[Basic] The Matrix - Game Over

[Nolder]

So does night get over in half 'n' hour or is it extended

It's extended. I will probably end night before I go to bed though, which is ~3 hours.

[Nolder]

Basel, Switch, Vanilla Town has been killed

 

[Nolder]

Day starts now.

[Xthrax]

Damn Basel is dead. Him being VT agrees with what I thought after the reread.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay prob gonna do random catchup stuff first, followed by some iso's. Fun in the sun!

 

This is what I meant.
 

PM's going out now.

  

I think Nol forgot about me?

 

 

 

So I guess Nolder is The Architect?

 

Not that important, but saw this in my reread. Krak was likely in inactive kill, but it is possible the scum team got their role pm's early too and thought Krak could be a PR because he had his apparently.

 

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet. 

 

Err´s mentioning of a GF could be something. I will keep it in mind. Not a reason for a vote yet. 

 

I´m a bit suspicious of Des. His initial case on Vos was bad. As I said, maybe it was just a way of trying to start the game by joining AJ. Then he thinks Vos´s answer looked genuine and unvoted him. But later he says that TG and Vos looks scummier than Golden. Do you think Vos is scummy or not? 

 

Which brings me to Golden. I see that I will have a problem with, what you call, aggressive style. I would rather call it rude style. I totally agree with Darthe´s vote on Golden. I´m trying to see if my dislike of his play style is colouring my thoughts about him but I don´t think I agree with anything he has said so far. 

 

Vote Golden

 

Overall during my reread my scum read on Tina went down a bit, but I still gotta point this post out. Didn't like it then, still don't like it, and more importantly she does something scummier than hard defend a known scummer here- she soft defends. Generally defends Theo about the whole thing regarding Vos, but still fos's her.

 

 

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet. 

 

Err´s mentioning of a GF could be something. I will keep it in mind. Not a reason for a vote yet. 

 

I´m a bit suspicious of Des. His initial case on Vos was bad. As I said, maybe it was just a way of trying to start the game by joining AJ. Then he thinks Vos´s answer looked genuine and unvoted him. But later he says that TG and Vos looks scummier than Golden. Do you think Vos is scummy or not? 

 

Which brings me to Golden. I see that I will have a problem with, what you call, aggressive style. I would rather call it rude style. I totally agree with Darthe´s vote on Golden. I´m trying to see if my dislike of his play style is colouring my thoughts about him but I don´t think I agree with anything he has said so far. 

 

Vote Golden

 

RE Theo: I agree that it's a little weird that she was holding her vote for so long, but she explained she doesn't like throwing around a ton of votes on D1. I honestly didn't see anything necessarily scummy in regards to what she said about Vos. To me I read it as saying that he just looks like confused town, I didn't get the feel that she found him suspicious. The only thing that really stood out to me in that post was her mentioning of her joke vote on Despo and how she didn't bold it because it was too early. I don't understand the need to explain your joke vote.

 

RE Err: Maybe. I don't there's really much though, Xthrax made a good point about how it was listed in the possible roles so perhaps that's what influenced him. Mention some other roles as well (survivor/sk) in my response to Err but nobody seems to care about that in particular.

 

Tina looks mega scummy right now. Her vote on GE WAS terrible, it looked more pike she was trying to say she was voting him because she didn't like his playstyle. Then when she gets called out for it, she tries to retroactively justify her vote better by quoting a bunch of others fos'ing GE. That just looks terrible. I think she's trying to defend a teammate in Theo.

Don't really like how Theo's holding up under pressure. Getting defensive and omgusy. Calls me out for trying to get an easy lynch... riiiight. It was obvious that I was trying to consolidate on someone to get the voting activity up again.

Speaking of which, I still think Err looks scummy. Its not for the GF thing either- I didn't like that he was bandwagoning TG's reasoning about inactives, and I find his "scumhunting" attempts to be a lot poorer than I remember from his other game where he was town. But I'm not gonna let my vote waste away on someone no one else is looking at atm.

I really liked Xthrax's most recent post. Seems well thought out and trying to remain objective.

 

In comparison to GE, I think Theo has held up reasonably well. How is her OMGUS voting TG any different than GE's OMGUS voting of Tina? Also, you say that it was obvious you were consolidating to generate voting activity. Why would that be obvious? You said nothing in the post besides the vote switch. You're assuming that other players are going to pick up on your thoughts without expressing them, so Theo saying you went for the easy vote is a legit statement. I sort of agree with her.

 

I liked X's post as well, good townie vibe from him so far. Not sure about the vote for TG though.

 

In general I have a pretty strong town read on AJ, but this post made me reconsider that somewhat. Obv for the defense of Theo, but he also soft defends both Err and X, two others I have scum reads on now.

 

As for the question he asked me, which I never responded to cause I was off at the time, it should have been obvious because in the post immediately preceding my vote, I talked about how we needed voting activity to step up again. Leaving my vote on an outlier while urging others to start consolidating would have been extremely hypocritical. So yes, had you been reading my posts, it should have been obvious my vote was to consolidate and get voting activity back up.

 

Err - he lives in another time zone, not Europe or USA and he said he would be away for a short time that is why I think he has not replied to the accusations. I do not think that at this point my vote would go to him just for the fact he started analyzing the game mechanics. To me it sounded more like "thinking aloud" but yet again it might have been a slip of the mafia team structure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he appears and comments on the train.

 

Xthrax, Vos and AJ are the only people who try to do some real scum hunting and post their comments in a neat way. I do not necessarily agree with all of them but the goal is to provide information and I think they do well (leaning town). And AJ, no I don't speak the best of English, so if someone doesn't understand something, please ask. I appologise about that.

 

Darthe - still not convinced about his Miller PR. If I were scum and knowing Darthe usually gets viewed early in the game, what better claim than this with his first sentence. His protection for Basel, trying to divert attention to himself pings as well.

 

Despo - I don't see Despo in the game with his meta. He is voting and not commenting like we have seen him play when town. Maybe it's because he is into more than 1 mafia games or he tries the new tactics of lurking. The vote on me without any reason at all was just "brilliant"

 

Tina - I do not know what to think of her - a bit lurky but that is probably her style - sounds a bit over-defensive - null read for now.

 

Golden - I have seen him playing cop and playing scum and this is hi pro-town behaviour. I hope he would give some more explanations, though. I do not like a vote without a stated reason.

 

Anyway, I have my top scum read  in the face of Basel:

1. How quickly he jumped on my train (early Day 1) - very opportunistic move

2. When he saw the train building after Err - he made a consolidation vote

3. Votes Err right away (Day 2) because of the alleged diversion

4. Protects Darthe our "Miller" that he should be left to be a safe lynch later and now Darthe protects Basel, saying Basel votes suck. Looks like an artificial conversation to me.

 

That is all of his scum hunting until now and he presses for a quick lynch. These are enough reasons for me:

 

Vote Basel

 

Quoted partially for post-flip analysis, but honestly the real reason I grabbed this quote in the first place was because I thought that Theo basically spewed Basel as town here since she voted the same person GE voted for initially. I'll also point out in a couple of the coming iso's that I think the scum team realized they had spewed Basel as town with this whole exchange, and I think they started scrambling in backtracking on their fos's on him and stuff, and also prob NK'ed him because of that.

