"How Feminism Hurts Men"

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'm not sure. I hadn't heard of him before this. I guess he is if he got kicked out. 

[Barid Bel Medar]

So you've seen my approach to the movement, and these things are not what I would usually use, but this is just...absurd that there are no words to describe how disappointed I am in people. 

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexcampbell/how-the-law-turns-battered-women-into-criminals?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgp#3x0ofhs

 

So, this mother who had been subjected to the terror of domestic abuse tries - and sadly fails- to protect her young son from the violent offender. 

 

Naturally, she gets 45 years in prison for failing to stop the man who had subjected her to abuse and fear the likes of which I will never understand. 

 

And yet... the law is quick to defend people in shooting deaths on the dubious claims of 'feeling threatened' and the 'stand your ground' law. I am not trying to start a debate on gun law, only point out the disparity between the handling of mental health. 

 

In the one case, the mentality of a shooter is - rightly or wrongly- thoroughly explored and it is understandable that someone might accidentally shoot someone they percieve as threatening.

 

In the other, the law seems totally oblivious to the mental degradation domestic abuse inflicts upon the victim, and completely disregards the trauma and terror of the poor people who suffer through it.   

[michellem]

I am feeling so much rage at that article that I don't even have words.

[Ithillian Turambar]

[reyler]

You'd think I'd have learned by now the number one rule of Youtube: never look at the comments. Otherwise that video is awesome.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I know. The amount of peole who said, but you can't throw like a man! Because you're not a man'

 

They didn't seem to understand that the whole point was for 'like a girl' to not be classed a a negative thing.

 

I might not be able to throw a ball very far, but I have awesome ideas, like a girl. I solve problems, like a girl. I look after my family, like a girl and I will succeed, like a girl.

[reyler]

Actually I don't think I saw those ones, I just got distracted by the top thread, started by a guy who posited that girls aren't supposed to have self esteem because biology says so. It did not improve from there.

[WWWwombat]

Throwing like a girl:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRPEEXi3_C0

[WWWwombat]

Good article about the physical obstacles to women in pro baseball:

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-physical-obstacle-for-women-in-baseball/

[WWWwombat]

Also, another thing to look at regarding feminism and sports would be the somewhat recent controversy over NFL policy with respect to violence against women.  Baltimore Ravens RB, Ray Rice was caught on camera punching out his then fiancée.  The NFL initially only suspended him for two weeks, which resulted in public outcry.  Subsequent arrests of other NFL athletes for violence against women and children escalated the situation.  People have called for the commissioner to resign.  He has vowed to make changes after the Super Bowl, but that seems to be too far off to many.  Unfortunately, people seem to have been distracted by Ebola and midterm elections lately.  Personally, I'm considering not watching the Super Bowl unless my team makes it.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I think I'd just like for my gender to not be classed as an insult.

[WWWwombat]

Also, as for the ASUS ad, it's definitely playing on sexist stereotypes, but it's pretty mild compared to some of the stuff I've seen in gaming.  The doxxing of prominent women on the scene for instance.

[WWWwombat]

I think I'd just like for my gender to not be classed as an insult.

 

Watch Mo'ne pitch.  She strikes out the side to complete a two-hitter :)

[WWWwombat]

Personally, I would love to see a woman make it in the MLB.  She might have to be a knuckleball pitcher or something, but even that would be awesome.

[Meridian]

So, good on Australia for revoking Julien Blenc's visa. I don't know why DM is not allowing me to link anything into any of my posts. But if you folks have been reading the news recently, can anyone explain how he is still walking around free? I spent almost an hour the other day reading articles that various women he's interacted with have been posting...and if he's done half the stuff he talks about---that is highly illegal. How is he getting away with it? And how is this kind of behavior still condoned in this century?

[Elgee]

So, good on Australia for revoking Julien Blenc's visa. I don't know why DM is not allowing me to link anything into any of my posts. But if you folks have been reading the news recently, can anyone explain how he is still walking around free? I spent almost an hour the other day reading articles that various women he's interacted with have been posting...and if he's done half the stuff he talks about---that is highly illegal. How is he getting away with it? And how is this kind of behavior still condoned in this century?

 

Exactly. Thank you.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I literally have no words. 

 

Seriously... I just don't... 

 

Warning, strong language and pretty much all round offensiveness. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC52toizz8U

 

There is all this nonsense about the song being about 'party-poopers' and snobby unpleasant people who look down on others. I understand that they attempted satire, but it failed, totally and utterly. I won't bring up the lyrics, but if you read them, it's more than just a satirical piece. 

 

The worst - and most confusing thing - is that the song is co-written by a woman. 

 

I don't know what idiot thought it was a good idea to publish this record, but looks like the RedFoo is going to be axed from Australia's X-Factor. 

[reyler]

The worst - and most confusing thing - is that the song is co-written by a woman. 

