[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day02#07

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Nolder -> Hally

02 - Cloud: -> Krak

03 - Krak: ->

04 - GoldenEyes

05 - TommyRod: -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Via -> NULL

07 - Theodora Key: -> Krak -> NULL

08 - Elffern: -> Krak

09 - Hally: -> Elf

10 - BFG: ->

11 - Via: ->

12 - Nolder: -> Peace

13 - BlackHoof: -> Nolder -> Hally

14 - Turin

 

 

 

Krak - 2 - Cloud, Elf

Hally - 3 - Tommy, Hoof, Peace

Peace - 1 - Nolder

Elf - 1 - Hally

 

Not voting: Krak, Key, BFG, Via

7 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-01-07, 06:00GMT

Countdown: Timer: End of D2

[Leelou]

Sorry, thought I posted this yesterday. The only thing that really stuck out when going back and reading Peace was how he said Hallia never voted Goldy when she did earlier in the game. I keep going back and forth about him so he's back in my null pile. 

[_CLOUD]

 

Yes, and it appears that I'm doing an exceptionally poor job at it too.

Remind me what* your case is?

 

 

- She isn't actively scumhunting

- She isn't giving her reads

- She only comments on the details

- She had that weird interaction with Golden

 

 

I have played a couple of times with Via before and she is definitely a better player than this. I think she just isn't as good at being mafia as she is town.

 

 

 

## vote Nolder

 

If Nol flips town then I will start looking your way Tom, you seemed to be tunneling on him lately

 

This was vote #6 on Nolder.  Normally a good place to bus...but his attached comment causes some doubt.  Looks like he knows Nolder is town and wants to set up Tommy when Nolder would flip.

 

 

## vote Nolder

 

If Nol flips town then I will start looking your way Tom, you seemed to be tunneling on him lately

 

What are you even saying here? Not only have I *not* been tunneling on him, but I just myself expressed doubt about this wagon since it's got a pretty big majority for D1. You'll notice my vote's not on him.

 

Seriously, wtf. 

 

 

Tommy's reaction here makes it look like a true WTF moment. 

 

So, given this.  I had Nolder as 9 on a 10 scale as likely scum.  I'll dial that down to about a 6 with 5 being neutral.

 

 

I don't see how you could have missed that post from Golden about Nolder and Tom when it has been mentioned several times by a couple of players (I for example kept bringing it up when I posted my reads). You failed to push Nolder's lynch forward and now you all of a sudden conventiently discovered that post? And after all that casing you did about him too? I'm not buying it.

[keyholder21]

Baby is not feeling well and is ornery today (won't take his naps, for example), so I don't know how much time I'll get to look at stuff today. If/when he goes down I will try. If not, I will definitely look into Hallia and Via tomorrow morning so I can see how I feel about the cases on them. Also want to look at Hoof. I'm back at work tomorrow, so I'll have more time (funnily enough).

[BFG]

 

The thread title threw me off. I hadn't realized we were in Day 1 til I saw the thread had gained like a million pages already. Looks like a pissing contest already? Tommy is slightly obnoxious, but I saw a preview of that in his secret circle game. I think between his and Turin's post lengths I'm going to go put on my glasses. Town reads on both. Cloud appears to be coming out a little more aggressively, but he's been lynched Day 1 in several recent games, so I'm not sure if that's a meta change or just an effort to survive Day 1, something Blackhoof seems to not be doing at all. Leaning scum on Cloud. I'm getting a townie vibe from Leelou, always Null on Peace at this point, I admit to have a hard time reading him. Nothing else as far as early reads go. I'll be around tomorrow night most likely, but probably not for the rest of the day. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates, or whatever your end of the year holiday happens to be.

 

 

H'ok, 11 pages in and I agree with the first part of Gend (GoldeneyesND MUAAHAHAHA)  regarding the pissing contest, and Tommy, and Turin.  I actually disagree regarding Cloud.  While still active, he doesn't seem as aggravated as he tends to be in lots of games, which gets him lynched early.  But it's still Christmas Eve as far as I've read.  Going back in.

 

 

Ok, still working on rereading Day 1.

 

This post sticks out as well.  this is pretty much the only thing she comments on catching up, I'm not sure she'd pick something from a mafia teammate to be the only thing to comment on if they were team mates.

[BFG]

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace:  The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town.  advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things.  Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean  
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete. 
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean. 
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

 

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou. 

 

Town: BFG, Turin. 

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good  Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.  

