Sammy!!!

[Gaul]

Hey guys I got a theory on sammy!

 

 

Rj stated"Sammaeal is Toast" Its possible he could be burned... I know I know its weak but I was just thinking and wanted to see every else's idea on this

[SBoydW]

....... :lol: ....sorry

[icspots]

The rest of the quote from RJ was ".... He's not coming back".

 

Nice try though. :)

[RobertAlexWillis]

-sigh-

[Gaul]

Yea w/e It just popped in my head so i decided to post the idea:D

 

To RAW: Raw that wasn't even a serious thought I just posted it to let out my ideas.

[RobertAlexWillis]

-shrug- I can still sigh.

[Thor]

Some people actually feels that Mashadar turned Sammy into toast and ate him with jam.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Jam does makes the toast taste better. Mashadar needed something to mask the taste.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Maybe RJ left Sammael's death open, in case he decided to bring him back. But then he hit a point in the story that he didn't need him/couldn't waste time to bring him back, and so he finally stated in the interviews that Sammael would definitely not be back.

 

Because, that is the worst death scene ever written in this series.

 

Sammael: *lurks*

Mashadar: *lurks*

Rand: *lurks*

Rand: OK, now I will kill y--

Liah: AIEE!

Rand: WTF *looks away*

Rand: *looks back*

Sammael: *gone*

Mashadar: *floats innocently*

 

Why didn't Sammael scream like everyone else whom Mashadar touches them? And what's with this cutaway death scene? Rand never sees a body, never actually sees him die... just assumes. There's a hole in that scene large enough to drive a s'redit through. I've never read a scene more likely to leave open for a character's return.

 

The only reason that we all agree he is dead, is that RJ said so. I think the only reason the debate continues is because our finely honed Reader's Instincts still scream otherwise.

[Trib4l]

If I recall he didn't scream because of Rand's balefire. I'm pretty sure he bf'd Liah, and then proceeded to bf the whole plaza so that mashadar was surrounding Sammael "before it happened".

 

Rand doesn't remember it because he didn't see it happen, and you know the paradoxical fun we can have with a bf discussion...

[Thor]

Trib4l's explanation seems good to me.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Well, this is the scene, from ACoS:

 

"Liah," he whispered. And balefire leaped from his hand.

 

For less than a heartbeat, the shape of her still seemed to be there, all in stark blacks and snowy whites, and then she was gone, dead before her agony began.

 

Screaming, Rand swept the balefire down toward the square, the rubble collapsing on itself, swept down death out of time — and let saidin go before the bar of white touched the lake of Mashadar that now rolled across the square, billowing past the Waygate toward rivers of glowing gray that flowed out from another palace on the other side. Sammael had to be dead. He had to be. There had not been time for him to run, no time to weave a gateway, and if he had, Rand would have felt saidin being worked. Sammael was dead, killed by an evil almost as great as himself. Emotion raced across the outside of the Void; Rand wanted to laugh, or perhaps cry. He had come here to kill one of the Forsaken, but instead he had killed a woman he had abandoned here to her fate.

 

He says he let saidin go BEFORE he got Mashadar, where Sammael was. And Rand never thinks that he may have balefired him. He assumes Mashadar got at him. He convinces himself -- "Sammael had to be dead. He had to be." He says that he killed Liah INSTEAD of one of the Forsaken.

 

So however Sammael is dead, per RJ, likely from Mashadar as we must believe. This doesn't give any indication that Rand balefired him.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, I used to subscribe to the "indirect balefire" theory, but it just doesn't stand up under an examination of the scene. Mashadar got him, in regular time. All the balefire did, at most, was distract him from the fact that Mashy was about to feast on him.

 

With raspberry jam.

 

Edit: spelling ... cursed spelling

[dimmu666]

totally agree with Wynne, one of the worst death scenes everr...we don't even see him die! and i totally thought he was coming back blehhhhhhh

 

rob, i disagree, i think he would taste better with an ice pepper puree.

[Magicana]

Maybe Mashadar is a mystical toaster.

