August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

[lolguy26]

I dont know BG, you tell me 

[hazelkrs1]

Just woke up, I didn't RB nobody, I'm a vanilla here. Stupid to suspect me really, Chuckles. I didn't lead town yesterday, if anything I had an emo attack and wasn't even trying for a bit. I did renew my efforts, but they didn't directly lead others to vote anyone if I recall.

 

So your statement that I was leading town is off the mark. Verbal both instantly backing up your doubt on me without giving reasoning, and then backing it up again after YOU say what the reasoning is should give you a strong Hong at who the remaining scum might be.

[bgrishinko]

A strong Hong, huh?

[lolguy26]

please read back from around page 55 and all your mini cases and all, and people were agreeing with your cases etc

 

oh and who said that you were RBing anyone despo?

[Hallia]

Nope, I'm vanilla as well.  And I echo chuckles' sentiment; what's different?

[hazelkrs1]

So imo it's between Lenlo, BG, and Verb.

 

Was already strongly suspiciopis of Lenlo, cased him days ago.

 

BG claimed RB'er, and you got RB'ed. Looks like our Bus Driver didn't switch targets with you and someone else either, so THAT looks extremely sketchy. Anything BG says at this point I don't truly trust. When scum he is often most devious at being able to manipulate without looking noticeably scummy.

 

Verbal I have had slightly strange suspicions for a while now, and his play towards endgame has been highly questionable imo.

 

Think there's a good chance there's a couple of scum out of those three. Thinking we had 6 original scum.

[hazelkrs1]

A strong Hong, huh?

Lol a strong hunch*

[hazelkrs1]

please read back from around page 55 and all your mini cases and all, and people were agreeing with your cases etc

 

oh and who said that you were RBing anyone despo?

Ahh I misread what you said last page, I thought you were saying you thought I blocked your viewing.

 

That's really sad that you viewed me last night Chuckles. My towniness should have been clearly evident by now. Gah you've made terrible choices for your viewings this game.

 

Although some agreed with some of my cases, they hardly swayed people to my thinking. Go back and check, a lot of people still didn't go along with who I wanted to vote for for a long time. Once again, viewing me was an incredibly poor choice.

[bgrishinko]

Ah well. I guess my hints to you 3 guys aren't helping at all so forget it. I generally trust you 3 a little more than others right now so I addressed you 3 specifically for that reason. Especially Verb/Chuckles, I strongly believe that mafia has a roleblocker in this game. 

 

Whether you believe me or not, I am not a Roleblocker at all. If you recall, I'm Redshirt #3. I'm surprised nobody remembered that or commented on the fact that we had a JailKeeper previously die which is essentially a town roleblocker. I only said that to try and get mafia to mess up the NK in case Serra was telling the truth. Me claiming RBer though gave the mafia the go ahead to feel free and block Chuckles and turn the blame on me. That was an unintended consequence.

 

I just did a full re-read and lost all my quotes. But basically for me it is down to Hally and Lenlo as scum. Verb's had questionable moments but chuckles can vouch for him so I believe it. It should be abundantly clear to anyone who goes back and re-reads the past 3 days or so that Despo and Tina are town as well based on their opinions and arguments with Yates, Nolder, and Serra most the game. Pralaya, meh, I believe your claim. It makes sense as to why a BPV could be killed in 1 night. We still have a mysterious other killer out there that only occasionally strikes and I find it likely that both them and pral's redirect killed him in 1 go unless the mysterious other person shot Krak on previous night.

 

Despo, as for your concern about me, I totally called it the other day and my theories you think were distracting have all pretty much panned out. I pointed out the other day early my top picks were Serra, Pral, Nolder, and Krak. The list got jumbled a bit and Pral dropped off and Hallia jumped on later, but that isn't important.

 

What is important is for us to figure out which of Hallia or Lenlo is scum. I think Lenlo right now as he answered my question forth comingly about whether he'd been blocked or not. Cause he wants people to believe I was the roleblocker and blocks CS.

 

Bam.

