How powerful is Nynaeve with that angreal of hers?

[EmperorAllspice]

 

 I really can't remember her acting all that cowardly. I'm just told she is endlessly.

 

ACoS

She raised her hands, but as balefire launched itself, something flashed around her and she jerked. Moridin had come; he was there, and he would... She stared at the pigeons fluttering away. Pigeons! She nearly spewed the contents of her stomach across the roof. A glance at the river made her snarl.

   Because she had jerked, the balefire she meant to slice through cabin and passenger instead had sliced diagonally through the middle of the boat, about where the oarsmen had stood, and the bodyguards. Because the rowers had been burned out of the Pattern before the balefire struck, the two halves of the craft were now a good hundred paces back up the river. Then again, perhaps it was not a complete disaster. Because that slice from the boat’s center had gone at the same time the boatmen really died, the river had had minutes to rush in. The two parts of the boat sank out of sight in a great froth of bubbles even as her eyes shifted to them, carrying their passenger to the depths.

   Suddenly, what she had done struck her. She had always moved in the dim places, always kept herself hidden, always... Any woman in the city who could channel would know someone had drawn a great deal of saidar, if not for what, and any eye watching had seen that bar of liquid white fire sear across the afternoon. Fear gave her wings. Not fear. Terror.

   Gathering her skirts, she ran back down the stairs, ran through the common room Bumping into tables and careering off people trying to get out her way, ran into the street too frightened to think, battering a path through the crowd with her hands.

   "Run!" she shrieked, hurling herself into the sedan chair. Her skirts caught in the door; she ripped them free. "Run!"

 

In the AoL Mogi was a crooked financial advisor. That always makes me chuckle for some reason. Below is what the BWB says about her:

 

Actually, her having that much fear in her makes me consider her less of a coward.

 

Egwene was so disgusted by the amount of fear in her that it made her take off the A'dam bracelet. How could a person living with that much fear even FUNCTION?

 

She basically lives her life as a spy. How agonizing must living as a spy with that much terror in her feel?

[False Dragon1991]

Alivia and the random aes sedai examples are minor characters; we are talking about the supergirls. You know, the main female characters.

 

Why focus on blocking when you can blow somebody up?

 

Egwene has one fight against a small seanchan raid in 13 books and you think this is a good example? 

 

Firstly, its dues ex machina that there are that many ways of blocking a womans channeling to neutralise the supergirls abilities. It happens far too often, almost always whenever they actually are attacked and this lasts the entire series. This would be like if Superman never got to use his powers because he is ALWAYS attacked by people with kryptonite.

 

Theres no reason why the supergirls using their powers would be "easy". Fighting Black Ajah would be a challenge, they don't have to always fight Forsaken. Although it is worth pointing out that Moraine, a much weaker channeler, kills a forsaken; so its far from unprecedented.

 

How is a staring competition and using your imagination fighting?

 

 

I honestly don't get why people think that giving them a few actual fight scenes is the same as saying I would have liked a fight every page. That is not what I am saying. The supergirls NEVER fight when you consider how long this book series is and there is always some excuse why they can't just kill things. I don't know, maybe the author decided that having the supergirls kill or be powerful was inappropriate.

[Plato]

Now that you mention it, does seem strange that considering the grand scope of things, only the men fight in EVERY book (usually more than once), while the women almost never.  Maybe women are better at reasoning things out? :P

 

On an aside, Egwene racks up a nice kill list of black ajah BEFORE the last battle, when she executes them in her camp and in tower.

[False Dragon1991]

Thats only because she uses her authoratae. :D

[Suttree]

Mot sure you are that clear on the concept of deus ex.

[MasterAblar]

 

Why focus on blocking when you can blow somebody up?

 

 

Because they might blow you up at the same time? There's not much point to mutual destruction. If you're asking why you'd capture someone instead of killing them, probably for information.

 

 

Egwene has one fight against a small seanchan raid in 13 books and you think this is a good example? 

 

Falme, the Whitecloaks, the fades on the way to Tear, the BA at the Stone and then the darkfiends, Cairhien... Then she becomes Amyrlin and obviously the opportunity for blowing people up are rarer. Besides Egwene has been in training up until LoC. It wouldn't make sense for her to be going into fights all the time.