 

More otw

[hazelkrs1]

Gonna start off with my least likely to be scum out of this trio, and end with my strongest scum read.

 

Vos iso:

 

 

 

Nerv - what about it gives you town vibes?

 

 

Idk, it seems like town would discuss their kids, after-school television and babyfood, while scum would talk about which knives are best suited to cut hardwires? But again, maybe this is all cloak-and-dagger-play and you trying to get sympathy for being all soft proud parents, but while the toddlers are away for kindergarden, you plot nightkills and backstabbing? 

 

Gentlemen, we got ourself a real, mexican WIFOM. 

 

Also, Golden is scum. Because lawyer. Scum. 

 

Just wanna point this post out- he later says the whole "peeps talking about their kids? Must be town" thing was a joke, but in this post he doesn't make it seem like it was really a joke at all, he defends his "reasoning" while also hedging his bets somewhat.

 

This is also the first of several cases of him calling GE scum because he's a lawyer, to me repeating the same joke a few times indicates he was trying too hard to maintain a jokey type game for himself.

 

I just googled miller, and got nothing more to add than AJs reasoning and to wait until further into the game before we even touch that with a stick. It would of course help if Darthe came and outright explained his rational for just claiming like that? 

 

Why would Darthe need to explain his rationale for claiming like that? If Vos really read up on the role, I think he'd understand fairly quickly why Darthe would claim early. Just looks like a nudge on Darthe to me. This is kind of a minor point since Vos is new so isn't privy to some of the discussion we've had regarding millers in the past.

 

AJ is either scum trying too hard to look like a "good, active scum-hunter", jumping at every straw he sees, turning every rock just to gain some initial town-cred now before he has to start being careful who he buddies and who he distances himself from

 

Or he is just being a good townie. 

 

All others: Null so far

Again, except Golden who is scum because lawyer. 

 

Pretty bad post right here. A whole bunch of words that mean nothing in the first part cause he's pretty much saying AJ could be scum or town... then says he has a null on everyone else before referencing the lawyer=scum joke again.

 

Dang. Well that gives us effin' nothing. 

 

Will try to read from the start to see what comes up. 

 

This was his post after Krak died. Coulda been a "awh shucks! A Townie got killed!" type of newbscum post. A typical townie reaction would actually have been more grateful the NK didn't hit a PR imo.

---

Not a ton, he seemed a lot scummier at first, but his interaction with others generally made him look a little better imo. He does have a lot of fluff posts tho, and didn't really do much direct scumhunting on his own, he was mainly focused with defending himself for a while. Middling scum read.

[hazelkrs1]

Next up on the trio is Err, who has been somewhat in the spotlight as well

 

Err iso:

 

 

 

Oh and Vote Theodora cause she's obviously scum

ya... theo... i am keeping my on you too pretty close this time !!!!!

 

Early jokey interaction with Theo. At first I assumed this to be a reference to another game where Theo was scum and fooled Err, but on reread this could have been one of those tongue in cheek scum to scum comments you'll occasionally see early in games

 

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

 

The infamous post that got him in so much heat... I still think the last bit is scummier honestly. The setup talk isn't good, but he's stood by his reasoning that setup talk is fine (spoiler alert: It's NOT, at least not early in games when town doesn't have much info yet). The end of the post stinked to me then, and still does however. Don't get at all how he thinks it would be considered a "desperate situation" to have to lynch a claimed Miller, just don't get that at all. Moreover it looks more like he was trying to secure a mislynch in one of the following days.

 

 

Eh, I'll cut you some slack for now. That response seemed genuine.

Unvote, Vote Err

 

so let me get this right..... u think we should all lynch Darthe because that the optimal path at this point (kill a scum or kill a negative towny role).... but i think we could wait a day with this high number of players to make that move (and i m not the only one)... so u do the very same thing that u are accusing me of... voting for someone other then darthe on the first day....

 

Sooooo much wrong with this short post.

 

Bold: That isn't what I said at all when I fos'd you. I said Darthe was a perfect backup lynch, but that we should still pressure who we thought was scum. My point was lynching Darthe represented essentially zero risk for town.

 

Italics: The number of players doesn't really impact the situation like you think at all- the longer you wait, the more of a risk it becomes to lynch a claimed miller) if there have already been a few mislynches). Town was actually in it's best spot to test Darthe's claim D1. I think Err wasn't even really thinking this reasoning thru, he was just using it as a way of trying to look like he was contributing while also setting up future mislynches.

 

Underlined: That isn't at ALL what I accused Err of doing. I never said everyone should def be voting Darthe, and I have no clue where he got this from. Misrep much?

 

ok... i am traveling today... so dont know if i will be able to check in by the time of deadline... but here is what i have to say...

 

Golden if a towny could be a great asset..... i would not prefer voting him out in day 1 without any solid reason... 

 

i dont know why me mentioning a possibility of GF in the game is suspicious... this is the most probabilistic combination i could come up with.... 

 

Vos and Tglems seems more scummier then the other people on the chopping block at this time.... i would put by vote on Tglems

 

Vote Tglems

 

The "other people on the chopping block" included Theo, so yeahhhhh. Guess who TG was voting at the time, in fact? Yup, Theo. Which makes this vote right here by Err a perfect example of chainsaw defense. He never actually uses Theo's name at all, but says she doesn't seem as scummy as Vos or TG. Err also fails to include reasoning for WHY Vos and TG looked scummier, or why TG was more deserving of a vote then Theo or GE. Big ping right here.

 

Krakalakachin being NKed could be a good thing.... i had no idea where he stood

 

More likely a logic fail instead of a scumslip or anything- but yeah it's actually not great when a NK gives town no info. The potential scumslip right here could in fact be that he knew why the scum killed Krak: because NO ONE had any idea where he stood.

 

17 hours to go.... we definately lynch Theo..... but i would like to wait till lets say T-3 hours to do that..... that would give more time to go through theos posts and her interaction with others..... Luciena could also use that time to catch up.

 

Unvote

 

Don't really get why Err thinks we should wait till 3 hours before the deadline, there's no rule that states you can't go through a scummie's posts after they're dead... I think he was more bandwagoning onto AJ's reasoning here. And yet...

 

vote Theo

 

m rereading things too.... but basel is now looking less and less scummy

 

He votes here, WELL before when he said we should lynch her. Small point, but the next point is more important-

 

Basel pretty much got spewed as town from how GE played yesterday. Scum had to try and backtrack as quickly as possible so they wouldn't look like they were pushing the same thing Theo was. Err also says Basel is looking less and less scummy, but doesn't say why...

---

Def more than on Vos, and this wasn't everything really. The biggest standout to me is the setup talk post, and the chainsaw defense of Theo with his vote on TG. Since Theo did get a little bit of early attention, scum would be more likely to subtly defend her instead of do so outright, which is why AJ's defense of her doesn't ping to me as much. Prognosis: fairly strong scum read

[Basel Gill]

Oh no... not like this. Not like this.

 

*dies*

 

[hazelkrs1]

And finally we end on my strongest scum read atm
 
Xthrax iso:
  

Nice to meet y'all. It's my first time here.
 
