I was talking about with Tommy when we were playing in Real Genius. He was trying to teach me a bit more about mafia and linked me to a person's post describing what to look for when trying to scumhunt. sort of a 101 scumhinting tips. It referred to all kinds of things, for instance that vote hopping loads was a townie trait and placing a vote on one person and not moving it much is more of a scummy trait. And then I laughed and said that I hate loads of vote hopping and that I usually viewed that as a bad thing, and wouldn't really do that myself. In fact, 60-70% of the signs of scuminess that were pointed out there are stuff I do as a townie.

 

So again, a matter of interpretation.

 

 

 

Nyn

 

I get interpretation and personal perspective. I'm sure there are things that I find scummy that others wouldn't really agree with - my point here, and that I've pointed out a few different times in regard to you this game is that I find you using information not necessarily part of the game to help you with your conclusions. Using Dice's time at DM as a way to imply he was lying about the activity list was one. Now saying that you checked the userlist to see who was online before the DL past as a way to downplay Pral's self-vote is another example.

 

AJ, if you had to pick one person to vig-shoot tonight, who would it be?

 

 

Nyn

 

I'd shoot Hallia in the face. Perhaps I already did

[Nynaeve]

I get interpretation and personal perspective. I'm sure there are things that I find scummy that others wouldn't really agree with - my point here, and that I've pointed out a few different times in regard to you this game is that I find you using information not necessarily part of the game to help you with your conclusions. Using Dice's time at DM as a way to imply he was lying about the activity list was one. Now saying that you checked the userlist to see who was online before the DL past as a way to downplay Pral's self-vote is another example.

 

I basically use whatever information is available to me. Some might not like the idea of looking at the who's online list, like dice mentioned in previous games. But I don't see anything wrong with it. All it says is who's online. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

 

 

AJ, if you had to pick one person to vig-shoot tonight, who would it be?

 

 

Nyn

 

I'd shoot Hallia in the face. Perhaps I already did

 

 

Heh. Okay.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Hallia]

AJ's afraid of mice

[Nynaeve]

who would you pick for a Vig yourself Nyn? just curious

 

I'd probably holster. Everything feels a bit in the air and I need some flip info to tie things together. But if I had to, hypothetically, I'd prolly shoot Lazy. The fact that he hasn't shown up to clear things up is discouraging. But it is the weekend, so who knows.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

AJ's afraid of mice

 

Not surprised lol

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

Cory, how are you today? :)

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[BFG]

Starting reread and just wanted to say that Nyn won.

 

Post 42

 

 

0% chance I am Mafia

 

Race to NK is GO!

 

Then I will consider it.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

 

[Cory Caboose]

Cory, how are you today? :)

 

 

 

 

Nyn

 

Head hurts

 

Continuing my reread, should be done today 

[Nynaeve]

Head hurts

 

Continuing my reread, should be done today 

 

 

Yeah, headaches seem to be going around. Wanna borrow my extra brainz?

 

And Good good. Looking forward to it.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

 

Heh, that looks like fun!!

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Pralaya]

 

I get interpretation and personal perspective. I'm sure there are things that I find scummy that others wouldn't really agree with - my point here, and that I've pointed out a few different times in regard to you this game is that I find you using information not necessarily part of the game to help you with your conclusions. Using Dice's time at DM as a way to imply he was lying about the activity list was one. Now saying that you checked the userlist to see who was online before the DL past as a way to downplay Pral's self-vote is another example.

 

I basically use whatever information is available to me. Some might not like the idea of looking at the who's online list, like dice mentioned in previous games. But I don't see anything wrong with it. All it says is who's online. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

The issue here is that you are alleging that I used it when I placed my self-vote, when I don't even know how to see who is online. It is fine if you are using it, but trying to use that logic on someone else's actions is where the problem is.

