[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[Verbal32]

No Verbal..you said Cloud was scummy for being very aggressive at the start of day 1.  You guys (the scum) in that that were overtly defending each other which...it different all together.

 

That game:  blatant defense/hid in the open = scum did something different and it worked.

 

This game:  I'm saying to not judge based on what scum would do because of "that" game as an example = same damn thing, dude

[Verbal32]

 

 

##vote Verbal

 

Good vote.  Don't like my reveal?  My hair?  Or just scum and trying to blend in?  Things to think on.

 

I don't like your reveal (especially the timing of it). I believe I might have said so.

Also, I get the feeling that that the reason you wasn't hammered is that your scum buddies stalled your lynch. Too many people weren't interested in consolidating on you even very close to the DL.

 

 

 

Vote Count

 

Cloud(1): Pralaya

Verbal(3): Tina, Cloud, Salami

Salami(1): Leelou

 

8 to lynch.

 

Tina:  tunneling me, which is her MO - null tell

Cloud:  OMGUS voting me, which is null by itself.....but I still think he might be scum

Salami:  has no idea on how this game is flowing, which means he isn't that engaged in scumhunting.....which means he's probably scum

 

 

I'm surprised Cloud hasn't questioned me on why I'm not voting him yet today after being all over him D1.  Very surprised, actually.

 

Why do you feel Cloud's OMGUS is a null tell? Also, what makes you feel better about him today?

What gives you the feeling that I have no idea how the game is flowing? If that's true, how does that mean I'm not engaged in scumhunting?

 

 

Null tell because lots of people OMGUS and it really doesn't say much.

 

What makes you think I feel better about him today?  What a weird thing to suggest....have I said anything that might make you think I'm ok with him now?  Based on my reveal, I can't view people yet.  You fishing a little here, or genuinely missing the gameplay on why I haven't started in on him yet?

 

As to your last question, I've basically answered that here, heh.

[peacesells]

In this game Cloud has done what he always does.  It's null for him.

[csarmi]

@Verbal: well you been after Cloud quite hard. So hard indeed that you wouldn't even move your vote from him to consolidate on someone else, even when run up yourself.

 

You seemed to drop that as new day came tho. Am I misinterpreting your actions?

[csarmi]

As for fishing. Seriously? Fishing for what? How?

[TheRagnarok]

Been travelling and doing family stuff for Thanksgiving. 

 

 

RB could be both town and mafia. Darthe is still not playing like town. He refuse to answer questions or gives arrogant answers that doesn´t mean anything. Again - Darthe, why did you say that Verbal should have been lynched when you never voted? 

 

Pralaya´s vote on Cloud just before deadline was really weird. His reason was that Cloud put a serious vote on AJ for being serious but that wasn´t why Cloud voted AJ.

 

Leelou was acting very strange yesterday. First she says that she is willing to hammer Verb, then when she realise that he hasn´t enough votes she asks if we should vote Darthe instead. But afterwards she said that she was ready to hammer Verbal anyway. Why was it so important to hammer? If you were ready to lynch Verbal then just vote him. 

 

Verbal hasn´t done anything that has changed my mind about him. 

 

Rag left his vote on my the whole day even though it clearly wouldn´t lead anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

## Vote Verbal

Lot of words...not a lot said here.

 

I left the vote there because you are one of the two who have stood out the most to me as scummy.  And I didn't want you sliding through with no votes.  Hard to get early reads on everyone when I know no play styles.

[_CLOUD]

I'm surprised Cloud hasn't questioned me on why I'm not voting him yet today after being all over him D1.  Very surprised, actually.

 

You appear very excited to finally being able to explain this. So Verbal why haven't you voted for me, or anyone else for that matter, since Day 2 started?

[_CLOUD]

A lot of people also appear to be defending me right now which I find quite interesting.

[Andrej]

I agree that Darthe's claim does look better with Dap showing a 1x ability. It's cool that you like to peg Town players, but who do you think is scum?

 

Still not sure about Verb. I think he defended his claim pretty well, but... meh. Deputy is still a good fake claim, I don't care what kind of thinking you put behind it.

