[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[csarmi]

Scum QT is fun aye? Still can't believe we almost got Rags lynched lol.

 

BTW I was convinced there was more because two cops, a deputy and two vigs with 20% scum seemed completely unbelievable to me. Just too many informative actions.

[Andrej]

Barring Dap's vig shot, I liked the multiple Cops with varying sanity tied in to the CPR Doc. That's the first time I've seen one of those played, and I think they balanced well because as I said several times he could just have easily killed a Cop when trying to protect them if the Mafia shot elsewhere. Made for an interesting dynamic in the WIFOM for NAs.

[csarmi]

What might be of interest is that I almost decided on RB+Kill Rags on that fateful night (instead of RB+Kill Krak). Would have been a little different :P

[Darthe]

Welcome to a Wombat game :p I had to push for a week to get symps for our three part game.

[csarmi]

CPR cop: it's not a protective role, it's just a vig with some extra. You never wanna vig a cop :D

[csarmi]

@Wombat - with all due respect, I'm pretty sure the game favours town a lot if they play correctly - and they did.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna take away from any of that genius play by Rags, Peace or Despo (or all the rest) tho.

 

FWIW, I don't think Verbal botched that claim too bad btw. Makes sense to treat deputy second-hand there and not reveal soon. Wasn't gonna argue that tho :)

[Darthe]

It is swingy but it could have ended with a deputy, a cop killer and a glorified vig whose claim nobody will believe at the end of N1 against a BP scum a GF and a full rb.

[hazelkrs1]

I def don't think the town was necessarily overpowered. We had a lot of roles with potential negative utility. Even the two cops, while both still effective (only ineffective cops are naive, paranoid, and the dreaded random, which are disastrous for town), could end up causing a lot of wifom and wasted NA's to determine Sanities, like how it played out exactly in this game.

 

Mostly it was just really good use of town PR's on town's side. A couple of misplays on NA's could have made it play out way different.

[csarmi]

Yes I understand those roles have quite a lot of negative utility being built in.

I think a symp would have been a nice addition to our team. Say, Tina or AJ :)

 

Anyway, gotta run now... finally some room to breath an dnow i gotta catch up on a stupid dominions 4 game i been neglecting for a week.

[csarmi]

Jailkeeper is an awesome role by the way. Too bad I didn't have it for real!

[hazelkrs1]

CPR doc can most certainly protect. In fact, it can holster for a while and reveal as normal doc, and act as a deterrent for the scum team's NK, and throw in a clutch protect on a Cop @ endgame. Seen it happen.

 

I do think it has more utility as a killing role however.

[hazelkrs1]

And yeah, Jailkeepers is a fun role.

 

Thanks for the game Wombat!

 

[peacesells]

Good Job town. 

 

Glad to know SOMEONE thought I played well. 

[Andrej]

Peace, in hindsight I think you handled your role very well. You viewed 2 of the mafia team back to back, so props there. Ignore my extreme badgering of you after you CC'd

[hazelkrs1]

I do think you picked great NA targets Peace (obviously). I just don't get why you didn't want to lynch Darthe to test your sanity lol. And you did apparently get across who you viewed the last night, so that worked out in the end as well.

[peacesells]

I do think you picked great NA targets Peace (obviously). I just don't get why you didn't want to lynch Darthe to test your sanity lol. And you did apparently get across who you viewed the last night, so that worked out in the end as well.

 

Cause at the time I thought were you scum and had fake claimed cop.  I wasn't even going to CC you until you started leading a case against me.  That forced me out.

 

You assume to much that there is no distrust in this game.  You know your alignment and role but no one else does.  So what is obvious to you is very muddy to others. 

 

It was only several pages later when I had time to go away and come back that I started to think two cops was a possibility.  Then even later that our sanity was in question. 

 

AJ was getting in the way a lot with his tunneling on me.  Looked like the two of you were a team.  That's why I viewed him the 3rd night.  And, why I backed off of him the next day.

 

So that combination of things had me doubting you so much that I wanted to test your reads before testing mine.

 

And, not only that, the whole time I'm looking for reactions from others.   I don't always say what I believe in the game thread.  I say many things on purpose.  I lie a lot...even as town..probably more as town.

[Nolder]

A town win? What the hell happened in this game?

Did Wombat modkill all the scum or something?