[Pralaya]

And on a general note, unlike Des, I'm not a fan of a no lynch at all. Especially on D1 where we have room for mistakes. Because we could have gained quite a bit of insight and have a little more ground to stand on, even if Pral didn't flip scum. But I guess that's a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

 

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

[Nynaeve]

The issue here is that you are alleging that I used it when I placed my self-vote, when I don't even know how to see who is online. It is fine if you are using it, but trying to use that logic on someone else's actions is where the problem is.

 

 

I don't see the problem. There isn't anything to 'know' about it. It's simply displayed. Even if I put it aside, self voting 9 minutes into deadline when you're at L-3 still doesn't give you you any points imo.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Clovdyx]

 

And on a general note, unlike Des, I'm not a fan of a no lynch at all. Especially on D1 where we have room for mistakes. Because we could have gained quite a bit of insight and have a little more ground to stand on, even if Pral didn't flip scum. But I guess that's a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

 

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

 

 

Bold is technically true, but considering "or later" contains the end of game, I'm not sure that's relevant.  We'll know everybody's alignment at that point.

[Nynaeve]

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

 

 

Basically I'm in disagreement with 4 out of 5 of your null to scummy reads (Leelou, Hallia, BGF and obviously me). And i'm null on the fifth (RTE). Not loving the reasons you provided for having those reads. I also don't like that you put dice on your null to town list. I don't feel like you're following a townie narrative. If you flipped scum YAY. I'd feel a bit reassured with my reads.  If you flipped town I'd have to revisit my reads and reread your content again to see if I'm mistaken, because I can't negate the fact that when you roll town, you're good at reading people.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

 

 

And on a general note, unlike Des, I'm not a fan of a no lynch at all. Especially on D1 where we have room for mistakes. Because we could have gained quite a bit of insight and have a little more ground to stand on, even if Pral didn't flip scum. But I guess that's a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

 

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

 

 

Bold is technically true, but considering "or later" contains the end of game, I'm not sure that's relevant.  We'll know everybody's alignment at that point.

 

 

I didn't get that when Des said it and I don't get it when he says it. So basically, I don't get it.

 

 

 

Nyn

[BFG]

 

 

 

And on a general note, unlike Des, I'm not a fan of a no lynch at all. Especially on D1 where we have room for mistakes. Because we could have gained quite a bit of insight and have a little more ground to stand on, even if Pral didn't flip scum. But I guess that's a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

 

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

 

 

Bold is technically true, but considering "or later" contains the end of game, I'm not sure that's relevant.  We'll know everybody's alignment at that point.

 

 

I didn't get that when Des said it and I don't get it when he says it. So basically, I don't get it.

 

 

 

Nyn

 

I think they mean that at some stage Pral could be lynched/NK which means that we'd have the information on his flip then to analyse today's voting etc. Cory's pointing out that we also get it at the end of the game when it's too late.

[Clovdyx]

 

So, what would be your reads if a) I flipped scum b) I flipped town

As Des mentioned, my alignment would be figured out sooner or later. In which case, it would be interesting to see where you stand.

 

 

Basically I'm in disagreement with 4 out of 5 of your null to scummy reads (Leelou, Hallia, BGF and obviously me). And i'm null on the fifth (RTE). Not loving the reasons you provided for having those reads. I also don't like that you put dice on your null to town list. I don't feel like you're following a townie narrative. If you flipped scum YAY. I'd feel a bit reassured with my reads.  If you flipped town I'd have to revisit my reads and reread your content again to see if I'm mistaken, because I can't negate the fact that when you roll town, you're good at reading people.

 

 

 

Nyn

 

 

Have you played with Pral as scum before?

[Clovdyx]

 

I think they mean that at some stage Pral could be lynched/NK which means that we'd have the information on his flip then to analyse today's voting etc. Cory's pointing out that we also get it at the end of the game when it's too late.

 

 

[Andrej]

Okay - probably gonna have to break these walls up. Just read through the past ~20 pages from where I posted Friday night through EOD. Basically the end conclusion is that I still think Hallia is scum. Don't like how several people all voiced willingness to vote for her and yet went elsewhere - doesn't look good especially with how the wagons built around her rather quickly when she started as a pretty viable lynch before lolEOD happened wagonomics.

