[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Yates]

 

Jotting them in our hydra qt, silly Yates. We work together on all things

 

Sometimes I don't think people get we are a hydra.

 

Sometimes people don't get vocabulary jokes.

 

"Jot - To write down briefly or hastily."

[Sedai]

All that was in response to cloud

[Red2111]

had a Bubba & Me day yestruday.  have about 30 pages to catch up, will try to do so inbetween work.

[Hallia]

 

Yeah yeah

[Sedai]

@yates I have you in the town pile. I'm not really pushing that theory. Just a play I thought of. Since it's so out there. Also your discounting the doctor. If there is one. Not sure how likely with a BG claim but in a game this large with multiple kills i feel for sure there is one. The doctor could protect you so you could in theory make it to endgamr

[Tommyrod]

1. That's a gross statement and you know it. He did something in his scum meta. He admitted it this game when I pointed it out.

 

2. Not in his initial post. I found that scummy and said so.

 

3. His early game felt a lot like his recent games. I never said I found him scummy now. Just most players. I never included my name on that. I agree however he is in the null pile now for me.

 

4. Because I had a townie vibe on him. His play seemed genuine.

 

5. Early game when I said that. Was my honest opinion. There wasn't a lot of game play at the time and best I had to go on. Your early posts were very townie.

 

6. Their interplay was the linkage I just pointed it out. As it read to me.

 

7. No I understood the goat thing. I just found it weird that tommy kept repeating it. Not that he was a goat. Just the whole scenario wrapped around it.

 

8. You being mafia, and a deep wolf. Also same for Yates.

 

9. I missed their self vote.

#7 -- ?

[Zanube]

I am extremely sorry that I have not posted anything as my computer crashed today and I also was busy the past few days. My apologies.

Zanube - extremely absent. She really needs to step it up for me to put her anywhere near my town pile, she is pretty high close to scum for me. Her last min vote on MishTress seemed very much like she was told to come on and vote and to pick anything to make it seem like it wasn't just a bandwagon vote. It was weird that she picked a post from Tress that she agreed with and then voted them. 

I did not vote MishTress as a bandwagon vote. In Tress's reads on Mish's posts, I agreed with her reads on Mish's first three posts. I didn't agree with on her reads about Mish's other posts and also about Despo .Mish also picking on X's introductory post seemed scummy. It seemed scummy to me and that is why I voted her. I didn't vote her as a band wagon vote. 

[Sedai]

@tommy just seemed a lot to do about absolutely nothing.

[Tommyrod]

@tommy just seemed a lot to do about absolutely nothing.

And that reflects negatively on me or on Red? If the latter I agree. Progression from obvious joke vote to super srs vote to never talking about me or engaging me again was one of the dirtiest things ITT.

 

Can I vote you? Would that be bad?

[Kathleen]

Took me all of lunch but I'm caught up again.

 

I'm happy with the current NyanCat vote on Mynd. I found his reasoning just as far fetched as my other head, and his responses (or lack there of) since really haven't done much to make him look any better in my eyes. It seems like he's hiding and hoping the heat on him will fade.

 

I am also curious about Dawn, Halleeloujah, and Verbalina, so I will be talking to my other head and looking back at their posts to get a better read on them, but I'm happy with the Mynd vote for now.

 

And now I'm late to my next class. 

[Lenlo]

 

Pretty sure I unvote anbd voted Red but 

 

##unvote Mish vote Red

 

Gross. Mish hasn't revealed yet, but this remains Gross.

 

Lenlo's three FOSes for Day 1 were Verb, me and Dawn

 

SHRUG

Not true at all. They were Mish, Dawn and Red. I was actually null on Verb and leaning town on you. I was actually against Red and all for her lynch the entire day.

 

 

 

Lenlo - I love that you are funny, but I want to see more game content from you. Give me your reads. Please. 

 

See my reads were actually posted not to long ago RL time, yet page wise they are not halfway back into the thread cause people post SO FREAKING MUCH.

 

scum

Dawn

Red

 

null to scum

Dice

MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

Jack

Zanube

 

null

Krak

Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

 

null to town

Crayjay (Cory/Andrej)

Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

Yates

X

Mynd

 

town

Tommy

[Tommyrod]

I am extremely sorry that I have not posted anything as my computer crashed today and I also was busy the past few days. My apologies.

 

Zanube - extremely absent. She really needs to step it up for me to put her anywhere near my town pile, she is pretty high close to scum for me. Her last min vote on MishTress seemed very much like she was told to come on and vote and to pick anything to make it seem like it wasn't just a bandwagon vote. It was weird that she picked a post from Tress that she agreed with and then voted them.