About the Lyncher thing, what would happen then if both Lynchee and Lyncher are the last 2 left-Draw? Or if the Lyncher dies before the Lynchee

 
The Lyncher talk had already kinda died down, or at least actual gameplay had started, yet X brings discussion back there. Minor ping.
 

Well, I've been going through what everyone said and I feel a certain vibe from what a few have said.
 
Theo- From her earlier post and what she summarized now of her current post
  
It seems what she said was just misconstrued as seeming to be scum. All she said was that Vos appears to be confused, doesn't seem clear of what he appears to be. She doesn't seem to be scummy to me. 
 
Des-First with what looked to me like a random vote on Err, changed all of a sudden to Theo
 

This sucks. Deadline is in a day and a half but I prob won't get time to go into this thoroughly before I crash.

I see I'm the only vote on Err. I take back what I said- voting activity is NOT pleasing me now. We really haven't spread much true pressure around at all

 

Unvote, Vote Theo

 
Why all of a sudden a jump to Theo? If it's for spreading pressure around, there could have been a lot of people you picked. 
 
Vos- Don't know why there was such a huge pressure on him. Maybe to see if he would crack under pressure? Don't feel as though he came out in top but he definitely didn't crack under pressure-and that good. Though voting on Golden, why again? You say that Golden was using vote count as a scum tell, when all I've seen him do is call people out for putting that VC up. And then he's been seen using an aggressive style. Suspicious but nothing much solid really.
 
Err-Everyone jumped up at him right from the beginning, for mentioning a GF. In the possible list of roles Nolder gave in the beginning, a GF was mentioned. Nothing much
 
Tina- 

 

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet. 
 
Err´s mentioning of a GF could be something. I will keep it in mind. Not a reason for a vote yet. 
 
I´m a bit suspicious of Des. His initial case on Vos was bad. As I said, maybe it was just a way of trying to start the game by joining AJ. Then he thinks Vos´s answer looked genuine and unvoted him. But later he says that TG and Vos looks scummier than Golden. Do you think Vos is scummy or not? 
 
Which brings me to Golden. I see that I will have a problem with, what you call, aggressive style. I would rather call it rude style. I totally agree with Darthe´s vote on Golden. I´m trying to see if my dislike of his play style is colouring my thoughts about him but I don´t think I agree with anything he has said so far. 
 
Vote Golden

 
On the what Theo said, yeah but then could be a case of misunderstanding. Err, like I said it may not really be a slip up could just be quoting Nolder. Des, I'm not so suspiscious. True his case on Vos was bad, but he could just be an active Townie scum-hunting. Vos, not really a sure feel. Golden, now that could just be his style. And how exactly are you meaning to agree with Darthe? I would say 50-50 of scum or town.

 
Spends a lot more time in this post defending others instead of saying who seems scummy to him, first ping.
 
Hard defends Theo. Second ping.
 
Defends Vos and Err- two others I have a scum read on. Third ping.
 
Tells Tina he thinks I don't look suspicious, even tho earlier in the same post he interrogates/fos's me for something. Fourth ping.
 
Spends a lot of words without giving many concrete reads on anyone. Big 5th ping.
 

Well out of all the player, only TG feels suspicious and more so after his response to my vote. It could be a mislynch, not saying it's guaranteed that he's scum-also could be the other way around. From what I understand a lot in mafia is not guaranteed unless substaniated by solid proof. 
 
@Darthe and Des Why Err?

 
This came after a post from AJ I think where he asked others to comment on more than one person, X replied that TG was the only one that seemed suspicious. The bolded also looks like scum fluff talk to me- of course it could be a mislynch, as could just about any lynch. Scum will say unnecessary stuff like that more often than town in my experience.
 
Also asks me and Darthe why we're voting Err, he makes kind of a big show out of defending Err for a bit. What about Err gave him such a strong town read that he would defend him so much?
 

A question for all on the Err train, something I've been asking for sometime now-Why Err? Skiming through most of the arguments against Err, I can only find one thing-the fact that he said there could be Godfather. I'm not sure what it said exactly, but he with 13 players he was considering possible set ups. Now in Nolder's post in the beginning of the game, he did mention Godfather as a possible role. Err could've just suggested Godfather from that-need not be an actual slip by him. 
 
What exactly do we get from lynching Err? Knowing if he's scum or not. There's a 50-50% probability of it going either way for him. It could also be a mislynch.
Similarly from TG? We get to know if he's scum or not. For a mislynch-we take the same chance as the Err train is taking.

 
More hardcore defense of Err. Either it's scum trying to defend a teammate, or scum buddying a townie they think they can manipulate. Either way X defends Err WAY too strongly to be town.
 

 

Analyze my train overnight, there are scum to be found. 
 
Basel has been having a scumburst all game, IMO. 
The case on Theo was weak. 
Des isn't doing much reasonable, but he is applying pressure.  town lean
Aj is being completely reasonable and stating fact.
Vos looks scummy with the buddying.
Tina could look scummy with nitpicking, but nothing really stands out.
Darthe is being Darthe, should probably be lynched tomorrow for Miller claim.  GE don't bother to investigate him, it would be a waste.
Yates...?  WBK...?
Krak needs to post.
The case on Err seems a bit weak and the setup talk wasn't much to go on.  I would expect town.
GE...no counter claim.
X looked scummy early on but recent posts are a bit better.

 
And how did I look scummy earlier?

 

 
This was the start of SEVERAL whyme fryme posts.
 

Krak is dead, damn. A night kill from mafia? Or in basic set ups such as this, would their be power roles that can kill someone?
 
Gonna read again too. Might be something that we missed.
 
Welcome Luciena!

 
@ X's reaction to Krak's NK. Acts all oblivious to how it could have come about. Don't buy the oblivious townie routine from him, he hasn't acted like a newbscrub at all this game really.
 

^ Indeed. I had suspicion on Basel as scummy but he has defended himself well. Looks like leaning town
 
Oh, so I'm listed as top scum teammate just cause I defended Theo. Her reasons looked valid at that time so I believe it wasn't a mistake to believe her to be town.
 
Just look at the italics part-Acc. to you people who have defended Theo could be scum. And there wasn't a greater defender than you. You yourself say I defended her somewhat and then you majorly. So you by your own theory should be major scum here and most likely her teammate. You say that you look bad, and then go on to say we who have defended Theo in lesser degrees are more scummier. Please tell how that logic works
 
And sensible thing to do would have been to vote Theo after Golden gave her a read as scum since he claims to be a cop. After your huge post, you instead proceeded to unvote but not place your vote their. Like Tina said, what could we gain by not lynching her? First we lynch the scum we suspect highly then go for her unknown teammate.
 
I'm gonna vote Theo 'cause of the read by the cop and reading back she seems scummier. But I suspect you to be her other teammate. We'll see that after this lynch.

 
This came right after that post of Err's I quoted last post where he backtracked off of Basel, bolded was following along with that. X says Basel defended himself well- makes no mention of the fact that someone with a guilty result on them was pushing the case on Basel.
 
