Ghost Mafia - 3 out of 33 survive - Town wins!

[peacesells]

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier? 

[hazelkrs1]

First my quick thoughts, followed by longer recap with quotes and stuff.

 

Aight, so I honestly am wondering how town is supposed to win this game. We've had two successful viewings in a row, with 2 successful lynches, yet we are no closer to getting the number of possessed down. I know most would think vig kills would be the way, but honestly, looking at the death scenes, those that didn't die from ghosts looked like they were killed by someone caught in a temporary moment of insanity. No accusations in the scene, just random stark violence, followed instantly by something resembling regret from the person who did the killing.

 

So @Mod: I honestly think we could use a hint at this point. How are we supposed to stop the recruitings/are the death scenes written for people NOT killed by ghosts just plain vig kill scenes, or is there something more to them?

 

I also have something of a theory regarding this game, but part of it has alrdy kinda been suggested by Nolder.

 

Anyhoo, as for scumhunting type thoughts, my big ones are Peace, Darthe, Kronos, Basel, and Hallia.

 

Peace easily has the most against him, I'll use specific examples in my WoT, but he went hard at Nolder for that "slip" that wasn't really a slip at all. When someone FOS'd him for it, he  defended himself by saying EP was doing the same thing, so why not go for EP.... even tho EP was vetted town at that point. And then Peace STILL tried using this somehow to defend himself. He also recently suggested going for cleared townies from past hours, which I don't personally agree with seeing how the recruitments still might be random for all we know. There was more, but at this point I have a strong anti-town read on him.

 

Vote Peace.

 

Darthe seems to be purposefully trying to act like he's floating through this game not really paying attention to everything that's going on, and there seemed to be some strange interaction between him and Ithi earlier.

 

Basel also had some interaction with Ithi recently, but earlier he was also following leads and cases on people that I thought were weak.

 

Kronos was one of the last to remove his vote on Nol, has surfaced very little, seems to be trying to stay out of the limelight while still posting here and there.

 

Hallia looked very anti-town to me early on since she seemed so sure Ithi was town after Ithi claimed, then seemed more noob townie to me after a few more flubs, but since Ithi recently did flip anti-town, her earlier quote still pings somewhat. I'll include it for reference in my WoT, which will soon be following.

[hazelkrs1]

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier? 

 

only person I know that she said she prayed for was Red. Funny that you're trying to draw connections between her and someone already dead and confirmed town.

[peacesells]

Desp,

 

You obviously didn't understand my comments when refering to EP in that situation.  I suggest you go back and re-read.  I know you have more brain power than that. 

 

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier? 

 

only person I know that she said she prayed for was Red. Funny that you're trying to draw connections between her and someone already dead and confirmed town.

 

 

You just did your re-read...I've been part of the game from the start.  Is Red the one?  I don't remember. 

 

Now explain how exactly me purposefully refering to a dead player helps me if I'm scum?  I'll be waiting for that fine bit of logic.

[hazelkrs1]

Alright I'll try to whittle this down as much as possible, but I noticed a good bit during my catchup

 

What I'm willing to bet is that the people voting Turin are town.  And Ithi's town; what would seem smart to me is for them to kill one train with a bunch of townies on it, thus nudging us townies to join them on a lynch on another townie.

 

This is the Hallia quote that originally bothered me. She also assumes Turin's death was the result of a mafia kill, as others pointed out.

 

 

 

I think I did.  Lily has a point that it's hard enough with less than 24 hours to go to consolidate on someone.  And I've seen how hard it is to get a bunch of people to change their minds once they've started voting a certain way.   Voting Ithi would've also proved me right; and now I feel proven right without having to vote her with the whole ghost thing.  So I unvoted.

 

This would seem to confirm what I was thinking, but part of me thought instead that it is just a sign of inexperienced mafia player drawing the wrong conclusion from something

 

 

 

 

The first person to vote for me has confirmed they did so for no reason. Other people have voted for me for innacurate reasons - and then ignored my correction. Yet other people have voted me because they apparently agree with the previous horse poo made up cases - and yet another just says vote me cos of the info. Now 'consoloidation' is being advised.

Why am I not surprised.

Turin got killed and I'm to be Lynched.

In other news I do really have a limited shot item that allows me to stop ghosts.

But feel free to carry on with your 'consolidation'

Also I'd love to see how EP acting like a twonk has got anything to do with me. Please explain how I'm encouraging him when I want him gone.

And post numbers mean nothing to me. I don't ever use the full version.