I did not vote MishTress as a bandwagon vote. In Tress's reads on Mish's posts, I agreed with her reads on Mish's first three posts. I didn't agree with on her reads about Mish's other posts and also about Despo .Mish also picking on X's introductory post seemed scummy. It seemed scummy to me and that is why I voted her. I didn't vote her as a band wagon vote.

Mish and Tress are the same hydra.

[Andrej]

Okay peeps, I'm here for a bit.

 

Somebody get @ me

[Verbal32]

had a Bubba & Me day yestruday.  have about 30 pages to catch up, will try to do so inbetween work.

 

I know my hydra head disagrees, but my read has changed on you - I was scum at first, and now I'm leaning town.  I've played enough with you (and argued much of that) to have a good feeling of when you're sincere.

 

The first rash of posts seemed like a lot of defensive posting and FOSing, but no actual attacks from you.  That is what really made me suspicious.  I'm townreading you now.

[Red2111]

up to page 84.  coulda rolled with a Nol lynch, surprised to see he flipped town.  not liking the Jailer on Desbat's corner; 99.9% sure he was town as i dont think the scum would gain much from killing their own with Desbat.  shame to loose such an asset

 

 

 

Instead i decided to focus on what was happening on the sides. Tommy and cory's attack on Dawn who is obviously lost in this game isn't an attempt to find scum. They want an easy lynch. They want to show that they are participating but i've seen little to show they actually want to solve the puzzle. No matter how much they say they have it figured out.. blah blah blah team alliance. Instead they still bring dawn's so called scumminess up and get in pointless fights with red throughout the thread. I've seen nothing to change my mind yet. 

 

 

 

 

^ ditto on this

 

 

Are people going to start telling me to leave the forum?

Just when I thought I was making any sort of headway.

Cool.

 

o.0  no, where did you get that from?

 

 

 

 

 

1. Mistress (Mish/Tress) - If it was just Mish, I'd say straight up flustered. With Tress if feels like damage control and not fully liking how in her quick recap that she tied a few people to how Desbat flips. I feel like they've reigned in a bit and are trying to tighten up their game. Mish - how do you feel about X now? Townish with a hint of scum

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des) - I've liked Wombat's play so far. I'd like to see some more from Des though. Most memorable posts are him talking about dreams. 

3. Nolbat - He seems to be trying, I wouldn't say he's giving his all yet, but I wouldn't call him scum either. Lazyish townie. 
4. Krak - Where you at? 3 posts? Not cool, man. Not cool. 
5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - Undecided. Cloud is #scumday1nomatterwhat and Amega isn't the strongest of players. So far Cloud hasn't done anything uber scummy to get a vote from me. null 
6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - posting has been strong from both Cory and AJ, leaning town on them 
7. Lenlo - Mostly spammy, null. I'd like to see some comments on the events in the game. I know you can do it. 
8. X - I didn't see his op the way Mish did. I think he responded alright to Mish and Tress. I'd like to see some commentary from him on Red
9. Dawn - seems a bit jumpy, not sure if it's her newness still or if she doesn't want the attention on her. Null to slight scum 
10. Jack - just got to the party. Welcome
11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina) - Verbal seems on par for his level of posting. Tina could be a bit more inquisitive, but so far she hasn't set off my scum radar yet. Null
13. Dice - Barely active, but has been commenting on game play. Slight town lean, will change to a scum lean if he's not more active though
14. Zanube - Have you seriously only made 2 posts?!? 1 to say hi and 1 to comment on dreaming? 
15. Red - I'm still having a hard time with your claiming as early as you did, especially after the ration of crap you gave Yates for his claim. We weren't near deadline and you were just at half the vote required for a lynch. Are you still voting Tommy over the Goat thing? Leaning jumpy scum. Also - I won't read skittle puke or quotes within quotes, so I probably won't read half your posts. 
16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat) - Meow. Okay, Nyn so far seems genuine in her posting. Townish lean on her
17. Mynd - Doing his beating the grass thing. Hi Mynd. So you thought Red claimed a big gun for a bit? Yeah unfortunately not. How do you feel about her super early claim? Why fear the hydras? 
18. Tommy - I don't really see where Tommy is "squirming" like Red seems to think he is. His posts are coming off with a townie vibe. Town lean
19. Yates - opened with a claim of VT, slight distraction but haven't seen any erratic behavior from him. Null 

 

unvote, vote Red

 

Bold are some peeps I've had my eye on lately. Leelou gives Nol a town lean, even tho she fencesits, null on Megaloud even tho she fencesits, null on Lenlo, but cheers him on a bit as well (as opposed to questioning Lenlo or something to flesh out the read moar), slight scum lean on Dawn, and doesn't even really give a read on Mynd, but questions him instead.