 

Vote Lenlo

[hazelkrs1]

Surprisingly enough at that post actually does make me feel a little better about BG as town. Him recanting on the earlier RB claim should ping, but in this context I actually don't find it to be that bad. The claim itself was really oddball, and didn't seem to make much sense. And he's right, we've seen town Jailkeepers, but no town RB'ers flip.

 

And he was opposed to Serra for a while. As for your theories BG, just because they happened to lead to those people (who either flipped as scum or I found scummy), doesn't confirm them. I'll be relatively open to them for the future, but at the time I did find them to be a slight distraction. The hole town was in, we needed a rock solid case on someone that looked scummy. Didn't need to focus on theories at that point imo.

[bgrishinko]

Fair enough.

[WWWwombat]

Alt+0153

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count:

Len (2/5): Des, BG

Not Voting(6/8):
Verb, Chuckles, Hally, Len, Tina, Pralaya

 

1 Day, 23 Hours

 

 

The end of this game is near everyone.  I know it has been a long one, but please pick up the pace to make the conclusion grand.

[Pralaya]

Thought about the possibilities. There are two mafia left - one should be the godfather and the other, not sure, maybe the roleblocker or vengeful killer.

I have huge hunch that Lenlo is one of them. Depending on how this turns out, we need to think about the further steps.

If Lenlo turns out to be the Godfather, then it is easy. Otherwise, it would get tricky.

Chuckles viewing of Verbal is irrelevant if Verb is the Godfather. Actually, I think, at this point of time, a cop is less useful than usual.

Seeing some of the predictable night action choices, I don't think Des or Verbal is mafia.

 

Anyway, vote lenlo

[Niniel]

I believe Pralaya and Chuckles. I have a strong town read on Des. I think BG is town. That leaves Verb, Lenlo and Hally. Verb has been confirmed by Chuckles but as you say, he could be GF. Lenlo and Hally has been so annonymous that it´s hard to get a read on them. Can someone tell me why you pick Lenlo over Hally. 

[Pralaya]

I was mainly drawn to Krak and Lenlo during the Serra claim scenario. Both of them didn't even think about the situation and were too quick to come to the conclusion.

 

Also, if you look at his history, he was in every possible train on D2 - Chuckles, serra and then peace

(http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/83504-november-5-2006-day-6/page-23)

[lolguy26]

eh why are people bringing in GF this close to end game, its a useless wifom 

 

and concerning lenlo, im on the fence i can see him as scum but at the same time i can also see him as lazy town

 

maybe if both lenlo and hal come and give their opinions

 

PS: lenlo is at L2 already 

[bgrishinko]

eh why are people bringing in GF this close to end game, its a useless wifom 

 

and concerning lenlo, im on the fence i can see him as scum but at the same time i can also see him as lazy town

 

maybe if both lenlo and hal come and give their opinions

 

PS: lenlo is at L2 already 

 

That would be helpful indeed. Don't forget the possibility of lazy mafia either. See: Krak.

[Hallia]

So imo it's between Lenlo, BG, and Verb.

 

Was already strongly suspiciopis of Lenlo, cased him days ago.

 

BG claimed RB'er, and you got RB'ed. Looks like our Bus Driver didn't switch targets with you and someone else either, so THAT looks extremely sketchy. Anything BG says at this point I don't truly trust. When scum he is often most devious at being able to manipulate without looking noticeably scummy.

 

Verbal I have had slightly strange suspicions for a while now, and his play towards endgame has been highly questionable imo.

 

Think there's a good chance there's a couple of scum out of those three. Thinking we had 6 original scum.

 

That right there is pretty much enough for me.  I mean, if he claimed it, what's there left to discuss?

 

My town:

Chuckles, Tina, Despo

 

Null: Pral, Len

 

Scum: BG or Verb

[lolguy26]

Right hally dude why do you think BG and verb are scum ?

 

BG you said for his rb claim right ?

[bgrishinko]

Hallia, do you think Verb is a GF then?

[Niniel]

 

So imo it's between Lenlo, BG, and Verb.

 

Was already strongly suspiciopis of Lenlo, cased him days ago.

 

BG claimed RB'er, and you got RB'ed. Looks like our Bus Driver didn't switch targets with you and someone else either, so THAT looks extremely sketchy. Anything BG says at this point I don't truly trust. When scum he is often most devious at being able to manipulate without looking noticeably scummy.