 

Gonna spoiler each of these (gonna be several posts) to keep the thread readable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something I forgot to mention-

 

Cory, I don't know how you expect us to receive that Arthur Dent claim, along with you saying you'll pretty much never role claim. I mean... wth dude? Obv you'd know that claiming a major character as town will likely make mafia wanna NK you anyways in the chance that you are roled, and fake claiming a major character would just be dumdum as town. So I don't follow at all why'd youd character claim like that so quickly, yet act adamant about not role-claiming, when the role-claim would likely get attention off you from townies quicker than a character claim (any game where character claims are allowed I expect the mod to hand out fake claims, so in other words I completely disregard any character claims I see).

 

I'm kinda worried that Clov might have made an excellent point, about how you character claimed quickly in the WWE game but didn't role claim (when you we're scum)

 

I dislike this argument for one major reason:

 

In WWE I character claimed Day 3 with a comparative investigator result on me, was basically being lynched and was trying to weasel out of it in any way I could.

 

Let's say I'm Mafia this game and Arthur Dent is one of our supplied fakeclaims. How much of a selfish prick do I have to be to draw a huge amount of attention to myself by blowing up @ you, then going to my Mafia QT and taking our "great" fakeclaim away from the rest of my team because I couldn't defuse the pressure myself?

There are basically two reasons I ever claim A) I'm Mafia and about to get lynched and am trying to buy time / lead the lynch away from me B) I'm so frustrated with someone I want to show them how wrong they are

 

That's basically it

 

Bold: That's wifom and you know it. For all I know you could be scum and have an important role, or thought you needed to stay alive longer, so figured you'd take the golden fake claim.

 

Italics: Okay well you get that that's a ridiculous reason to claim, right? Claiming just to show someone "how wrong they are" is incredibly immature and antitown as well. As town, you should only claim when it help's further the town's interests. Claiming for such a petty reason is not helpful in any way.

 

I have to agree with Despo here. It's also somewhat of an objective argument to make, Cory could be genuine with his argument so I wouldn't necessarily say it makes Despo more townie, but I agree with the premise.

 

Now that we have it, [v]RTE[/v] too.

 

I don't remember what this was in regards to. I know you had him on your scum list, but what post of his prompted your vote placement here?

 

Lol, are you even reading the thread? Or my posts? Seriously actually. Especially since your read of me is based on my posts being 'off'.

I've highlighted the relevant part for you in the spoiler below. I've also repeated the quote several times in my conversation with Des if you read my actual posts. So since you've read my posts to think that they're 'off' how have you missed this conversation? He's also not reading Des's posts to have missed both the initial comment and the follow up conversation with me.

Tommy read Clov wrong in that game, so his meta read on Clov is off, based on that one game. I have no problem with you referencing a game in which you played together as evidence, but I don't understand how using Tommy's meta is

This looks a lot like sheeping somebody else read (Des on me) without actually doing any work, specifically Pral says that my posts are off and lacking the detail he'd expect. Since he's missed point I've made repeatedly, even before his initial read, it looks to me like he's not actually reading the thread and making his reads based on other peoples opinions. This isn't a TownPral.

[v]Pral[/v]
 
 Ok, this is the Clov/Des thing I've been trying to explain, in all it's gory detail. Some quotes are going to be a bit repetitive I'm afraid, since I've quoted them a few times to try and make my point.

 

Reading your WoTs I don't really think they are pointing at much - besides minor points. The biggest thing that I remember you pushing is that Despo voted someone for doing something similar that he did. So what? A lot of the others ones have been mostly you sheeping other comments, pointing out things sort of after the fact that have already been stated on thread. This is probably because of your schedule, so I can't fault you too much there, but generally not a ton of original content. In other words, calling them 'off' isn't inaccurate imo. After all, as many have commented on, part of your meta is to analyze your WoTs and see if you are genuinely digging or just sort of filling them with fluff.