The rest of the post is bad whyme fryme. Thinks AJ should be lynched for defending Theo, not him. Vurrrrrry defensive feel there too.
 

Well, you say so. How am I doubted if I defended myself the same way others did ?

 
Moar whyme fryme. "How am I scummy for doing the same thing this person did?" is an awful defense, and one used a WHOLE lot more by newbscum than anyone else.
 
To be clear since I'm using this term a lot and he might not know what it means (unless his teammates told him on QT): Whyme Fryme

Over the last few pages X is showing probably one of the best examples I have ever seen of this scumtell. He is obviously more concerned with defending himself than he is with actually trying to find scum. This is because he is scum. That much is obvious to me. Prognosis: Vote Xthrax.

[hazelkrs1]

Damn Basel is dead. Him being VT agrees with what I thought after the reread.

 

Bahahahaha X even gave us another "Awh shucks! They killed a townie!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lynch this turkey

[Nolder]

Votecount

Xthrax - Des (1)

 

With 9 players alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[nervositee]

Thea: flipped scum. I have a firm scum read on her because of that.

 

 

 

Wow, Sherlock Holmes over here! 

 

-

 

Des, I'm not sure how to read your cases on me this game. You seem like you insist on misreading me and claiming me scum this game. Your entire case on me has been put to rest, and you agreed my explanation held up, unvoted and read me more town. Then after a couple of pages you keep dragging it up. Making me suspicious if you read me as scum, town or if you saw a town player fumbling a bit in the start and decided to set him up for an easy mislynch later. 

[GoldeneyesND]

 

Thea: flipped scum. I have a firm scum read on her because of that.

 

 

 

Wow, Sherlock Holmes over here! 

 

-

 

Des, I'm not sure how to read your cases on me this game. You seem like you insist on misreading me and claiming me scum this game. Your entire case on me has been put to rest, and you agreed my explanation held up, unvoted and read me more town. Then after a couple of pages you keep dragging it up. Making me suspicious if you read me as scum, town or if you saw a town player fumbling a bit in the start and decided to set him up for an easy mislynch later. 

 

 

Dude. You won't take this in the spirit it's intended, but you need to give it a rest. Your gameplay has NOT been strong and people are free to call you out on it. You keep claiming misrepping by EVERYONE. If everyone is misreading you, perhaps you are not communicating your statements in a clear and concise manner? You post ambiguous reads and then back away from the reads you do post. The people who have you classified as town have you there because they believe you are SO all over the place, that scum would not possibly play as erratically as you. 

[GoldeneyesND]

Xthrax- can we get some reads from you? How do you respond to Des' case against you?

Tina- Same

 

I have town reads on exactly 3 people in this game. The rest are up in the air. So for my town reads - AJ, Darthe, Des - Could I get some setup talk from you? I'm trying to decide if there really is a GF in this game specifically. It helps that you're all experienced players.

[Darthe]

It amuses me that the game where I play less and claim miller is the one where I get town read pretty consistently.  I will get some info going but for now I enjoyed Des's case on X.

[nervositee]

 

 

Thea: flipped scum. I have a firm scum read on her because of that.

 

 

 

Wow, Sherlock Holmes over here! 

 

-

 

Des, I'm not sure how to read your cases on me this game. You seem like you insist on misreading me and claiming me scum this game. Your entire case on me has been put to rest, and you agreed my explanation held up, unvoted and read me more town. Then after a couple of pages you keep dragging it up. Making me suspicious if you read me as scum, town or if you saw a town player fumbling a bit in the start and decided to set him up for an easy mislynch later. 

 

 

Dude. You won't take this in the spirit it's intended, but you need to give it a rest. Your gameplay has NOT been strong and people are free to call you out on it. You keep claiming misrepping by EVERYONE. If everyone is misreading you, perhaps you are not communicating your statements in a clear and concise manner? You post ambiguous reads and then back away from the reads you do post. The people who have you classified as town have you there because they believe you are SO all over the place, that scum would not possibly play as erratically as you. 

 

 

I do take it like it's intended, no sweat. You are of course free to criticize my play, it's been a learning-curve game for sure, and I'm interested in improving, so yeah, please do. But I still think you also need to learn how to formulate your critique so it reads as such, not as personal crap-throwing. (Like this post!)

 

But eyh, I think we can agree not to go down that rabbit-hole again, distracted too much gameplay already. 

 

However, I don't think you understood quite what I meant. I agree with all your posts, I played a bad early game. I have already stated that. What I meant with my comment to Des was that this has already been discussed. And I got the impression he (and everyone) took my point and my explanation. So I was questioning why he suddenly brought it up again now. 

 

First he ISO my first few posts that we by now has established and agreed was poor play.

He ignores the second half of my posts where I explained this and what I've tried to contribute

Then he adds my interactions made me look better. But I still had a lot of fluff and alot of defending (which was mainly our little spat). So scum read. 

 

This was all just a bit too selective and vague to read like a proper case at this point. 

 

Kinda busy today but I'll be around later tonight. Nolder: We got a deadline?

[Andrej]

@GE - I don't personally think there will be one. GF is a particularly strong scum role and having a miller likely suggests a weakened scum team. Plus having multiple utility roles in the same game could be sort of damaging depending on how it played out. GF essentially guarantees end-game for scum and miller is a free mislynch in generic terms based on cop viewings alone.

 

I liked Despo's point on Err regarding his vote on TG. I didn't like it then and now seeing Theo flip as scum it looks worse considering she was one of the counter wagons. Sorta ticked I missed that on my read through looking for connections

 

I think it might be time to start considering lynching the miller. GE if you cleared someone last night that'll narrow down the pool of suspects today we should lynch from. Your GF question makes me assume you got a good result on someone.

 

vote Err

[Xthrax]

Xthrax- can we get some reads from you? How do you respond to Des' case against you?

Tina- Same

 

I have town reads on exactly 3 people in this game. The rest are up in the air. So for my town reads - AJ, Darthe, Des - Could I get some setup talk from you? I'm trying to decide if there really is a GF in this game specifically. It helps that you're all experienced players.

 

Ah my bad, I was out with family and didn't actually see this until I just came back.

 

 

And finally we end on my strongest scum read atm

 

Xthrax iso:

  

Nice to meet y'all. It's my first time here.

 

About the Lyncher thing, what would happen then if both Lynchee and Lyncher are the last 2 left-Draw? Or if the Lyncher dies before the Lynchee

 

The Lyncher talk had already kinda died down, or at least actual gameplay had started, yet X brings discussion back there. Minor ping.

 

Well, I've been going through what everyone said and I feel a certain vibe from what a few have said.

 

Theo- From her earlier post and what she summarized now of her current post

  

It seems what she said was just misconstrued as seeming to be scum. All she said was that Vos appears to be confused, doesn't seem clear of what he appears to be. She doesn't seem to be scummy to me. 

 

Des-First with what looked to me like a random vote on Err, changed all of a sudden to Theo

 

This sucks. Deadline is in a day and a half but I prob won't get time to go into this thoroughly before I crash.

 

I see I'm the only vote on Err. I take back what I said- voting activity is NOT pleasing me now. We really haven't spread much true pressure around at all

 

Unvote, Vote Theo

 

Why all of a sudden a jump to Theo? If it's for spreading pressure around, there could have been a lot of people you picked. 

