[Basic] Die Hard for Mafia Game Thread

[Darthe]

 

 

Vote Lenlo

 

Verry Intrresting...

Can't argue with this logic.

 

Vote Lenlo

As for not bob he made a few little mistakes here. He voted Lenlo, which didn't make sense for a townie to do. Town should have questioned that or laughed at it (as salami did). This was needless and quick pressure.

 

He also chose to not vote me and while that was enough to catch my eye he did worse by not mentioning it. His attitude wouldn't so rapidly morph without some difference causing that.

 

Last, his statement. If town was going to vote here they wouldn't explain it. What reason would they have to do so? It was doubt that created that explaination, a sense of caution. Altogether this led me to one conclusion.

[Darthe]

 

 

Vote Lenlo

 

Verry Intrresting...

Can't argue with this logic.

 

Vote Lenlo

As for not bob he made a few little mistakes here. He voted Lenlo, which didn't make sense for a townie to do. Town should have questioned that or laughed at it (as salami did). This was needless and quick pressure.

 

He also chose to not vote me and while that was enough to catch my eye he did worse by not mentioning it. His attitude wouldn't so rapidly morph without some difference causing that.

 

Last, his statement. If town was going to vote here they wouldn't explain it. What reason would they have to do so? It was doubt that created that explaination, a sense of caution. Altogether this led me to one conclusion.

[Hallia]

As dawn broke over the Nakatomi Plaza the hostages began to stir, only to notice one among them was missing.  Upon a short search they discovered the corpse of a young limo driver.  He had clearly seen too much and had made himself expendable.

 

Cloud - Argyle - Vanilla Town has been Killed!

 

 

It is now Day 2.  With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  A deadline is set for 7pm PST on Tuesday, September 24.

 

Not Voting: Everyone

[Luciena]

Time for a re read methinks 

[dicetosser1]

 sorry daughters been real bad lately  have been up helping with her.

 

must play catch up

[csarmi]

As Cloud was my main suspect going, I will have to reevaluate.

[Andrej]

Huh.

 

vote Kaylee

[csarmi]

Huh.

 

vote Kaylee

?

 

?

[Andrej]

She's my best lead currently.

[csarmi]

I see, and "huh" because?

[peacesells]

She's my best lead currently.

 

Well, as I stated previously I have a town read on her.  Please explain why you don't.

[Andrej]

Because I am confused by the NK.

 

I'm sure Cloud was high on most player's lists for scum.

[Andrej]

 

She's my best lead currently.

 

Well, as I stated previously I have a town read on her.  Please explain why you don't.

 

 

I already have. I posted the start of a case before NotBob's lynch. Her over-explanation of everything along with her actions in regards to the leading trains yesterday make me suspicious.

 

I took what you said about her meta into account, but my gut tells me otherwise.

[peacesells]

ok..let's try this.  Why does her over explanation make her likely scum?

[Andrej]

Because it allows for wiggle room. By presenting both sides of a potential argument she doesn't have to commit to either side necessarily.

 

Her comments about Pral's train and his lack of getting hammered after being L-1 twice stuck out to me, specifically.

[Darthe]

Okay so here's the deal.

 

I am a vig and I killed cloud.

 

Mafia targeted whoever the doc protected.  I am revealing because this means mafia knows who the doc is and if we get a cop claim the doc wouldn't know he was outed.

[Andrej]

How does that equate to the mafia knowing who the Doc is?

[csarmi]

How does that equate to the mafia knowing who the Doc is?

Docs tend to self-protect until there's s better lead. On this site it's almost a given (doc being able to sp and doing so).

[Darthe]

So... we had one kill last night.  The other was protected against and doctors tend to self protect N1.  If mafia submit a kill on someone and that person is protected then either Doc got lucky with a protect or, as is more likely, mafia found the doc who self protected.

[dapianoplay3r]

Peace

Kaylee reminds me of this game

 

Right. I think everyone should do this. I'm going through and Work out who I think is town. 3 people should be mafia and since there are only 9 players left now that's 1/3

Players

1. Via - town read

2. Basel - maybe mafia (but linked with time and I think she is town so yea)

 

 

Stupid post button... anyhow, continuation of what I was saying. I don't see anything scummy about either person not being here yet. Csarmi has yet to post at all, so there's no read till he shows up or is replaced. I don't see anything scummy about Darthe's vote yet, though. To me it reads like it could be town setting a trap to see who responds.

Reads either way for me

 

 

 

I think it is off about Peace getting on Darthe, but it could just be pressure that he uses when he plays normally... I think that as a new player, Via is doing well, but I have to say that I somewhat disagree with her reasoning for her vote... on day one, people come and go and usually wait for someone else to talk before saying something... or they have nothing to say... I do agree that he needed prodding though...