 

 

The deadline will not be extended. There is 6.5h left. Enjoy.

!!!!!!

Wowzers. Didn't realize it was that close.

@.@

We need to find a consensus scum read fast- people juststart peppering out your top three. If there's some1 tthat enough people find scummy, we might be best served going there. I think BFG was on a lot of people's radars....

My top three choices for today are Cory, Thane, or BFG. In that order.

 

What happened to Hallia?

 

Cory always say that you should show that you are town right away. But I don´t see him showing that he is town. His emo outburst was strange. Des had done nothing that was worth triggering that. Then he character claimed out of the blue. Is it townie to character claim one of the main characters without any preassure? I would say no. Then he takes a lot of time telling us that him being emotional is more common when he is town. I won´t read through other games to check that and everyone knows that you can use your meta as a shield anyway. Now it looks like he is trying to do some damage control. 

 

[unvote]

 

[v] Cory [/v]

 

Pretty solid post from Tina here. I'm beginning to have my reservations on Cory as well.

 

Fwiw, while I found RTE kinda scummy, and mebbe faking a PR to inflate post count like Leelou said, but after realizing every post was 42 words or less pretty much started swaying me back to null. While PR's aren't strictly alignment indicative, I kinda doubt he'd fake a PR that specific as scum- would be ingenious if he did, but that kind of move doesn't really seem like RTE. While he might try a gimmick as scum, one that required that much commitment wouldn't seem likely.

So then there's the wifom if a mod would give a scummer a PR, making them stand out a bit, or not. That's obviously gaming the mod however, so meh. Point is, imo it's at least slightly more likely that RTE is town cause of the 42 PR.

 

I agree on the point that I don't think RTE would fake his OWN PR, but I'm not comfortable with even giving him a slight town lean because of it. I'm gaming the mod here - but CS is enough of a troll to assign scum a PR imo, I also don't read him as very townie in this game either. Some of his votes look pretty weak/opportunistic to me.

 

Des - is BFG still on your scum list? 

 

As you say, the 42 pr is just wifom. Doesn´t point to either alignment. 

 

Another good point from Tina. I feel putting her closer to the top of my town list at this point.

 

Early game AJ
 

I don't think Verb's tone is really off.
 
Leelou/Tina votes interest me, so does Tina with her quotes.
 
I noticed the same Pral post you quoted with the   face, seemed sort of out of sync.
 
Cory looks good. Biggest schtick claim made me LOL
 
BFG seems pretty relaxed. I've completely failed reading her the last few games we've been in together though, so not putting a ton of value in that at first glance.
 
Interested to hear what you gotta say about FishDyx though.

AJs thoughts which seem fine considering where we are in the game. Note that I'm a null here.
 

 

</3

Too little, too late
Don't worry you're still my mate

And lol, I'm bad at being mafia
Being Town makes me so much happier

 
You being town makes me happier too 
 
The last 2 times we've played you were mafia and I was staunchly against your lynch   

 
I joke about it, AJ agrees that I'm town, despite earlier having me as null. I question him.
 

 

 

</3

Too little, too late
Don't worry you're still my mate

And lol, I'm bad at being mafia
Being Town makes me so much happier

You being town makes me happier too 

The last 2 times we've played you were mafia and I was staunchly against your lynch   

So easy to convince by dear bro?
By moon the green stuff will grow

 
This response seems strange. He'd prefer me to be Town, but he wasn't reading me as town earlier. Just seems off.
 

Conflict of interest I guess, BFG. I would prefer you be town so perhaps that affects how I read you.

Also Cory knows I'm only kidding. These GOAT nips don't lie 

 
Early game, so has a low value but AJ seems to know that I'm Town early on.

 

Really not liking the spin you're putting on me here.

