[Non Spoilers]Game of Thrones Season Three

[Tsukibana]

mwahahahaha *antagonistic laughter success!!!*

[Agitel]

re-Ramsey.  i could have sworn in the show Ramsey was there at Winterfell.   who was the one that rode into Winterfell and punched out Theon in Season two at the end then?  just Ramsey's goons?

 

@ Nol - great ratings image!  i have to say thsi is probably the first show that i've seen have a increase of veiwership from season to season rather than a decline.   i have to wonder how many decide to pick up the books once the season ends.

 

That was Dagmer. He is named in the books, Dagmer Cleftjaw, but they expanded his role in season two. He's older and a bit more seasoned in the books, and is ordered by Balon to accompany Theon on his raids (to pretty much serve as a chaperon). 

 

Ramsay had nothing to do with season two in the TV Show, with the exception that he was a part of the unnamed,  unseen force outside of Winterfell's walls blowing the horn at the end. He was not a part of Theon's arc, nor were any of his men. Everyone with Theon in season two was Ironborn. Nobody "rode into Winterfell" to punch out Theon. That was a mutiny by his own men, led by Dagmer. I suggest rewatching season 2. They named Dagmer. 

 

As for ratings, yeah, they've just kept climbing. A premier normally does better than the episodes following it, but not this season

[Red2111]

ah, thanks for the clarification Agitel.

 

thats part of the problem i have when i read a book once adn then watch a movie/series.  things which aren't explained clear or i miss because my focus is elswhere durign the scene; i just assume that characters are "such and such" based on events that happened in the book.

 

see, i thought the group the punched Theon and sacked him was the Bastards men.   in the book though, his men turned on him and handed him over to Ramsey to allow for safe passage out of the North though right?

 

 

and yeah, after i get done readign the Hannible Lector series, i'm doing a re-read of this series.  its too foggy *nods*

 

 

re-ratings - its not just the incline from episode to episode this show averages that has me impressed; but the large increase in veiwers from season to season/  look at the premier episodes and the jumpst between those alone.  damn impressive if you ask me.

 

 

has any other show had this type of ratings on TV before?  i'd wager to say this is the best rated show in HBO's history

 

[Agitel]

My memory is a little fuzzy, but it was different in the books. Ser Rodrik (Winterfell's Master-at-Arms; he's the guy with the weird locks that he ties under his chin in the show and was beheaded by Theon) was still alive, and had rallied a force to take back Winterfell. Theon had already let "Reek" leave to bring back help. Anyway, Rodrik had Winterfell surrounded, and Theon went out to parlay with Rodrik (he had Rodrik's daughter hostage to guarantee his own safety). As they're speaking, "Reek" returns as Ramsay with his own force and kills Rodrik and that army. Theon is wounded, and the Bolton men sack Winterfell (I forget if that's shown or not).

 

Also, in the show, we're not told who sacked Winterfell. The force holding Theon and his men sieged at Winterfell promised they'd let all the Ironborn (except Theon) go if they left peacefully. Theon tries to rally the Ironborn men for a last stand, but they mutiny, and are shown leaving. Next we know, Bran et al exit the crypts and find Winterfell burned. That may still have been Ramsay and his force. We don't know yet.

 

Let me see if I can find Clash to review this.

 

EDIT: Alright, I was a little wrong. Theon and Rodrik parlay. Theon retreats inside, telling Rodrik that if he doesn't disband before sunset he'll hang his daughter. The northmen don't disband. Theon realizes that if he hangs her, the northmen will attack. If he doesn't, they'll realize it was an empty threat, and attack. Dismayed, Theon then finds out that a new force just attacked Rodrik's men. Theon learns that it was Reek/Ramsay and Bolton men. Theon opens the gates for them. Ramsay then "betrays" Theon, and it results in the Bolton men taking Theon hostage, killing the Ironborn and the men and women of Winterfell, and sacking the castle.

[John E. Kelley]

The Ironborn weren't allowed to leave in the book. Boltons men from Dreadfort led by Reek (actually Ramsey) slaughter the Northmen beseiging Winterfell and the Ironborn both. They kill most of the people of Winterfell too then burn it all to the ground. Bran and co. creep out of the cellars after Bolton's men have already left. And at that point the frog eater kids were already with them too. Just another deviation from the books.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

That last episode. Oh Baby. That is all.

[Werthead]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3701064/

 

He's listed in the credits as Ramsay so theres no question, although he's a bit to "pretty" to be ramsay as the books describe he can sure play a creep so it should be fun to watch

 

IMDB is like Wikipedia and can be amended by registered users. Some speculating fan has done that, not the production team.

 

Unlikely.

 

No. Goodkind ripped off Robert Jordan, that is very well known. Jordan himself was angry over it, but because they had the same publisher there was nothing really that he could do.

[Nolder]

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3701064/

 

He's listed in the credits as Ramsay so theres no question, although he's a bit to "pretty" to be ramsay as the books describe he can sure play a creep so it should be fun to watch

 

IMDB is like Wikipedia and can be amended by registered users. Some speculating fan has done that, not the production team.

 

Unlikely.

 

No. Goodkind ripped off Robert Jordan, that is very well known. Jordan himself was angry over it, but because they had the same publisher there was nothing really that he could do.

 

Citation needed.

[Tsukibana]

@Nolder - If your request for a citation refers to the Jordan/Goodkind issue, I, too, would like a citation. I've always been

aware of the fan... tussle over simuliarities, if you will, but I was never aware of Jordan himself getting involved.