 

 

Ok so I will reveal some info now: 

 

I used the FLIR camera to check if Eternal Phoenix is a ghost or not. I started this game out as a Vanilla, and I got the item at the start of 09:00. It was an one-shot ability/item and I was told that it will expire at 10:00 or when a lynch is achieved.

 

Before we get caught up debating Nolder and his wording I'd like to focus on the item/one-shot.

 

Cloud states he had a time limit on the use of the item.

 

Ithi did not address this.  @Ithi, do you still have the ability to use your item?

 

 

The interesting thing here is that at the time, I thought NotBob had made a great catch, what with Ithi's story about getting abilities not meshing with TG's version of getting an ability. However, since they both flipped possessed, that means this interaction was either a gambit or distancing, or one or the other was recruited after this was brought up.

 

If it's the first option (they were both anti-town at the time), then this makes Ithi's interaction with certain players even more relevant now (looking at you, Darthe and Basel).

 

Alternatively, this makes it look more possible that there IS a recruiter who chose to recruit NotBob after he made this observation. Being that Ithi didn't flip anything special other than possessed, and that this comment was made either hour 1 or early hour 2, this actually leads somewhat to that theory I was talking about before that I will get to in a bit

 

 

 

 

 

 

You jumped pretty hard on the Nolder slip.  I read it and initially took it the way he claims he intended, about whether or not town can stop possessed recruiting.  It seemed like you were being opportunistic.

 

 

 

Why not EP? He's voting Nolder for the same reason.

 

 

Here's where Peace advocates voting for a vetted townie...

 

 

 

 

 

EP was mod vetted

So, per your understanding..it's possible a vetted town player votes for Nolder for the same reasoning that I do..yet I can't be town.  Do you not see the logic fail there? 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Mod, can we just mod kill all those who have yet to post?

 

 

I knew that starting the game on a weekend would limit some players ability to post. I also know that some folks have wonky schedules and you never know when life is going to throw a wrench in your schedule. Having said that, I guarantee you that the Town doesn't want me to mod-kill other Townies for any reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He also clearly stated recently that he would not be a bastard mod.

@MOD: Would you consider third party roles in a game you described as "town vs mafia" to be bastard modding?

 

 

 

 

 

There really is no good way for me to answer that question without potentially spoiling somebody's play. If I confirm much more about who is who, I limit the ability of some players to WIFOM or mislead to their advantage. 

 

I will say this, I nearly always mention the part about it being a "Town vs. Mafia" affair. I say this because I intentionally provide and leave room for players to distract each other (as is the point of the game). I could also say "don't get distracted". Trying to take a sentiment literally will prove out the same as it always does.

 

I will also say that "gaming the mod" is usually frowned upon. I rather enjoy it myself as it offers me a chance to game the player right back. heh

 

 

This is important I think. More people should read this carefully, and once again this helped lead me to believe something strange might be afoot

 

 

 

You guys should be killing Nolder.  So we can actually kill someone.

 

A thought: If we started with 0 then day 1 information is useless.  Regardless of what we started with we are looking for a needle in a haystack if our effort is to specifically find the first ghost rather than any ghost.  Thus, past information is practically irrelevant in this game.  I think, using this logic, that we should only focus within a single day, the exception being when a player wants to note a change in playstyle between one day and the next which could indicate a sudden change of alignment.

 

Thoughts?

 

With all the talk about slips, no one brings this up? Looks almost like an intentional slip to me, I think Ithi and Darthe made a gambit and Darthe was supposed to be a sacrifice. Honestly tho it could just be that Darthe is off his game in this game.

 

 

You guys should be killing Nolder.  So we can actually kill someone.

 

A thought: If we started with 0 then day 1 information is useless.  Regardless of what we started with we are looking for a needle in a haystack if our effort is to specifically find the first ghost rather than any ghost.  Thus, past information is practically irrelevant in this game.  I think, using this logic, that we should only focus within a single day, the exception being when a player wants to note a change in playstyle between one day and the next which could indicate a sudden change of alignment.

 

Thoughts?

It's a very big "if" in my opinion. There must be a recruiter.

It could be that the recruiter is not a "possessed" but is perhaps one of us? Like a summoner or medium or whatever and therefore they don't count towards the number of possessed.

 

 

^^^^^^^ This is the start of my theory, that the game started with no one possessed, but that doesnt mean everyone was town. If you remember, the picture just confirmed everyone was human, or at least that no spirits had possessed anyone yet.

 

The fact that DPR got a bit squeamish when asked if the game was literally just town vs. possessed and no one else, leads me to believe this might be the case.

 

More on this in a bit

 

 

it's not a matter of grammar it's a matter of how it reads and to me it reads like he slipped so until I feel otherwise I'm going with it. Though I'm highly positive Nolder is mafia even excluding that comment.