[csarmi]

I def don't think the town was necessarily overpowered. We had a lot of roles with potential negative utility. Even the two cops, while both still effective (only ineffective cops are naive, paranoid, and the dreaded random, which are disastrous for town), could end up causing a lot of wifom and wasted NA's to determine Sanities, like how it played out exactly in this game.

 

Mostly it was just really good use of town PR's on town's side. A couple of misplays on NA's could have made it play out way different.

Yea but in the end those cop views are still cop views once they flipped. Entirely too many. Yea, if town mispalys they can cause themselves a sh*tload of trouble easily.

 

Anyway, nice game. We were standing quite good until Cloud got shot.

[TheRagnarok]

Nice set up Womby.  Csarmi, I have no clue on how you lived as long as you did after that day phase where we went back and forth the whole time.  I thought for sure town would lynch you asap.  Gotta respect that. 

 

and Hi Cloud :)

[WWWwombat]

This came out really well. I enjoyed it, well done town! I have to give town MVP to peace. Without those viewings this whole game could have played out differently but he was spot on and left us very little room to play in.

 

Yeah, Peace's viewings and Rags' shot were so clutch for town.

 

 

@Wombat - with all due respect, I'm pretty sure the game favours town a lot if they play correctly - and they did.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna take away from any of that genius play by Rags, Peace or Despo (or all the rest) tho.

 

FWIW, I don't think Verbal botched that claim too bad btw. Makes sense to treat deputy second-hand there and not reveal soon. Wasn't gonna argue that tho :)

 

It is swingy but it could have ended with a deputy, a cop killer and a glorified vig whose claim nobody will believe at the end of N1 against a BP scum a GF and a full rb.

 

Indeed.  Yes, the town PRs all did play correctly for the most part, and that's utterly remarkable.  There were so many ways things could go wrong.  If Peace had viewed anyone but Salami or Darthe on N1 or if Rags hadn't shot Cloud, this game would have been very different.  Town could have wasted the first two or three days lynching cops and/or their viewings.  And either Dap or Rags could have wrecked the town.  It was swingy for sure, but I gave you guys a GF an RB and a BPV, which is a lot more role power than usual in a game this size.  If I had to run it again, I would tweak a couple things, but you can never make a setup perfect, and overall, I think it worked out pretty well.

[TheRagnarok]

That's part of why I didn't shoot at all the night I died.  I wasn't sure what role Csarmi had and didn't want to take the chance on getting redirected.

[csarmi]

I agree that the setup worked very well. I hope you understand it wasn't sour grapes talking there. I'd have preferred winning tho, lost very few games lately :)

 

We have lost because:

 

1) town played well

2) we did a bad job staying hidden and/or townie (we were always going to be playing this in the open, but that doesn't mean we have to be so scummy, Cloud's been shot for a reason, for instance) <-- a thought here: due to the nature of the setup, a maffia team having players preferring the background would do better

3) our night decisions weren't any good. yes we caught Dap, but we should have put in a lot of thinking there (and yes, splitting the kill/RB, btw I think I was against that all along)

 

Pretty sure we were underdogs in theory, but that has nothing to do with us losing. In practice, the game played out balanced.

[Krakalakachkn]

Thanks Wombat!

 

 

Good game everyone. That was an entertaining read and fun to see CS run it as far as he did.

 

 

Darthe, great symp tell.

[WWWwombat]

I agree that the setup worked very well. I hope you understand it wasn't sour grapes talking there. I'd have preferred winning tho, lost very few games lately :)

 

We have lost because:

 

1) town played well

2) we did a bad job staying hidden and/or townie (we were always going to be playing this in the open, but that doesn't mean we have to be so scummy, Cloud's been shot for a reason, for instance) <-- a thought here: due to the nature of the setup, a maffia team having players preferring the background would do better

3) our night decisions weren't any good. yes we caught Dap, but we should have put in a lot of thinking there (and yes, splitting the kill/RB, btw I think I was against that all along)

 

Pretty sure we were underdogs in theory, but that has nothing to do with us losing. In practice, the game played out balanced.

 

Fair enough.  A lot of the game balance had to do with metagame-based predictions such as how altered sanities would affect the gameplay, so I couldn't assume optimal play from either side and as it turned out, the town came pretty close to optimal with their night actions.

[csarmi]

And yea insane cop coming out with a guilty might just be two mislynches in a row which is huge.