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[Basic] The Matrix - Game Over


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Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

 

Typically in basic games you'll see more vanilla than PRs. I agree that with the total number of players that 3 scum are likely as the ratio is typically ~25%. However, given that 3rd party solo-aligned players have been listed in the potential roles it's possible to have a survivor/sk as well. 9/3/1 basically, or more simply 10/3 without 3rd party. As far as what roles are assigned, who knows. We have a miller claim, so to me that indicates the likelihood of a cop as well given the purpose of a miller role but beyond that we will just have to see as the game progresses.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 4:11 AM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:38 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:16 PM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 7:21 PM, Darthe said:

Idk why it happens to me so much.

I suppose you think we should lynch you now to get the wifom out of the way.

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 8:06 PM, Andrej said:

I think he was claiming Miller.

I thought he was ordering a beer.

 

 

1. I'd rather hear what you think we should do.

2. If so, I'll take one as well :biggrin:

 

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 3:55 AM, Andrej said:

 

Okay, so I ask Nerv how he got a town vibe from our talk about kids. He makes a jokey statement. I explain that him naming us both town for something so unrelated to the game is suspect. He retracts, bringing up the joke phase and then calling the interaction a null-tell (which it should've been). Nerv were you joking here as well when you called us both town?

 

 

Yeah. I already told you. It should have been blatantly obvious I don't make my reads on you based on the fact that you talk about your kids  :dry:

 

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 3:46 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 2:46 AM, nervositee said:

 

I'm not sure if I'm being unclear, or if you really are jumping at straws here? 

 

I'm mainly being unserious, it's start of game. Throwing observations out there to see how people react to them, joking around, picking up clues, seeing who is active, who keeps their head down, who buddies, who distances etc. 

 

So, to start at the bottom; why do I need a reason to bring it up? It's a joke. Lawyers = scummy. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, but I think you're looking too hard here man. 

 

And back to your point # 1, sorry if I'm not being clear about how unserious/serious I am. It's page 4. I threw out the statement that while the thread is mainly people checking in, saying hello etc. you are being a very active scumhunter. It's an observation, nothing more. The fact that you see that as "wishy-washy" enough to think I'm scum and change your vote to me seems rash though. 

 

Bottom line is, it's great that you jump straight into it and scumhunt. I made an observation about it, while not putting it in either the town- or the scum-camp. That's all. 

 

 

1. The joke on GE is sort of irrelevant to the point I'm making.

2. Observations are fine. When I say wishy-washy I am talking about the ambiguity in your statement. You basically said 'He's active. Could be scum or town.' You're making a statement without necessarily taking a hard stance on it. This could allow you some wiggle room to change your opinion later. I find that suspicious.

3. I don't think my vote moving to you is a rash decision. I have made some commentary on you (about the town-reads) prior to moving my vote after your last post. I can't say 100% that you are scum, but I think you are a good place to start looking.

 

 

1. Hmm? 

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open. 

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash  :rolleyes:

 

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

Posted

Prob not enough time for me to go through and quote everything, gotta get up front soon. So eh I'll just ramble a wee bit.

 

Vos looks pretty questionable to me. In fact, Unvote, Vote Vos, cause AJ is making sense so far and he used the same nickname I used for Vos. I like. But yeah, the "ur both town for being daddies lol" thing was strange, and he seems to be overplaying how unserious he is right now in response to AJ's points. Plus, he so far seems to be playing a good bit different than he did in his first game where he was town.

 

I'm wary of those bringing talk back to Darthe's claim, especially in his defense. Why willingly wade into wifom like that? Darthe did the right thing (if he is a Miller) by claiming up front. He didn't so so under duress or anything, so that's a bit in his favor somewhat. But regardless, he claimed Miller. Debating whether or not he did so as scum is wifom at it's finest. We wouldn't be lynching a claimed Miller "out of desperation" on Day 1, we'd do so because that's a great safe lynch for town on D1. Best case scenario, we catch scum. Worst case, we take out a negative utility role. It's perfect. Err in particular stands out for his posts regarding this matter.