 

Getting bad vibes from Mish. Early on she makes a comment about how she found me 'worth keeping an eye on' because of my aggressive play but later agrees with Peace that aggressive play on D1 is more or less a Town-tell. Like I mentioned earlier when she was defending Cloud, feels like she was once again giving herself some leeway to change her mind on me and vote if I was getting lynched since at the time I was sitting pretty high in the VC.

 

Leelou still stands out to me because of her voting pattern.

[Niniel]

Been travelling and doing family stuff for Thanksgiving. 

 

 

RB could be both town and mafia. Darthe is still not playing like town. He refuse to answer questions or gives arrogant answers that doesn´t mean anything. Again - Darthe, why did you say that Verbal should have been lynched when you never voted? 

 

Pralaya´s vote on Cloud just before deadline was really weird. His reason was that Cloud put a serious vote on AJ for being serious but that wasn´t why Cloud voted AJ.

 

Leelou was acting very strange yesterday. First she says that she is willing to hammer Verb, then when she realise that he hasn´t enough votes she asks if we should vote Darthe instead. But afterwards she said that she was ready to hammer Verbal anyway. Why was it so important to hammer? If you were ready to lynch Verbal then just vote him. 

 

Verbal hasn´t done anything that has changed my mind about him. 

 

Rag left his vote on my the whole day even though it clearly wouldn´t lead anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

## Vote Verbal

Lot of words...not a lot said here.

 

I left the vote there because you are one of the two who have stood out the most to me as scummy.  And I didn't want you sliding through with no votes.  Hard to get early reads on everyone when I know no play styles.

 

Few words...not a lot said here. 

 

I understand that it´s hard to get any early reads when you don´t know us. But as you said, it can also be a good thing not to know people´s meta. What do you think about the players so far? 

 

I also understand that you voted for someone who you thought was scummy but in the end of the day your vote did nothing. Did/do you believe that Verbal and Darthe are town? If so, why?

 

I agree that Darthe's claim does look better with Dap showing a 1x ability. It's cool that you like to peg Town players, but who do you think is scum?

 

Still not sure about Verb. I think he defended his claim pretty well, but... meh. Deputy is still a good fake claim, I don't care what kind of thinking you put behind it.

 

Getting bad vibes from Mish. Early on she makes a comment about how she found me 'worth keeping an eye on' because of my aggressive play but later agrees with Peace that aggressive play on D1 is more or less a Town-tell. Like I mentioned earlier when she was defending Cloud, feels like she was once again giving herself some leeway to change her mind on me and vote if I was getting lynched since at the time I was sitting pretty high in the VC.

 

Leelou still stands out to me because of her voting pattern.

 

Interesting observation of Mish. For what it´s worth - I´m leaning town on you now. 

[hazelkrs1]

Gonna have to catchup in here after audit

[Andrej]

@ Tina - Good. I am Town.

[hazelkrs1]

Went ahead and just did another reread since I had time. Gonna respond to the off-topic stuff I meant to before but didn't have time to, and cause it will help put me in a better mood. Cause yeah, we REALLY should have lynched Verbal yesterday, and the way he "danced" out of it has me pretty heated. Gonna spoiler it so peeps can move right past it if they want. Serious thoughts next post.

 

I feel like I'm herding cats.

 

Lol did you ever see that super bowl commercial from a few years ago about this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

 

 

Back to Pral....

 

Darthe 53 Leelou 37 TheRagnarok 25 Andrej 23 Verbal32 23 Lenlo 19 WWWwombat 17 peacesells 14 Krakalakachkn 11 Despothera 11 csarmi 10 _CLOUD 10 TinaHel 4 dapianoplay3r 4 Misheru Sedai 3 Pralaya 1

 

 

 

Pral, pipe down.  I'm sick of reading your post.

 

 

No.

 

But my fruits do hang low.

 

 

That was a testicle joke.

 

 

Oh, and this (in response to Des' earlier statement on page 4):

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG1pXMV54iw

 

Proof! As if anyone needed any.

 

This doesn't beat Christopher Walken singing Lady Gaga tho. That was just priceless.

 

 

Are you trolling me with that bridge?

 
 

 

This was great, Mish

 

Completely not relevant to the game...

 

And for a psych major, or grad or w/e, you sure do resort to some childish stunts to try and elicit reactions. My rl name is Eric. Wanna call me Erica and say I can't come to your birthday party?

 
I thought your RL name was Travis? 