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch."  I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug.  To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

A>1.) I am certain that I am town. I know this because it says so in my role PM. You don't have access to my role PM so you obviously don't know this=> I stated it. of course it still means nothing because I could well be lying. But it is a fact I am aware of and so included it in my thoughts list.

A>2.)  BFG is mod confirmed as town.

 

 That these are the only two names I have as town is because IMO it is too dang early to have enough of a read on anyone to say they are town. your methodology may differ. That is fine. 

 

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part. 

 

C.) Why is it so difficult to understand that Nolder can be wrong for saying what he said( basically that it was too early to push hard to actually lynch anyone) and Cloud can be eager to get through the day(asking for a deadline, cheerleading lynches without making further cases) The fact that Nolder uses a weak argument to try to make his case is a slight ping. As ou know mafia will make a bad case on a teammate so that it can be worked out and then they both look reasonable. Sort of like Cloud and Elf. 

 

D.) Not really. Or if it worked the target was weak. Without the willingness or at least the appearance of the willingness to follow through with the lynch of the target, "pressuring for reactions" amounts to going through the motions. Posturing. You can think that you did it but that don't make it so.

 

But I am willing to hear what everyone thinks about that topic. I encourage everyone to state your opinion. Can you apply real pressure if you are not willing to lynch someone for whatever it is you seek to apply pressure for(or at least make the person think that you are willing to lynch them)?

 

 

Bolded the bits that stand out to me.

 

Turin has some good points here.  I haven't seen anything from Turin that implies he thought I was anything but Town.  Given Goldens flip it's also strange that this is the uncertain read he asks about (see Hallia, Theo & Krak who he also has uncertain reads on)

[Elaevia]

Am re-reading from the start, am on about page 25 so far, so a good 10 pages to read till the end of the day

 

Leelou - she was pinging quite a bit to begin with: lots of jokey / spammy posts that didn't add anything to the game, apart from a bit of back and forth with nolder: no comenting on the other stuff that was going on. her reads she did on page 21 bring it back to a null at this point.

 

The whole elf-on-peace and cloud-on-elf seems to have gone on for longer than they needed to, but I put this down to not very many people being about over christmas

 

Then I noticed this

 

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera)

Self conscious opening in #29. I have no idea what he's saying in #65, looks spammy. Comes back in #208 after a long absence and reads both me and Turin as town and makes some reads with little to no justification. Could be actually busy and not mentally invested, but ping anyway. More christmas wishes in #227; sick of that stuff, lol. Talk about the damn GAME! Elf vote in #277 feels pretty random; I agree that Elf isn't hunting, but that's mostly due to defending against Cloud. She should get more involved from here on out.

 

 This pinged abit because it ends with a comment abit elf, instead of concentrating on golden. I looked at it again when I re-read this.

 

 

Your vote's been on Golden for a while, right? About half the game now, in terms of posts. I'm surprised you haven't moved onto something else considering he hasn't said much, if anything, since you attacked him... for voting Elf, right? Yet you've had your own suspicions of Elf? Is that not what you're accusing Theo of doing?

 

I felt it was a bit of a wishy-washy read (particularly the bit I've bolded - it seems a half hearted ping) then the prompt for peace to move his vote from golden. I beleive that this is how the vote count looked at the point Tommy posted this: Golden with most votes and leelou saying that she oule be comfortable voting him as well.

 

Elf - 1 - Golden
Peace - 1 - Hoof
Golden - 3 - BFG, Peace, Thea
Hoof - 1 -  Tommy
Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou

Turin - 1 - Cloud

 

 

Edit: I ungreened the vote count, so it isn't confused with a current vote count

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace:  The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town.  advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things.  Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean  
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete. 
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean. 
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

 

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou. 

 

Town: BFG, Turin. 

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good  Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.  

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch."  I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug.  To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

A>1.) I am certain that I am town. I know this because it says so in my role PM. You don't have access to my role PM so you obviously don't know this=> I stated it. of course it still means nothing because I could well be lying. But it is a fact I am aware of and so included it in my thoughts list.

A>2.)  BFG is mod confirmed as town.

 

 That these are the only two names I have as town is because IMO it is too dang early to have enough of a read on anyone to say they are town. your methodology may differ. That is fine. 

 

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part. 

 

C.) Why is it so difficult to understand that Nolder can be wrong for saying what he said( basically that it was too early to push hard to actually lynch anyone) and Cloud can be eager to get through the day(asking for a deadline, cheerleading lynches without making further cases) The fact that Nolder uses a weak argument to try to make his case is a slight ping. As ou know mafia will make a bad case on a teammate so that it can be worked out and then they both look reasonable. Sort of like Cloud and Elf. 