 

Theo, I'm helpful no matter what my alignment is. I'm hurt that you would think otherwise!

 

:madmyrddraal:

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

This is the post I was referring to.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 2:42 AM, Darthe said:

I actually agree as well. Millers should die. I should, at most, only live a few days. It also says to me that mafia is likely a bit UP so if I can contribute strongly while I am alive then it's going to have a good impact overall.

Miller is a negative utility role (it can hurt town), so actually if anything it would imply to you that the scum team might be a bit UNDERpowered... Which I just realized you did say UP so mebbe were on the same page. Assumed at first you meant OP, as in overpowered. So yeah, disregard lol.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 4:11 AM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:38 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 11:16 PM, Basel Gill said:

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 7:21 PM, Darthe said:

Idk why it happens to me so much.

I suppose you think we should lynch you now to get the wifom out of the way.

 

  On 1/24/2014 at 8:06 PM, Andrej said:

I think he was claiming Miller.

I thought he was ordering a beer.

1. I'd rather hear what you think we should do.

2. If so, I'll take one as well :biggrin:

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

And Basel was the other person to talk about the subject, unprompted in fact.

 

Again, just seems counterproductive to me to willingly engage wifom like this. Unless, of course, you're scum trying to look like you're participating even when youre not really contributing much.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 11:02 AM, Despothera said:

[...] Plus, he so far seems to be playing a good bit different than he did in his first game where he was town.

 

 

My first game was the wreck-it-ralph-game where I was mafia. Then I replaced in to the French Revolution game where everything had already gotten pretty serious (and tangled due to PM-talk). This is my third game, so I haven't exactly developed a meta yet. I'm starting to feel more relaxed in mafia so I thought I'd participate in the D1 banter. Obviously I shouldn't have mixed unserious banter with saying stuff like "town-read". Duly noted. 

Posted

 

 

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

 

 

This comment looks like you had nothing to say but still wanted to be a part of the discussion.  Trying too hard?

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

 

Agreed about testing his claim. 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

 

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player?  You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town? 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

 

1. Hmm? 

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open. 

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash  :rolleyes:

 

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

 

 

You're being led around here.

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 3:26 PM, TGlems said:

 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

 

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

 

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

 

 

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player?  You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town? 

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

 

1. Hmm? 

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open. 

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash  :rolleyes:

 

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

 

 

You're being led around here.

 

 

Yep, that's what I started realizing. I'm planning on letting my answer to Des be what I have to say about the whole tangle. Moving on. 

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 11:53 AM, Despothera said:

Eh, I'll cut you some slack for now. That response seemed genuine.

 

Unvote, Vote Err

We are weirdly in sync this game.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

This whole thing deserves a vote. It reads as way too in the know, like the player wanted to say something townite but didn't quite know how to so he gave up some info about his team.

 

unvote vote Err

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 11:53 AM, Despothera said:

Eh, I'll cut you some slack for now. That response seemed genuine.

 

Unvote, Vote Err

 

so let me get this right..... u think we should all lynch Darthe because that the optimal path at this point (kill a scum or kill a negative towny role).... but i think we could wait a day with this high number of players to make that move (and i m not the only one)... so u do the very same thing that u are accusing me of... voting for someone other then darthe on the first day....

Posted
  On 1/25/2014 at 3:54 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 11:53 AM, Despothera said:

Eh, I'll cut you some slack for now. That response seemed genuine.

 

Unvote, Vote Err

We are weirdly in sync this game.

 

  On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

This whole thing deserves a vote. It reads as way too in the know, like the player wanted to say something townite but didn't quite know how to so he gave up some info about his team.

 

unvote vote Err

 

well yes... i m trying to figure out the game dynamics.... its always always helpful... i did the same thing in the previous game of which u were a part of too.... so i am going to continue to keep guessing and putting theories to figure things out.... 

Posted

Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

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