[Discussion]: The Black Tower in A Memory of Light

[Niniel]

Finally! This is the discussion that I have been waiting for since I finished AMoL. I love to hear what you thought about it and what you think will happen after the Last Battle. Did you favourite character survive? Were your theories right? What will happen to the Black Tower now? 

 

This is the third discussion on the same topic. In [August Discussion]: The Black Tower in and after AMoL  we shared our hopes and theories. In Continued discussion...  we discussed the Prologue and Chapter 1 and 2, which were released some time before the whole book. If you wrote in those theads, go back and see if you were right about your predictions. :D

 

The focus on this discussion will of course be the Black Tower, the asha´mans and Rand. But feel free to comment on whatever you want to. This is not the discussion board so we know how to behave and show each other respect. :p

 

 

Talking about the discussion board... I´m happy to introduce our guest mod - the one and only Barid Bel Medar! I guess you all know Barid - he is after all the WoT Discussion Admin. His job is to silence all the trollocs that find their ways into the discussion boards. :D Barid has been reading WoT since 2007. He found Eye of the Word: From the Two Rivers in the school library while looking for a short series to read (!). To his surpise and annoyance , there were no real ending and he had to continue with the next book. Like all of us, he got hooked. He has now read the whole series at least ten times. 

 

Barid´s favourite book is Fires of Heaven. He likes all the great interactions between characters: Rand - Asmodean, Rand - Lanfear, Rand - Moiraine, Rand - the Aiel etc. One of his favourite scenes is when Moiraine sacrifies herself. Barid´s favourite characters are Rand, Nynaeve and... Demandred. (Didn´t see that one coming, did you? :D) His favourite Asha´man is Narishma. I must quote Barid´s reason, because I think it´s beautifully written:

 

"My favourite Asha'man is Narishma. I love his fiery loyalty to Rand. He was the one entrusted with Callandor, and one of the Asha'man that showed the best of the men of the Black Tower. Others have more influence, power or fame, but to me Narishma is the essence of the Black Tower. He watched and learned from Rand, stood by him through the worst and truly served the Dragon and the world without the need for glory or grand ideas. He is almost an image of the old Aes Sedai - Servants of All. "

 

The WoT finally brought Barid to DM in 2010. He posted a lot in the WoT discussion forum and were also active in the Social Groups. (Barid actually hangs on the Deserter´s Tree!) After a while he became moderator and now he is the boss of all WoT discussions. :D

 

 

So,  please welcome Barid and discuss! (But let Barid post first! I bet he has some great info and questions for us.)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Thanks for such a lovely introduction! 

 

Well, I'll keep it relatively simple first up. 

 

Since you guys have some info on me, I'd like to ask a few questions myself. 

 

What do you love about the Black Tower?

 

Who is your favourite Asha'man and why? 

[Niniel]

There are a lot of things that I love about the Black Tower. People find their ways there even though they will probably go mad and die soon. It´s a place where the outcasts can come to do something useful. A place where their lives can get a purpose. Everything about the BT is new. There has never been a BT before, and that is why old rules and mores don´t work. All the things that have been impossible is in fact possible in the BT. New weaves, new bonds, new ways to look at the world. Rand had great plans for the BT but then he abandoned it. Luckily, other asha´mans stepped up and managed to make BT into a force of power that didn´t need Rand. Now when I write this I come to think that it´s like the Creator who creates the world and then stop interact with it. Rand did the same with the BT, even though it wasn´t his intention. He created it, left it, but it managed to take care of itselves anyway. 

 

Taim and the dreadlords are of course what made the BT chapters extra exciting to read. It would not have been the same without the evil element. I think Taim was a great character, until the last book. 

 

 

Favourite asha´mans:

 

My favourite has always been Narishma and I think you described him in a good way. I wish that he had gotten more time in AMoL. I  liked Androl, even though I think he got a too big role in the end. I loved reading about his relationship with Pevara. I love the way Sanderson wrote Logain in AMoL. He was almost broken but then he managed to do the right thing in the end. One of my favourite lines from AMoL is "The Black Tower protects." I still get chills everytime I read it. I had Sanderson sign my copy with those words. It was the words that showed that Logain had made the right choice and that the BT had become something else than a weapon. I asked Sanderson if he liked writing Logan at the signing at JordanCon. He said that he did and that he thought that Jordan always had intended Logan to become darker before the end. It´s amazing how he managed to outlive stilling and the attemptions to turn him. Taim has never been one of my favourite characters but the BT would have been boring without him. He was one of the mysterious characters that I wanted to know more about all the time. 

