What will be "Rands/Lews Therins" Challenge Be In The Next Age?

[Mr Ares]

 

 

 

Does it matter what number the age is given, so long as its the one before the age if legends?

It does, when my argument is that our age is TWO ages before the age of legends.

 

How do you arrive by this conclusion?

 

See my reasoning above. I think we're close to age three (the age of the story) both in the future and in the past. As far as I can recall, Thom's story does NOT indicate that our age was right before the age of legends.

 

For me, it being age seven makes more sense (if we were age 1, maybe we wouldn't remember Mat/Odin).

Well, he does refer to "the Age before the Age of Legends". So, yes, it does indicate our Age was right before the AoL.

[damandred]

 

 

 

 

 

Does it matter what number the age is given, so long as its the one before the age if legends?

It does, when my argument is that our age is TWO ages before the age of legends.

How do you arrive by this conclusion?

See my reasoning above. I think we're close to age three (the age of the story) both in the future and in the past. As far as I can recall, Thom's story does NOT indicate that our age was right before the age of legends.

 

For me, it being age seven makes more sense (if we were age 1, maybe we wouldn't remember Mat/Odin).

Well, he does refer to "the Age before the Age of Legends". So, yes, it does indicate our Age was right before the AoL.

 

The Gleemanl: chapter4 tEotW; Thom Merilin " Stories from the Age before the Age of Legends, some say. PERHAPS EVEN OLDER. But i have all stories, mind you now, of Ages that were and will be. Ages when men ruled the heavens and the stars, and Ages when man roamed as brother to the animals. Ages of wonder, and Ages of horror. Ages ended by fire raining from the skies, and Ages doomed by snow and ice covering land and sea. I have all stories, and i will tell all stories. Tales of Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of fire that could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, Queen of All. Tales of Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind."

The last to are obviously from our age, though he doesnt say to which of the ages that he mentions above they belong too.

[csarmi]

Exactly.

[Shadow's Demise]

Hmm ''Ages Doomed by snow and ice covering the land and sea'' Would that be an age ended by the Ice age maybe?

[Shadow's Demise]

Could be the end of the Seventh Age And we are now in the First Age. At the end of our age we discover OP and move in to age of legends :)

[BFG]

In the prologue of Eye of the World we see Lews Therin going mad and killing himself. From that point on we witness Rands battle with madness and PTSD throughout the series. We don't know much about the balefire weave other than the destructive nature of it, which is obviously one of the reasons why it was banned, but it also appears that crossing balefire weaves has a bonding effect much different than the one that the Aes Sedai use. In the epilogue Rand was able to swap bodies to escape death and while riding off in the sunset light a pipe without any perceivable outside force.

 

I think this is a foreshadowing of Rands next battle with the Dark One. I believe that Robert Jordan set a stage for an even darker and hopeless Last Battle. I don't think people will have access to the One Power. It will be lost or used up and gone leaving a bunch of regular people to fight the Dark One and the new Forsaken who have access to the True Power. This is why the body swap, the saa in his eye, and lighting of the pipe is so important because this entire 14 book series foreshadows a battle that Robert Jordan never intended to write.

I'm hoping it won't be quote so bleak. At the moment the DO's sealed away, a perfect seal, so in order for there to be another battle his prison needs to be broken. I'd think that whatever's used to break the prison is capable of being used against him. It's most likely to be the Power again, come the next AOL, but if it's something else, then there's no reason to think humanity would be left with nothing.

 

 

I find it unfair. All it takes is just for the dark one to win one battle throughout the ages and it is over for everyone. 

Yet, no one can get rid of the dark one even when he or she wins the battle.

Not quite, Ishy says to Rand that they've fought many times and that sometimes the dragon turns, sometimes the good guys lose, this has also been confirmed by RJ. It's true the DO hasn't had an 'ultimate victory yet' tho.

[mb]

 

The First Age I take begins with Creation.

The Seventh Age I guess would end with the worlds and the universes becoming destroyed; perhaps also people/plants/animals.

 

There is no beginning or endings to the wheel, though i supose if there was going to be a ending it would mean Rand lost the last battle, and that would only begin a new cycle of slavery.

 

I did not say (or even mean) that the Wheel would end; nor the Pattern.

The Wheel/Pattern might be able to continue if all other created things get destroyed.

[Mr Ares]

 

 

 

 

 

Does it matter what number the age is given, so long as its the one before the age if legends?

It does, when my argument is that our age is TWO ages before the age of legends.

How do you arrive by this conclusion?

See my reasoning above. I think we're close to age three (the age of the story) both in the future and in the past. As far as I can recall, Thom's story does NOT indicate that our age was right before the age of legends.

 

For me, it being age seven makes more sense (if we were age 1, maybe we wouldn't remember Mat/Odin).

Well, he does refer to "the Age before the Age of Legends". So, yes, it does indicate our Age was right before the AoL.