 

Vos- Don't know why there was such a huge pressure on him. Maybe to see if he would crack under pressure? Don't feel as though he came out in top but he definitely didn't crack under pressure-and that good. Though voting on Golden, why again? You say that Golden was using vote count as a scum tell, when all I've seen him do is call people out for putting that VC up. And then he's been seen using an aggressive style. Suspicious but nothing much solid really.

 

Err-Everyone jumped up at him right from the beginning, for mentioning a GF. In the possible list of roles Nolder gave in the beginning, a GF was mentioned. Nothing much

 

Tina- 

 

 

The funny thing about Theo is that she did the same thing as Vos. Pointing out he is going in two directions while she is doing the same. I didn´t understand the initial pressure on Vos. Maybe it was because there was not much to comment on? I don´t know what to make of Theo´s comment. I kind of agree with Basel that it looked like she said that Vos was scummy but still got a town read on him. Maybe she just didn´t explain herself very good? Still weird that she hasn´t voted yet. 

 

Err´s mentioning of a GF could be something. I will keep it in mind. Not a reason for a vote yet. 

 

I´m a bit suspicious of Des. His initial case on Vos was bad. As I said, maybe it was just a way of trying to start the game by joining AJ. Then he thinks Vos´s answer looked genuine and unvoted him. But later he says that TG and Vos looks scummier than Golden. Do you think Vos is scummy or not? 

 

Which brings me to Golden. I see that I will have a problem with, what you call, aggressive style. I would rather call it rude style. I totally agree with Darthe´s vote on Golden. I´m trying to see if my dislike of his play style is colouring my thoughts about him but I don´t think I agree with anything he has said so far. 

 

Vote Golden

 

On the what Theo said, yeah but then could be a case of misunderstanding. Err, like I said it may not really be a slip up could just be quoting Nolder. Des, I'm not so suspiscious. True his case on Vos was bad, but he could just be an active Townie scum-hunting. Vos, not really a sure feel. Golden, now that could just be his style. And how exactly are you meaning to agree with Darthe? I would say 50-50 of scum or town.

 

Spends a lot more time in this post defending others instead of saying who seems scummy to him, first ping.

 

Hard defends Theo. Second ping.

 

Defends Vos and Err- two others I have a scum read on. Third ping.

 

Tells Tina he thinks I don't look suspicious, even tho earlier in the same post he interrogates/fos's me for something. Fourth ping.

 

Spends a lot of words without giving many concrete reads on anyone. Big 5th ping.

 

Well out of all the player, only TG feels suspicious and more so after his response to my vote. It could be a mislynch, not saying it's guaranteed that he's scum-also could be the other way around. From what I understand a lot in mafia is not guaranteed unless substaniated by solid proof. 

 

@Darthe and Des Why Err?

 

This came after a post from AJ I think where he asked others to comment on more than one person, X replied that TG was the only one that seemed suspicious. The bolded also looks like scum fluff talk to me- of course it could be a mislynch, as could just about any lynch. Scum will say unnecessary stuff like that more often than town in my experience.

 

Also asks me and Darthe why we're voting Err, he makes kind of a big show out of defending Err for a bit. What about Err gave him such a strong town read that he would defend him so much?

 

A question for all on the Err train, something I've been asking for sometime now-Why Err? Skiming through most of the arguments against Err, I can only find one thing-the fact that he said there could be Godfather. I'm not sure what it said exactly, but he with 13 players he was considering possible set ups. Now in Nolder's post in the beginning of the game, he did mention Godfather as a possible role. Err could've just suggested Godfather from that-need not be an actual slip by him. 

 

What exactly do we get from lynching Err? Knowing if he's scum or not. There's a 50-50% probability of it going either way for him. It could also be a mislynch.

Similarly from TG? We get to know if he's scum or not. For a mislynch-we take the same chance as the Err train is taking.

 

More hardcore defense of Err. Either it's scum trying to defend a teammate, or scum buddying a townie they think they can manipulate. Either way X defends Err WAY too strongly to be town.

 

 

Analyze my train overnight, there are scum to be found. 

 

Basel has been having a scumburst all game, IMO. 

The case on Theo was weak. 

Des isn't doing much reasonable, but he is applying pressure.  town lean

Aj is being completely reasonable and stating fact.

Vos looks scummy with the buddying.

Tina could look scummy with nitpicking, but nothing really stands out.

Darthe is being Darthe, should probably be lynched tomorrow for Miller claim.  GE don't bother to investigate him, it would be a waste.

Yates...?  WBK...?

Krak needs to post.

The case on Err seems a bit weak and the setup talk wasn't much to go on.  I would expect town.

GE...no counter claim.

X looked scummy early on but recent posts are a bit better.

 

And how did I look scummy earlier?

 

 

This was the start of SEVERAL whyme fryme posts.

 

Krak is dead, damn. A night kill from mafia? Or in basic set ups such as this, would their be power roles that can kill someone?

 

Gonna read again too. Might be something that we missed.

 

Welcome Luciena!

 

@ X's reaction to Krak's NK. Acts all oblivious to how it could have come about. Don't buy the oblivious townie routine from him, he hasn't acted like a newbscrub at all this game really.

 

^ Indeed. I had suspicion on Basel as scummy but he has defended himself well. Looks like leaning town

 

Oh, so I'm listed as top scum teammate just cause I defended Theo. Her reasons looked valid at that time so I believe it wasn't a mistake to believe her to be town.

 

Just look at the italics part-Acc. to you people who have defended Theo could be scum. And there wasn't a greater defender than you. You yourself say I defended her somewhat and then you majorly. So you by your own theory should be major scum here and most likely her teammate. You say that you look bad, and then go on to say we who have defended Theo in lesser degrees are more scummier. Please tell how that logic works

 

And sensible thing to do would have been to vote Theo after Golden gave her a read as scum since he claims to be a cop. After your huge post, you instead proceeded to unvote but not place your vote their. Like Tina said, what could we gain by not lynching her? First we lynch the scum we suspect highly then go for her unknown teammate.

 

I'm gonna vote Theo 'cause of the read by the cop and reading back she seems scummier. But I suspect you to be her other teammate. We'll see that after this lynch.

 

This came right after that post of Err's I quoted last post where he backtracked off of Basel, bolded was following along with that. X says Basel defended himself well- makes no mention of the fact that someone with a guilty result on them was pushing the case on Basel.

 

The rest of the post is bad whyme fryme. Thinks AJ should be lynched for defending Theo, not him. Vurrrrrry defensive feel there too.

 

Well, you say so. How am I doubted if I defended myself the same way others did ?

 

Moar whyme fryme. "How am I scummy for doing the same thing this person did?" is an awful defense, and one used a WHOLE lot more by newbscum than anyone else.

 

To be clear since I'm using this term a lot and he might not know what it means (unless his teammates told him on QT): Whyme Fryme

 

Over the last few pages X is showing probably one of the best examples I have ever seen of this scumtell. He is obviously more concerned with defending himself than he is with actually trying to find scum. This is because he is scum. That much is obvious to me. Prognosis: Vote Xthrax.