 

 

 

Also good use of item this time, as we now know Nolder is clean for now

 

 

Tool.

 

 

Eternal Phoenix checks the electrical cables again. He follows the cables, looking for any frayed spots or reason why Turin would have had trouble. Logic tells EP that a shock could have easily knocked Turin across the room, and as improbable as it sounded, he could have crashed through the window. he could have had cable coiled around him arm and they just pulled around his neck. All of this reasoning seemed much more likely than the presence of a malevolent entity...

 

Unbeknownst to EP, a FLIR camera is pointed in his direction. There is no way for him to know that an image of him suddenly appears upon a hand-hled screen.

 

 

Upon seeing that EP is human (Town), the holder of the camera slips away, no one the wiser.

 

Note that when describing EP, it says he is "human (Town)". This could just be trying to make it clear in case anyone is confused, or it could be because there is someone that is human, but NOT town in the game. Later scenes that confirm townies do the same thing.

 

The thrill of finding the axe was palpable. Images of what to do with it flashed over stains of what had already been done, and the haft was just as covered in dried blood as the head.

 

While the crowd was busy in the throes of panic, you slip to the back of the room and into the hallway. Tina is there. She smiles at you.

 

You smile back and point behind her. She turns in confusion and you bring the axe out from behind you. As she turns back to you, you are already in mid swing, and with a THUNK, the axe buries itself between her eyes.

 

TINA, TOWN, IS DEAD

 

Horror begins to race through you as you realize what you have done. Leaving the axe, you run away...

 

As I mentioned before, the way this scene is written doesn't seem like a vig trying to do the right thing and take out someone they believe is scum, this seems much more like a SK type scene. However, the multiple kills in the same hour makes me think this isn't just a plain SK in the game.

 

If there is a human who is anti-town that is doing the recruiting for the possessed, a medium or spirit channeler or something like Nol suggested, what's to stop DPR from also putting another special human role in the game, one which causes others in the game to experience temporary madness and be forced to submit a kill on someone else in the game? Like a Hannibal in Red Dragon type role...

 

If I'm right I hope DPR is impressed.

 

 

The madness creeps through you lie a champagne buzz. It tickles your mind and cause your hands to involuntarily grip.

 

The old wooden baseball bat is leaning in a corner, but you seem to be the only one who has noticed it.

 

BG is standing alone, doing nothing. 

 

The urge builds until it overwhelms you and you quickly stride to the bat, take it up, and march over to BG. He notices that something is wrong too late as your first blow is a side-swing that crushes into his ribs and steals his breath. You hit him over and over until there is little left to recognize of him... and then your mind clears and you realize what you've just done.

 

No one else saw you. No one else knows. You need to get this blood off...

 

BGSHRINKO, TOWN, IS DEAD.

 

"Your mind clears and you realize what you've just done" DEF seems to confirm my theory

 

Looks like we might have two humans who are able to have others possessed in some way this game, one makes it a permanent possession by a spirit, the other seems to cause a temporary possession by some kind of malevolent force that causes them to be bloodthirsty...

 

What say yall of my theory?

 

RTE lynch is amusing...considering if he is inactive he helps in two ways.  1 as town he keeps our numbers up.  2 if he is scum he is not using whatever abilities he has so town is safer.

 

How has anyone not thought of test lynching the confirmed yet?  Once an hour has passed they are no longer confirmed yet great possession targets. 

 

Who's playstyle has changed the most?  EP's

 

 

VOTE EP

 

Here's where Peace advocates lynching EP since he was confirmed earlier, but once again we don't know if the recruitments are planned or random, and more importantly he parrots Darthe's reasoning on judging diff playstyles from hour to hour.

 

Imo, this makes Peace a good info lynch as well, since it might possibly lead us further in Darthe's direction.

 

 

 

I deleted most funny things that I wanted to comment on, but this had to stay. Had me bursting out laughing irl

[hazelkrs1]

Desp,

 

You obviously didn't understand my comments when refering to EP in that situation.  I suggest you go back and re-read.  I know you have more brain power than that. 

 

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier? 

 

only person I know that she said she prayed for was Red. Funny that you're trying to draw connections between her and someone already dead and confirmed town.

 

 

You just did your re-read...I've been part of the game from the start.  Is Red the one?  I don't remember. 

 

Now explain how exactly me purposefully refering to a dead player helps me if I'm scum?  I'll be waiting for that fine bit of logic.