 

D.) Not really. Or if it worked the target was weak. Without the willingness or at least the appearance of the willingness to follow through with the lynch of the target, "pressuring for reactions" amounts to going through the motions. Posturing. You can think that you did it but that don't make it so.

 

But I am willing to hear what everyone thinks about that topic. I encourage everyone to state your opinion. Can you apply real pressure if you are not willing to lynch someone for whatever it is you seek to apply pressure for(or at least make the person think that you are willing to lynch them)?

 

 

Bolded the bits that stand out to me.

 

Turin has some good points here.  I haven't seen anything from Turin that implies he thought I was anything but Town.  Given Goldens flip it's also strange that this is the uncertain read he asks about (see Hallia, Theo & Krak who he also has uncertain reads on)

 

 

Why in the world would Turin think you were anything but town?

 

*Edit: Oh, I see, you were referring to my post within the post.  I misread Turin and was nitpicking because I wanted to push him and thought his phrasing sounded weird.  I believe it was Via who called me out on switching two words around and she was right, so I threw it away.

[BFG]

##vote nolder still got 3 pages of reread left so this is subject to change (probably to Turin if that's the case by the looks of it ... gah , no words for those posts) I'll expand more on folder later, but, basically posts so fluffy you could sell them at a carnival amongst other things. But in case I fall asleep or something le vote.

 

This stands out, it moves her vote off Golden and puts the trains (Golden & Nolder) at 3 each, although I do agree with the reason for voting Nolder.  It's also one of her 'I'm catching up posts'

[BFG]

@Krak - why did you pick up on Turins read of Golden, over Hallia, Theo or yours? Considering that they're all fairly similar.

[peacesells]

 

I don't see how you could have missed that post from Golden about Nolder and Tom when it has been mentioned several times by a couple of players (I for example kept bringing it up when I posted my reads). You failed to push Nolder's lynch forward and now you all of a sudden conventiently discovered that post? And after all that casing you did about him too? I'm not buying it.

 

 

Cause I was in a Flue stupor for 5 days. 

[BFG]

 

##vote nolder still got 3 pages of reread left so this is subject to change (probably to Turin if that's the case by the looks of it ... gah , no words for those posts) I'll expand more on folder later, but, basically posts so fluffy you could sell them at a carnival amongst other things. But in case I fall asleep or something le vote.

 

This stands out, it moves her vote off Golden and puts the trains (Golden & Nolder) at 3 each, although I do agree with the reason for voting Nolder.  It's also one of her 'I'm catching up posts'

 

Missed a vote somewhere Golden's at 4 after the unvote

 

edited - misread a name.  Elf wasn't voting Golden prior to this.  But makes it stand out more, why was it suddenly so important to vote Nolder?

[Elaevia]

Am now at the end of Day 1.

 

what stood out most to me was that Nolder was one vote from being lynched about 3 hours from deadline - not to the wire but not exactly lots of time till the end of the day either.

 

Then Tommy moved his vote to Golden, putting him at 5 votes with Nolder at 7 (8 to lynch). For this I gave him metaphorical 'town points' for this, because it put Golden in the running for being lynched.  However  then Tommy posted this:

 

 

The fact someone hasn't hammered yet makes me feel good about this.

 

Why?

 

 

I'd expect scum to quickly mobilize on a town wagon. If it's a scum wagon and it's obviously not going to change, I'd expect scum to hammer before a townie does to get town cred. If it's a scum wagon and there's a chance it'll change, they won't hammer.

 

 

This gives me bad feelings about Nolder and Tommy: Tommy had the chance to hammer Nolder, secure a lynch well before deadline but didn't, and gave the lynch 'a chance to change'.

 

Then came votes on to Theo and Krak, before we finaly got enough votes to lynch Golden.

 

 

will move on to day 2 tomorrow

[Krakalakachkn]

ISO on Hallia:

 

 

 

 

 

The thread title threw me off. I hadn't realized we were in Day 1 til I saw the thread had gained like a million pages already. Looks like a pissing contest already? Tommy is slightly obnoxious, but I saw a preview of that in his secret circle game. I think between his and Turin's post lengths I'm going to go put on my glasses. Town reads on both. Cloud appears to be coming out a little more aggressively, but he's been lynched Day 1 in several recent games, so I'm not sure if that's a meta change or just an effort to survive Day 1, something Blackhoof seems to not be doing at all. Leaning scum on Cloud. I'm getting a townie vibe from Leelou, always Null on Peace at this point, I admit to have a hard time reading him. Nothing else as far as early reads go. I'll be around tomorrow night most likely, but probably not for the rest of the day. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates, or whatever your end of the year holiday happens to be.