 

Bold-This is my first time playing. I'm aware of the basic roles and few others like Cop, Doc, a Roleblocker etc. So when I saw that something called a Lyncher and a Lynchee was brought up, I didn't know what it was. I've previously before actually starting a game looked through a couple of them. So I assumed that I would get an answer to what a Lyncher and how did the role function. Similarly when Darthe actually brought up Miller, I didn't know what it did and googled to find out. So I wasn't really aware that the discussion 'bout it was over.

 

Italics- If you go through my post throughly, at the end of what I said about each person-I have included a phrase as somewhat suspicious or not clear or doesn't seem scummy.

 

At that time it didn't seem like Theo was scummy to me. It wasn't just me who defended Theo, there were quite some others who did too-so I guess she did feel town at that point.

 

I didn't particularly feel that Vos or Err were scummy then. Err could have made a scum slip withe post about GF, but there is benefit of doubt I have accorded everybody and that could mean that he maybe town. Vos's statements are indeed ambiguous, but nothing pinged for me at that time

 

I did tell Tina, but what I said was not so suspicious meaning there was still some doubt about what alignment you appeared to be. I didn't fos you at that time, instead just asked why pick Theo at that time? I was asking you what made you suspect her. Or are you just putting pressure about to see if they crack? Or is it for some other reason?

 

Looking at that post, at that time I was giving an opinion on what I thought how everyone looked then. At the end of everything, I did mention whether they seemed scummy or not.

 

Underlined-TG at that time did seem suspicious to me. I just stated what were the 2 probabilities that could happen. Didn't intend to throw around any fluff and still believe I didn't.

I didn't say I got a town read from Err. I fyou look at the post that you referenced above(the bold part)you can see that I said nothing much on my read about Err. Also refer, the above for why I don't suspect him that much. 

 

Green-No one till then had responded to my earlier question of Why Err, so I asked it again. Its true I defended Err, but not any hardcore defense as I see it, just what I've been saying repeated all over. And it's neither of the possibilites you've given. Instead just a townie asking why him and stating that it will be the same result as if we lynch TG i.e; know if he's scum.

 

Orange-I understood what you meant by whyme-fryme posts now from the link you gave. TG said that I looked scummy earlier, but now it's better. He didn't exactly give a reason on how he found me scummy-just a statement. Now if someone says that you seem scum, you give the reasons you had for posting what you did and what you meant by it. You defend yourself, not wait there for the lynch to come. As a result I did so too, asking him why I was suspected earlier. Many in this game have defended themselves when called scummy-initially Golden did when he was called so, Err did it at one point, TG did and so did AJ when I suspected. Even you have given a reason counteracting why people have suspected you. 

 

Violet-Well I believe my reaction to Krak's death was justified. If he'd have been alive he could've participated and helped us towards finding scum, so his death is a loss for town. And I did wonder how it could've come about. Do note that it's my first game, so haven't played before and don't know the various set ups possible. After googling online after my initial confusion about Lyncher and Miller and read about various roles. There were some roles mentioned who could also kill in the night other than the mafia's collective night kill such as vigilante's who's kills were distinguishable from the mafia's kill. So I had a doubt whether that could be the case here.

 

Gray-After Tina asking Basel why he didn't participate in the discussion much and also after a few posts from him, he seemed to have defended his stance well and thus appeared to be Town.

 

You say the rest of the post is bad whyme fryme. AJ stated that everyone who had defended Theo could be a suspect as to being in mafia. He says in his post that he had defended her majorly and I somewhat giving him the greater degree of defense.

 

Now by this logic the one who had greatly supported her should be more scummier. So I raised the question of why the rest of us but not him seemed scummy because by that logic we all were scummy.

 

He later in his post & stated that as part of his reasoning for defending Theo, she didn't seem scummy then, he didn't know her alignment and lastly he did so as a townie hunting scum.

 

In response to this I later posted that just like him, I also thought her to be town, didn't know her alignment until Golden investigated her and defended her as I was a townie hunting scum. This should also partly provide answer to you second ping on me.

 

Bold Blue-This post was in your response to your one that that I seemed to have spewed as scum. you said there that my above 3 post seemed very whyme fryme to you. If you do look above you'll see my explanation of what you say is whyme fryme. I was just asking what seemed scummy about my post? Why do you claim that my defense is a tactic used by newbscum-it could just as easily be someone defending themselves from an alleged suspicion of scum. 

 

I do defend myself. Wouldn't a townie wrongly accused of being scum defend themselves when called scum? I have twice submitted my conclusions from scum hunting, those were the reads about other.

 

 

Damn Basel is dead. Him being VT agrees with what I thought after the reread.

 

Bahahahaha X even gave us another "Awh shucks! They killed a townie!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lynch this turkey

 

 

Man this post is getting long.

 

Blue italics-Again refer my explanation to your suspicion about my reaction to Krak's death. Basel was a townie who could've helped us catch scum if he hadn't been killed. Ergo, its a loss for town. This is what I was saying. Not 'Aw shucks, they killed a townie'. That's in no way what I said.

 

Turkey, really 

[GoldeneyesND]

However, I don't think you understood quite what I meant. I agree with all your posts, I played a bad early game. I have already stated that. What I meant with my comment to Des was that this has already been discussed. And I got the impression he (and everyone) took my point and my explanation. So I was questioning why he suddenly brought it up again now. 

 

First he ISO my first few posts that we by now has established and agreed was poor play.

He ignores the second half of my posts where I explained this and what I've tried to contribute

Then he adds my interactions made me look better. But I still had a lot of fluff and alot of defending (which was mainly our little spat). So scum read. 

 

This was all just a bit too selective and vague to read like a proper case at this point. 

 

Kinda busy today but I'll be around later tonight. Nolder: We got a deadline?

 

I understand your point here. Just be aware that when people haven't gotten any new information, they often fall back to looking at the people they found scummy at the beginning. There's never really a point in this game where people get "over" what you've said earlier. The only way to really be cleared is a cop view. Even then, people who have been arguing with you can sometimes still claim you're a godfather even after all that. So, I wouldn't be so quick to fos based on someone not letting things go in a game.

 

@GE - I don't personally think there will be one. GF is a particularly strong scum role and having a miller likely suggests a weakened scum team. Plus having multiple utility roles in the same game could be sort of damaging depending on how it played out. GF essentially guarantees end-game for scum and miller is a free mislynch in generic terms based on cop viewings alone.

 

I liked Despo's point on Err regarding his vote on TG. I didn't like it then and now seeing Theo flip as scum it looks worse considering she was one of the counter wagons. Sorta ticked I missed that on my read through looking for connections

 

I think it might be time to start considering lynching the miller. GE if you cleared someone last night that'll narrow down the pool of suspects today we should lynch from. Your GF question makes me assume you got a good result on someone.

 

vote Err

 

Ok, so you're saying miller makes it unlikely there's a GF because miller is essentially an anti-town role to begin with. Then again, I don't believe they have an RB and I find it unlikely that they have no power roles at all. We lynched a goon already. So what roles could mafia have?