 

Misogynist attitudes have never been exclusive to men.

[Meridian]

True that. I work as a bus driver, and it is super unsettling when women treat me worse than men. I had one female actually tell me, "I'm so glad you're a woman! I'm more comfortable telling you what to do than the male drivers!" ... really?!

 

Yeah, misogyny certainly isn't monopolized by any one group.

[Ryrin]

http://time.com/3591439/indonesia-sexual-assault-virginity-tests-police/

 

"All women who want to become policewomen should keep their virginity,” says the police force's jobs website.

 

In response to the HRW report, a spokesman of the Indonesian police told local media that “there are no virginity tests in the selection of policewomen.” But he added: “In the selection process, there are comprehensive medical tests for men. In medical tests for men and women, we also conduct examinations of reproductive organs, not virginity tests.”

 

However, the Indonesian national police’s jobs website still states: “Policewomen must also undergo virginity tests. So all women who want to become policewomen should keep their virginity.”

Only 3% of Indonesia’s 400,000 police officers are women. Married women are not eligible to join the police.

 

 

[Ithillian Turambar]

This made me smile today - although I have NO idea what Barbie said about the computer code.

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-30135148

 

Also that pick up guy got banned from entering our country.

[Daruya]

Ithi, is that the article/blog about the Barbie/Computer Scientist book in which Barbie had to ask the boys for help with the code?  I thought about posting that  here when I read it last night but got sidetracked.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Yes it is. Barbie the computer programmer - but 'flutter eyelashes' she only does the design 'simper flutter' and needs the two men to actually make it really work.

 

And so she got a bit 'hacked' off and now even the Barbie makers are saying they got it wrong and they'll make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

And we've had politicians saying NO - we don't need people who teach using sexual violence and control of women, so bugger off.

 

So am feeling quite cheerful and hopeful today.

[Loranflame]

*Slips in from the murky shadows.*

Hey! Had to drop in and see how this thread is doing... I do find the topic most fascinating. And wow... it has been busy haha. 

 

There are a few things I've read that I'd love to debate... so I will give my two cents on a few topics and points real quick. I'll post a link to a very interesting article at the end of this post... I look forward to hearing your views on it. 

 

1.) Should men and women be able to directly compete in sports?

 

I'd say yes and no. First of all, do the women really want to? Supposing they do... is it feasible? As some have mentioned there are physiological differences between men and women that sometimes make it impractical for the two sexes to compete at the highest levels. The 100m sprint is perhaps one of the best examples. Though their may be a very, very rare exception... no woman would be able to match up to the men in the 100m sprints. The fastest woman in the world would not finish 8th. She would have dropped out before even the semi-finals. There is nothing sexist about this. It is science and it is fact. My point is that there are cases where women and men have their own events for a reason. 

 

Having said that... there are also sports where men and women could compete together. I am inclined to believe that women are capable of standing and playing alongside men on a football field for instance (I'm talking about soccer mind you). I'm not too sure where I stand with things like boxing though... if their weight is the same I reckon a man and a woman wouldn't match up too badly (especially if the woman is more skilled). There are definitely women who could beat the living daylights out of men their weight and above. On the other hand... men still have advantages, and many men would not be willing to fight women. 

 

As far as identical events go, I reckon women should be able to have them if they want them. So if women want to swim 1500m instead of 800m... why not? This is 2015! We know better than to think that they are too frail... or at least we should.

 

2. Should a man pay for dates? 

 

Hmmmmmm... yes and no. Ultimately I think that is something he should be able to decide for himself (without be judged for his decision). We talk about breaking down the barriers between the sexes and genders... but men should pay for dates? I'm all for it if men want to... and many men still do. If a man feels like splitting the bill though... I don't think he should be judged for it.

 

I reckon you already know where you stand Fnorrll. If you believing in paying for your date then do so with pride in your heart hehe. There are indeed some women who would be offended if you did, so you may choose to make an exception for them, especially if they insist on paying.  Generally I would say be true to yourself and go with what you believe is right. It need not be the same decision or answer every time though.

 

3. Sexism in advertising.

 

As Fnorrll said... it's all about the money. As long as "money makes the world go around", sex will be used to sell. Because sex does sell. Advertising is generally based on a lot of research and statistics... it gives the creative people in the industry a headache sometimes hahaha. But yeah, there are things that are known, through extensive and proven research, to grab attention. They range from colors like red, to animals, to loud sounds, to blood, and yes... sex features very, very, very high in that list. Most of us are biologically wired to be interested in reproduction for obvious reasons. So yes, sex is an extremely powerful stimulus, and it is used with reckless abandon in advertising. 

 

It is used however because it grabs attention, it keeps that attention, and most importantly... it sells. As far as business is concerned, Asus is doing nothing wrong. As long as business and profit are top priorities in this civilized world of ours... things will not change. Because at the end of the day people want to get paid, and the bigger the paycheck, the better. That's life for now... hopefully the up and coming generations can change things. 