 

What is it I should see about your comments about EP? You were saying to go at confirmed townies since they may have been recruited, but we (at least townies that is) still don't know how the recruitment process works. You cited diff behavior from EP as evidence, but A) imo you were working on too small of a sample size, and B) that's parroting something Darthe was saying, and I'm suspicious of him as well.

 

I don't know if Ithi said she "prayed" for anyone else as well, but I know at one point she said she had prayed for Red.

 

As for why you would have brought it up, you honestly might not have remembered who she had referenced, and thought that that person she had mentioned might still be alive, so you could direct attention to that person.

 

Alternatively, you could have just been trying to play the ignorance card, trying to overplay the unknowing townie angle.

[hazelkrs1]

For those who don't wanna read my WoT, I'll summarize my theory again:

 

DPR wrote the scene about a picture being taken at the beginning of the game that confirmed no one was possessed at that point, HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that everyone that was human was town.

 

When Nolder asked for clarification on whether their were non-ghost/possessed anti-town elements in this game, DPR dodged the question.

 

When cofirming townies through an item viewing, DPR would say someone was "Human (Town)" instead of just human, or town.

 

Their is obv a lot of consternation on how the recruiting is happening, and frankly if it's just random.org I don't really see how Town can win this game without getting extremely lucky with vig kills. SOOOO, I think it's possible our "recruiter" might not be possessed at all, but is instead a human that can call spirits from the nether world or something and cause people to get possessed. This means we could possibly treat this as we would when looking for a CL.

 

Also, when looking at the death scenes, I noticed that the ones where someone wasn't killed by a ghost, it seemed like the person who killed them experienced a brief moment of insanity, as in both scenes there was immediate regret, guilt, or surprise at what they had done.

This makes me think there could possibly be a seperate element at work here, that we might have ANOTHER anti-town human (or mebbe 3rd party), someone who causes brief insanity in whomever they target, and then that person is forced to kill someone that hour.

 

What yall think?

[Nolder]

Does anyone want to confirm that they got a killing item from DPR?

I had a camera and from what I can tell other townies* have gotten them as well.

But I don't recall any townies taking credit for kills.

 

 

*unconfirmed now

[Basel Gill]

 

The madness creeps through you lie a champagne buzz. It tickles your mind and cause your hands to involuntarily grip.

 

The old wooden baseball bat is leaning in a corner, but you seem to be the only one who has noticed it.

 

BG is standing alone, doing nothing. 

 

The urge builds until it overwhelms you and you quickly stride to the bat, take it up, and march over to BG. He notices that something is wrong too late as your first blow is a side-swing that crushes into his ribs and steals his breath. You hit him over and over until there is little left to recognize of him... and then your mind clears and you realize what you've just done.

 

No one else saw you. No one else knows. You need to get this blood off...

 

BGSHRINKO, TOWN, IS DEAD.

 

"Your mind clears and you realize what you've just done" DEF seems to confirm my theory

 

Looks like we might have two humans who are able to have others possessed in some way this game, one makes it a permanent possession by a spirit, the other seems to cause a temporary possession by some kind of malevolent force that causes them to be bloodthirsty...

 

What say yall of my theory?

 

w

It's an interesting idea, but it sounds mostly just flavor.

[DPR]

You know what y'all need? This:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u4alpA0H6g

[michellem]

I killed Talya.

 

I got a length of rusty chain from DPR. I had that game hour to use it.

[hazelkrs1]

I killed Talya.

 

I got a length of rusty chain from DPR. I had that game hour to use it.

From what I remember, that scene was the exception to my theory bout the killer frenzy thing. Still seemed a little weird for a vig killing scene, but there wasn't a part at the end where the killer "just realized what they had done".

 

Now that the cats out of the bag tho, wanna explain the rationale behind you killing Talya? And were you forced to use it or anything?

[michellem]

Nope, not forced to. With the extreme change in playstyle from H1 to H2, as Dap pointed out in his case, I found her to be the most suspect. And I've been having so much DM issues the past week that I decided to just use it right away, isntead of risking not being able to get on again later before the Hour ended and so loose it again.

[Tyler Glembo]

Interesting theory Despo.  We talked about it before, but rereading the scenes, as you pointed out, it does seem vague enough to fit.

[Gabriel Kross]

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier?

 

It was red, we screwed up because ithi said she would tell us the previous phase target each new phas but we didn't hold her to it, she had to have been 1 of the phase one possessions so any actions and what not and linkage she made from phase 2 til we lynched her is mafia info.

 

Des do you have the scene of Nol's view saved, there is something I want to confirm

[Kaylee]

It is an interesting theory. I was wondering about the "moments of insanity" myself.

 

I can see the points on Darthe. What was the case on Rand?