 

I - in no way, shape, or form - agreed with you being Town. You made what I read as a general comment about you being happier when you roll town and I agreed in a similar sense as I think you are a good townie. That has nothing to do with this game or what your alignment may be in this instance. I also didn't consider the question you posed afterward a very serious one considering it was in verse. I think the answer is kind of obvious, as you should know from past games, that I have often read you wrongly and gone to the point of defending you in games where you were mafia and me town. Mass Effect and the Once About a Time games are the two most recent examples - which my response to the versed question reflects. I would you prefer you being town, as we are friends, so that likely colors the way I read you in games. Pretty straightforward imo.

 

 

Early game, so has a low value but AJ seems to know that I'm Town early on.

 

I agree. Him saying "You being town makes me happier too" pings.

 

Nyn

 

This was the nudgy comment that I talked about earlier. I think the spin from BFG is pretty misguided, if not scummy, but her +1'ing the post looks worse imo.

 

 

I'd be up for a Pral lynch. He's not making sense like he did in Real Genius and was being PralGOAT. He keeps clearing Clov over his alleged meta. I explained why he's wrong there. I don't like his explanations for his reads or how he's basing most of his read of other people on the premise that dice is a townie.

 
Except I used the exact same strategy in the Real Genius game in finding scum. I assumed Amega was not scum and caught the scum based on how they voted Amega. I find it a pretty good strategy on D1 and usually works. Of course, there is always the possibility that my assumption is wrong. In that case, it will be apparent in the later days and reads can be adjusted.

 

I work similarly to how Pral is explaining here. How else are you supposed to evaluate players if not by seeing how they interact with others and using your view of them to make comparisons? Pral states that his is reading Dice as town, and analyzing those voting him from this perspective. How is that bad? And I don't really want to hear the answer that his read on Dice could be wrong - obviously that is a possibility - but eventually a player has to run with his reads in order to progress in the game. Pral also comments here about how if his assumption is wrong that he will adjust later as more information is revealed. Overall this posts reads like it's coming from a villagery place.

 

 

@nyn

Yeah, I was doing it on D1 with Amega. I had Cory and Len as scum D1 using the same. After D1, I had more information which just reinforced my reads.

Cory even called it out specifically on D1 just like you are doing it now :)

 

I've only started seeing you really pull your weight in Genius mafia after Tommy and I were out, aka as of D2 and onwards. I don't remember what Cory called you out on, but I'm neither Cory nor do I play like he does. Trying to imply that I'm scum because I'm acting like Cory did when he was scum is amusing at best.

 

I feel like whenever dice opens his mouth he makes himself look even worse. And the fact that you're using the votes on him as a main reason for fosing people bothers me. I want to see more than just that. Because your house of cards is looking very shaky right now.

 

Nyn

 

In the first bold you're misrepresenting his words - sort of like you've done with other players. Either you are failing to recognize the conclusion or just intentionally arguing something else. He wasn't comparing your play to Cory, he's saying that the argument you are using against him is one that mafia can argue, and has argued against him in the past.

 

Can you explain more on Dice? Was it him saying he was voting for consolidation as a reason? What about everyone else who were hopping from wagon to wagon at EOD? Do all their reasons check out? You seem to be ignoring quite a number of people here and focusing on a specific few - me no likey.

 

 

 

[Andrej]

Part 2

 

 

 

 

(Ok, Real Talk: I had about the worst day/night you can imagine due to a co-workers incompetance forcing me to work at 12 hour caregiving shift combined with nanny work.  I feel better today, but I wasn't going to tackle this because with all the high tension in thread)

 

Pral: You said my vote on Mish was sheeping? How's that possible when there were only two of us on her?  I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

Dice:  I buy the claim for now, especially with how fast his train was going up at the time.

 

So between the two left we have a train of Cory/Lazy.  I don't recall much of Lazy's posting, but from reading back, Cory seems to have reigned in the anger some, and is looking more townish.  So for now.