 

This sounds like a bit of fence-sitting to me. Vote Time.

Feels like this could be distancing to me, from Time.

 

 

I can't think that Darthe ever held up any hope of getting us to lynch time when she wasn't here ( with Darthe being town or mafia I think this holds up both ways), so don't see that as a reason to vote him. Voting home does make it look like Vambram is trying to distract from Peace's vote on Darthe.

I've also noticed that Basil's posts are either general chat, defence of Darthe or support of Darthe's vote on Time, which is making me a bit suspicious that he is mafia trying to buddy up to an active townie.

 

Via... if I feel that Darthe is town, then I have an obligation to try and steer the votes away from him, since town wants to lynch mafia. He made a strange and half-baked case on Time, but this is often a townie tactic to float up something wild solely to see what reactions you get, and then make your reads based on those reactions. Time hadn't yet made the post that led to my vote on her then, so there was no way of knowing that she was suspicious with no read on her. And if I vote Time for totally different reasons than he did, then it doesn't count as support of him. I never supported his case on her, I voted her due to something I noticed myself. I think her post that I mentioned as fence-sitting was her trying to cover all her bases so she can look good no matter how this day plays out.

The fact that you vote someone with a vote in them validates the previous votes in a way. You may not agree with the previous reason but you still added to the pile.

Say she got magically lynched while you were asleep and flipped town super duper role of awesome. Your vote would of killed her just as much as the vote you don't agree with. Just cos you don't agree with it doesn't mean it doesn't count

 

 

I'm going to put Time on the back burner here to deal with more recent developments. Csarmi/Trogdor seems to ping for me with his admission that he finds Darthe town, but willingness to lynch him anyway. Not unvoting is hardly a huge ping, I don't even think it's a ping at all. And he reads as overreacting about things when the heat turns towards him. Unvote, vote Csarmi.

I wonder if you will go back to time after Csarmis reveal?

We shall see. But it does look like distancing. I feel a town vibe from her but more of a mafia one from you

Strange that you do never go back to Time, even though you said you though she was scummy

 

 

3. Hallia - neutral

4. Vambram - leaning mafia

 

 

Obviously, we are still in Day 1 of this game.  I have read the posts and done my best to figure out who is Town and who is Scum. There is still plenty of time before this coming Monday night before we have to lynch anyone. But there is one player whose posts have been pinging my scumdar the most so far, and that person is Darthe. I know that Darthe has been very active, but that is relatively normal for him in Mafia games from what I have been able to see with my experience which is limited as compared to the veterans of Mafia. I think that Darthe is scum trying to make himself appear to be Town.

 

 VOTE DARTHE

  

Ok I want the list of who is town and who is mafia in your opinion. You said you did that read and try to figure it our all the way back here so where is it.

Then the actual vote in Darthe. You don't say you vote him for previously stated reasons by others, you vote him for something new

  

 

Looking together at the sum of all of the posts previously in this game, I am reading a good casing by the several players showing why they believe Darthe is scum. Darthe came out relatively aggressive on Day 1 with a vote against Time which he continued to defend against the questions of others for at least two or three real life days. Yes, I know that Darthe has recently unvoted and has now chosen peacesells to be his target for the lynch. But I think this was done after Darthe finally realized that his vote against Time was drawing more heat upon him than what he had anticipated. Therefore, I think that Darthe is scum and is attempting to redirect attention from one Town member to another while at the same time making it appear that he is scum-hunting.

On the contrary, I think that Darthe is scum but, in typical mafia fashion, wants to look like he is Town. Darthe is too active of a player to be a lurker scum, so instead I think that he has gone in the opposite direction.

I want to see those casings, I want them now, cos I don't see them.

Peace wasn't really an easy lynch. You also seemed fairly sure Peace was town and were linking Time to him cos of it. Setting up time to get town cred on the back of "an easy lynch"

I don't think you know what on the contrary means.

 

 

Vam: This stood out to me. What about their cases makes you believe he's scum? Anything to add or just going to follow others? Seems like mafia looking for a reason to jump on a townie's train.

 

On the 29th, I tried to use the multiquote function to make 13 separate quotes from earlier in the game concerning Darthe and those who were either voting against him for a lynch, and those who were calling him scummy. However, Dragonmount did not allow me to use that many quotes and it refused to post the analysis which I was following along with, and also trying to make on my own. Therefore, in frustration, I simply deleted all of those quotes, along with my analysis, from that post on the 29th, and simply just posted my conclusion which everyone has seen.