 

 
but it's Travis Eric or Eric Travis. I forget the order. :p
 
*still reading*

 

 

It is, in fact, Eric Travis. And now that that's settled, everyone can stop holding their breath

 

 

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

@town:  I have no problem with being the D1 lynch, but you better analyze the train and find the scum on it.  Start with Cloud.  Then move to people like Mish & Dap for the key ones to push it to the brink.  With only a couple hours left, I'm not sure I can wiggle out of this.

 

Soooo many things I need to comment on regarding this post from Verbal a bit earlier in the day, prob just gonna end up requoting it enough times so people can see the fail from Verbal as clearly as possible.

 

For now, I will say that THIS is where Verbal would have claimed if he was actually a Deputy. And he wouldn't have said he was fine being the D1 lynch either... what kind of town PR is fine with being lynched D1?!?!?!?!

 

SERIOUSLY. This isn't a complex question. What kind of freaking town PR offers himself up all martyr like the first day?!

 

NONE. The answer is none. As in, none of any town freaking PR's would do this.

 

#smh

 

 Mish's exposing of Verbal's Cloud vote - linked for pure awesomeness

 

And then Verbal's response to this:

 

Hahaha - he was talking about Darthe via AJ.  Heh, good point on that one.

 

 

My story doesn't change, though.  He's pushing the serious angle too early. Wanting to know how serious the vote on Krak was.  It looked pretty obvious to me that it couldn't possibly be that serious.

 

So you can continue your semantic argument all you want.  I had one name wrong - I was saying he pushed AJ, but that isn't accurate.  Although as you quoted above, he did speak about it regarding Tina & Rag (via Krak's quote above), so really it all boils down to the same story:  SO SRS too early.

 

Any other questions, or would you like to continue a semantic argument?

 

 ...

 

I propose we policy lynch Verbal from now on in any game where he tries using the semantics argument.

 

Verbal, Mish clearly showed that you initially voted Cloud for questioning if a read was serious or not (LOL serious read 4 posts in?!), how you THEN said Cloud was scummy cause he was being too serious at the start (You want town cred cuz you were SO SRS LOL!), and THEN said you were voting him cause he jumped on AJ for being serious early on. That's changing your story bro, that's NOT semantics.

 

Imo verb is better than I for today.

 

And yet you still didn't vote him...

 

#smh

 

 

It wasnt a vote on Krak Verb, it was a town read from Darthe.

 

Holy crap the semantics are strong with you.  Enjoy your heat tomorrow.  ;-)

 

 

My message never changed:  the 'serious too early' is not something made up - a lot of players do this.

 

 

 

I'm the Deputy.  If the Cop dies, I'll get to start viewing (I won't get past views, though).

 

Good luck.

 

 

Verb tries flinging the weak-ass semantics argument up again, his paper shield against Mish's brilliant blazing sword, and then claims a town PR 15 minutes before deadline.

 

Hey guys, remember this? 

 

@town:  I have no problem with being the D1 lynch, but you better analyze the train and find the scum on it.  Start with Cloud.  Then move to people like Mish & Dap for the key ones to push it to the brink.  With only a couple hours left, I'm not sure I can wiggle out of this.

 

 

Yeah, a Deputy wouldn't "have no problem" being the D1 lynch. And he also adds the (I won't get past views tho) to make it seem more believable, likehe was asking the mod more about his role. And yet, he apparently didn't ask the mod if his role would show up in coroner reports (we'll get to that later)

 

 

 

And you say that 15 minutes before deadline?

 

Very believable.

 

I don't care what you think is believable.  I don't know if Deputy would be in my coroner, so I wanted it out there before I died.  You really think the votes will pull off me?

 

This is lazy play by town.  Lazy.

 

 

Oh yeah, this was the next quoted post lol.

 

Yeah I don't buy FOR A SECOND that Verbal actually buys what he was pushing here- that his role might not show up in a coroner report. I mean seriously. Why WOULDN'T a mod list the role of someone that dies in a game that has coroner reports? Doesn't matter at all that it's a backup role, in fact a lot of times a backup role showing up in a coroner report will help verify for the players that the role it backs up WILL in fact be in the game.

