How do the Seanchan have so many damane if they have a limited number of Suldam?

[False Dragon1991]

Every suldam has to be Seanchan and usually they always come in pairs. Since they're not recruiting locals to be suldam and the empire has been destroyed by Semihurge how come the Seanchan are able to keep harvesting all these extra damane? Especially with them suffering losses in battle. Every suldam should be irreplaceable and putting an ever lowering cap on how many damane they can have in the field. 

[Suttree]

There have always been many more sul'dam than damane as there are many more learers than sparkers, they do not usually come in pairs. In addition why would you think they aren't testing locals? They test every woman of age in their territories.

[False Dragon1991]

There have always been many more sul'dam than damane as there are many more learers than sparkers, they do not usually come in pairs. In addition why would you think they aren't testing locals? They test every woman of age in their territories.

 

We haven't seen any suldam who are locals but we see lots of captured women who can channel (I've read up to Knife of Dreams). Presumably they aren't doing it, especially if, as you point out, there are more learners than sparkers. I guess it has to do with issues of loyalty and the fact that few women in Randland agree with the Seanchan attitude towards female channelers. Unless you were a sadist there wouldn't be any appeal in becoming a suldam. I find it hard to believe that Randland suldam wouldn't have been mentioned by this point if they did exist, even in Seanchan POVs. This limits the amount of suldam they have and the amount of damane that could be fielded.

 

Its said that they test everyone back in Seanchan. In Randland its only said that they round up all channelers; not those who could be suldam.

[Suttree]

We are told they test every woman of age in the conquered territories they hold, same as back home. As for not agreeing the populace didn't have much of a problem with the practice as Thom points out. AS are not well loved in many places:

 

KoD

  “They didn’t spit when they said the name, Mat. They didn’t grimace or growl. They won’t fight the Seanchan, not unless Nathin tells them to, and he won’t.” Thorn exhaled heavily. “It’s very strange. I’ve found the same everywhere from Ebou Dar to here. These outlanders come, take charge, impose their laws, snatch up women who can channel. and if the nobles resent them, very few among the common people seem to. Unless they’ve had wife or relation collared, anyway.

 

Regardless we know that:

 

BWB

In the course of nature there are always many more sul’dam than damane. Because of this it is not unusual for a damane to have many different sul’dam over the course of her lifetime.

 

It is stated a number of times throughout the books that there are many more sul'dam than damane. There is no issue here.

[False Dragon1991]

Is there any reference in the text to there being a Randland suldam? I still maintain that they would have been mentioned if they existed and there just isn't any reference whilst all the collared damane are pointed out repeatedly. Also, I don't think its mentioned either that they are conscripting or testing for suldam in Randland.  

 

 

Theres a difference between tolerance of the occupiers and becoming a sadistic suldam who tortures women for fun. They don't believe female channelers are animals like the seanchan so its unlikely that many women would become suldam even if they partly disliked aes sedai. 

[Rhienne]

 

 

Is there any reference in the text to there being a Randland suldam? I still maintain that they would have been mentioned if they existed and there just isn't any reference whilst all the collared damane are pointed out repeatedly.

I kind of assumed that they would catch both potential sul'dam and potential damane during the testing process.  But it is an interesting observation that there doesn't seem to be any mention of non-Seanchan sul'dam.  I can't think of coming across one, anyway.  Maybe they are all still in training?  I think it would certainly have been quite an interesting thing to explore, as you could end up with friends or acquaintances essentially having to control each other/treat each other like animals.  I'm not sure how well this would work as sul'dam seem to be given a lot of respect, so I don't know how that would balance out with the possible/probable reluctance of non-Sanchan learners to control and punish damane.

[Thornan]

I would submit that the reason we didn't see any randland suldam is because there were none. I see no reason that the seanchan would have tested women on this side of the ocean. Remember that they have no knowledge of the connection between suldam and channeling. Even the lands that were under seanchan control were not loyal for a great deal of time. Thinking a land is secure under your rule and handing the natives your most powerful weapons are far from the same thing. Perhaps after years of seanchan rule this might come to be the case, but I agree that it would be difficult to get these women to wield a leash.