 

 

H'ok, 11 pages in and I agree with the first part of Gend (GoldeneyesND MUAAHAHAHA)  regarding the pissing contest, and Tommy, and Turin.  I actually disagree regarding Cloud.  While still active, he doesn't seem as aggravated as he tends to be in lots of games, which gets him lynched early.  But it's still Christmas Eve as far as I've read.  Going back in.

 

 

Hallia's first content post of the game.  Agrees with Golden regarding the pissing contest which in and of itself means nothing.  She just agrees there's a pissing contest.  Null.

 

Then she disagrees with Golden's read on Cloud as scum.  Could be she knows Cloud is town and wants to put distance between her reads and Golden's.  Except that her read isn't really a read, just more of a statement that Cloud isn't as twitchy as he has been in the past.  Not sure how that qualifies as a town tell.  Scum lean.

 

 

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

LMAO

 

 

 

O.o I don't see how you think Turin's attitude has been aggressive.  He makes good points, and he's not being all sassy about it.  Methinks you're trying to cast an evil light upon him

 

 

Her next post she defends Turin against Cloud and FoS's Cloud - quite the turnaround from one day prior.  Buddies known town.  Slight scum lean.

 

 

 

this isn't debate club. 

 

 

This stuck out.  (Yes, I'm reading the thread backwards to catch up)

 

Er...yes, I agree with several other people, it's kind of the whole point. 

 

Calls Peace out on this post and says tha tit "stuck out," but fails to provide a read on it or Peace.  Slight scum lean.

 

 

 

You didn't misrepresent anything I said because as far as you were concerned I hadn't said anything, that's where the misrepresentation is.

This was a mistake on your part, anyone can make mistakes, that's fine.

You are saying though that you didn't search out what posts I made before you did your option post - as it happened I posted more which would have given you something to comment on about me. You didn't search and you didn't notice that my post count in the thread has gone up.

There is a difference between saying 'Via has had only one post so no opinion on her yet' and 'I don't think Via has added anything to the game and her opinions don't matter to me'.

Now that you've dismissed a players options because they picked you up on an error you made, town has some information to work on, now or in the future.

As I say, anyone can make a mistake, that's not a real issue. I am surprised by your response and your OMGUS vote though, wasn't expecting such a big response to my comment

 

 

I think Via defended herself well against Golden, and it seems to me he could easily be scum trying to rile people up.

 

##vote Goldeneyes

 

Votes Golden after he goes after Via.  At this point Golden has 3 votes, Hallia had 2, and Golden has started leaning on her.  She's not his strongest scum read or anything.  Nolder has been pushing her for a while and Leelou has parked her vote on her.  Gets some flak from a few people regarding lack of posting, defended by Cloud.  This could easily be distancing between herself and Golden and/or trying to even up the trains.  She hasn't mentioned Via before this point, so her vote reads as pretty forced.  Scummy.

 

 

You're right Turin, it's def. not at all.  It came off to me as snarky and unhelpful.

 

Buddies Turin.

 

 

 

 

You didn't misrepresent anything I said because as far as you were concerned I hadn't said anything, that's where the misrepresentation is.

This was a mistake on your part, anyone can make mistakes, that's fine.

You are saying though that you didn't search out what posts I made before you did your option post - as it happened I posted more which would have given you something to comment on about me. You didn't search and you didn't notice that my post count in the thread has gone up.

There is a difference between saying 'Via has had only one post so no opinion on her yet' and 'I don't think Via has added anything to the game and her opinions don't matter to me'.

Now that you've dismissed a players options because they picked you up on an error you made, town has some information to work on, now or in the future.

As I say, anyone can make a mistake, that's not a real issue. I am surprised by your response and your OMGUS vote though, wasn't expecting such a big response to my comment

 

 

I think Via defended herself well against Golden, and it seems to me he could easily be scum trying to rile people up.

 

##vote Goldeneyes

 

 

 

Obviously I don't have the time right now to read some of the massive posts some people have made but rest assured when I get to them you'll hate me because I'll just be spamming the thread with catchup. Ketchup? Anyway...

 

I see Hallia hasn't voted anyone yet. Has she even posted since I voted?

I don't want to bury my vote over non participating because it's a null tell but I'm reluctant to vote people who are participating without better reads on them.