 

Looks significant imo.

 

Plus, look at the italics, her read on Red. She ends up voting Red, but says she won't be reading most of her posts. That's like... just major sketchballs isn't it? I could see her saying she won't be reading Red's posts because she's LOCK SCUM to her, but Leelou doesn't even seem that confident in her read on Red. "I'm still having a hard time"..."leaning jumpy scum" are all most soft indicators of scumminess for her, not strong ones. And yet... Leelou says she won't be reading most of Red's posts. Indicating she isn't interested in reaffirming her read on her at all.

 

Did Leelou leave her vote parked on Red for a while after this?

 

 

^ this, espeically the bit about me.

 

 

For both my sanity, because I just got to this post by red, and for amega (who is misled):

 

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - pinged for how defensive they got over a vote on Tom, and how hard they worked to pressure me to move my vote.  crappy voting reason aside, they started this push before i said why i was keeping my vote there.  this reaction caused me to stay put (that and i wont have my vote bullied off a person just because he's their friend and i dont like to vote hop a lot when the game actually starts).  Cory did not as far as casing me, just tried to insult me off his friends wagon.  AJ took lead on applying the direct pressure.  at first his casing was solid and possibly townish ... but then he started trying to set the lynch up on me and trap me so that no matter how i moved he could continue a case on me.  he also tried to drag back up the distraction convo of discussing what tom meant by Goat. i disliked this and decided to get obstinate at him.  he then tried to spilt his focus at one point by starting up with you (Yates) regaurding your claim.  possibly to continue the push against you after i flip, or possibly becuase he saw i made a good point (though i doubt the latter as he didn't chime in wiht Mynd when he saw Mynd made a good point on Mish)

 

------

 

I have had to explain this several times over the past few games and I felt like at times I was able to get through to certain people, so I guess I mineswell keep trying.

If you have ever believed that I have defended someone because they are my friend, you are sorely mistaken. I hold absolutely NO outside allegiances.

If you have ever believed that I have cleared someone as town or believe someone is more likely to be town because they are my friend, you are sorely mistaken.

 

The level to which I have been confronted and accused is absurd, and most people who actually bother to try and understand my thought process usually come around to the correct conclusion.

I play Mafia a certain way - I analyze thought process primarily and see if each player has a sensible narrative akin to the way they think, which can be difficult with a group of heteroclitic thinkers - but that's Mafia, and it's a game I enjoy playing.

 

There are certain players who I know have a very similar thought process to mine - Tommy and Des are good examples - and the best way for me to determine their alignment is to see if they see the things I see in the thread. The more naturally they come to the conclusions I come to, the easier it is to believe they are seeing the game through the same lens as I.
 

I give no free passes. If you are town, I want to identify you as town as soon as possible because that's one less Mafia suspect. Towns that have a solid foundation succeed a great deal more often than scattered towns with rogue agendas.

Red, if you think I was insulting you and not handling you as a suspect, I am sorry that you do not see the game the way I do. I have not attempted nor would like to attempt offending anyone in this game - I recognize about all else it is a game. I am trying to win the most effective way I've learned how.

 

With that said, being obstinate because you don't feel like you are being "treated fairly" is going to do little but harm your own alignment. Work with the people you most easily recognize as having the same goals as you.

 

Amega I am not going to respond to your FOS because it is not grounded in reality. You hyperfocus on my casing of Dawn, which I explained very thoroughly several times over and still maintain. Moreso, it's a fraction of what I have done in this game, and incredibly snipy. I'll have more for you when my reread is over, but at this point I'm trudging thanks to the unnecessary bog of much of this game's logic.

 

Okay, back to reading.

 

this can easily get into distraction discussion territory, so i'm only gonna address this once. 

 

i was not taking your game play as anythign other than game play, if you're interpreting my responses as such, then thats you're interpretation.  you play with a thick skin, i was giving back what i was getting.

 

to the bold - you took off the kiddy gloves with me with snarkiness, i took off my kiddy gloves with you and played back.  fyi - GFY used to be rule #14 in games; its not used in the literal sense of the meaning or even in the serious sense of the meaning.   to me, anything said in Mafia is kept in Mafia.

 

take what Yates is saying now about me, instead of casing me hes tryign to insight me to argue with him by flinging insults at my intellegence and going all argo at me not being lynched.  i see this as a tactic, not him actually trying to berate me or be mean to me.