 

 

You just keep changing your story... I wanted to know how serious Darthe's town read on Krak was, which as I already explained I found very unlikely. You voted for me for being so serious, and later you said that you voted for me because I found AJ's votes on Krak and Tina too serious which isn't true at all. It isn't a semantic argument at all.

 

## vote Verbal

 

 

It is semantic when you look at it from Mish and I discussing it.  I don't know your motives and thoughts - so to me your focus on Darthe and AJ didn't look right.  Mish is picking on the details of the names I jumbled, but the message stays the same.

 

Like I said, semantics.

 

 

Mish's case had nothing to do with jumbling names up! The fact that you said AJ instead of Darthe that one time is COMPLETELY inconsequential, and something that I don't even remember her touching on. It's the fact that at one point, you're voting Cloud cause he wants to know if a premature read is serious, at another point you're voting him cause HE Is being serious, and then finally you say it's cause he wanted to know if someone was being serious or not.

 

The message quite clearly DOESN'T stay the same, so instead of you trying to defend the fact that they don't, you try rolling it all up into a semantics argument. Complete bs.

 

 

 

I took the quote out, but Pray's vote on Cloud right before the deadline is just atrocious.

 

 

 

I probably hammered him. I unvoted because he claimed a PR, but after reading about the Deputy in the Wiki it seems like a very easy fake claim.

 

That's your inexperience talking.  If I'm claiming something to save my skin NOW, it is a role that is crucial to town NOW.  Not something that might never come to light.

 

 

You claimed 15 minutes before deadline. It makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER what you claimed at that point. If you were town, you would have claimed sooner. Period. And don't try to act like you didn't think you would get lynched yesterday, this lovely post proves otherwise:

 

@town:  I have no problem with being the D1 lynch, but you better analyze the train and find the scum on it.  Start with Cloud.  Then move to people like Mish & Dap for the key ones to push it to the brink.  With only a couple hours left, I'm not sure I can wiggle out of this.

 

BOOM.

 

I think we have played in enough games together for you to know that I tend to be fairly aggressive at the start of a game. This is also one of the reasons why I get lynched so often on Day 1 :P I went into detail why I thought that AJ is scum, but now you make it look as if I just sheeped my vote onto his train without giving any kind of explanation for why I think so.

 

Don't like Cloud parroting what I said about his early play here almost exactly. Less of a town read on him now than I did before.

 

 Re: timing - honestly didn't expect to get lynched today, so I wasn't planning on claiming.  I only did as I'm not sure how much info Wombat will include in coroner reports, so I wanted to make sure that detail was included.

 

Re: backup role claim - AJ is wrong on the cc part.  What Cop in their right mind cc's that on D1?  That would be awesome for scum to know the identity of the Cop/Doc on D1.  So yeah, claiming backup was MORE risky.

 

 

You honestly didn't expect to get lynched today?

 

@town:  I have no problem with being the D1 lynch

 

With only a couple hours left, I'm not sure I can wiggle out of this.

 

Riiiiiight

 

And regardless of whether or not a Cop CC'ed you, what AJ said remains to be true: Deputy is a role less likely to be CC'ed, so prob safer to use in the long run. You saw 15 minutes left and thought town wouldn't lynch you, so it wasn't about what claim would be best to help you RIGHT THEN, it was about what claim would be better to roll with after the deadline passed.

 

And again, I don't buy for a second that you would believe Wombat wouldn't put "Deputy" in the coroner report if that really was your role.

 

I am willing to label Darthe and Verb as Town for now. 

 

Willing to label Darthe and Verb as town now, eh? Funny how those were two players that different players all said could be linked to you. You also seem to backtrack on this later

 

I agree with Despo. Both claims are as scummy as they get.

 

Verbal, your explanation makes no sense. So you aren't scum cause you didn't claim to have a stronger role? Maffia will claim whatever they assume to get them survive.

Sometimes a vanilla claim is just as effective in stopping trains as a PR claim, if not more. In your position there was no way you'd have gotten away with claiming anything really strong anyway... no town player waits until deadline-15 mins to claim, and especially no strong town PR.

 

Also quoted for awesomeness

 

Lol Des is mediating. I wish I trusted verb this game, he is making sense.

 

You sir, are a complete turdburgler if you think Verbal has been making any kind of sense recently.