Eh whatever. Sorry but this is the best I can manage right now. Next week you'll probably be sick of how much I'm posting but for now you'll have to settle for this.

 

 

I posted this before you wrote that, did you skim past it?

 

 

 

Hrm, looking back, I thought maybe we'd posted at the same time and you'd missed it, but there was a 10 minute gap in between.  

 

 

##Vote Nolder

 

This looks good as it takes her vote off Golden, but looks like an OMGUS vote against the person that is really putting pressure on her, so it's a null.

 

 

Yates wants me to respond to this:
 

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.
Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

This really applies to Leelou as well - Since when does Hallia not posting=Hallia-scum? How many times have we been burnt on this? Why do you think I wanted to mentor her in the first place? 



And now I'm angry at you all for making me agree with _Cloud's assessment:

So the question that looms now is simply; are you scum trying to lynch a lurker slot or are you simply being lazy, as _Cloud alleges? /Yates

 

 

This was my first real contact with Yatezorz, he's been travelling, so I wasn't the only person 'lurking' 

 

This was just weird and it's hard to take much from it because it appears she was directly quoting Yates.  The only thing that hits me is that she didn't take the time to put it into her own words or give her own read on it, which tells me she was truly worried about the heat on her and didn't want to screw up a response. To me that's a scum read.

 

Yates also wants me to address this:
 

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates)

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53.

"This is Hally. Ask everyone. When she doesn't know what else to say she sees something shiny and lulzy to comment on and 'contributes' that way. It has always bothered me as it shows a lack of focus. We're working on it. /Yates out"

 Same thing.

 

 

 

 

None of that is remotely scummy though. Personally, I don't blame you for not being able to read it yourself, but you can't expect people to do it for you. You find the time, wait until you have the time, or post uninformed.

 

The deadline is like, today. Stop wasting time.

I never said it was scummy.

It's not about scummy it's about proper gameplay and covering all the bases.

It's like if a newbie claimed doctor and then later said they lied.

You don't let that person live no matter how sincere they may seem.

It has nothing to do with their gameplay at that point, it's just the safest course of action.

It's the same thing here. Obviously it's not about scummy play because there is no play to asses, scummy or not.

And that is exactly the point. If we can't tell if someone is scummy or not they need to go because we need to be able to read them.

 

As for finding time and not wasting time I don't really have in the first place.

Lol ok I'll get right on that. 

 

 

 

So if that course of action (say they were just vt, and drew the nightkill)  saved the real doctor, it wouldn't be a good thing?

 

Her response here is weird to me and totally philosophical.  She's not talking about herself, just mafia theory as she hasn't claimed.  I'm not saying that I agree with Nolder's point, it's just Hallia's response is bothersome.  Almost looks like she's trying to derail the conversation on her and turn it into one on theory and gameplay.  Scum.

 

 

[Krakalakachkn]

Continued:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What're your reasons for wanting Krak lynched Cloud?

 

It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though.

 

 

 

You make a good point, and since we've been talking, I'm feeling a lot better about Nol.  I'm down for giving it a shot.

 

##unvote

 

##unvote Krak

 

Let's Cloud do her scumhunting for her.  I use that term generally because (and I hate to say this) I'm town.  So instead of going back to voting Golden who she actually had a reason to vote for before switching to Nolder, she follows Cloud onto me.

 

 

Golden's still on my list of scum, I'll give him a little bit to get in here before hammer.

 

She even says that he's on her scum list.

 

 

 

 

 

There's a lot of votes on Nolder. If he flips town we should go after Hallie. 

 

I don't like this post. Why would Hallia be scum if Nolder flips town? It sounds like you are trying to set up lynches.

 

Nolder - 7 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof, Cloud, Leelou, Golden

 

Because if he's town, then a few probable townies now have a scum read on Hallia: Leelou, Nolder, myself. The wagon on Nolder went a little too smoothly, IMO. BFG (confirmed town) started it, another probable townie (Elf) got on, and then some grays/scum leans piled on it. Hallie, Hoof... Golden being on the end of that wagon seals the deal in my mind that Nolder is town (assuming Golden is mafia, which his low activity, weird interaction with Via, and behavior just now leads me to believe). Interactions-based reads can change a lot based on new info. 

 

I'm also uncomfortable with it because high scum suspects (Krak, Turin) aren't on the wagon.

 

I'm not on his anymore?  