 

 

Firstly, its dues ex machina that there are that many ways of blocking a womans channeling to neutralise the supergirls abilities. It happens far too often, almost always whenever they actually are attacked and this lasts the entire series. This would be like if Superman never got to use his powers because he is ALWAYS attacked by people with kryptonite.

 

There aren't that many ways. Adam, gholam, forkroot, and special terangeals such as Cadsuane's are all that exist to block channelling. Oh and the guardian at Far Madding. The gholam blocks all channelling, so do the terangeals and the guardian and forkroot. There's even male adams, they're just not common because there weren't any male channellers, or very few, until now. The reason saidar is blocked more often than saidin, is because male channellers have just recently reappeared in number, and they're in a strictly controlled organisation.

 

 

Theres no reason why the supergirls using their powers would be "easy". Fighting Black Ajah would be a challenge, they don't have to always fight Forsaken. Although it is worth pointing out that Moraine, a much weaker channeler, kills a forsaken; so its far from unprecedented.

 

Moiraine got in 2 lucky shots. Going into a battle expecting to win by luck is something no one should do, unless their name is Mat Cauthon. As for the BA, they occasionally run into them. But for the most part the BA are focused on the WT, which is exactly where the supergirls are not for the majority of the books. Egwene is there from the 6th book onwards, but the BA plan is to keep her in place and keep the tower divided so obviously they wouldn't attack her, and Egwene has now way of finding them until the 12th book.

 

 

How is a staring competition and using your imagination fighting?

 

Just because it isn't flashy doesn't mean a fight isn't happening. Arm wrestling is a way of fighting, but it's not particularly flashy.

 

 

 

I honestly don't get why people think that giving them a few actual fight scenes is the same as saying I would have liked a fight every page. That is not what I am saying. The supergirls NEVER fight when you consider how long this book series is and there is always some excuse why they can't just kill things. I don't know, maybe the author decided that having the supergirls kill or be powerful was inappropriate.

 

The only excuse is that opportunities are not particularly numerous for them, and the fact that Aes Sedai can't iniate a fight unless it's against the shadow. That's pretty restrictive considering their roles in the story.

[Rhienne]

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't get why people think that giving them a few actual fight scenes is the same as saying I would have liked a fight every page. That is not what I am saying. The supergirls NEVER fight when you consider how long this book series is and there is always some excuse why they can't just kill things. I don't know, maybe the author decided that having the supergirls kill or be powerful was inappropriate.

 

The only excuse is that opportunities are not particularly numerous for them, and the fact that Aes Sedai can't iniate a fight unless it's against the shadow. That's pretty restrictive considering their roles in the story.

 

Completely agree with the rest of your post, but Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve are not bound by the oaths until very late in the series, and don't start consciously making an effort to stick to the oaths until fairly late in the series (APoD onwards for Egwene, when she changes her mind about the oath rod, and a little later for Elayne, I think).  Additonally, Aviendha has no connection with the oaths but doens't seem to do much OP fighting either.

[MasterAblar]

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't get why people think that giving them a few actual fight scenes is the same as saying I would have liked a fight every page. That is not what I am saying. The supergirls NEVER fight when you consider how long this book series is and there is always some excuse why they can't just kill things. I don't know, maybe the author decided that having the supergirls kill or be powerful was inappropriate.

 

The only excuse is that opportunities are not particularly numerous for them, and the fact that Aes Sedai can't iniate a fight unless it's against the shadow. That's pretty restrictive considering their roles in the story.

 

Completely agree with the rest of your post, but Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve are not bound by the oaths until very late in the series, and don't start consciously making an effort to stick to the oaths until fairly late in the series (APoD onwards for Egwene, when she changes her mind about the oath rod, and a little later for Elayne, I think).  Additonally, Aviendha has no connection with the oaths but doens't seem to do much OP fighting either.