 

 

 

 

was just coming back to say that was a stuff up lol. Im still catching up, read something cory said about my vote still being on and realized i never voted.  totally forgot it was night lol

 

 

 

 

....ooops???  

 

dide, it said Night right in the title.  not buying this at all.  scummy skimmer

[Verbal32]

Okay peeps, I'm here for a bit.

 

Somebody get @ me

 

Did Cory type that for you?

[Sedai]

 

@tommy just seemed a lot to do about absolutely nothing.

And that reflects negatively on me or on Red? If the latter I agree. Progression from obvious joke vote to super srs vote to never talking about me or engaging me again was one of the dirtiest things ITT.

 

Can I vote you? Would that be bad?

You can vote me

 

Would it be bad? Yes. You'd be the fourth vote on a frivolous train with trumped up votes and even votes without reason.

 

Pull out your infamous skills and lets busy this open.

 

Tommy, what do you think of cloud's defense of krak?

[Cory Caboose]

 

Mish is dead-on here. Cloud has a particularly terrible EOD where he refuses to vote Mish when votes start coming in.

 

Pot meet kettle:

 

 

You wanted to lynch Red on a day where it became increasingly obvious we had town-town wagons.

[Andrej]

 

Okay peeps, I'm here for a bit.

 

Somebody get @ me

 

Did Cory type that for you?

 

Lol yes. I just edited the format so it didn't look like QT font. I would hate Mynd to jump on that.

[Andrej]

MQ incoming.

 

Think Cloud is scum.

 

Jack is probtown.

 

Yates is still looking awesome.

 

Feeling better about Tina/Verb after their posting from yesterday and today.

[Andrej]

Dawn is defscum, btw.

[Cory Caboose]

Dawn is defscum, btw.

 

Other AJ nods.

[Andrej]

Cloud - What was even the point of the post to Cory?

 

I feel like Mynd overextended a bit (he likes to be out there and lead as scum), but then bumped up against folks like Cory & Tom, and now has shrunk back and isn't playing out in front anymore.

 

I also want to reread Jack a bit.

 

Interesting point. There are several things that are bothering me about Mynd, I'll get into that in a bit. I'm pretty on the fence with him but think lynching/vigging him would still be the best option just to eliminate all the WIFOM.

 

Feeling better about Verbalina now that they're more active.

 

 

##Unvote. Vote Jack_D

 

The Day is still young.

 

This vote was pretty lame. I also wasn't very impressed with your Mynd vote earlier. Neither of them read very genuine to me.

 

##Vote Jack.

 

He's my top scum read. 

 

lol

 

 

Jack_D... Him linking Red and AJ together remains one of the scummiest and non-logical things that I have seen this game. His catch-up posts , unlike the ones from Krak and Lenlo, seems fabricated to me and a lot of his reads on people are based on nonsensical things. He has been pushing for Mistress lynch a lot who flipped town and afterwards he called Mynd scum because he said they were town after their VT claim. I don't like this reasoning at all because it should have been obvious to anyone who payed attention that they were town near the end of Day 1 and I was pretty vocal about it as well and yet he hasn't said anything about me. I think he and Mynd are scumbuddies and he has realized that he could better start bussing him ASAP because he was bound to go down sooner or later.

This is all so very wrong

1. It was linking. But only if one was scum. AJ's arguments felt manufactured and it's in his meta to go after scum mates early. He's done it in 2 recent games and when I pointed it out, he also agreed that my suspicions were grounded.

2. Of course Krak (whom most have on their scum list) and Lenlo (who most are suspicious of) seems very genuine and I don't. What doesn't feel right about that catch up? Or are you trying to push Tommy's earlier stuff to get a train started?

3. I was going to say something last night as part of my conspiracy theory lol. ^.^

4. Lolwut how was it over obvious about Mish and tress? Was it their townie super role claim of vanilla? Was it the self vote that I missed on catch up? Was it Mish saying that she's played scummy but tress is obv town so that makes them both town? No their play was way less then obvtown

 

Jack's meta assessment of me is valid. He of anyone would know this because he was my scumbud in the Godzilla game where I went at him D1 to distance. I also did something similar with Des in the Clash of Ancients game. So yeah, it fits my meta. The linkage was plausible in this situation just extremely premature without a flip on either me or Red at the time to back up the suspicion.