 

I think it's telling that even though she hopped off Nolder before Tommy posted this that he still calls her out on her placement in the Nolder train.  It was a bad place to be and it looks like scum was trying to get Nolder lynched pretty heavily - wouldn't be surprised to find 2 or even three(unlikely) scum on that train.

 

 

 

Vindicated - To justify or prove the worth of, especially in light of later developments.

I had that scummy feeling on him and I was right XD

Regarding flipflopping - I don't find it scummy, I mean people's opinions change, and I'd rather change my opinion if my mind does change than cling to something I might feel is wrong.

 

After Golden's flip she claims she felt vindicated.  I'm gonna say that she should in no way feel vindicated by him flipping scum.  She was voting me and if she truly felt he was scum (as town) she would have placed her vote on him instead of me.  She then tries to defend flip-flopping and, regarding the bolded, her argument doesn't jive at all with her earlier votes on Golden.  So clinging to Golden would have felt wrong?  Then why did you say that he was scummy and you felt vindicated?  I think this was a major slip.  Strong scum.

 

 

I'm not quite sure what else you want me to say.  For the early part of Day 1 I was gone, because of being on call at work, and when you miss 40 pages, I feel bad rehashing a whole lot of stuff when someone else made a post that was pretty spot on for how I felt ( which that Golden post did sadly v.v) so let's move forward and focus on what's going on now 

 

Another slip, wants everyone to ignore her earlier play and focus on moving forward.  Scum read.

 

 

Peace said I never voted Golden.  See below

 

VoteCount Day01#12

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden
02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin
03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof
04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via
05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder
06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally
07 - Theodora: -> Golden
08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL
09 - Hally: -> Golden
10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder
11 - Via: -> Golden
12 - Nolder: -> Hally
13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace
14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL

Peace - 1 - Hoof
Golden - 4 - Peace, Thea, Via, Hally
Hoof - 1 - Krak
Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou
Turin - 1 - Cloud
Nolder - 2 - BFG, Tommy
Via - 1 - Golden

Not voting: Elf, Turin
8 to lynch.
Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT
Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

 

Ok..finally out of the sick bed and back at work.  I'll be able to post more now. 

 

A few things on recent stuffage.

 

Nolder introduces set up talk.  Not only that he goes into a long explanation on various possibilities and only names me as a possible "3rd party."  2 things wrong with this.  Setup talk is a distraction.  Classic DM scum move that was perfected in the "GOT" game.   2nd, naming only 1 person as possibility makes it look like he was trying very hard to come up with a way to make someone (me) who others have expressed a town feel for look bad.  

 

On Hally, even her most recent post above mine addresses nothing game related.  She's posted, but not really taken a stand on anything.  More like cheered from the sidelines. 

 

Nolder and Hally are my 2 biggest suspects atm.  I'm good with either of them dead.

 

##UNVOTE

 

##VOTE HALLY

 

Peace says I never posted anything game related, which also isn't true, so he's either lying on purpose or skimming, both of which I find scummy.

 

Finds Peace scummy but doesn't vote him for it.

 

 

 

 

VoteCount Day01#17

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden
02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden
03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL
04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL -> Nolder
05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally -> Golden
06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally -> Nolder -> Golden
07 - Theodora: -> Golden
08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder -> Golden
09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak
10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder
11 - Via: -> Golden
12 - Nolder: -> Hally -> NULL -> Theo
13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder
14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

Golden - 8 - Peace, Thea, Via, Turin, Tommy, Leelou, Cloud, Elf
Nolder - 3 - BFG, Hoof, Golden
Krak - 1 - Hally
Theo - 1 - Nolder

Not voting: Krak
8 to lynch.
Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT - this is final, no extension will be given
Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

That's a lynch. Scene incoming.

 

 

 

 

I flat-out diagree with most of those accusations of late- you are the one constantly bringing up his setup talk, he hasn't mentioned it in pages. He has been scumhunting recently and posting relevant things.

Also, as cloud said, it is unlikely that both he and golden are scum, given their trains

 

I'm curious about something.  You say it's unlikely they're both scum given their trains, but if he were town (provided the entire scum team wasn't already on Nolder) wouldn't they have just figured out reasons to vote him in order to save one of their own?

 

 

Well, the only confirmed mafia at the moment is golden, who was indeed voting Nolder. Chances are, other scum were voting Nolder as well. The problem for them is that there aren't many of them, and they do not want to give away too much by simply voting for someonw other than a teammate.

 

It is mainly the speed at which Nolder's train built, not necessarily that he was competing with Golden so closely.