 

 

I figured they all tried to stick to the oaths from the moment they became Aes Sedai in LoC. Even if Egwene wanted to do away with them, it remained the law for the time being. I hadn't considered Aviendha. She sticks with Elayne for LoC onward so it's not suprising that she doesn't do too much fighting. That said she did participate in the assault on Caemlyn for instance, and there was Cairhien, and Lanfear... I guess the moral of the story is, if you want a lot of chances to fight, stay near Rand. He's like a lightning rod for trouble.

[Yamezt]

Completely agree with the rest of your post, but Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve are not bound by the oaths until very late in the series, and don't start consciously making an effort to stick to the oaths until fairly late in the series (APoD onwards for Egwene, when she changes her mind about the oath rod, and a little later for Elayne, I think).  Additonally, Aviendha has no connection with the oaths but doens't seem to do much OP fighting either.

 

 

Until LoC, WO do not participate in battles either. If anything, the Shaido were shocked that Sorilea managed to gather the other WO to join in battle.

 

Granted, the WO are more lenient in letting their apprentice join in battles. But the same can be said of Moiraine not stopping Egwene from participating in battle with the Aiel.

[False Dragon1991]

Falme=running away with style before switching to Rands POV

 

Whitecloaks-Intimidation and a gaff for laughs. Not a real fight.

 

The Fades-Three Myrdaal? Yes, a very, very rare example of them being allowed to blow something up; after they are easily knocked out by some bandits. An event which is NEVER repeated. From this point on all of their captors/assasians are either immune to the One Power or have some means of neutralising it.

 

They never fought the BA at the stone. Once again, it is all about shielding, blocking and dreaming. I don't get why Moghedian is allowed to balefire Nynaeve hit n run style but the supergirls never think to do the same. They later get involved in Rands fight both then and later when the shadowspawn attack; but this all happens off screen because the focus flicks to what Rand is doing in every instance.

 

Cairhein is a good example of this. That is a Rand chapter where the womens presence is incidental.

 

 

Yes, there aren't that many. Yet, notice how they are ALWAYS used against the supergirls as a means of preventing a situation where they can just look at the assailant and kill them.

 

Not just flashy. Killing things with fireballs and lightning signifies that you are powerful. If you just have the female channelers do supporting roles, get captured ALL the time, have their powers neutralized all the time then they look weak. 

 

That is still a pitiful number of examples and you really are stretching the definition of a fight here. You have male characters who kill thousands of enemies in this series, literally; killing 3 myrdaal is a pathetic achievement. We see regular minor characters kill multiple Myrdaal with regular swords for christ sake.

 

 

Why are there no instances of fighting? Why does the shadow bother being subtle for 13 books? If Ashaman can try to assasinate Rand by blowing up Cairhein then WTF can't the BA do that to Elayne? Oh, because she is not allowed to fight, they piss about trying to capture her with non-violent methods. Oh, surely if Rand can blow up an army without an angreal then three supergirls with angreals can kill a few hundred seanchan and a dozen damane. No, the supergirls have to be weak and pathetic and run away like scared little girls. Because they're not allowed to fight and kill. Matt and Perrin get into fights ALL the time even on their otherwise long arcs without compromising the story. Its just the girls simply aren't allowed to fight for 13 books. All 3 of the taveren are both strong fighters at arms or the OP with ample opportunity to demonstrate this and still fulfill their leadership roles without any problem. 

[Agitel]

There's the battle in the Tower in TAR in Towers of Midnight, too. Eggy and Nyn. Excuse the strikeout

[Agitel]

Alright, there is an unbalance, but you're taking this to absurdity now.

 

.

[MasterAblar]

 

They never fought the BA at the stone. Once again, it is all about shielding, blocking and dreaming. I don't get why Moghedian is allowed to balefire Nynaeve hit n run style but the supergirls never think to do the same. They later get involved in Rands fight both then and later when the shadowspawn attack; but this all happens off screen because the focus flicks to what Rand is doing in every instance.

 

 

Well, balefire is a forbidden weave for one. And because the occasion simply never presents itself.

 

 

 

Yes, there aren't that many. Yet, notice how they are ALWAYS used against the supergirls as a means of preventing a situation where they can just look at the assailant and kill them.