 

Vote: Lazy

 

Also, apparently I'm a thing as well.  I'm Vanilla Town, so that'd kind of be a waste.

 

The statement to Pral is a bad one. You being the second person on the wagon doesn't absolve you of sheeping. Again, like I said earlier, looking at your reasoning for voting Mish it comes across as a way to join a wagon early that had the potential of picking up steam. You haven't really addressed the issue at hand here, at least the original one, in telling how your viewed Mish's reaction/words to be scummy.

 

You also absolve yourself of your responsibility to voting Lazy. "I don't remember anything from him this game so I wouldn't be able to decide if he's scummy or not, so I'll just vote there over Cory."

 

HEY NYN - THIS LOOKS LIKE A CONSOLIDATION VOTE IN OTHER WORDS. DOES THIS MAKE HALLIA SCUMMY?

 

At some point I think we need to stop ignoring BFG's case on Pral. I have them both as scum reads but she's making solid points and evidently I must be wrong about one of them because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. 

 

Yeah - not really digging your thought process here. You're leaving out a few options, such as them being scum/scum although I will concede I also don't think that's likely here. Just because one is town doesn't mean the other is automatically scum though. Townies case other townies wrongfully all the time - I don't like how you seem to have left this option out and are basically setting up one or the other as mafia.

 

Well, money meet mouth. Let's see what we see.

 

[v] Pral [/v] 

 

I'll be around at deadline in case but I prefer a Pral lynch to either Cory or Lazy at this point. 

 

Quote: “Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.”  Douglas Adams

 

I need to check back on this one. I don't remember your read on Pral prior to this vote - something to keep in mind though.

 

@Clov  Doesn't it seem odd to you that most of Pral's content in regards to his null to scum lean reads are based on dice being a townie?

 

Nyn

 

Again - what about this is odd? Obviously the conclusion could be wrong, but him making an assumption one player player as far as their alignment goes and evaluating others based on this read and their interactions with said read looks like a pretty townie way to analyze imo.

 

 

CFD all aboaarrrrrrrd?

Why are you hedging and who do you want a CFD on?

 

 

I actually like how BFG calls out Hallia here.

 

Unvote

 

Vote Pral

 

I hedge nothing! MUAHAHAA!

 

Jokey response to what should be a serious matter - again, Hallia is basically just throwing her vote onto whatever wagon that seems to be heading for a lynch. I don't remember anything from her at this point to say how she was viewing Pral, she just seems to be voting consensus reads from others, adding momentum to EOD wagons.

 

Scummy, scummy, scummy.

 

HEY NYN - THIS LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER CONSOLIDATION VOTE. SCUMMY, OR IS IT JUST DICE WHEN HE DOES IT?

 

lynching me would be really, really, really, really dumb.

 

 

 

lynching me would be really, really, really, really dumb.

 

Unvote.

 

Members of the mafia typically point out how good their lynch is.

 

[v]Cory[/v]

 

Whatever. I tried pretty hard and was super and I don't know if the narrative on me is scum-led or a bunch of idiots, but I've lost my clout for this game anyway and I'm not really motivated.

 

Let's just get it over with, gl 

 

Cory - wtf bro? Think of this from someone's perspective outside of yours. First you say lynching you would be dumb - but then a few minutes later you SELF VOTE?

 

fwiw i still think Hallia has the highest odds of being Mafia

 

I pointed out the post that kept me up awhile ago, her early townread on me seemed lazy and arbitrary

 

Your vote here might've gone a long way yesterday.

 

 

So AJ, Nyn, me, Thane, and Des are your top town suspects.  Tina has dropped from that category.  Is that correct?

 

She had a vote on Dice that seemed opportunistic and for the most part she's been invisible after doing her Marvin thing Day 1 and I really wouldn't expect her to vote me there as town

 

I could very well have been wrong about her

 

To be fair, as I commented earlier, her vote did come kind of late on Dice but earlier she had mentioned wanting to vote either him or Mish at the time. I found this fairly consistent.