 

 

So you thinking then that as the deadline got closer and it looked like GE was going down instead of Nolder there was some bussing?  Elf's hammer was super scummy to me, and also their admitted skimming.

 

##vote Elf

 

This reads pretty bad to me.  She posted intent to hammer, sure, but she goes from not having any problem with Elf's hammer to finding it super scummy with nothing in between, so yeah. 

 

Then Cloud challenges her on it:

 

Why the sudden change of mind about Effie's hammer, Hally?

 

 

And am I the only one here who doesn't view skimming as a scum tell? >.>

 

 

Maybe it's more of a null to scum tell.  I mean sure, everyone does it from time to time, especially when two people spend 3-4 pages in an argument over a technicality, but I think using it as a reason to not post anything (while posting that you're skimming) is kinda scummy.  Like 'I skimmed a few pages, but I don't have time to post any thoughts'  why not just read them, make a note or two on a word pad and when you get to where you have time, post it?

 

 

And she completely ignores the question regarding her vote on Elf.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

##Vote Hallia

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day02#08

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Nolder -> Hally

02 - Cloud: -> Krak

03 - Krak: -> Hally

04 - GoldenEyes

05 - TommyRod: -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Via -> NULL

07 - Theodora Key: -> Krak -> NULL

08 - Elffern: -> Krak

09 - Hally: -> Elf

10 - BFG: ->

11 - Via: ->

12 - Nolder: -> Peace

13 - BlackHoof: -> Nolder -> Hally

14 - Turin

 

 

 

Krak - 2 - Cloud, Elf

Hally - 4 - Tommy, Hoof, Peace, Krak

Peace - 1 - Nolder

Elf - 1 - Hally

 

Not voting: Key, BFG, Via, Leelou

7 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-01-07, 06:00GMT

Countdown: Timer: End of D2

[csarmi]

About 30h left. You guys are getting the next votecount in the morning (night in US time).

[BFG]

I was hoping to have finished my reread, but only up to the end of Day 1.

 

As of this point I have Town Reads on Peace (mostly because he started the Golden train and didn't switch, even though there were a couple of points when he could have without getting to much notice) & Via (a lot of the things she comments on are things that I notice as well, and she's also paying attention (Krak misquoting Turin)). 

 

Leaning Town on Tommy and I like that he's not giving his town views a free ride.  He also pushed the Golden lynch which found mafia.  Unless Nolder ends up flipping with a PR, I think Tommy's clear.

 

Cloud - mixed, on the one hand he questioned a lot of people, on the other he voted an outlier in the run up to deadline, there is more but it mostly comes down to play style, plus stuff that's mostly hashed out already.

 

Elf is pinging, at the moment the majority of what she's posting is defense, and this seems to continue into Day 2, she posted several times in Day 1 that she was catching up, but there were never any actual catch up posts and reads were sparse when given.

 

I'm still finding it very hard to reconcile Nolders play this time round with WD (where he voted me for posting first, Dap for overreacting, Des for a poor unvote - just off the top of my head), his stance on what a vote means seems to have changed and he reacted really badly to Leelous vote.  His vote on Theo at the end was awful, if he's Town then he should do everything in his power to secure a lynch, yet made no apparent effort to do so.  If Nolder flips with a PR than Tommy & Cloud (& to a lesser extent Leelou) look worse

 

Leelou - leaning Town, bit of a strange voting pattern at the end - when she votes Nolder it seems to be consolidation, when she votes Golden she has a reason.

 

I liked Kraks early play but his later seemed strange (need to reread Day 2 in detail)

 

Theo - didn't contribute much, but did vote Golden early, (need to reread Day 2 for Key)

 

Hallia - some of her reactions are odd.  But like I said earlier, I don't see that she's pick Goldens post to respond to if they were team mates. Slight Town for now.

 

Hoof - switch opinions every few posts.

 

Day 2 tomorrow, but at work and can't do much while at work, so will likely be tomorrow evening (GMT).

[Nolder]

BFG have you read my casing of Peace?

I find it hard to believe anyone could find him townie at this point but I know you're not lying here since you're clear.

What gives? Peace himself hasn't bothered to defend against any of my points, instead choosing to ignore them and continue to attack me.

I think if you're going to defend anyone now is the time since Peace seemingly refuses to defend himself.

 

If you have read my casing what makes you think that Peace's vote on Golden wasn't just an early bus vote that he sat on?

I think most people are dismissing that because they normally think of bussing as something done during the heat of a moment or when the pressure is on.