 

Egwene had the adam used on her once and forkroot once as well while she was in the WT. Elayne had forkroot used on her twice and fought the gholam once. Nyneave had forkroot used on her once. That's really not that much. Rand had the male adam used on him once as well.

 

 

 

Not just flashy. Killing things with fireballs and lightning signifies that you are powerful. If you just have the female channelers do supporting roles, get captured ALL the time, have their powers neutralized all the time then they look weak. 

 

It also shows distinct lack of knowledge in destructive weaves. Fireballs and lighting is rather basic. Rand and Lanfear used nothing but spirit when they fought each other. Neither of them are weak. On the other hand the supergirls, well mostly Egwene really, do have a bad tendancy of getting captured

 

 

 

That is still a pitiful number of examples and you really are stretching the definition of a fight here. You have male characters who kill thousands of enemies in this series, literally; killing 3 myrdaal is a pathetic achievement. We see regular minor characters kill multiple Myrdaal with regular swords for christ sake.

 

You have one male character who's killed thousands of enemies. Just Rand. Regardless, none of the supergirls are soldiers. They're supposed to be on the frontlines blowing things up, even if they can. First because in most instance they're not allowed to, and second because their position typically keep out of fights.

 

 

 

Why are there no instances of fighting? Why does the shadow bother being subtle for 13 books? If Ashaman can try to assasinate Rand by blowing up Cairhein then WTF can't the BA do that to Elayne? Oh, because she is not allowed to fight, they piss about trying to capture her with non-violent methods.

 

Because doing that would run the risk of ending the conflict in Andor, which is excatly what the Shadow doesn't want.

 

 

 

Oh, surely if Rand can blow up an army without an angreal then three supergirls with angreals can kill a few hundred seanchan and a dozen damane.

 

When did the supergirls have the opportunity to do this? And having channellers in the army you're trying to destroy makes a big difference. In any case Rand has LTT's knowledge, obviously he's far more dangerous.

 

 

 

 No, the supergirls have to be weak and pathetic and run away like scared little girls. Because they're not allowed to fight and kill. Matt and Perrin get into fights ALL the time even on their otherwise long arcs without compromising the story. Its just the girls simply aren't allowed to fight for 13 books. All 3 of the taveren are both strong fighters at arms or the OP with ample opportunity to demonstrate this and still fulfill their leadership roles without any problem. 

 

Rand, Mat and Perrin are taveren. They attract trouble by their very nature and the Shadow goes after them more than anyone else. They're not really a standard to be compared to. 

[Yamezt]

Am I right to conclude then that that your Egwene's thread should really read  "Egwene's Arc is Montrously Long Because she did not blow enough stuff up"

 

In any case, there are many things about the OP from the Supergirls that, on a personal level, I enjoyed more than blowing things up (after a while blowing things up becomes like a bad B-Grade sci fic movie where every solution is a nuke):

Healing Stilling;

Removing Compulsion;

Healing Madness;

Creation of Ter'angreal;

Reasoning out Gateways;

A tweaked ward against eavesdropping to give the impression that they are whispering in a distance;

Creating Cuendillar (and the fact that it was a cool discovery and an amazingly boring task to do);

Unweaving;

The circle to fix the weather;

 

From other saidar channellers:

Verin's naughty compulsion;

Monelle's carress the child (or something to that effect);

Moiraine's blue ajah fear weave (which imo is a variation of compulsion).

[False Dragon1991]

@Ablar-

 

Thats is a lot of instances of the supergirls having their powers taken away by plot devices. Especially since these are often the only times they are in danger.

 

They had the opportunity when they used the Bowl of Winds and in the attack on Ebou Dar itself. However, with the latter they avoid detection easily (somehow) and in the former they decide to make a hasty flight, potentially leaving behind many Kinswomen because the rapid response strike force of the Seanchan is attacking them. A few hundred men with a dozen damane is enough to scare them off. They have angreal and are a lot more powerful than the damane anyway. This should tell. We are told that angreal make a massive difference. I fully expected that after they had literally just been given a massive power boost with those angreal you would finally get to see them do something useful to demonstrate. Instead, no, they just do exactly what they always have done which is run away and hide.