 

Verbal I have had slightly strange suspicions for a while now, and his play towards endgame has been highly questionable imo.

 

Think there's a good chance there's a couple of scum out of those three. Thinking we had 6 original scum.

 

That right there is pretty much enough for me.  I mean, if he claimed it, what's there left to discuss?

 

My town:

Chuckles, Tina, Despo

 

Null: Pral, Len

 

Scum: BG or Verb

 

 

So you think that me and Des are more town than Pralaya? And you think Verbal is GF? Why are you not voting? This is a strange post.

 

Will Lenlo and Verbal check in today? 

[Niniel]

For the record - I think that it´s a possibility that Verb could be GF but I felt like Hallia just names him and BG as scum without any reasons. 

[lolguy26]

After that vote from Hallia I had to check out her posts first. She has 26 posts in this game. 12 of these are pure spam. This is what is left:

 

 

Hallia, still waiting on that case =P

 

That being said, if  the idea is to lynch him in one, then move on to the next thread regardless, wouldn't it be better to only lynch him in 1 at a time, instead of all three simultaneously?

 

 

I think this means that she wanted to lynch Csarmi in one thread at a time. But she never votes him in any of the games so I´m not sure.

 

 

I like how Verbal plays, I would say yes.

 

Serra asked if Verb is a good player and Hallia says yes.

 

 

 

Caught up; good catch!

 

Vote Serra

 

This was when Peace faked the viewing. 

 

You think?  So you don't know, for sure.  I agree with Len, that's pretty anti-town there.

 

Unvote

 

Peace had told that he never viewed Serra.

 

He didn't seem to lose his cool, or spread wifom like fertilizer; I think he did fine?

 

Vote Peace

 

I understand the vote on Peace. But she thinks Serra did fine his response. I don´t know why she thinks that because he barely responded at all. The only thing he said was that he wasn´t mafia.

 

Fair enough, or you were scared that if he flipped town, and you were wrong you'd get strung up?

 

The logic doesn´t really work here. As Peace would say later, if he was mafia he would already know that Serra would flip town.

 

 

 

That you stopped it early makes me lean slightly away, but to answer you, that fear would be mafia I'd say.  Getting someone lynched by saying 'xxx is scum' and for them to flip town is scummy.  

 

Continues...

 

Ahh, I see what you mean peace.  I said if because I don't know his alignment, but yes, as mafia I guess you would know it.

 

And now she see what Peace means.

 

 

 

He did indeed backpedal.

 

This was about Peace. 

 

Summary: She has some strange posts here but her vote is not strange. Peace lied and got lynched for it. 

 

I know right?   First you don't talk enough, then you don't say the right things, no pleasing some people!

 

Answer to Des, I think. 

 

Why wouldn't the doc save from two kills? Doesn't a doc's protection usually mean they're safe from all regular kills (barring things like strongarms?)

 

Well, just a comment about how the doc role works. 

 

Hmm.  The way roles have been named thus far, methinks this was a symp.

 

 

I would agree

 

 

I'm going with Cloud today.  He was early onto the Csarmi lynch with no reasoning really.  Looked opportunistic.   More recently he tried to start a lynch onto Chuckles, who has revealed himself as cop.  And lastly, what caught my eye was the way he tried to defend Peace at first when he was getting run up after the fake viewing on Serra.  It seems to me he was hoping to get some town credit by looking good and not voting for Peace when he seemed to be a sure lynch.  Then it stalled out, and sure enough he hopped onto the train after all as the deadline got closer.  

 

Vote Cloud

 

Her only post yesterday. Gives reasons why she votes Cloud.

 

 

Unvote vote tinker

 

Has been on my scum list along with Ishy. Either would do

 

I don't know about Ish, but I'm pretty comfortable with a tiink vote.

 

Vote Tiink

 

 

Only post this day so far. No reason for her vote.

 

 

 

Summary: Hallia posts very little and half of it is spam. Her votes are not very scummy but she has not given any thoughts at all about players that are not in the main focus. She has mostly just voted for the leading train. Mafia laying low or just not interested town? 