The Gleemanl: chapter4 tEotW; Thom Merilin " Stories from the Age before the Age of Legends, some say. PERHAPS EVEN OLDER. But i have all stories, mind you now, of Ages that were and will be. Ages when men ruled the heavens and the stars, and Ages when man roamed as brother to the animals. Ages of wonder, and Ages of horror. Ages ended by fire raining from the skies, and Ages doomed by snow and ice covering land and sea. I have all stories, and i will tell all stories. Tales of Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of fire that could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, Queen of All. Tales of Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind."

The last to are obviously from our age, though he doesnt say to which of the ages that he mentions above they belong too.

I stand by what I said. Saying you have stories from the Age before the Age of Legends, stories which refer to our Age, does indicate that our Age is the Age before the AoL. Note that I said indicate, not prove. In TSR 20 he states outright: "Go back further, back to the oldest stories I know, from the Age before the Age of Legends. Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants? Was Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister? Was Anla truly the Wise Counsellor or was it someone else?" His earlier statement leaves open the possibility that these stories might be older, but his earlier statements are also a part of his story telling, him putting on an act, and thus a measure of hyperbole must be accepted. Balance of evidence indicates we are the First Age. Us being the Seventh can't be conclusively proven untrue, perhaps, but there's nothing to support it being true.

[damandred]

 

 

 

The First Age I take begins with Creation.

The Seventh Age I guess would end with the worlds and the universes becoming destroyed; perhaps also people/plants/animals.

There is no beginning or endings to the wheel, though i supose if there was going to be a ending it would mean Rand lost the last battle, and that would only begin a new cycle of slavery.

I did not say (or even mean) that the Wheel would end; nor the Pattern.

The Wheel/Pattern might be able to continue if all other created things get destroyed.

 

To leave what? A Age of nothingness? I think i understand what you mean, but i dont think your right. I believe some Ages end in disaster, the time of madness, Ice Age, Nuclear War, but people survive. They might go to the edge of extinction, but enough remain to rebuild.

[damandred]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it matter what number the age is given, so long as its the one before the age if legends?

It does, when my argument is that our age is TWO ages before the age of legends.

How do you arrive by this conclusion?

See my reasoning above. I think we're close to age three (the age of the story) both in the future and in the past. As far as I can recall, Thom's story does NOT indicate that our age was right before the age of legends.

 

For me, it being age seven makes more sense (if we were age 1, maybe we wouldn't remember Mat/Odin).

Well, he does refer to "the Age before the Age of Legends". So, yes, it does indicate our Age was right before the AoL.

The Gleemanl: chapter4 tEotW; Thom Merilin " Stories from the Age before the Age of Legends, some say. PERHAPS EVEN OLDER. But i have all stories, mind you now, of Ages that were and will be. Ages when men ruled the heavens and the stars, and Ages when man roamed as brother to the animals. Ages of wonder, and Ages of horror. Ages ended by fire raining from the skies, and Ages doomed by snow and ice covering land and sea. I have all stories, and i will tell all stories. Tales of Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of fire that could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, Queen of All. Tales of Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind."

The last to are obviously from our age, though he doesnt say to which of the ages that he mentions above they belong too.

I stand by what I said. Saying you have stories from the Age before the Age of Legends, stories which refer to our Age, does indicate that our Age is the Age before the AoL. Note that I said indicate, not prove. In TSR 20 he states outright: "Go back further, back to the oldest stories I know, from the Age before the Age of Legends. Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants? Was Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister? Was Anla truly the Wise Counsellor or was it someone else?" His earlier statement leaves open the possibility that these stories might be older, but his earlier statements are also a part of his story telling, him putting on an act, and thus a measure of hyperbole must be accepted. Balance of evidence indicates we are the First Age. Us being the Seventh can't be conclusively proven untrue, perhaps, but there's nothing to support it being true.

I had forgotten that quote from tSR, its seems you are right.

I thought csarmi' suggestion had some merit though, that by the fact myth that pertains to the story is around today our age is closer to the story than the first age would be.

[damandred]

Going on the premiss, that our age is the first age. Going to speculate on how our age ends and ushers in the AoL.

I would guess that after scientists somehow unify the sciences, and they have a complete understanding of the universe, the one power is discovered, along with parallel universes. ( portal stones.) Once it is found that people can channel the new energy, nations react with fear, which ends in nuclear war. The OP is used to save some of humanity (Tamyrlin?) And the survivers emerge without the technology of the old world, but, with a new healing power, and a deep aversion to war and conflict, that helps it grow into the great civilization, that was, before the bore was drilled.

[mb]

 

 

 

The First Age I take begins with Creation.

The Seventh Age I guess would end with the worlds and the universes becoming destroyed; perhaps also people/plants/animals.

There is no beginning or endings to the wheel, though i supose if there was going to be a ending it would mean Rand lost the last battle, and that would only begin a new cycle of slavery.

I did not say (or even mean) that the Wheel would end; nor the Pattern.

The Wheel/Pattern might be able to continue if all other created things get destroyed.

 

To leave what? A Age of nothingness? I think i understand what you mean, but i dont think your right. I believe some Ages end in disaster, the time of madness, Ice Age, Nuclear War, but people survive. They might go to the edge of extinction, but enough remain to rebuild.