 

The author should have made more situations where they were required to use their abilities and not invent all these situations where the supergirls can never use their powers or always have this happen off-screen in a Rand POV for 13 books. The occasion should present itself more often than it does. 

 

@Agitel- You don't think its absurd that four main female POV characters over the course of 13 books do virtually no fighting in a series which places great emphasis on use of the One Power, battles and their personal danger? [Removed]

 

 

One of the main reasons I got into this series was because people said it has strong female characters and OTT magic in it. Apparently only the latter is the case since the women never get to use destruction magic for 13 books and the women are always shown as doing supporting roles in between getting captured or running away.

[Mr Ares]

Why focus on blocking when you can blow somebody up?

I could as easily ask the reverse: why focus on blowing somebody up when you can block someone. Consider the Aiel belief that touching an armed opponent while you are unarmed earns more ji than merely killing. Killing people is not the be all and end all of combat. Just because no-one died doesn't mean a fight didn't take place.

 

They never fought the BA at the stone. Once again, it is all about shielding, blocking and dreaming.

These can all be considered valid components of a fight.

 

Not just flashy. Killing things with fireballs and lightning signifies that you are powerful. If you just have the female channelers do supporting roles, get captured ALL the time, have their powers neutralized all the time then they look weak.

Killing things is a form of power. Not a form that the girls ever rely on as their primary means of exerting power, but one they have had to use on occasion. Let's say that I could beat Barack Obama in a fight - does that mean that he is not powerful? Of course not. It merely means that his powers in the field of unarmed combat are less than mine (well, maybe not even that much - it could just mean that I got lucky). Egwene is primarily a politician in the latter half of the series, and a student before that. In neither case is martial prowess the means by which her power should be measured. Nynaeve is a healer, among other things. Mat is a soldier, Rand a warrior-king. The characters express their power in different ways. Not using the "blowing stuff up" manifestation of power doesn't make you weak, not when your power lies in other areas. Yes, the women could have been given more opportunity to cut loose and toss fireballs around, but there is no reason why they need to. Them doing so is as valid a choice as them not.

 

That is still a pitiful number of examples and you really are stretching the definition of a fight here.

No, you're artificially restricting it.

 

Why does the shadow bother being subtle for 13 books? If Ashaman can try to assasinate Rand by blowing up Cairhein then WTF can't the BA do that to Elayne? Oh, because she is not allowed to fight, they piss about trying to capture her with non-violent methods. Oh, surely if Rand can blow up an army without an angreal then three supergirls with angreals can kill a few hundred seanchan and a dozen damane. No, the supergirls have to be weak and pathetic and run away like scared little girls. Because they're not allowed to fight and kill. Matt and Perrin get into fights ALL the time even on their otherwise long arcs without compromising the story. Its just the girls simply aren't allowed to fight for 13 books. All 3 of the taveren are both strong fighters at arms or the OP with ample opportunity to demonstrate this and still fulfill their leadership roles without any problem.

Subtle is frequently better than overt. The BA could try to blow up the WT and kill Egwene, but they have no promise of success, any more than the Asha'man did, and they risk exposure. They don't want to be investigated. They don't want to be known of, when they can be dismissed as a rumour. What happens when the other AS can no longer say "there is no Black Ajah", because they no longer believe it to be true? For thousands of years, secrecy has been their greatest asset.

 

They had the opportunity when they used the Bowl of Winds and in the attack on Ebou Dar itself. However, with the latter they avoid detection easily (somehow) and in the former they decide to make a hasty flight, potentially leaving behind many Kinswomen because the rapid response strike force of the Seanchan is attacking them. A few hundred men with a dozen damane is enough to scare them off. They have angreal and are a lot more powerful than the damane anyway. This should tell. We are told that angreal make a massive difference. I fully expected that after they had literally just been given a massive power boost with those angreal you would finally get to see them do something useful to demonstrate. Instead, no, they just do exactly what they always have done which is run away and hide.