 

 

 

 

 

Fluff is who I am.  I'm fluffy!  And he's a dirty dirty scum.

 

Vote Serra

 

 

Nope, I'm vanilla as well.  And I echo chuckles' sentiment; what's different?

 

 

 

So imo it's between Lenlo, BG, and Verb.

Was already strongly suspiciopis of Lenlo, cased him days ago.

BG claimed RB'er, and you got RB'ed. Looks like our Bus Driver didn't switch targets with you and someone else either, so THAT looks extremely sketchy. Anything BG says at this point I don't truly trust. When scum he is often most devious at being able to manipulate without looking noticeably scummy.

Verbal I have had slightly strange suspicions for a while now, and his play towards endgame has been highly questionable imo.

Think there's a good chance there's a couple of scum out of those three. Thinking we had 6 original scum.

 

That right there is pretty much enough for me.  I mean, if he claimed it, what's there left to discuss?

 

My town:

Chuckles, Tina, Despo

 

Null: Pral, Len

 

Scum: BG or Verb

 

 

 

so we start with tina's case on hally on page 54, and after that we have 3 posts from her, from page 54-67 

 

almost everything she's posted is echoing someone else or just bangwagoning, almost minimal effort and almost impossible to get a read on her 

 

now lenlo 

[lolguy26]

Mini cases:

 

Lenlo:

 

 

 

I think the biggest thing we need to do here is get organised. Being able to organise and effectively cross reference data between threads ((Such as he voted this person for doing this in this thread but didnt vote another person in another thread for doing the exact same thing.)) is going to be invaluable to us.

 

We cant treat these as 3 seperate games either, but 1 game in 3 threads. After all what if say 2 people on a scum team in thread 1 are using threads 2 and 3 for whatever. Plotting, setups, purposeful angering of players... We need to keep track of and use all this extra data were getting.

 

Didn't grab the first one, but Lenlo had a few posts like this early on in the game. Trying to look like a helpful townie.

 

"Come on yall! We gots to get organized!"

 

 

As I said in Thread 1, Csarmi I was against lynching you in all 3 threads but after that explosion not lynching you just wouldnt be worth it. Not only did that jump you up on my scumdar but it also makes you the most informative lynch in all 3 threads.

 

Vote Csarmi

 

 

Overstates how much he didn't want to lynch Csarlami at first, but the meltdown apparently pinged for him. Also just NOW catches on to the idea of the Csarlami metalynch being good for info? Don't buy it.

 

Eh... Im not seeing the Serra case. I see the language he was using and I dont think its a setup for a mass claim. Why setup in such an obvious way when it would be better if you outright said "I want a mass claim". Doesnt make sense to me.

 

Vote BG

 

To me it really looks like BG is forcing us to look at what Serra is saying in a way that he didnt mean for it to. Id be willing to switch to Cloud later, but I dont want to lynch Serra on that crap.

 

Ahhh I knew I missed one of the people fos'ing BG there for a bit. I think the votes and fos's on BG were a scum push on him.

 

He also defends Serra really strongly in this one. Also I highly disagree with his reasoning re: Serra's massclaim idea. Sounds too much like "Mafia would never do that" type argument, which is dumb.

 

 

 

unvote

 

Ok now im not sure what to do. Neither of you have any viewings we can test and there seems to have been an epidemic of fake claiming cop going around lately.

 

This stood out to me though. Len believed that I was mafia and that's why he voted for me, but afterwards when I obviously fake claimed to be the Cop he unvoted and said that he was torn on who to believe. I think he might be scum.

 

So because I was hesitant to not believe you I might be scum? If you havnt noticed my feelings on whos scum havnt exactly been good this game, so excuse me if im abit worried about who I lynch when they are claiming cop in a set of games where fake claiming has been rampant.

 

 

The ONE thing Cloud might have gotten right yesterday was his notice of this by Lenlo, how lenlo immediately unvoted. Literally EVERYONE else saw that Cloud's move made NO sense, that a Cop would never self vote. Lenlo was the one who wanted to appear cautious, then gets very prickly after being called out on it.