[Verbal32]

If we're going to discuss ripping people off and whether it really happened, at what point do we discuss how the Aiel are ridiculously similar to the Fremen from the Dune novels?  Or the Aes Sedai being amazingly like the Bene Gesserit?

 

Eye of the World - 1990

Dune - 1965

 

To be clear, I'm not saying Robert Jordan ripped off Frank Herbert, nor am I defending Terry Goodkind.  But if you want to look at one seemingly obvious instance, you kinda need to look at them all.

[Agitel]

Sisters of the Light/Dark. Male wizards low in number and needing to be controlled by women who control with collars. Using magic by weaving webs of strands of magic of different elements. There are some disturbing parallels. When asked about it, Jordan just bit his tongue and told people to check out the publication dates.

[Tsukibana]

hehe... for my own writing, I acknowledge the inspiration from RJ (I too use threads for magic, and even a Pattern-type explanation for this world),

but I've always felt there were too many similiarities for it to be coincidence. Oh well.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

we've had several fremen v aiel threads.

 

I think rj either talked about goodkind in his blog or referenced an article.... I'd go search his blog or google it but it's off topic and I'm sick.

 

but it was an rj thing not just a fan thing.

 

my mom hasn't read either but she knew there was a feud somehow, not from me.

[Nolder]

Well you're sort of alluding to the point I'm trying to make Verbal which is that none of these people "ripped off" anyone IMO. There's just common things in fantasy such as an "evil dark lord/one" and the "exotic sand people". It may be that Terry Goodkind read and was inspired by Eye of the World. It may be that he even deliberately borrowed some concepts. I do not think however that if he did so it was done maliciously. If he did I am sure his intentions would have been to try to do it better than RJ did. That sort of oneupmanship is common in literature and is nothing new.

 

Edit: If RJ really thought Goodkind deliberately and maliciously "stole" ideas from the wheel of time I'd be interested in what he had to say about it. Would appreciate it if someone could link to an interview or blog or record of him commenting on it.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I took these from a thread here but terez confirmed their accuracy in the thread and I think you can google them all separately

 

 

there were nastier jabs later after RJ got sick but I'll leave them be.

 

 

 

Quote

From USA Today 4 August 2003:

 

Haddonfield, NJ: Second Question - I've noticed similarities between your Sword of Truth series and Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series...(Black Sisterhood vs. Black Ajah; The Order vs. The Seanchan; Richard vs. Rand both discovering their powers, both have Nameless evil Gods...etc.) I've often voiced my suspicion that these two series might be occurring on the same world...how crazy am I?

 

Terry Goodkind: If you notice a similarity, then you probably aren't old enough to read my books.

Quote

Robert Jordan said:

From USA Today 5 January 2004:

 

Delmar, NY: Have you ever read or heard about the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? After reading the series it is obvious many of the main ideas are copied from the WoT.

 

Robert Jordan: I'm aware of Mr. Goodkind.

 

 

Quote

Robert Jordan said:

Robert Jordan's blog 15 July 2006 - NO CHAMPAGNE YET

 

For Richard Scholten, I have never discussed anything whatsoever with Terry Goodkind. I suggest that you check the publication dates of his books and mine. Of course, he says he has never read me, or so I'm told, and I would never contradict a statement like that. Just check out the pub dates on his books, and the pub dates on mine, those that contain the similarities you speak of.

[Agitel]

On a different note, I would love to see Kit Harington have more lines. He hasn't really had a chance to do much acting since season one.

 

EDIT 2: Oops, that link didn't work, but if you google parts of the quotes cindy provided you'll find them on Theoryland and other places. I also found this summary of what Jordan said in 1999 at the Melbourne Film Festival.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Aug 27th, 1999

Melbourne Film Festival - Mark Erikson (Paraphrased)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

I'm fairly sure he's done this before, but he said Aginor and Balthamel are Aran'gar and Osan'gar, and he also said that Terry Goodkind actually uses WOT as inspiration, instead of going to a historical source. He sounded serious.

 

Finally, he also recommended several authors, but said that the guy who wrote Cryptonomicon was really good.

 

 

SOURCE: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=106

[Nolder]

Thanks Cindy. Yeah it seems like RJ may have thought that Goodkind copied some of his ideas but I guess he never outright made the accusation.

 

I find the phrasing of this question ridiculous. "Delmar, NY: Have you ever read or heard about the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? After reading the series it is obvious many of the main ideas are copied from the WoT." Again, things like evil dark lords and youthful heroes ignorant of their power/importance are not owned by anyone. Anyone who has read both WoT and SoT must realize that despite their similarities they are still vastly different in hundreds of ways.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

there aren't that many original ideas left.

 

is ok.

[Tsukibana]

 

... but it's off topic and I'm sick.

 

sick of the debate, or actualy sick??

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

... but it's off topic and I'm sick.

 

sick of the debate, or actualy sick??

what debate?

 

actual sick. no big.

[Nolder]

Good point either way. Let's get back to GoT. If you guys wanna continue to discuss this we should take it to a PM or something.

 

 

[Agitel]

EDIT: Nevermind. Back on topic.

 

Good point either way. Let's get back to GoT. If you guys wanna continue to discuss this we should take it to a PM or something.

 

 

 

lmao

[Tsukibana]

Good point either way. Let's get back to GoT. If you guys wanna continue to discuss this we should take it to a PM or something.

 

 

LMAO

[Tsukibana]

 

 

... but it's off topic and I'm sick.

sick of the debate, or actualy sick??

what debate?

 

actual sick. no big.

 

Feel better soon, then.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Ty... maybe I'll try to catch up here... got lost real early but... well see