[Andrej]

 

@GE - I don't personally think there will be one. GF is a particularly strong scum role and having a miller likely suggests a weakened scum team. Plus having multiple utility roles in the same game could be sort of damaging depending on how it played out. GF essentially guarantees end-game for scum and miller is a free mislynch in generic terms based on cop viewings alone.

 

I liked Despo's point on Err regarding his vote on TG. I didn't like it then and now seeing Theo flip as scum it looks worse considering she was one of the counter wagons. Sorta ticked I missed that on my read through looking for connections

 

I think it might be time to start considering lynching the miller. GE if you cleared someone last night that'll narrow down the pool of suspects today we should lynch from. Your GF question makes me assume you got a good result on someone.

 

vote Err

 

Ok, so you're saying miller makes it unlikely there's a GF because miller is essentially an anti-town role to begin with. Then again, I don't believe they have an RB and I find it unlikely that they have no power roles at all. We lynched a goon already. So what roles could mafia have?

 

The 2 games I've hosted had both scum teams without PRs, so it's not at all unlikely. I agree that there isn't a RBer on their side or else they'd just block you. The other roles listed as potential Town/Mafia were Watcher and Tracker. I don't find either of these likely just based on their dynamic. If a Watcher was present they could've just watched you N1 to see who used a power on you, essentially finding out who the Doc was, and they would've killed them N2. A Tracker would be a little harder to pin but they could track you to see who you viewed. Might be worth sitting back and seeing who avoids whoever you viewed the previous Night. The other Mafia-only roles were GF and Framer. Both of these are alignment altering. The Framer can select a player and if that player is viewed that Night they would show up guilty. So essentially it's like giving the scum team another free mislynch atop of the miller role. I can't really see it personally.

 

So yeah, at this point it's probably safer to assume that there isn't a GF. 9/10 town (1 cop, 1 doc, 1 miller, 6/7 VTs) vs 3 goons (vs 1 3rd party) looks pretty balanced to me. The doc directly counters the mafia NK and the miller would play in well to the scum's lack of view defense. Also, 3rd party would view opposite of town so there's that as well, which potentially provides 5 guilty views in a pool of 12 players. So yeah, scum wouldn't really need much more than that IMO. A larger pool of guilty views sort of helps them blend in to the cop, if that makes sense.

[Niniel]

I have been away the whole day. I will read up tomorrow. 

[Nolder]

Votecount

Xthrax - Des (1)

Err - Andrej (1) 

 

 

With 9 players alive it takes 5 to lynch.

 

Deadline: Monday (Time TBD)

[Luciena]

Okay guys and Gals..... (I just realised it's just me and Tina as girlies here  :D)

 

 1. Andrej

 

Has a level head on his shoulders, seems pretty relaxed ( for a daddy with an almost one year old Dawww , and with school taking up his time, bless his cotton socks :D ) even when he got some flak he managed to explain himself admirably I felt. So far leaning towards town.

2. Tina

 

Some very short posts, very abrupt, votes some random people, Des, Xthrax, Basel. Seems a bit flighty. One to watch more perhaps?

 

3. Darthe –Miller…. Still not sure what this entails precisely but I get the gist of it (sort of)

4.  Luciena – Adorable :D

5. nervositee- Seems a bit all over the place at the beginning, then his game picks up, not really sure where I stand with him. Has some very good solid posts, but even some where he goes back and forth, trying to show his perspective.  On the fence where he is concerned.

6. Xthrax-  Sensible, good analytical skills. However I feel like he is being a bit too defensive of his interactions with Theodora? Just a feeling though so not sure how much I can attribute that to him being team mates with her or just him being new to the game? Or just him being confused? No idea what to think on him… though as Des pointed out those last posts didn't do him any favours either  :/

7. Err- He got mostly more pressure from people for his  first couple of posts namely post #75, it looked like he got most of the votes because of that alone. I thought it was mainly someone just trying to figure out the game in their own right. Leaning town

8. Despothera- Des is hopping, like a little bunny, hop, hop, hop. Goes from Basel, to Tina, and only votes Theo because GE revealed his reading.  Des seems flighty too kinda like Tina. 

( we still like ya though Des, no offence :) )

 

9. Goldeneyes- Claimed Cop, pretty sure almost confirmed now as cop since there are no counterclaims.  So town on him. (obviously)

 

(Be nice to the lawyer people. Who knows when you might need one? :D)

[Luciena]

P.S GE sorry about the deadline mishap. I wanted to know if I had enough time to post before deadline when I came home from work next day.

 

Also wanted to add was pretty much unable to log in for a long while due to the website being down/ cloudflare. So sorry about that.

[Babar Hasan Khan]

Next up on the trio is Err, who has been somewhat in the spotlight as well

 

Err iso:

 

 

 

Oh and Vote Theodora cause she's obviously scum

 

ya... theo... i am keeping my on you too pretty close this time !!!!!

 

Early jokey interaction with Theo. At first I assumed this to be a reference to another game where Theo was scum and fooled Err, but on reread this could have been one of those tongue in cheek scum to scum comments you'll occasionally see early in games

 

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

 

 

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

 

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

 

The infamous post that got him in so much heat... I still think the last bit is scummier honestly. The setup talk isn't good, but he's stood by his reasoning that setup talk is fine (spoiler alert: It's NOT, at least not early in games when town doesn't have much info yet). The end of the post stinked to me then, and still does however. Don't get at all how he thinks it would be considered a "desperate situation" to have to lynch a claimed Miller, just don't get that at all. Moreover it looks more like he was trying to secure a mislynch in one of the following days.

 

 

Eh, I'll cut you some slack for now. That response seemed genuine.

 

Unvote, Vote Err

 

so let me get this right..... u think we should all lynch Darthe because that the optimal path at this point (kill a scum or kill a negative towny role).... but i think we could wait a day with this high number of players to make that move (and i m not the only one)... so u do the very same thing that u are accusing me of... voting for someone other then darthe on the first day....

 

Sooooo much wrong with this short post.

 

Bold: That isn't what I said at all when I fos'd you. I said Darthe was a perfect backup lynch, but that we should still pressure who we thought was scum. My point was lynching Darthe represented essentially zero risk for town.

 

Italics: The number of players doesn't really impact the situation like you think at all- the longer you wait, the more of a risk it becomes to lynch a claimed miller) if there have already been a few mislynches). Town was actually in it's best spot to test Darthe's claim D1. I think Err wasn't even really thinking this reasoning thru, he was just using it as a way of trying to look like he was contributing while also setting up future mislynches.

 

Underlined: That isn't at ALL what I accused Err of doing. I never said everyone should def be voting Darthe, and I have no clue where he got this from. Misrep much?

 

ok... i am traveling today... so dont know if i will be able to check in by the time of deadline... but here is what i have to say...

 

Golden if a towny could be a great asset..... i would not prefer voting him out in day 1 without any solid reason... 

 

i dont know why me mentioning a possibility of GF in the game is suspicious... this is the most probabilistic combination i could come up with.... 