 

 

Curious as to why Pral came in a voted Cloud over one of the other trains so close to DL. His check in vote of Leelou without explanation is also something I'd like to hear about.

 

The check in vote was a joke.

 

Asto the other vote, clearly, there was not going to be a random lynch.  Between the option of voting for someone i felt town and no lynch, I preferred the latter. If it was a random lynch with no coroner report, that is a different matter altogether.

 

 

This is bad reasoning Pray. A random lynch is bad, yes, but an unresolved lynch, as in one with no majority, is bad for town as well. And a mislynch, while not great for town, can actually often help town since the votes and trains can still be analyzed, and it can be known that that player's reads were genuine.

 

Essentially, you should ALWAYS vote for consolidation if a deadline is imminent (excepting rare situations at lylo or something), even if it's on someone you have a town read on. ESPECIALLY on day 1.

 

Is Des arguong that he would rather I have claimed a role I didn't have?

 

No, but you (as in the royal you, not you specifically in this instance) shouldn't spend so much time defending why your claim makes more sense and is less likely to be a fake claim than another role, to the detriment and distraction of town.

 

And fyi, my mini-tirade was directed much more at Verbal than you. I think I remember you defending your claim once, you didn't go back and forth continuously on it like he did.

 

Who knows.  Des and Salami both don't want to talk about it.......but then talk about it.

 

Did I ever say I didn't want to talk about it?

 

NO.

 

If I don't want to talk about something, I don't talk about it. I said my peace about it, and was off so didn't stick around to argue, but prob would have had I been present.

 

Darthe's claim looks a little better now.

 

You know, a lot of people are saying this, and I just wanna point this out: he could in fact be a 1X RB'er, and yet still be scum. I'm wary of those saying that his claim looks more believable so that he must be town now.

 

 

I think salami is scum. He's been pretty spammy and not really extra helpful for town. Even during my read through I keep going back and forth about whether I think AJ is scum or not. Darthe started out hard against Len and actually let it drop. Darthe - thoughts on Len now? Verbal - spam enabler. Jerk. Most likely town from claim. Mish has been heavily defending Cloud null to scum read. Right now thinking Des is town. Pral, still hard to get a read on since he has only posted a handful of times. Tina went from commenting only with AJ to tunneling on Verb. Mixed vibes from her. She tends to be more inquisitive as town. Peace, meh still null read. Would have liked to see a lynch yesterday. Still leaning town on Krak. Len seems to have disappeared. Rag, still can't really read him yet. Cloud, null to scum. 

 

A lynch definitely would have helped from yesterday. 

 

##vote Salami

 

Don't really see Salami as scum personally, I'm thinking the scum team now wants to push his lynch because he is pushing against Verbal... whom you kept from getting lynched yesterday btw, so I really don't like you saying a lynch would have helped yesterday.

 

Also don't really like your point on Tina, she has seemed fairly inquisitive to me this game.

 

I like to hammer Verbal and he likes to hammer me.

 

And yet... you had the opportunity to hammer, yet didn't. You even acknowledged the impending deadline, and were there after it was resolved that Verb was in fact put at L-1 with Cloud's vote. And yet, you ask if you can get Darthe lynched instead....

 

Why not tell Cloud to revote Verbal so you could hammer him? Why not try and vote Verbal anyways in the hopes that a random townie miraculously showed up at the zero hour with a hammer so we'd at least have a lynch?

 

I REALLY don't like your behavior at the end of the day yesterday Leelou, regardless of Verb's alignment. But if he flips scum (which I'm fairly certain he will), then you are definite scum imo.

[hazelkrs1]

##Vote Verbal

 

Cause I like freedom, justice, and believe in the general goodness of mankind.

 

Seriously tho, Verbal NEEDS to be our lynch today. Because of how the day ended yesterday, there is just a plethora of information that can be obtained with his lynch. Could shed some light on Leelou, Pray, Darthe potentially, as well as on some of those pushing his lynch as well if he did in fact end up being town.

 

But he won't, btw. Dude is scum. No town PR is gonna wait to claim till 15 minutes before the deadline. And he tries to act like he didn't think he'd be lynched, even tho he himself said a day before he didn't think he'd be able to "dance out of this one". He also offered himself up for sacrifice for the D1 lynch, again, something that NO town PR will ever do. Not to mention going back and forth with peeps about why his claim is better than other fake claims.... I mean sheesh.