 

I would happily CFD Hallia

 

Why didn't this happen?

 

Like - I'm asking everyone that.

 

 

Heh, as usual, scum take advantage that I am inactive on weekend and push the lynch. Anyway, it doesn't matter. This should only help the town clear out the scum in the game

FWIW, BFG is town. This post gave it away.
 

At some point I think we need to stop ignoring BFG's case on Pral. I have them both as scum reads but she's making solid points and evidently I must be wrong about one of them because it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Clearly, RTE is setting up both of us knowing that if I flip town, he can push the case against BFG. This should have lock scummed him down. So, is Hallia.

Leelou is also town, as she could have easily jumped on my train but didn't.

That's from me. You all figure out the others.

 

 

That's not a logical conclusion at all.  You're putting words into RTE's mouth IMO.

You do not have information that I have - namely my alignment. If you see it based on that, it becomes apparent.

 

That's not the issue at all.  You're insinuating that he's saying he can't be wrong about both of you - which he certainly could be.  You're turning his statement into "one must be scum", when it actually says "one must be town".  The case BFG is presenting towards you doesn't make any sense if you're teammates. 

 

On the other hand, there's no reason he can't be wrong in his read about her - making her town.  As she would have no way of knowing YOUR alignment, she (possibly erroneously) reads you as scum and cases you accordingly.  Going with the assumption that she's wrong about you, you are now town. 

 

Now, you are town.  She is town.  His reads are proven false, but his statement remains true - one of you WAS town.

 

TL;DR - One of you HAVING to be town doesn't prevent the other from being town, as well.  One of you being mafia DOES prevent the other from being mafia, too.

 

My thoughts on RTE's statement are more in line with Pral in this exchange. While I see what FishDyx is saying I think he's kind of oversimplifying it. I think it's pretty clear that RTE was inferring that one of them had to be scum because them both being scum/scum with how they are casing each other wouldn't make sense to him.

 

AJ, what's your take on Pray?

 

I think he's been pretty townie now that he's actually posting. He bugged me early on, but I can follow where he's coming from - I also think the points brought against him aren't very great either. BFG's big point is that he didn't comment on her thing which I don't consider very significant. Like, so what? It doesn't necessarily mean anything and it especially doesn't mean that he isn't reading her posts at all. Nobody has to comment on every little thing people mention - I don't see him not mentioning it as a sign he's scum. If the issue is that his read looks generic then perhaps she should ask for more clarification as to what reads 'off' about her instead of the conclusion she came to automatically.

 

Well, we're like 21 minutes to deadline. Lazy is prolly not gonna show to clarify anything or even reveal. And no one is budging from their votes. Awesome.

 

Unvote

 

Vote Pral.

 

Time to get off our ass and get a majority. I pointed out my issues with Pral and his flip will prolly give more info than Lazy at this point even if I'm wrong and he flips town. If Lazy doesn't start to play seriously the next day, my vote goes right back to him.

 

Nyn

 

 

 

 

TL;DR - One of you HAVING to be town doesn't prevent the other from being town, as well.  One of you being mafia DOES prevent the other from being mafia, too.

Not if you are looking at the timing and context of the vote. It isn't a simple thing of what he said.
Clearly, it is based on all the actions so far and when he said it and at what point the vote was mad etc.

 

I think you're grasping at straws.  There's not a single player who is going to look at him with any credibility if he immediately turned around and cased BFG following a townflip from you.  He'd essentially be saying "Her case was good enough for me to follow, but she was wrong, so we should lynch her."  Unless RTE is an absolute moron, I find it unlikely he'd try that move.

 

I wouldn't really expect any kind of push on anyone from RTE, that's mostly meta though. I think the point here is that it gives him a reason to vote either in later Days. "Well, I said earlier that one of Pral/BFG had to be scum, so since [whichever] flipped town, that must mean [the other] is mafia."

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Thank you for trying, Cory.