 

4. Can a man be a Feminist?

 

My link will somewhat relate to this, but we'll get to that in a moment. I do believe that a man can be a feminist, and it is in the best interest of feminists to accept men as such. It is a very valid point that men have not experienced the sexism that women experience. But back up a moment... because I'm pretty sure that a lot of feminists on this very thread have claimed that Feminism is all about equality between men and women. In fact... this entire thread began with the question of whether or not Feminism hurts men. And what did all the feminists say? They said it helps men and also helps the homosexual community e.t.c which begs an important question. What is feminism exactly? Are you changing your mind about what it is? 

 

Does one suddenly need to be a woman and experience sexism from that perspective in order to stand up for equality? You can't claim that Feminism is the definitive movement for equality... and then say that men can not be real feminists. That doesn't seem right to me at all... it almost implies that only women can really know what equality means and feels like. 

 

BUT I digress... the article related to the question made a great point. And yes, all men sometimes do things that the average female feminist would not like. Most men watch porn, we all look at beautiful women every now and then ("Objectification" according to Feminism), we says things among ourselves that we wouldn't say in front of the women in our lives e.t.c And yes... that does make it seem potentially hypocritical to claim that a man doing these things can be a feminist. 

 

I personally believe that a man can still be a feminist though... especially if Feminism is indeed about equality. One can believe in equality, and everybody having the same rights and freedoms... and still make their own choices, make mistakes, be an individual e.t.c. Isn't that exactly what equality is about at the end of the day? So a guy can't be a feminist if he admires a plump bosom? Anyway... Feminism and Feminists need to figure this out. In the meantime... I would simple appreciate the men who stand with you guys... cause lord knows many do not. 

 

What Is Feminism?!

Ok... now to the link! I am sure this will push some buttons here and there... and I must say I do not agree with everything in the article. I do however feel that it does make some very good points as well. Instead of explaining the article and my view on it, I will let you read it and I'll address your points and comments. 

 

Hopefully we will agree on a lot... but I'm sure there'll be some debate. But I love debate... so yay! That'll be fun! 

 

Anyway... here is the link: http://4thwavers.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/what-is-feminism/

 

*Settles down comfortably with some cookies and chocolate to wait for some discussion.*

[Guest]

i think the article makes som good points as well but i dont agree with everything claimed about "third wave feminism" and some other things. i would have to go back and read it all again a couplle times but these are some of my first impressions: 

 

the author states that the average feminist probablly doesnt support any of the points that radical does but ive noticed that a lot of self-identified average feminists support a few or softcore versions of the things the author pointed out; for example, thinking its amusing when a woman beats on a man, sexual objectification of men, reinterpretation/misunderstanding of history, expectation of double standards in favour of women, and judging men based on a negativistic generalisation of their character/gender i have seen some of in average feminists. 

 

i dont agree with how the author seems to suggestt that the current modern western culture is not misogynist and/or patriarchal. while better than it was in the recent past, there is no doubt there are stilll misogynist and patriarchal attitudes and practices heavy within the culture.

 

there were some other things i cant remember, i would have to go through again. but for the most part the definition of the third wave feminist seems somewhat solid. a personal anecdote, it wasnt that long ago that i had a run-in with some radical feminists in an online group i was in where the leader (one of the radical feminists) claimed that the group had become too "male-dominated" and so therefore she was goin to add less men and get rid others, which was a stunning example of gender discrimination, and the tone of the other feminists involved seemed to demand that the men *somehow* (i wasnt sure how because they didnnt make that clear) make the group more "welcoming" to women. i wasnt sure how the group was unwelcoming and so i suggested both that they come out and speak more about what they dont like besides that they need to be more vocal in general if they want to be heard and help educat people, i have to do that all the time in enlightening ignorant and disrespectful people about primitivism or conservation or anything else, to which i was responded by essentially "that's easy for you to say because you're a male with privelege" (? baffled me since i wasnt sure how my sex had to do with making a common sense assertion that you have to teach people if you want them to stop being ignorant) and there were some derogatory statements about men and their behaviour at which point i left the group because it was clear that such people dont actually believe in equality, they just want men to kow-tow to them and feel guilty for "privelege" while not mending any gender gaps or truly getting rid of authoritarian/oppressive institutes. essentially they just want to take the place of a patriarch, and that and similar experiences with radicals has left pretty bad taste in my mouth for the modern feminist movement. i have great respect for the feminist theory that i know of and feminists in other parts of the world as i think i mentioned before - but then i realised that the theories are a product of the less-recent expression of feminism and these particular feminists are workinng in parts of the world that more resemble other stages of feminism as well. as the article points out, these arent the majority of feminists - but pretty much as in any modern political movement, its the radicals - the peoplle who are very intense about whatever - who are the life of the movement.