 

Also think Darthe, Leelou, and AJ are scum. Pray could be policy lynched for his inactivity then showing up right before deadline... to vote an outlier. But for today, we lynch Verb. And yes Verb, I am totally allowed to say that, cause I get to determine the mod judgement on any issue I want this game.

[michellem]

So many details that had slipped my head, so thanks for that post Des. I feel clearly manipulated now... Not a good feel. I'm gonna have to go look back at from Verbs trains started myself. I'm getting visitors any minute though, so it'll probably not be before this evening I'll have a clearer answer. But I feel like Verb expertly manouvered me away now and I don't like that feeling.

 

 

You can get a town-hat though Des. All good with you so far.

[peacesells]

Have I ##Voted Verbal yet?  If not,  ##Vote Verbal.

[Krakalakachkn]

When the weird loner kid from the private school went to look for Dap where he camped his RV, he found the door ajar.  Inside lay the lifeless corpse of Dap along with what remained of his wordly possessions: an old rifle, some broken bottles, and a couple dirty magazines.  The cause of death was readily apparent: a close range gunshot wound to the head.  Apparently Dap had survived his ordeal in Budapest only to be finished off as soon as he had been repatriated.

 

 

 

Dap, Jim Prideaux, Town One-Shot Vigilante, has been killed.

 

 

 

Day 2 begins.  8 to lynch.

 

Nice

 

 

 

RB could be both town and mafia. Darthe is still not playing like town. He refuse to answer questions or gives arrogant answers that doesn´t mean anything. Again - Darthe, why did you say that Verbal should have been lynched when you never voted? 

 

Pralaya´s vote on Cloud just before deadline was really weird. His reason was that Cloud put a serious vote on AJ for being serious but that wasn´t why Cloud voted AJ.

 

Leelou was acting very strange yesterday. First she says that she is willing to hammer Verb, then when she realise that he hasn´t enough votes she asks if we should vote Darthe instead. But afterwards she said that she was ready to hammer Verbal anyway. Why was it so important to hammer? If you were ready to lynch Verbal then just vote him. 

 

Verbal hasn´t done anything that has changed my mind about him. 

 

Rag left his vote on my the whole day even though it clearly wouldn´t lead anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

## Vote Verbal

 

hashtagtunneling

 

 

Your joke and rebuttal are #lazy

 

So, aside from me switching the detail of why I was pressuring Cloud for early play D1 (but the message was still the same), what is the case on me?  Is that it?  If so, I'm not quite sure that passes muster.  Seems lazy.

 

You know that's not the case, and you love tossing around lazy this game.  Your effort is minimal though.

 

#lazy

 

I like to hammer Verbal and he likes to hammer me. 

 

Is no one going to touch that?

 

 

cause I would.  I'd touch the sh*t out of that.

[Niniel]

Peace, can you give us some thoughts about the players? 

 

 

Totally agree with Des´s post.

[peacesells]

Peace, can you give us some thoughts about the players? 

 

 

Totally agree with Des´s post.

 

Yeah..Verbal and Salami are scum. 

[Niniel]

But what about the rest?

[peacesells]

If I had reads on others...I'd share them.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

Cloud(1): Pralaya
Verbal(5): Tina, Cloud, Salami, Despo, Peace
Salami(1): Leelou

8 to lynch.

 

I'll probably make deadline on Tuesday given the holidays/weekend.

[WWWwombat]

 

When the weird loner kid from the private school went to look for Dap where he camped his RV, he found the door ajar.  Inside lay the lifeless corpse of Dap along with what remained of his wordly possessions: an old rifle, some broken bottles, and a couple dirty magazines.  The cause of death was readily apparent: a close range gunshot wound to the head.  Apparently Dap had survived his ordeal in Budapest only to be finished off as soon as he had been repatriated.

 

 

 

Dap, Jim Prideaux, Town One-Shot Vigilante, has been killed.

 

 

 

Day 2 begins.  8 to lynch.

 

Nice

 

I do what I can.

[Andrej]

 

Peace, can you give us some thoughts about the players? 

 

 

Totally agree with Des´s post.

 

Yeah..Verbal and Salami are scum. 

 

 

How does that work?

 

##vote Verb