 

Smooth. In the crazy event that Pral is actually scum this game - nobody forget this.

 

Atm though, with my current reads, I would give you some fist for this.

 

No switches would help right now. We're too close to the deadlines and people are either being stubborn or not being around at all. Obviously scum is happy with us going to night with no lynch. GG scum.

 

Nyn

 

What makes you say that? It's just as important for scum to achieve lynches because it allows them to directly influence the thread progression as well as dwindle the town numbers. NKs alone aren't going to win the game for them. So you think both Lazy and Pral getting ran up over others - such as Cory/Hallia - and not getting lynched automatically makes them mafia? The majority of the same players were on both wagons. Does that make them all town?

 

I wonder why people have a town read on Cory. What is it in his play today that has looked townie? 

 

Des - what made you change your mind about Cory? You have gone after several people today but ended up voting Lazy. How come? I see the reason for why one would want to vote him but you cased others more than him. 

 

I have a better feeling about Leelou now. 

 

Another good looking post from Tina. I'm sort of sketched out about Despo atm too with how he acted during EOD. I also agree with her last point about Leelou - I feel relatively confident that she's town.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Have you played with Pral as scum before?

 

 

I don't think I have. The only time I remember playing with him was in Real Genius where he basically blew me away with how well he was reading people.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Pralaya]

Here is my analysis of yesterday
 

Final VC - Day 1

Verbal: 1 - Lazy
Cory: 2 - Tina, Dice
Hallia: 2 - AJ, Clov
Lazy: 1 - Des
Pralaya: 8 - BFG, RTE, Halley, Cory, Nyn, Leelou, Pray, Thane

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

Not voting: Verbal, Vos

So, this is quite easy from my perspective.Back to wagonomics, my favorite tool.

I don;t think the scum would have missed the lynch yesterday as they could have got a town down quite easily. The reason I wasn't lynched yesterday was because
1. All the scum were already on the train
2. Some scum did not show up within the deadline
3. Someone is deep-scumming it

I had a discussion with Nyn yesterday and after some thought, I am thinking point 2 as the most probable option. POint 1 and point 3 are possible and would be thought of based on how risky or not risky my lynch was. But, I am going ahead with what I think was most probable to have happened.

I also don't think it was a town-driven train, especially given the timing. Because of it, I am suspecting at least 3 scum in my train.

So, what I am thinking is 3 scum in my train and 1 scum who no-showed.

The interesting thing is that all my 5 scum reads early D1 were in the train, which means I was more or less hit the jackpot with my D1 reads again.

I have already analysed my train yesterday in this post. Clov disagreed but I have seen RTE play and this game, I am not only suspicious of him in my train but also the way he voted Dice.

So basically, I got a town read of BFG and Leelou and scum lock of RTE and Hallia.

That would mean one of Cory/Nyn/Thane as the remaining scum. Now, each of them had a late switch to my train, which according to me is a very common tactic scum uses to hide. This again reinforces my assumption that there are 3 scum in the train. Who is scum among this will be apparent as the game goes further.

The now shows would be AJ, Verbal, Vos, Tina, Lazy. Not Dice because he did come in and voted elsewhere before mentioning that he won't be around for deadline. My money is on Lazy here.

[Pralaya]

Basically I'm in disagreement with 4 out of 5 of your null to scummy reads (Leelou, Hallia, BGF and obviously me). And i'm null on the fifth (RTE). Not loving the reasons you provided for having those reads. I also don't like that you put dice on your null to town list. I don't feel like you're following a townie narrative. If you flipped scum YAY. I'd feel a bit reassured with my reads.  If you flipped town I'd have to revisit my reads and reread your content again to see if I'm mistaken, because I can't negate the fact that when you roll town, you're good at reading people.

 

Clearly you missed how my reads have evolved over the course of the day. 

[Hallia]

AJ didn't you just do this very same thing to me, and I was town....again?

 

 

I think you're not very good at reading me. o.o