 

However, now that a couple of those, besides myself, who were trying to make a case to lynch Darthe have Unvoted after that post of mine, it is now apparent to me that Darthe has made a good case for himself to be Town. I understand that Darthe could still BE mafia, but at this point in time, I am now more inclined to believe that he is probably Town.

 

Therefore, UNVOTE DARTHE

 

As for the accusation that I was jumping on a train, the most votes that Darthe ever had against him was only two votes, so I don't see how that would really be considered a train,.. even in a game with only 11 players. But what did happen was that Darthe responded very well to the pressure that was upon him and I do not think that he appears to be scummy at this time. 

There is still over 24 hours before the deadline, so I am going to do another in depth re-read of this game thread and figure out who else I think is scummy. csarmi appeared scummy to me, but then he claimed the Healer role which I should believe and take at face value unless there is a counter claim against that.

  

Bloody convenient. Still seems like you were following a crowd and now are following them off.

Also it was a train cos 3 votes is half the votes needed to lynch someone

Also finishing for a counter claim just in case, and says he will do a full reread....

 

 

5. Csarmi - town

I think this has been gone over enough

7. Time - town.. But not strong

 

 

okay so the only thing that people are really getting on is that Darthe thinks it suspicious that I posted to check in even though I said I wasn't really going to be active until the 27th... I said that I wasn't going to be really active, and checking in helps get the game started and is usually a short post that doesn't involve me taking notes on...

second, people are getting on Darthe because he got on me... while I can see their reasoning that it could be mafia trying to get an easy town lynch, this early on and with Darthe's experience, I think it highly unlikely that's the case...

She is similar to Basel here where she could be setting up for Darthe to flip town but it could just be town as well

 

I have a question for you csarmi.... if this isn't your first game, shouldn't you know what to expect from other players?? and if you do, and you get emotional about it, then why don't you have a way to cope with it without making it seem like you are overreacting??

  

Time starts setting up for a bit of a Csarmi lynch

 

I just find csarmi's posts a bit over aggressive as well as some of them kinda rude... I'd rather have someone who makes a little bit of a slip up than someone who makes a big one, and at the moment, Darthe has only made a small one... and his reason for voting him at first was because he didn't call him by his name.... and he got mad at it being pointed out that he could be lying... a) he's either not enjoying the possibility of getting caught at it and has become over aggressive to make it seem like he's town that's just acting over aggressive, or he's town that finds even the smallest insult or mafia plan in almost everything... right now I'm inclined to think he's mafia especially because of his bogus reason for voting Darthe...

 vote csarmi

 

Leaves just enough wiggle room but that's her meta, she always likes to "see both sides" but in the end it's very non committal

Follows through with trying to get a Csarmi lynch

Thinking less town at this point

 

 

8. Mish - mafia but a weak weak read

 

 

Darthe's just doing his ususal Darthe, stirring the waters to see who'll bite or not. But your reasoning was too thin for anyone to buy this time Darthe. Maybe if you'd chosen another person, but not the one person who we all knew would be AWOL the first days.

Not scummy but I feel like as I go through this post will be useful

 

It's Cloudflare-time once a day, every day, at 11PM my time.

 

I think Peace looks a bit bad now for jumping on Darthe like that, I guesses from the first time it got pointed out to Darthe that Time was AWOL and he didn't respond, that is was his method of beating the grass for snakes and getting D1 going. And Peace bought it.

 

She starts to move to peace being scummy

 

Vam do you have any reasons for WHY you think that? That's an awful lot of politician talk, trying to make it seem like you're saying something, when basically all you say is "I think Darthe is scum" without giving any reasons at all. FoS on you.

csarmi, mafia is a game of lies and deceit, if you're gonna go emo everytime someone suggests you said anything other than what you did, you're gonna spend an awfuly lot of the game being pissed off. Some of the people in the game ARE liars, it's that simple. And we gotta find them. YOU might know that you're telling the truth; the rest of us doesn't. It's that simple.

So mish calls out Vam, I like that

I have an issue with the having to find liars part though, town lie too.

 

Yeah... Wow. Back to this game place.

Vam, you're just parroting others, and ignoring the fact that it got quite clear that Darthe was being Darthe and throwing stuff out there for people to react to. If you can't see that Peace came out looking the worst in that situation... Well, makes me feel like you're trying to protect Peace.

 

Feels like you distancing from Vam

 

 

Please note: I don't have any linebreaks again, so my posts will be a bit compavt.

Peace I know it might look like that if you squint at it. For now my gut says Darthe is town, and so I'm suspoicious of those after him.