 

Vos and Tglems seems more scummier then the other people on the chopping block at this time.... i would put by vote on Tglems

 

Vote Tglems

 

The "other people on the chopping block" included Theo, so yeahhhhh. Guess who TG was voting at the time, in fact? Yup, Theo. Which makes this vote right here by Err a perfect example of chainsaw defense. He never actually uses Theo's name at all, but says she doesn't seem as scummy as Vos or TG. Err also fails to include reasoning for WHY Vos and TG looked scummier, or why TG was more deserving of a vote then Theo or GE. Big ping right here.

 

Krakalakachin being NKed could be a good thing.... i had no idea where he stood

 

More likely a logic fail instead of a scumslip or anything- but yeah it's actually not great when a NK gives town no info. The potential scumslip right here could in fact be that he knew why the scum killed Krak: because NO ONE had any idea where he stood.

 

17 hours to go.... we definately lynch Theo..... but i would like to wait till lets say T-3 hours to do that..... that would give more time to go through theos posts and her interaction with others..... Luciena could also use that time to catch up.

 

Unvote

 

Don't really get why Err thinks we should wait till 3 hours before the deadline, there's no rule that states you can't go through a scummie's posts after they're dead... I think he was more bandwagoning onto AJ's reasoning here. And yet...

 

vote Theo

 

m rereading things too.... but basel is now looking less and less scummy

 

He votes here, WELL before when he said we should lynch her. Small point, but the next point is more important-

 

Basel pretty much got spewed as town from how GE played yesterday. Scum had to try and backtrack as quickly as possible so they wouldn't look like they were pushing the same thing Theo was. Err also says Basel is looking less and less scummy, but doesn't say why...

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Def more than on Vos, and this wasn't everything really. The biggest standout to me is the setup talk post, and the chainsaw defense of Theo with his vote on TG. Since Theo did get a little bit of early attention, scum would be more likely to subtly defend her instead of do so outright, which is why AJ's defense of her doesn't ping to me as much. Prognosis: fairly strong scum read

 

ok.... as i said before i am not surprised that youare suspecting me not because i am a scum but because there seems to be a buildup in your train of thought till this point. so let me try and answer as much as i can:

 

1. i said i would keep my eye on theo in the beginning of the game but she didnt stand out that much as a scum not until golden reveled it. not that scummy compared to other things that were going on.

 

2. in response to You: The setup talk isn't good, but he's stood by his reasoning that setup talk is fine (spoiler alert: It's NOT, at least not early in games when town doesn't have much info yet

 

Even tough it was early in the game I did think we had enough info to go on to start talking about it. let me walk you through.... We already had a miller claim. if we believed him then its logical we would have an inspector (a miller without an inspector would be useless wouldnt u agree??)..... if there is an inspector then it would be logical to have a doctor (an inspector after reveling a single scum read would dye otherwise)..... with 13 people optimal number of scums is square root of the total number of players (rounded down if there is an inspector) that makes 3 scums.... i guessed 2 mafia and 1 godfather..... i dont know y would u think there was not enough information to start making such a guess list from the possible list of players available.

 

3. in response to You: Don't get at all how he thinks it would be considered a "desperate situation" to have to lynch a claimed Miller, just don't get that at all.

 

then you go and answer it your self for me in the very same post YOU: The number of players doesn't really impact the situation like you think at all- the longer you wait, the more of a risk it becomes to lynch a claimed miller) if there have already been a few mislynches) 

i agree and this is what i would call a "desperate situation"

 

4. in response to 

 

ME: u think we should all lynch Darthe because that the optimal path at this point (kill a scum or kill a negative towny role) but i think we could wait a day with this high number of players to make that move (and i m not the only one)... so u do the very same thing that u are accusing me of... voting for someone other then darthe on the first day....

You: That isn't what I said at all when I fos'd you. I said Darthe was a perfect backup lynch, but that we should still pressure who we thought was scum

YOU: That isn't at ALL what I accused Err of doing. I never said everyone should def be voting Darthe, and I have no clue where he got this from. Misrep much?

 

here i didnt say that is what u said when u fos'd me..... u said that in post # 80

YOU: We wouldn't be lynching a claimed Miller "out of desperation" on Day 1, we'd do so because that's a great safe lynch for town on D1. Best case scenario, we catch scum. Worst case, we take out a negative utility role. 

 

This is what i meant that you thought that the optimal path is to lynch the miller but voted for Vos and then me after the miller claim was out.

 

then you say it again in this very same post YOU:Town was actually in it's best spot to test Darthe's claim D1

 

5. in response to 

You: The "other people on the chopping block" included Theo, so yeahhhhh. Guess who TG was voting at the time, in fact? Yup, Theo. Which makes this vote right here by Err a perfect example of chainsaw defense. He never actually uses Theo's name at all, but says she doesn't seem as scummy as Vos or TG. Err also fails to include reasoning for WHY Vos and TG looked scummier, or why TG was more deserving of a vote then Theo or GE. Big ping right here.

 

let me remind u of the vote count at the time i posted that Golden (4) Theo (2) TG(2) vos (1).... at this point it i was also expecting AJ to vote for Golden because the way he was defending people that Golden was attacking.... and i said that while voting Golden if a towny could be a great asset..... i would not prefer voting him out in day 1 without any solid reason so that leaves the next two on the "chopping block" Theo and TG..... as i said before i did not suspect Theo until later when Golden reveled her as mafia. I thought at that point vos and TG were both scummier and since i would be traveling to check in before the deadline i voted for TG.... but do u know what happened when Theo had 3 votes and golden 4 votes.... u jumped off Theo train and voted for tina and the only thing u said while switching the vote was Well let's get this started then..... i could ask u the same thing now..... y didnt u give any solid reasoning for changing ur vote from now a confirmed mafia to Tina??? why did u think tina was more scummier then Theo????

 

6. in response to 

ME: Krakalakachin being NKed could be a good thing.... i had no idea where he stood

YOU: More likely a logic fail instead of a scumslip or anything- but yeah it's actually not great when a NK gives town no info. The potential scumslip right here could in fact be that he knew why the scum killed Krak: because NO ONE had any idea where he stood.

 

i still disagree with all that has happened.... if i were a mafia... i would start killing off the people who are contributing the most instead of contributing the least.... logic behind it would be to keep the uninformed majority uninformed

 

7. in response to

YOU: Don't really get why Err thinks we should wait till 3 hours before the deadline, there's no rule that states you can't go through a scummie's posts after they're dead... I think he was more bandwagoning onto AJ's reasoning here. And yet...

 

really u had NO idea why i was saying that??? when i give u the reason in the post u responded to

ME: that would give more time to go through theos posts and her interaction with others..... Luciena could also use that time to catch up.

 

8. in response to after me voting theo

 

ME: basel is now looking less and less scummy

YOU: He votes here, WELL before when he said we should lynch her

 

yes i voted for her T-6 hours before the deadline instead of T-3 hours.... it was because i was traveling again....

 

9. in response to

YOU:Basel pretty much got spewed as town from how GE played yesterday. Scum had to try and backtrack as quickly as possible so they wouldn't look like they were pushing the same thing Theo was. Err also says Basel is looking less and less scummy, but doesn't say why

 

i specifically commented on basel being less and less scummy because a day before he was on my scum list. and after theo was confirmed as a mafia which i was not expecting i had to rethink basels scumminess after remembering Theo and Basel were slightly against each other.