Anyone else find it odd that Moridin's body was allowed to go free?

[Pandemonium]

One thing about the ending that I never understood was why Moridin's body was not put under guard.  Nynaeve and Moiraine didn't know that Moridin was really Rand did they?  They saw Rand battling Moridin in Shayol Ghul.  I mean it would be kind of odd to just let a random body that walked out of Shayol Ghul go free. 

 

Anyway, I didn't understand that part of the book.  Other intreprations are welcome. 

[Leala]

I thought Alivia was the "guard."  She was the one that "helped Rand die."  I don't remember 100%, though, because I read it over a year ago.

[Sabio]

Everyone was at the funeral at the time, only Casudane saw him leave.  It seemed weird there was no guards but I just chalk that up to people attending the funeral and no one expecting him to just up and go at that time.  There will probably be many shocked people when they return.  Not sure if Alivia was the guard or not, she did leave all the supplies for Rand.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Since Rand went to the trouble of carrying him out, they probably weren't too gung-ho to let everybody know he was Forsaken and needed guarding before they knew why he did that.

 

As to why they weren't standing guard themselves... I guess they felt it was unlikely he'd get up, and felt it was important that they be present at the funeral. For their followers, and for the people who died. And out of respect for their dead Dragon friend.

[LewsTherin10]

I've actually thought a lot about this very thing.  I just finished a reread and it just doesn't sit well with me.  It bothers me very very very much.  Obviously at least Moiraine and Nynaeve know he's a Forsaken and I can't remember if anyone else knows his face but it doesn't really matter again because of Nynaeve and Moiraine.  Nynaeve even comments about how it's not fair that Rand is dying and Moridin is getting better.  So she must have known that he would wake soon.  Under every circumstance possible, there would be multiple Aes Sedai even Asha'man working in shifts to shield and guard Moridin.  Now my guess is that they tried this but Moridin/Rand can't channel anymore so they assumed that he was burned out in the fight at Shayol Ghul.  That's perfectly understandable even though we never get that impression from Nynaeve's POV.  But even if he can't channel, I'm sure the Aes Sedai would love nothing more than to interrogate Moridin so why leave him unguarded at all.  Soldier or Warders should be guarding his body.  He's still dangerous even though he can't channel anymore. 

 

AND...here's the zinger:  Does Alivia know that Rand switched bodies and if so, how does she know?

[mb]

Possible reasons for not guarding the body::

-the earlier carrying that Rand did.

-a thought that even a Forsaken could come to the Light.

-the initial dying of both bodies

[DemandredFO]

The harem could have had something to do with it or Cadsuane since she probably suspected something when the three didn't begin wailing immediately. On a side note, they could have at least feigned grieving unless Rand taverened Cadsuane getting distracted into becoming amarlyn. She has to get rid of the oaths or she's going to be amarlyn for only 3 days, then die

[mb]

It seems to me that Cadsuane has at least several years left.  the Encyclopaedia site tells that she was raised to the shawl about 731NE at age 26.  http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/c/cadsuane.html

Thus age 300 will occur about 1005NE.

 

I recall from somewhere that 3 oaths on the Oath Rod halves remaining lifespan.  If that is so, she would die at age 313 if her normal lifespan is 600 years; later than age 313 if her lifespan is longer than 600 years.

[jack of shadows]

in my opinion,it was a combination of factors.

rand's tremendous effort to drag moridin out of the pit probably wasn't enough

to give him(moridin) carte blanche in their camp,but it was enough to give him

some sort of approval,especially to nynaeve who clearly was in charge of the

healing and really really trusted rand.

the rest of it was probably an oversight,the forces of light just won a huge victory,

they were exhausted,happy and drunk( some of them),so when the the time came

to start the dragon reborn funeral rites,everyone went to pay their last respects,

including the guards(according to perrin,rand's healing tent was cordoned off by

soldiers),fortunately or maybe being a ta'veren,rand did wake up during "his"

funeral,and was able to slip away almost undetected. 

Edited February 24, 2014 by jack of shadows

[damandred]

Cant remember, but didnt nynaeve corner aviendha before the rites began? If so she might of been aware of the body swap.

[jack of shadows]

@damandred,

yes she did.but aviendha's response was very odd:"let us prepare his pyre",at that point,

aviendha could barely walk,she needed the help of two maidens just to stand near min

and elayne during the funeral.

curiously enough,just after aviendha's odd response,we do have birgitte's point of view

from outside the tent:"nearby,soldiers prepared rand al'thor pyre" without mentioning

nynaeve or aviendha.

so did aviendha tell nynaeve that rand is alive? your guess is as good as mine.

[NeverTame]

I don't think Aviendha would have told Nynaeve at that point. It was too big of a thing to be discussed in the middle of all the things going on, especially as it was not meant to become common knowledge. But I think Nynaeve suspected, and Cadsuane suspected something at least, and they probably wouldn't have spread the information on Moridin's identity too widely, either, because having a real live Forsaken in the camp would probably have caused someone to do something stupid. So I imagine his disappearance was probably relatively easy to gloss over.

[Durinax]

the thing that really bothered me is that camp would be mostly Aiel since they where doing the bulk of the fighting there so how he got past them kind of bothers me. Although the whole losing your original body thing bothers me to begin with

[jack of shadows]

@durinax,

why would aiel forces stop and detain an unknown soldier returning home from

the fighting in shayol ghul?