 

I guess I will have to come back to this when we start our discussion. 

[Basel Gill]

My favorite character overall was Mat and I eas glad to see him survive. But that was heavily canceled out by the fact that Fail (NOT A TYPO) survived. And my namesake wasn't even in AMOL aside from one vision the DO sent Rand. A false vision as it turned out. As for the BT, I think that it will evolve into a benevolent organization with a charitable branch to keep the protective bit going. Logain will at some point send someone back to get the angreal that Taim was wielding lest it fall into the wrong hands.

 

My favorite Ashaman would be Androl. This is just because I love gateways. He came up with so many interesting things to do with them.

[csarmi]

That better be a typo Basel!

[csarmi]

I don't remember much of AMOL.

 

It's all fuzzy to me... most of the time I could hardly get myself to concentrate enough. So I don't even know what happened to most of the characters.

 

I liked the healer guy and Androl.

[Niniel]

Healer guy = Flinn? 

[csarmi]

I suppose so.

[dicetosser1]

the BT didnt really hook me until the later books tho i really liked the scene where Fedwinn Morr was "protecting" Min. I found that whole thing of "something in the wine" very poignant.

 

My fav ashaman would be Jahar Narishma  closely followed by Damer Flinn and Eben Hopwil.

 

I too liked androl but i do think he wasn't used right...he should have been ordered to just gateway demis head off or something.

[Leyrann]

There were some inconsistencies with Androl and his gateways (why not do the same as he did at Cairhien again?), but for the rest I really liked him.

 

What I love of the Black Tower, I don't really know. I think it's mostly because I'm a man and I like magic, and that means Black Tower. I do really love Dragonmount's Black Tower a lot though.

 

About what will happen to the Black Tower after AMoL, I would say, that the Black Tower will be the first to take up the old Aes Sedai way of living again, after the last scenes with Logain (who will most likely be the new leader of the Black Tower), and that they will in pretty short time be seen as an organization that is always willing to lend a hand for a good cause, after which the Aes Sedai will most likely follow. And I think it will grow even faster now that it is becoming known that the Taint is cleansed and with all the boys wanting to throw fire and lightning, just because it's epic.

[Panchi]

What do I like about Black Tower is that there is a chance for men who can channel to have something of a meaningful life before they die. Before Black Tower, many men did not know they can learn to channel and those who had inborn ability were gentled but gentling takes away the will to live. Many those who are part of Black Tower know they would die but still the struggle to make whatever life they can. Also, I liked that Rand is not the only man to channel who is being allowed non-gentling. I liked how in aMoL near the end, Logain saves this boy and his mother says that she will send him to be tested when he is older. Black Tower had became a symbol of hope.

 

Favourite Asha'man is Narishma. He has been one of those characters who might not be as central to the story as others but somehow I like them as they are. Androl, I liked in ToM and aMoL. And Logain, as said earlier Black Tower had become a symbol of hope and Logain who would have frightened people earlier, now showed how Black Tower is not all evil as Taim almost made it.

[dicetosser1]

i wouldn't want Logain leading now. Hes too off balance. Id actually pick Androl but get him to train Narishma.

 

 

BTW did we ever find out wjat that "he shall follow after" stuff was about Callandor?

[Leyrann]

I'd expect Logain to have become a lot more stable with that last scene.

[Niniel]

Okay. That was just a little intro. I think Barid will post some questions for us. 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Indeed I have some questions. I wanted to give people a chance to reply so I didn't drone on too much myself. 

 

First up, a few more questions of a more serious nature then some wacky ones to round it off. 

 

As some of you may know, Brandon Sanderson has said post-aMoL that the Black and White Towers will not be combined, nor will they return to being the Aes Sedai like the Age of Legends, at least in the new age. 

 

So, with that in mind - What do you think the Black Tower's role in the future will be? 