 

 

 

##unvote
##vote Mistress
 
 
Listen, no matter how you look at it, we are the best lynch today. A vanilla is better to loose than a potential PR. If Red is mafia, you'll find out. There are guanrateed to be some investigative roles, wich none has brought up as an option for finding her out. Sooner or later someone will check her. Mostly everyone in the game has commented on Tress and me. Cloud, Des, Nol has all posted recently, you guys move over to Mistress and we'll be the leading train and even if it isn't majority, with Darthe's rules we'll be the lynch. It's the logical way to go.

I'm not going to move my vote to the most obvious townie in the entire game.

 

I found this sort of interesting when I look back and think of how you were very sure Mish was scum at the beginning of D1 since she was 'changing her story' to fit her defense. Remember that?

 

 

 

I think Yates claiming was a brilliant move thus setting up a way to rid the thread of the red Alignment dilemma. Effectively cementing two town players, in my eyes, to the ground. And the Wifom he is causing the mafia at this point will probably be a factor.

Buddying the vig will get you nowhere, bub. Besides, I know it was brilliant. I'm Yates.

Yates - I'm 99.9% sure he is town. He's the most town layer in the game.

Buddying the vig will get you nowhere, kid. Besides, of course I'm the towniest layer in the game. I'm the delicious cookie crumble layer in an icecream cake. I'm Yates.

Since mafia didn't shoot Nolder he could have been reading the thread with only the knowledge that DesBat was dead.

Oh... This is actually a nice catch. Possibly a reach but worth pursuing. Looking forward to Krak's response.

 

Ah but Thane?

Sorry, Yates.

I miss Thane.

 

What?

Started trying to read, but since Friday evening there's been a bazillion pages added! I've been jotting things down, but I'm out of time before bed, so I've got my people semi sorted:

This is a scummy lie. No one "jots" mafia notes! Scan these notes and post the image for all to see or hang [or get shot!]!

Jack_D... Him linking Red and AJ together remains one of the scummiest and non-logical things that I have seen this game. His catch-up posts , unlike the ones from Krak and Lenlo, seems fabricated to me and a lot of his reads on people are based on nonsensical things.

I at least agree with this stuff here.

I am more likely to believe Yates. He hasn't been countered and this is the kind of play I'd expect from him.

I'm not sure why I have to keep addressing this but I'll do it one more time. This is very important: never believe a vig claim just because the claim hasn't been countered. A vig counters at night. With a shot. To the fake vig claimer's face. This is why scum can't fake claim vig. It draws too much attention. Plus, you just became an investigation target. And, really, unless you are super ballsy VT or BP or something like that, you never fake claim vig as Town. It just isn't done.

So if you are reading me as Town outside of my claim? That's cool. But don't read me as Town BECAUSE OF my vig claim. That's bad.

1. Cloud saying he wasn't going to vote someone so obviously town as Mishtress, and that was before her reveal and self vote. Very odd thing to say. Like he knew she was gunna flip town. I also find this suspicious cause he didn't receive any heat for this. Everyone let it slip.

So it's weird not to want to lynch a strong Town read? And you think you can only have a strong Town read after a claim? That's pretty out there...

2. I think it would be nearly impossible for Yates and red to be scum together at this point. However that doesn't fully clear Yates ATM as I'm still suspicious of him. Scum could of gotten an extra kill or anything and only been able to janitor one. Then they kill red night 2 setting Yates up for a nice coast to endgame.

True. As long as you think the town would somehow believe that the scum would have no interest in shooting the vig, what you are proposing in bold makes perfect logical sense. Should we get a show of hands to see how many people think scum wont consider the vig a prime night target? Or perhaps we can even dumb that down to finding out how many people think scum wouldn't target a "CLEARED" Townie? Bottom line: I knew I wouldn't make it to end game the second I revealed. That's how this role works. You know this, yes?

 

##Vote Jack.

He's my top scum read.

Why?

And very interesting flip from an FoS at tommy for no reason to a vote at me with none either.

 

Yeah, Dawn. You really need to justify your vote. This is how I determine if you are in my vig pool or tonight depending on our lynch flip.
 

He just seems scummier than everyone else.

FYI? THAT is not going to cut it. What SPECIFICALLY makes him scummier than everyone else? Is it something he said? IS it something he DIDN'T say? Is it something he did? Is it something he DIDN'T do? There's a reason you think this and it really need to be made public.

 

I pretty much love this entire post by Yates.

[Andrej]

Tommy

Yates

NyanCat

Red

HalLee

 

Jack

Verbalina

Len

Dice

Zanube

 

Mynd

X

Krak

 

MegaLoud

Dawn

 

*edit - fixed coloring

[Tommyrod]

Lenlo is it wrong that me being your sole town lean is making me uncomfortable? Because I feel uncomfortable.