The best busses tend to happen early and over time, putting two scum at odds with each other throughout the game so even if one of the two goes down the other one comes out looking way better than if they had both been chummy throughout the game and then crossed suddenly on Day 5 or something. I think this is what Peace, who I'm convinced is not town, may have been trying to do with Goldeneyes but it just so happens Goldeneyes ended up getting lynched Day 1.

 

As for WD vs this game. I don't know what else to say about that really.

They are different games and things have gone differently in them. Different people doing and saying different things.

I missed N0 (of my own choice), I came into D1 lateish, and then I was very busy and could only check in once a day for the rest of the game day.

This means I missed the poking and prodding votes I normally do which is what I think you're remembering most.

It's all completely different from WD so I'm not sure why you keep comparing it WD.

[peacesells]

I've addressed all your points.  Your biggest one was that I did not present a case on Golden.  I've quoted it 2 times for you and you have ignored it both times. 

[Nolder]

I've addressed all your points.  Your biggest one was that I did not present a case on Golden.  I've quoted it 2 times for you and you have ignored it both times. 

Three false statements in one post.

[peacesells]

 

I've addressed all your points.  Your biggest one was that I did not present a case on Golden.  I've quoted it 2 times for you and you have ignored it both times. 

Three false statements in one post.

 

 

The first time I posted my case on Golden.

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

Ad nausem bit.  - This is a stretch.  Elfie may be tunneling me..but she sure isn't acting like her opinion is the best.  Many play that way here..but she isn't exhibiting these traits.

 

Logic bit - Doesn't bother explaining why her logic is wrong.  Just says it is.  Prove it.

 

Even if scum vibe is wrong -  Basically giving himself an out if he is somehow wrong and then giving a policy type reason for his vote - unhelpful town is worth killing type meaning.

 

Lyingly -  Is that a word.  Again, no evidence that she is lying.  She may feel exactly the way she is posting.  She may be wrong...but that doesn't mean she is lying. 

 

 

My biggest issue with Golden is that I played 1 game with him and he was very astute and succinct in that game.  Had great reasoning.  Great instincts.  Very good arguments.  He was town.   This post compared to that is a big pile of brown fiber.  His reasons lack substance. 

 

 

The 2nd repost for your benefit after you accuse me of not doing so.

 

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

Ad nausem bit.  - This is a stretch.  Elfie may be tunneling me..but she sure isn't acting like her opinion is the best.  Many play that way here..but she isn't exhibiting these traits.

 

Logic bit - Doesn't bother explaining why her logic is wrong.  Just says it is.  Prove it.

 

Even if scum vibe is wrong -  Basically giving himself an out if he is somehow wrong and then giving a policy type reason for his vote - unhelpful town is worth killing type meaning.

 

Lyingly -  Is that a word.  Again, no evidence that she is lying.  She may feel exactly the way she is posting.  She may be wrong...but that doesn't mean she is lying. 

 

 

My biggest issue with Golden is that I played 1 game with him and he was very astute and succinct in that game.  Had great reasoning.  Great instincts.  Very good arguments.  He was town.   This post compared to that is a big pile of brown fiber.  His reasons lack substance. 

 

 

 

And the 3rd time which you ignored again.

 

 

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

Ad nausem bit.  - This is a stretch.  Elfie may be tunneling me..but she sure isn't acting like her opinion is the best.  Many play that way here..but she isn't exhibiting these traits.

 

Logic bit - Doesn't bother explaining why her logic is wrong.  Just says it is.  Prove it.

 

Even if scum vibe is wrong -  Basically giving himself an out if he is somehow wrong and then giving a policy type reason for his vote - unhelpful town is worth killing type meaning.

 

Lyingly -  Is that a word.  Again, no evidence that she is lying.  She may feel exactly the way she is posting.  She may be wrong...but that doesn't mean she is lying. 

 

 

My biggest issue with Golden is that I played 1 game with him and he was very astute and succinct in that game.  Had great reasoning.  Great instincts.  Very good arguments.  He was town.   This post compared to that is a big pile of brown fiber.  His reasons lack substance. 

 

 

posting for the 3rd time for nolders benefit.

 

[peacesells]

so, who's lying now Nolder?

 

Let's dial you up to about a 7.5 now. 

[Nolder]

You try so hard to justify outright lies.

Why? Is this a new thing you're experimenting with?

If so, stop it now because it's stupid.

I can and will prove you wrong in my next post and that is really your biggest flaw with whatever you're trying to pull.

Stop lying about things that can be easily checked.

[Andrej]

Just over 24 hours until DL.