 

- What do you expect the relationship with the Seanchan will be? - assuming the future seen by Aviendha has changed. The Black Tower is on a whole other level to the Seanchan than the White. Of course, things don't change overnight, so I suppose this question is about the long term effects of the Black Tower on the Seanchan and vice versa. 

 

- How do you think the Black and White Towers will interact in the future? 

 

- If you were an Asha'man, what kind of weaves would you try to create? 

 

- What is the thing you want to see most happen to the Black Tower? (learn how to create Ter'angreal? Become Guardian's of the Peace? Anything you can think of!)

[Niniel]

Oh, interesting questions. Will get back after work. 

[dicetosser1]

Indeed I have some questions. I wanted to give people a chance to reply so I didn't drone on too much myself. 

 

First up, a few more questions of a more serious nature then some wacky ones to round it off. 

 

As some of you may know, Brandon Sanderson has said post-aMoL that the Black and White Towers will not be combined, nor will they return to being the Aes Sedai like the Age of Legends, at least in the new age. 

 

So, with that in mind - What do you think the Black Tower's role in the future will be? 

 

- What do you expect the relationship with the Seanchan will be? - assuming the future seen by Aviendha has changed. The Black Tower is on a whole other level to the Seanchan than the White. Of course, things don't change overnight, so I suppose this question is about the long term effects of the Black Tower on the Seanchan and vice versa. 

 

- How do you think the Black and White Towers will interact in the future? 

 

- If you were an Asha'man, what kind of weaves would you try to create? 

 

- What is the thing you want to see most happen to the Black Tower? (learn how to create Ter'angreal? Become Guardian's of the Peace? Anything you can think of!)

 

 

1)  I have the feeling the Black Tower would be much more    ordinary people   oriented. They'd have to just for PR reasons but also i think they wont want to be like the White Tower who are so aloof.  Wont be surprised if they help the aiel police things either

 

2) I think Cadsuane will be open to having BT in the loop of decisions but i think the normal AS will be resistant. Something like opposing schools would result...competition between the two with a small percentage being friends

 

3)  I think Tuon will hire them to sort out the mess back in Seanchan

 

4) kinda answered this already

 

5) Flying. Nym creation

 

6) definetly interested in Ter'angreal. I want to seem them working with the common people

[Niniel]

I loved that the BT and the asha´man (both Rand´s and Taim´s) were a big part of the last book. They were really  important for the last battle. As I said before, I love how Sanderson wrote Logain. They almost managed to break him. He had already been captured by the Aes Sedai and stilled. He joined the BT where Taim thought of him as an enemy and Rand was treating him very badly. It´s amazing that he managed to resist the turning. Still, it almost broke him. All he could think of was to get power enough so that no one could do anything to him again. I think Sanderson did a great job showing his darker side. When he is almost lost, Androl manage to convince him to save all those people and suddenly he is a hero instead. It was up to him to break the seals. Now that he has survived all this I imagine that he will be a good leader for the BT. 

 

I really wish Narishma would have gotten a bigger role. Androl is a great character but he was just too much. Narishma could have gotten a bigger role instead. Love the Androl-Pevara story though. I also wish that Flinn would have been mentioned more.

 

Taim´s story wasn´t very good. In the beginning he is suddenly a new Chosen but then he doesn´t do much. It´s obvious how weak he is compared to Demandred and Moridin. I guess it was fitting that it ended up being a fight between him and Egwene but it was not something that I had guessed before. 

 

Indeed I have some questions. I wanted to give people a chance to reply so I didn't drone on too much myself. 

 

First up, a few more questions of a more serious nature then some wacky ones to round it off. 

 

As some of you may know, Brandon Sanderson has said post-aMoL that the Black and White Towers will not be combined, nor will they return to being the Aes Sedai like the Age of Legends, at least in the new age. 

 

So, with that in mind - What do you think the Black Tower's role in the future will be? 

 

- What do you expect the relationship with the Seanchan will be? - assuming the future seen by Aviendha has changed. The Black Tower is on a whole other level to the Seanchan than the White. Of course, things don't change overnight, so I suppose this question is about the long term effects of the Black Tower on the Seanchan and vice versa. 

 

- How do you think the Black and White Towers will interact in the future? 