Standing and fighting gains them what? They might win, but there's no guarantee it will be quick, and delays give the Seanchan time to reinforce, and use their greater numbers to turn the tide. Also, the damane are better fighters anyway. Angreal are useful, but strength alone is not the sole factor in determining the outcome of a fight.

 

The author should have made more situations where they were required to use their abilities and not invent all these situations where the supergirls can never use their powers or always have this happen off-screen in a Rand POV for 13 books. The occasion should present itself more often than it does.

Could, not should.

 

@Agitel- You don't think its absurd that four main female POV characters over the course of 13 books do virtually no fighting in a series which places great emphasis on use of the One Power, battles and their personal danger? I feel like I am talking to a brick wall and repeat the same thing because you don't seem to fully accept or acknowledge just how absurd that actually is. You are only saying that there are a handful of fights in 13 books and listing all the reasons why they cannot fight and why the situation never arises.

A character can have a valid story without blowing things up. One might make an argument about the underlying sexism of things - men get to blow things up, which is unsuitable for women - but women do get opportunities which they take advantage of, and men don't exactly prize the ability to destroy.

 

One of the main reasons I got into this series was because people said it has strong female characters and OTT magic in it. Apparently only the latter is the case since the women never get to use destruction magic for 13 books and the women are always shown as doing supporting roles in between getting captured or running away.

There's more to "strong female characters" than blowing things up. The fact the the women don't get as much chance to destroy doesn't make them weak. Especially when you consider that none of the men places huge value on their ability to destroy. Perrin discards the axe for the hammer (pure destruction for a tool which can create as well as destroy), and Rand creates universities so that he will leave behind a legacy which is more than just the Dragon breaking the world again.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Remember that people disagree. Opinions are subjective, and if someone doesn't agree after both sides expressing their view, just agree to disagree. 

 

There need not be one "right" answer. 

[MasterAblar]

 

They had the opportunity when they used the Bowl of Winds and in the attack on Ebou Dar itself. However, with the latter they avoid detection easily (somehow) and in the former they decide to make a hasty flight, potentially leaving behind many Kinswomen because the rapid response strike force of the Seanchan is attacking them. A few hundred men with a dozen damane is enough to scare them off. They have angreal and are a lot more powerful than the damane anyway. This should tell. We are told that angreal make a massive difference. I fully expected that after they had literally just been given a massive power boost with those angreal you would finally get to see them do something useful to demonstrate. Instead, no, they just do exactly what they always have done which is run away and hide.

 

 

Aren't those the same situation? In any case most of the Kin are useless in battle, and a lot of them have pathetic channelling ability. You think it's best for them, along with angreal buffed Nyneave and Elayne to take on dozens of damane, who unlike the Kin are trained as weapons, and hundreds of soldiers, with the all too real posibility that the strike force would be reinforced? The Seanchan could easily surround them with their superior mobility. Elayne and Nyneave's superior strength would mean nothing when they would be outnumbered to such an extent. Sure they might kill a bunch of Seanchan, but at the cost of either their lives or their freedom. Retreat was the smart option.

 

 

 

The author should have made more situations where they were required to use their abilities and not invent all these situations where the supergirls can never use their powers or always have this happen off-screen in a Rand POV for 13 books. The occasion should present itself more often than it does. 

 

He could have, but there's no reason to create such a situation for no more justification than to see the supergirls blow things up.

 

 

 

You don't think its absurd that four main female POV characters over the course of 13 books do virtually no fighting in a series which places great emphasis on use of the One Power, battles and their personal danger? 

 

Considering the roles of these female characters are not warriors or soldiers or anything of the sort, yes it makes sense they would less fighting than other characters.

 

 

 

One of the main reasons I got into this series was because people said it has strong female characters and OTT magic in it. Apparently only the latter is the case since the women never get to use destruction magic for 13 books and the women are always shown as doing supporting roles in between getting captured or running away.

 

Cersei Lannister doesn't do any fighting personally. Is she not a strong female character? Dany never does any fighting personally. Is she not a strong female character?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also remember the characters don't want to kill people. They want to avoid killing if possible. Just because they can kill, they would prefer to reduce the bloodshed. A far more admirable trait than a bloodthirsty killer. It shows far more bravery and strength to chose the high road instead of just blowing everything up. 