Especially on such a thin reason as Vam, who doesn't think on his own but just follows along with others. Typical mafia technique. Actually I'm gonna go ahead and vote Vam

Another I'm keeping my eyes on is Csarmi; you are being very emotional, over-defensive, and your attitude isn't helping town, it's just a distraction.

Setting up for a town flip on Darthe quite nicely 

Also gives the room to move to a Csarmi vote if needed

 

 

9. Player - Town

11. Kaylee - leaning mafia

 

 

Darthe posts his weird logical numbers vote reasoning on time

 

Okay, logically speaking people have higher anticipation of being scum than town.  Likewise people who are mafia gain more from a quiet game than a loud game as it allows them to slip between the cracks.  Thus my hypothesis is that if we are to find scum and scum are interested in playing without sticking out then scum must have posted but would not be to forward as of yet.

 

Watch how Kaylee reacts

 

I follow your logic but want to point this out.

 

Time said in the sign up thread that she can´t be active until the 27th. That is the only exception to rule 1 that I will allow.

So she sets up to follow Darthe or to not depending on how the general group reacts

Then

 

The part of the theory I agree with is that scum tend to lay low and not stand out.

 

No one mentioned Kaylee or asked her about it, yet she feels the need to qualify it

 

 

 

I have a lot of issues with your systems darthe

Do you have issues with this one in particular? If so care to share?

 

Same goes for anyone. (Hard to get a feel for people when the main discussion is non game related).

 

Then she gets a little worried when there might be a flaw in the logic. Tries to get everyone to weigh in on this before she commits

 

 

I can give reasons why I think that if anyone's interested...just wanted to hear other's thoughts on the matter.

  

Realises that she might look like she is non committal and avoiding explaining why she blindly agreed so tries to qualify something no one asked about once again

(Looks like a person trying to make sure they look town)

Then I post this. I don't call her out and I was still mainly talking to Darthe, I just was answering her question

 

The mafia must of posted is my first issue. Not everyones checked in. Most people check in as soon as they see their role PM. So mafia or town people dont check in by a certaib time on alignmebt

also im active as either alignment, sane as others

And look how she thinks I'm calling her out

 

I'm not saying they haven't posted. I'm saying in general they try to lay low and not stand out. If they didn't post at all they'd be replaced most likely.

 

I don't say that she is saying they haven't posted, I was calling out the flaws on darthes logic. Then she goes to the thing that no one will really call her out on, mafia lurk. If they didn't post they would be replaced, yes in the middle of a game. People were still checking in.

Kaylee seems really worried about something not even directed at her just because she agreed with it

I say meta is more useful than going for lurkers and..

  

 

Most the time yes. There are a few times when going off of meta has gotten an innocent lynched though. For the most part I use meta.

She takes it so personally

 

Mine first

but no innactive lynching please. Mafia will become mmore active and we would judt end up lynching the town players

Sometimes active mafia is a good thing. I'd they're trying to be active, commenting on everything, it's easier for them to slip up. They can either over do it by commenting on every comment/reaction, or by focusing too much (tunneling) on one in particular.

Since they spend so much time staying under the radar, not wanting to be noticed, they tend to have a harder time being vocal.

You mean like needing to go back and amend bits of what they say so people won't find them scummy. Yea mafia tend to do that. Oh wait....! Haven't your been doing that all game?

Very non committal on pretty much everything so far

 

 

So yea Vote Kaylee

She's our best bet I think

 

Reminds me of that game

[Lenlo]

That sounds right, but are vigs part of basic games now? I always thought basic's were just cop, doc and reg town if we got that.

[csarmi]

I'm the doc and I did self-protect.

[Darthe]

Vig can be in basic.

 

Salami, that reveal makes sense.  Mafia knew who you were so town not knowing was only hurtful.  It also brings the question of why the mafia chose to kill you?   My bet is that they did it because of how solidly people had a town read on you.  Idk if they will NK me or not, depends on how on target my reads are I suppose.  That should be good info later though.

 

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE COP NOT REVEAL.

[csarmi]

Vig, survivor, SK, godfather, roleblocker, cop, doc, vanilla are the usual ones (saw all these).

 

I'd be very surprised if this game had no Vig, given the theme.

[Andrej]

I agree that given the theme a Vig would make sense.

 

Salami I think your claim was a bad idea, however. I questioned Darthe about how that situation would equate because I was hoping to protect the Doc. Mafia wouldn't know necessarily that they struck the Doc, just that they had hit someone who was protected. Whether that was a SP or a well placed protection on another player would be WIFOM'd. Instead now we have 2 PRs on the table.

 

I think it's safe to say that one of you two will be dead before long. Salami you either have to SP for the rest of the game or protect Darthe. Do you have any more shots? I would suggest we try to utilize one this phase before Night comes again.