[jack of shadows]

@nevertame,

" i don't think aviendha would have told nynaeve at that point."

i agree.nor at any point for that matter,rand meant everything to aviendha,

she and min and to a lesser extent elayne undertood rand's desire to get away

from the whole dragon reborn thing.

during "rand"'s funeral the three girls reached some sort of an agreement:

"elayne.so now what?"

"now...aviendha said.now we make sure that everyone well and truly believes he is gone."

"min nodded..."

[NeverTame]

Yeah alright, it probably wouldn't have been Aviendha who told Nynaeve at any point, but I do believe that Nynaeve would have been let in on the secret eventually. Either Rand himself telling her, or Elayne (with Rand's consent), at some point a bit later when things have calmed down. Same with Tam; I'm not buying that they would have just let him live the rest of his life thinking his son dead.

Edited February 25, 2014 by NeverTame

[Durinax]

@durinax,

why would aiel forces stop and detain an unknown soldier returning home from

the fighting in shayol ghul?

I can't remember how many non Aiel there where there, but from what I remember there where very low numbers so that may be a thing, not to mention they are way up north and gateway would be the way most of them get home.

[Pandemonium]

I personally think Sanderson could have written this section a bit better.  Even a sentence or 2 of clarification would have made all the difference.  For example, Alivia's part was way too down-played at the end.  I think if we had a had a small Alivia POV explaining what was going on it would have added wonderfully to the ending.  Especially since Aliva was the one prophesized to help Rand die.  Since Alvia was one of the 4 people to know what was really going, her POV would have been very appropriate. 

 

I guess I never liked the ending very much because it never made sense why Moridin was just allowed to get up and walk free.  Even based on all the speculation here, it could have been clarified a touch more.  It is possible though, that it was left this way because RJ had already written the whole scene.

[Sabio]

You have to remember 99% of the people in camp would have no idea who Moridin was if they saw him.  So if they saw him walking about why would they be suspicious.  For me its that everyone was at the funeral and why leave guards on an unconscious person?  The funeral probably didn't last long so Moridin wasn't going to be left alone for long.  For all we know all Aliva was told by Rand was to gather gold, clothing, and other supplies and leave the stuff in the tent.  She might not of been clear on why she was being asked to do this, but she did it.  So there might not of been much to tell from her POV she was told to do something by Rand so she did it.

[damandred]

At least one asha'man knew he was a forsaken and he was getting better. Flin must of spoke to someone. Ok people were celebrating and going to rands funeral, the last battle had been won and evil defeated, but surely you just dont forget about a forsaken, or the leaders dont at least.

[Sabio]

But again it comes to why guard an unconscious body?  The funeral wasn't going to last very long so again why guard an unconscious person?

[NeverTame]

Guarded or not guarded during the funeral, I'd imagine "allowed to go free" includes the assumption that he was not chased down off-screen after the book ended. So the question isn't really about "why wasn't he guarded that very moment/prevented from leaving?" Or at least not just that.

[mb]

some reasons to watch an unconscious person::

-in case the person becomes conscious

-in case person's condition becomes worse

-in case someone else attempts something to or with the person

 

other possible reasons why they did not guard::

-they trusted Rand

-they thought that the person was not dangerous

-they thought that the person did not intend any harm

[Pandemonium]

some reasons to watch an unconscious person::

-in case the person becomes conscious

-in case person's condition becomes worse

-in case someone else attempts something to or with the person

 

other possible reasons why they did not guard::

-they trusted Rand

-they thought that the person was not dangerous

-they thought that the person did not intend any harm

 

I like the way you lay it out here.  However, Moiraine and Nynaeve would never have said that Moridin could not be dangerous or did not intend any harm.  If Nynaeve delved Moridin, she could probably see his health was rapidly returning.

 

For this reason, I never liked the Moridin walks off into the sunset ending that this book had.  I think a little more explanation was needed. 

[Sabio]

But this is where the problem lies we are trying to guess what Nynaeve, Moiraine might of said or done, or what we feel they should of said.  Only Ny and the Asha'man healer (forget his name) even seemed to pay Moridin any mind at all.  If Ny had truly thought he was dangerous wouldn't she just of blasted him and be done with a forsaken?  I think its clear no one really considered him much of a threat and thought he was in no condition to do much of anything.  With him slowly getting better if anything it was probably assumed it would take him a lot longer to get better, and it wouldn't turn into the body sitting up and just walking out as if nothing had happened.  If we are going to guess it might be that Alivia ensured there was no guards.  But I don't think anyone said who he was, Morinae clearly wasn't paying much attention to Moridins body.  There was no attempt for Aes Sedai to try and shield him as he was getting better.   The Aes Sedai certainly would of been there had they known who the body was.  With Ny being so upset with Rand dying I can imagine she wasn't thinking as clearly as she normally would of been not to mention trying to figure out the strange behavior from Rand's women. So for me there are any possible explanations as to why the body was left alone.  Also could of been that BS didn't elaborate because RJ didn't leave much about it.  I thought I read somewhere that the ending was RJ's.  So BS might not of felt comfortable trying to expand on what RJ had.