[Yamezt]

 

 

They had the opportunity when they used the Bowl of Winds and in the attack on Ebou Dar itself. However, with the latter they avoid detection easily (somehow) and in the former they decide to make a hasty flight, potentially leaving behind many Kinswomen because the rapid response strike force of the Seanchan is attacking them. A few hundred men with a dozen damane is enough to scare them off. They have angreal and are a lot more powerful than the damane anyway. This should tell. We are told that angreal make a massive difference. I fully expected that after they had literally just been given a massive power boost with those angreal you would finally get to see them do something useful to demonstrate. Instead, no, they just do exactly what they always have done which is run away and hide.

 

 

Aren't those the same situation? In any case most of the Kin are useless in battle, and a lot of them have pathetic channelling ability. You think it's best for them, along with angreal buffed Nyneave and Elayne to take on dozens of damane, who unlike the Kin are trained as weapons, and hundreds of soldiers, with the all too real posibility that the strike force would be reinforced? The Seanchan could easily surround them with their superior mobility. Elayne and Nyneave's superior strength would mean nothing when they would be outnumbered to such an extent. Sure they might kill a bunch of Seanchan, but at the cost of either their lives or their freedom. Retreat was the smart option.

 

The thirteen strongest of them were clearly exhausted. Elayne was exhausted to the point a Damane who should not have the strength to shield her, manages to.

 

In any case, the Damane is always an interesting thing. There is a lot of pity for the Damane and it is difficult to try and neutralise Damane than kill them. Even in the battle of the WT Egwene  only manages to capture 10, and instructs Adelorna that it is easier to kill than capture.

 

You also have to take into account Tower Law and Custom. AS do not mete out summary justice. They are forbidden by law to gentle men who can channel without trial in the tower. They always try to bring BA back for trial. Personally I think the Laws and Custom makes it a lot more interesting. 

[Suttree]

There need not be one "right" answer.

True but when one side continues to ignore examples, move goal posts and narrow parameters to make their view fit?

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

There need not be one "right" answer.

True but when one side continues to ignnore examples, move goal posts and narrow parameters to make their view fit?

 

 

Agree to disagree and move on. 

 

If that's the case, there's little chance you would convince them anyway. 

 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, and if it is flawed, the discussion will prove it for all the readers. 

 

I'm not saying to stop discussion, I mentioned this because things were getting heated. 

 

BTW: This is hypothetical. I'm not referring to anything in this thread, but answering the question. 

[David Selig]

 Personally most channelling fights bore me to tears and I like that there aren't many of those in the Supergirls plotlines. But it's quite contrived and implausible that Nynaeve and Elayne spend 7 books travelling around Randland, chasing and evading villains, getting into dangerous situations, having the power to destroy whole buildings with ease, yet neither of them killed anyone except by accident when the Gateway unravelled, and they very rarely got directly involved in any kind of combat. In comparison Mat and Perrin, in TDR alone, managed to kill a whole bunch of people, before they became war leaders and get involved in campaigns.

[Rhienne]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the supergirls really have no training with aggressive weaves and don't feel that fighting is the easiest way for them to solve their problems?  Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve had training at the WT, which definitely doesn't focus on using the OP as a weapon, and Egwene had extra training with the Wise Ones, but this was more for Dreaming and the Wise Ones (at this point) didn't get involved in fighting so wouldn't know many combat weaves.  They are facing damane (trained with the OP as a weapon) and/or Black Sisters and the Forsaken (who have probably had training or at least knowledge of some combat or unpleasant weaves).  Beyond lightning and fire they probably wouldn't be very confident in a fight.  Nynaeve might be the exception to this, as she figured out how to use balefire.

[Agitel]

and Egwene had extra training with the Wise Ones, but this was more for Dreaming and the Wise Ones (at this point) didn't get involved in fighting so wouldn't know many combat weaves.  

 

The Wise Ones don't use the OP as a weapon either, though they don't take binding oaths. Wise Ones are non-combatants. They can cross active battlefields and go untouched. They are how clans and septs at war with each other retain diplomatic ties.