 

- If you were an Asha'man, what kind of weaves would you try to create? 

 

- What is the thing you want to see most happen to the Black Tower? (learn how to create Ter'angreal? Become Guardian's of the Peace? Anything you can think of!)

 

1. Black Tower´s role... The people that have already been tainted will die and there will be a BT without the taint. People will learn to trust the asha´mans and the BT will grow since people don´t burn out or die early. I think that they will initially help rebuild a lot that have been destroyed. They could be another neutral power with people from all countries joining. (I wonder what the male Aiel chanellers will do? Will they become Wise Ones or join the BT?) I´m not sure about their role in the future though. 

 

2. Their relationship with the WT will be complicated. Aes Sedai has bonded Asha´mans and I guess some of them will be more as channeling warders. I don´t think the WT will get over that Asha´mans can bond Aes Sedai though. I think that they are too set in their old ways. Some Aes Sedai will probably choose to live in the BT. I guess that some bonded couples will travel on their own and choose to not live in either tower. I´m sure that some Aes Sedai will try to force the BT to accept the same rules as the WT but Logain would not agree to that. Cadsuane will probably be a good Amyrlin to start with but we don´t know who comes next.

 

3. BT and the Seanchan... I doubt that Tuon want to leave the male Seanchan channelers to the BT. The question is if she can keep killing them. Will she have male sul´dams or damanes? Hm... If there should be a new war between the Seanchan and Randland then the BT would be a good help for the Aiel. I don´t that will happen for a long time though. 

 

4. Can´t think of anything right now. 

 

5. I want them to be there for the ordinary people. Maybe travel around and help build up places again. Be another power besides the WT and the Seanchan. Help balance things in the world. Maybe they could build a new tower in the blight and see to it that it continues to change and hunt down left over shadowspawn. It would be fitting since the DO tried to take over the BT but instead the BT would take over the DO´s lands. It would also be good for them to get out of Andor. As long as they live there Elayne will always want to have an eye on them. 

[Turin Turambar]

So, with that in mind - What do you think the Black Tower's role in the future will be? 

 

- What do you expect the relationship with the Seanchan will be? - assuming the future seen by Aviendha has changed. The Black Tower is on a whole other level to the Seanchan than the White. Of course, things don't change overnight, so I suppose this question is about the long term effects of the Black Tower on the Seanchan and vice versa. 

 

- How do you think the Black and White Towers will interact in the future? 

 

- If you were an Asha'man, what kind of weaves would you try to create? 

 

- What is the thing you want to see most happen to the Black Tower? (learn how to create Ter'angreal? Become Guardian's of the Peace? Anything you can think of!)

 

 I see the BT as the special forces of Randland. There channelling combat skills would be needed in small theatres of battle. I can also see them as the rebuilders of infastructure. Possibly in coordination with the Ogier. utilizing the power to create structures both beautiful and practical.

 

The BT will be one of the nuclear deterrents to the possible second wave of Seanchan attacks against the "wetlanders". (ell once the Seanchan sort out their conflicts in Seandar. I don't see the seanchan allowing their male channellers to be taught in the BT. they might try to steal an Asha'Man or two and convince them to teach. or they could just continue to kill them and try to suppress the cleansing.

 

Relations will be frosty between the towers for some time to come. The bondings done by both sides will rankle the other I think. And also the Aes Sedai have not really had to deal with many on equal terms for so long it will take some time for them to get used to the thought I think. I could see in time more bonded pairs that would go out into the world and work together, but they would not become the ordinary for some time.

 

there would be loads of different types of weaves. practical for logistics and ways to strengthen materials for construction. Military to ensure that they are ready to handle future situations. theoretical to help gain a better understanding of the power and how it can be utilized. Oh and Flying cause so cool...

 

I want to see the Asha'Man rebuild the world. As a flip to their breaking it before when Saidin was first tainted. To have them continue to become more than weapons. Creating a better world from the ashes of battle.

[Niniel]

I also have a picture in my head where asha´mans and ogiers work side by side. :)

[Niniel]

I had hoped for more discussion. Well, well...

 

Thank you, Barid! If you ever wish to return to the BT, you know where you will find us. :p

 

 

10 points to everyone.