 

Vote cloud

 

Now hes hammered.

 

Prickliness continues. Lenlo seems to get too emotionally invested in every vote (hammer vote? Wasn't he the hammer on both Cloud and Csarlami?), or at least wants us to believe he's that emotionally invested.

 

 

 

How much did they pay you?

Got a counteroffer?

 

 

 

Seems pretty aloof. This is minor, but still. I think he's almost in gloat mode about his team being close to winning.

 

 

 

Hallia:

 

 

 

You think?  So you don't know, for sure.  I agree with Len, that's pretty anti-town there.

 

Unvote

 

Agrees with Lenlo, one of the first people to fos Peace. Not much here, but meh there's not much you CAN glean from most of her posts.

 

He didn't seem to lose his cool, or spread wifom like fertilizer; I think he did fine?

 

Vote Peace

 

Defends Serra, and votes Peace, doesn't really give any clear reasoning.

 

 

My scum list atm:

Ishy - mainly for that exchange with Peace where he seemed like something was slowly dawning on him... that looked like way too fake of a reaction to the situation

GFY? EAD?

 

 

 

I know right?   First you don't talk enough, then you don't say the right things, no pleasing some people!

 

 

Covered this in the Ishy case, but yeah, sticks up for Ishy for pretty much no reason. Makes me think they were talking earlier on the QT about stuff like this.

 

I'm going with Cloud today.  He was early onto the Csarmi lynch with no reasoning really.  Looked opportunistic.   More recently he tried to start a lynch onto Chuckles, who has revealed himself as cop.  And lastly, what caught my eye was the way he tried to defend Peace at first when he was getting run up after the fake viewing on Serra.  It seems to me he was hoping to get some town credit by looking good and not voting for Peace when he seemed to be a sure lynch.  Then it stalled out, and sure enough he hopped onto the train after all as the deadline got closer.

 

Vote Cloud

 

Just awful, AWFUL reasoning in this post.

 

Bold:  Cloud stated his reasoning on the Csarlami lynch multiple times.

 

Italics: Why would that be relevant? He, along with me and Nol and others I think, were on Chuckles BEFORE he claimed Cop. The fact that he claimed cop afterwards doesn't mean diddly squat as far as any of our alignments go. Town is uninformed, remember?

 

Underlined: At that point, it looked like Peace was going to be the only lynch anyways.

 

Extremely weak reasoning for a vote on Cloud, especially considering there was much better reasoning out there.

 

 

Unvote vote tinker

 

Has been on my scum list along with Ishy. Either would do

 

I don't know about Ish, but I'm pretty comfortable with a tiink vote.

 

Vote Tiink

 

 

 

Another awful vote, and no stated reasons. WHY are you comfortable with this vote Hallia?

 

 

 

 

 

Alright ive been packing and getting ready to leave these past few days so im starting to catch up now. Sorry about that.

 

 

 

The math is in front of you. 3 deaths yes but if one of them is Mafia then it's not game over. A wrong lynch now with 2 deaths is.

The math your ignoring. Hes saying what if there is 2 NKs and a VK? Suddenly thats 4 dead, 1 being mafia *if* Serra flips scum VK which im not convinced by.

 

Vote Tiink

 

I dont think lynching prayla is an option at all and between Tiink and Serra Tiink is a much better lynch in my mind. He speaks of math but ignores facts that makes his math wrong. 

 

 

 

So turns out hotel has wifi. I'll be walking around most of the day though so ill be on for maybe 10-20 min each night.

 

Vote Serra and this is what happens when scum go for the easy win. Gotta love mod kills.

 

 

I've bit no power so no I have not been RBed. If BG didn't block Chuckles though then why did he get RBed?

 

Chuckles does it say you we're RBed or did you just get no result?

 

So top quote is despo's case on lenlo and after that hally's case 

 

and the next quotes are all of lenlo's posts from around page 53-67

 

So he says he was busy packing

next he bangwagons tinkers train

then he pops in and votes serra 

then i think he had a derp moment cuz unless im mistaken, when your RBed, you get "no result", you dont get "you have been RBed"  

 

again, just like hally, very lurky and very hard to get a read on either of them