[berf]

Desp it kinda feels like your muddying the waters here with this town / human stuff. What difference does it make?

 

If someone is scanned, then actions on their behalf can be assumed clear, up until that point. I don't think DPR would put in an untraceable posessed magi or whatever, seems a vastard move.

 

And Ithi and notbob could easily be looked at as strong players as a recruitment candidates. The odds on any two random names vs 'big' names being picked...

 

Yeah this whole thing looks like a distraction.

[Tyler Glembo]

The case on Rand, from what I remember, is that water is wet.  I mean Rand was acting scummy. 

[Gabriel Kross]

I see what deep is getting at, at this point it's the best shot the town has at winning

[Tyler Glembo]

I see what deep is getting at, at this point it's the best shot the town has at winning

 

And what is that, exactly?  Find and take out the medium?

[Gabriel Kross]

First I need the scene of nolder's viewing

[Tyler Glembo]

Here is where you were viewed: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/82002-ghost-mafia-game-thread/?p=2910640

 

Here is where Nolder was viewed...grinning: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/82002-ghost-mafia-game-thread/?p=2912276

[peacesells]

 

Desp,

 

You obviously didn't understand my comments when refering to EP in that situation.  I suggest you go back and re-read.  I know you have more brain power than that. 

 

Who was the person Ithi said she was praying for when she got that link earlier? 

 

only person I know that she said she prayed for was Red. Funny that you're trying to draw connections between her and someone already dead and confirmed town.

 

 

You just did your re-read...I've been part of the game from the start.  Is Red the one?  I don't remember. 

 

Now explain how exactly me purposefully refering to a dead player helps me if I'm scum?  I'll be waiting for that fine bit of logic.

 

What is it I should see about your comments about EP? You were saying to go at confirmed townies since they may have been recruited, but we (at least townies that is) still don't know how the recruitment process works. You cited diff behavior from EP as evidence, but A) imo you were working on too small of a sample size, and B) that's parroting something Darthe was saying, and I'm suspicious of him as well.

 

I don't know if Ithi said she "prayed" for anyone else as well, but I know at one point she said she had prayed for Red.

 

As for why you would have brought it up, you honestly might not have remembered who she had referenced, and thought that that person she had mentioned might still be alive, so you could direct attention to that person.

 

Alternatively, you could have just been trying to play the ignorance card, trying to overplay the unknowing townie angle.

 

 

You are conveniently leaving out that those two statement occurred during different hours.

 

My first point had nothing to do with wanting EP lynched and everything to do with pointing out a logical fallacy that stated only a scum would take a certain action.  I pointed out that a confirmed town player (at the time) had taken the same action.  Therefore it was a logic fail.   Your purposeful attempt to change what I was saying is interesting here.  Why build up a straw case on me if you don't have ulterior motives?

 

The second thing you are accusing me of is testing the waters on previously confirmed players.  How is that in of itself scummy?  At some point it has to be done...just to try to even confirm the game set up of Random vs Recruitment.  You've also conveniently ignored the fact that I AM THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP RANDOM POSSESSION.

 

So again..I as you, why build a straw case on?  What is your motive?

[Darthe]

 

 

Darthe seems to be purposefully trying to act like he's floating through this game not really paying attention to everything that's going on, and there seemed to be some strange interaction between him and Ithi earlier.

 

 

 

When you say "interaction" do you mean the part where Ithi talked at me like 3 times and I never said anything to her?

 

 

 

You guys should be killing Nolder.  So we can actually kill someone.

 

A thought: If we started with 0 then day 1 information is useless.  Regardless of what we started with we are looking for a needle in a haystack if our effort is to specifically find the first ghost rather than any ghost.  Thus, past information is practically irrelevant in this game.  I think, using this logic, that we should only focus within a single day, the exception being when a player wants to note a change in playstyle between one day and the next which could indicate a sudden change of alignment.

 

Thoughts?

 

With all the talk about slips, no one brings this up? Looks almost like an intentional slip to me, I think Ithi and Darthe made a gambit and Darthe was supposed to be a sacrifice. Honestly tho it could just be that Darthe is off his game in this game.

 

Did you actually read the thread to that point?  We went two days in a row without a kill mate.  Pay more attention.

 

Btw, I'm quoting these for the general town to note the slight Despo pushing on me.  I can't decide if this is confirmation bias (crushers looks more honest) or scumz but he should hang for either in this case.

[Darthe]

By all means however, feel free to kill me, will me, view me, whatever.  I really don't see the case against myself.

 

Or DPR could give me a gun/chain/whateverthehell flavor he decides.  I'd love to view/kill one person in particular.