 

Like I told, the next Age would begin with a new Creation.

Robert Jordan told that there would be differences in different cycles; maybe one of those differences would be the shape of the world.

[damandred]

 

 

 

 

 

The First Age I take begins with Creation.

The Seventh Age I guess would end with the worlds and the universes becoming destroyed; perhaps also people/plants/animals.

There is no beginning or endings to the wheel, though i supose if there was going to be a ending it would mean Rand lost the last battle, and that would only begin a new cycle of slavery.

I did not say (or even mean) that the Wheel would end; nor the Pattern.

The Wheel/Pattern might be able to continue if all other created things get destroyed.

To leave what? A Age of nothingness? I think i understand what you mean, but i dont think your right. I believe some Ages end in disaster, the time of madness, Ice Age, Nuclear War, but people survive. They might go to the edge of extinction, but enough remain to rebuild.

Like I told, the next Age would begin with a new Creation.

Robert Jordan told that there would be differences in different cycles; maybe one of those differences would be the shape of the world.

Your first statement suggested a complete destuction, you say animals, plants, people. I dont understand are you now saying, that is not the case?

[mb]

In different words:: at least the worlds & universes would be destroyed then new ones (and all that is to be in them) would be created.

[Sabio]

After all the creator doesn't die so if the world died, nothing say he just can't whip up a new one and start over. 

[damandred]

In different words:: at least the worlds & universes would be destroyed then new ones (and all that is to be in them) would be created.

There is nothing anywhere to suggest this happens.

[Xthrax]

Most likely things will develop, reach the pinnacle of science(like going to the moon as in description of first age). One Power or its equivalent will be discovered, use AoL. Dark One discovered and the cycle will just continue. Rand sealed the bore just like how the creator made. The same thing could happen all over again-it could worser depending upon the Release of DO and the Breaking.

 

Honestly, I think Rand mission in the 4th age will be to stay unnoticed and not be discovered as himself.

[mb]

 

In different words:: at least the worlds & universes would be destroyed then new ones (and all that is to be in them) would be created.

There is nothing anywhere to suggest this happens.

 

As far as I am aware, there is neither disagreement or agreement with it.

[damandred]

When rand dies he becomes the creator.

there is no agreement or disagreement in that. Doesnt make it true.

[mb]

Any theory does not necessarily need to be true for it to be likely.  Unless either author confirmed a contradictory theory, or denied the theory.

As far as I am aware, they have not confirmed or denied any theory about the end/beginning of the cycles.

[damandred]

Any theory does not necessarily need to be true for it to be likely. Unless either author confirmed a contradictory theory, or denied the theory.

As far as I am aware, they have not confirmed or denied any theory about the end/beginning of the cycles.

How is the universe beging destroyed then remade likely? Who destroys it? For what reason? And if im not mistaken from rand /LTT pov in KoD doesnt rand speculate that once the creator makes a world he no longer gets involved just leaves it to it.

[The1stAge]

There's a little bit of contradiction regarding whether the time we currently live in (presently 2014) is the 7th or 1st age.  RJ also said that the ending of an Age doesn't necessarily have to be in gigantic war, but it is definitely dramatic.  We can only speculate how the 4th-6th Ages end (or will end).  

 

So what I proposed, was that the 7th Age is the "Age of Industry" when mankind becomes reliant on technology in the absence of channeling, and so the Wheel drives the need for the resurgence of channelers and pushes the scales back the other way.  To force the world to rely on channelers rather than technology so to eventually return to the harmonious balance of both in the idyllic Age of Legends.  

 

What forces the transition between 7th and 1st Ages?  Probably the nuclear war reference in the "Lances of Fire" wielded by Mosk and Merk.  At least, that's my interpretation of events.  We can't truly know for certain, and there could be alternate endings to Ages in subsequent turnings of the Wheel. 

[damandred]

But Thom in SR says mosk and merk are from the age before the AoL, so going by that it puts this age as the first age.

[mb]

who/what destroys the universe?  There might be many possibilities for that.

One possibility could be either 1 huge explosion or a series of explosions.  Probably technologically advanced nation/nations

 

About the POV, the comment might have came from Moridin.

Regardless of who it came from, characters could be mistaken at times.

[Mr Ares]

 

Any theory does not necessarily need to be true for it to be likely. Unless either author confirmed a contradictory theory, or denied the theory.

As far as I am aware, they have not confirmed or denied any theory about the end/beginning of the cycles.

How is the universe beging destroyed then remade likely? Who destroys it? For what reason? And if im not mistaken from rand /LTT pov in KoD doesnt rand speculate that once the creator makes a world he no longer gets involved just leaves it to it.

I'd also point out that circular time would weigh against it - if it takes direct interference from a god to bring us back to the beginning, we might be going in circles but time wouldn't. Time would be linear but with a reset button.

 

But Thom in SR says mosk and merk are from the age before the AoL, so going by that it puts this age as the first age.

In addition, if our Age was the Seventh, there would appear to be a curious lack of stories, myths and legends from the First Age.