[Rhienne]

In Seanchan the testing process for sul'dam and damane is part of the same event.  Every female within Seanchan territory is tested annually until she is 25, first with the collar and then with the bracelet.  In newly conquered areas the testing is immediate.  I would guess the Seanchan might hold back on testing for the damane in an area that is not fully subdued, but given how quickly they impose their order on the lands they acquire, I would expect that in Tarabon, Altara and Amadicia they would have started included tests for sul'dam.  After all, they are a valuable resource particularly with the large number of damane they are collaring (I think one of the Seanchan makes a comment to the effect that this is a rich land for damane).

[Barid Bel Medar]

Even without the Mainland people being tested, Tuon still has a large number of sul'dam in proportion to damane, so as of KoD, the numbers have yet to be tipped. 

 

In addition, while they work in pairs on active duty (and it is indeed common to only have one damane) it is not restricted. Tuon for example has multiple damane she trains. Each Sul'dam is not restricted to 1 damane. Some do train multiple damane. Of course, not all of them can be used if the damane start to be outnumbered, but the actual collaring doesn't change. They just keep the extra's shackled until they need them. 

 

Before he died, RJ talked about the Outriggers, which would take place after the main series. One of them was Tuon and Mat attempting to reclaim Seanchan. So as of KoD, the ratio has not been tipped enough that there is a crisis. However, it may be the case if this continues in the future. So a lot would depend on Tuon's success at reclaiming Seanchan. 

 

(No aMoL spoilers here, RJ's comments on the outriggers only, which he revealed many years ago.)

[jedman67]

The Seanchan don't much care if a person resents their rule. The Listeners and Seekers are very good at their jobs and making an example of a few local suldam is usually enough to quell any such rebellion before it even starts. I would assume that since the seanchan are capturing local damane, they are also acquiring local sul'dam, and i highly doubt the local women have much of a choice. 

I don't think its really that big of a deal.

[Agitel]

As has been said, there are far more sul'dam than damane to start. Second, the Seanchan have only been on the continent a year, maybe a little more. I assume sul'dam need training, too. Even if women from 'Randland' have been pulled aside for training as sul'dam, it may be some time before they are in use.

[clutzyninja]

It's already been said, but skimming back I couldn't find it to quote...

But while the Seanchan do the whole Borg thing with the nations they invade, I'm sure that even for women they have tested as Sul'dam, they won't trust them RIGHT away.  That's like conquering North Korea and giving the first North Korean conscript to get an A in Science class the keys to your nukes.

[Yamezt]

The testing in Randland has changed somewhat if I remember correctly. They use forkroot tea - which may or may not catch learners. We also do not know if learners will be affected by the A'dam past 25 - or it is merely Sul'dam who have been complete for a number of years.

 

Personally (and it is a complete speculation on my part), I think Seanchan will subsequently evolve to having their own loyal channellers as Sul'dam, and Damane as captured enemy channellers. They have been shown adaptable enough to overlook their bias to fight alongside the White Tower - they may be able to overcome previous prejudices.. However,it is easier to control a Sul'dum who is unable to channel - and it is a form of balance of power.

[Suttree]

The testing in Randland has changed somewhat if I remember correctly. They use forkroot tea - which may or may not catch learners.

 

That is not the normal testing they do in conquered territories with residents, it is totally separate. They use the tea at borders stations and the like to try and capture active channelers.

[threadnecromancer]

The testing in Randland has changed somewhat if I remember correctly. They use forkroot tea - which may or may not catch learners. We also do not know if learners will be affected by the A'dam past 25 - or it is merely Sul'dam who have been complete for a number of years.

 

Personally (and it is a complete speculation on my part), I think Seanchan will subsequently evolve to having their own loyal channellers as Sul'dam, and Damane as captured enemy channellers. They have been shown adaptable enough to overlook their bias to fight alongside the White Tower - they may be able to overcome previous prejudices.. However,it is easier to control a Sul'dum who is unable to channel - and it is a form of balance of power.

 

 

That is basically what I have been thinking as well.