[Luckers]

I actually kind of like the idea of Mashadar getting Sammael. The arrogant Age of Legender thinking to make use of one of the most dangerous and uncontrollable forces of the Third Age, and failing.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

I don't mind him dying by evil fog, but we deserved to at least SEE or hear the death.

 

"Rand glanced over and saw Sammael writhing in agony and shrieking soprano before he *poof* vanished. 'Huh,' thought Rand. And then he opened a Gateway back home."

 

It would have been like watching Star Wars, where Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft. Except instead of watching it, Luke notices his shoe laces are untied, so he bends down to tie them, and when he looks up, Vader is standing there alone. And we're supposed to believe the Emperor tripped and fell down the ventilation shaft like an idiot.

 

Sure, it COULD happen. But it could be a lopphole, in case the author wanted to bring that character back. Which we know now that he doesn't.

 

But if we didn't have the forums, and we didn't have interviews with the author, who here would really believe that Sammael was dead?

 

And, question. People that have perviously died by Mashadar, do they just vanish into thin air? I don't recall.

[Verbal32]

I don't mind him dying by evil fog' date=' but we deserved to at least SEE or hear the death.

 

"Rand glanced over and saw Sammael writhing in agony and shrieking soprano before he *poof* vanished. 'Huh,' thought Rand. And then he opened a Gateway back home."

 

It would have been like watching Star Wars, where Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft. Except instead of watching it, Luke notices his shoe laces are untied, so he bends down to tie them, and when he looks up, Vader is standing there alone. And we're supposed to believe the Emperor tripped and fell down the ventilation shaft like an idiot.[/quote']

 

I LOL'ed. People at work are wondering what is wrong with me. Or maybe they always do that...hmm...

 

But I agree with you totally as well, Wynne. RJ might have considered bringing him back, but then killed him in an interview. That must be the ultimate insult to Sammael = he didn't even die in the book, he died in an interview.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It would have been like watching Star Wars, where Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft. Except instead of watching it, Luke notices his shoe laces are untied, so he bends down to tie them, and when he looks up, Vader is standing there alone. And we're supposed to believe the Emperor tripped and fell down the ventilation shaft like an idiot.

 

That was awesome. :lol:

[Guest Fire Lord]

Wynne Jessal wrote:

It would have been like watching Star Wars, where Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft. Except instead of watching it, Luke notices his shoe laces are untied, so he bends down to tie them, and when he looks up, Vader is standing there alone. And we're supposed to believe the Emperor tripped and fell down the ventilation shaft like an idiot.

 

Truly awesome, like RAW said. I'm in a cybercafe right now, and it's kinda strange when you laugh apparently for no reason and people stare at you. But hey, I'm used to it... :shock:

 

I've always wondered, Forsaken use the True Power in emergencies. Could have Sammy done the same? Or Moridin already had the exclusive use of it at that time?

[Mat is the Boss]

And' date=' question. People that have perviously died by Mashadar, do they just vanish into thin air? I don't recall.[/color']

 

When Rand looked back, all he could see where Sammael had been was Mashadar. Sammaels body might still have been there(until Shadar Logoth was destroyed). Sammael didn`t have any time to Travel away, since Mashadar came from behind, and he was distracted by Liah.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Mashadar consumes the body. We find that out in The Eye of the World when Moiraine first takes them to Shadar Logoth. She recounts the story of how an entire Trolloc army went in and nothing was found afterwards except messages and such written on the walls. Bodies and everything were gone.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Yes, but do the bodies immediately disappear? Liah didn't...

 

I suppose Sammael could have been rolling around under impentratbly dense killer fog.. but it is expecting a lot for us to read that much into it, when no hint is given that that's the situation.

 

Why would RJ not simply have written, like...

 

"Rand screamed as he swept balefire down the square, destroying Liah and buildings and mashadar and pretty much everything else. When he looked back, he saw Sammael writhing and screaming as Mashadar engulfed him. LOL n00b thought Rand, before he rolled out."

 

What is the reason for the cloak-and-dagger cutaway death. It doesn't seem to serve any purpose, unless RJ takes malicious glee from deliberately misleading his readers into thinking one thing, and then randomly telling them they are wrong via interview (witness Taimandred).