The Forsaken's Smartest Moments

[EmperorAllspice]

Well. Thought I might as well make a thread about it since I talk about it enough.

 

The Forsaken are usually criticised as being... stupid. and they certainly show their fair share of arrogance, overconfidence and narcicism throughout the series.

 

but what would you consider the Forsaken's moments of glory? The moments where they show true skill and intelligence and grit against Rand and the forces of light.

 

The moments that make you go. "Wow, team light may have an actual fight on their hands after all."

[Agitel]

Demandred and Mesaana essentially orchestrating behind-the-scenes Rand's capture and release with a little help from Taim in Lord of Chaos is a big one for me.

 

Mesaana's influence in causing the split in the White Tower, being the one to cause the actual fighting between factions after Siuane being deposed was a pretty great move, too. We have less direct knowledge about what Aran'gar was doing, but she was obviously manipulating the rebel faction as Mesaana manipulated the White Tower.

 

There were some other things that had less direct influence in the main setting we were concerned with, but it seems like Semirhage and Graendal essentially caused civil wars to erupt in the Seanchan homeland and Shara.

 

Those are a few.

[Whizbang]

Ishmael has been the driving force behind most of the Shadow's success. Yes, he lost it in The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn, but even then he was serving the Dark Prophecies. He, more than anyone else, knows what game the DO is playing.

 

Plus he pretty much founded the Black Ajah, his Trolloc Wars campaign was one step down from armagedon. He managed to avoid being completely sealed. He caused Artur Hawkwing to distrust Aes Sedai and instilled a general distrust for them across the continent. There is a reason he is Naeblis.

[Suttree]

I'm partial to Ishy causing mass chaos and destruction at 40 year intervals from the Trolloc Wars to:

I whispered in Artur Hawkwing's ear and the length and breadth of the land Aes Sedai died. I whispered again, and the High King sent his armies across the Aryth Ocean, across the World Sea, and sealed two dooms. The doom of his dream of one land and one people, and a doom yet to come... I spoke, and the High King's last words were to cry that Tar Valon must be destroyed."

Also love how he plays the other forsaken and is the only one really hip to what is actually going down.

[EmperorAllspice]

I'm quite partial to the number Rahvin did on Andor. and his fight against Rand was awesome. Perfect example of skill overcoming greater strength

 

And the whole "Fool Box" gambit Sammael did on the Shaido. Which ended up causing chaos across the whole land. Arrogant though it may have been, the reveal of what the boxes were made me smile pretty wide.

 

And the way he lured Rand out to Shadar Lagoth and used Shadowspawn as bait to urge Rand to channel and give away his position was pretty glorious too.

 

Rahvin and Sammael both left some pretty impressive lingering damage as their legacy.

[Mr Ares]

The Chosen tend to be at their most successful away from the one on one fights, which have a nasty way of ending with their deaths. Asmo effectively kick started the Shaido problem by marking Couladin as the car'a'carn, Semi brought Seanchan to chaos by slaughtering the Imperial family, Graendal took out Arad Doman, Ishy destroyed the two greatest attempts at peace and unity in the Westlands, the Trolloc Wars breaking down the Ten Nations and Hawkwing's empire dying in the chaos of the War of a a Hundred Years. Sammael spread the Shaido far and wide, creating further problems at a stroke, not to mention his single handed smashing of the army Rand sent at Illian (intended as a distraction, but it was still a fairly large force backed by Asha'man, and Sammael stopped it in its tracks by himself), Mesaana broke the Tower and masterminded Rand's kidnapping. Even in the one on one fights, several Chosen only died due to outside interference: Rahvin had no way of predicting Nynaeve's presence, Sammael was betrayed by Moridin, Semi was either betrayed by Shai'tan or a quirk of the link that she could not have anticipated, Be'lal attempted to neutralise Moiraine but was unsuccessful (given the chaos of Mat and the Shaido, checking up on things would have been rather difficult), and Lanfear was on the brink of victory, but for Moiraine's sacrifice.

[EmperorAllspice]

oh, and Be'lal's fight was pretty sweet. Dominating Rand like that. with a sword made of BLACK fire. How sweet is that?!

[jedman67]

oh, and Be'lal's fight was pretty sweet. Dominating Rand like that. with a sword made of BLACK fire. How sweet is that?!

Sweet? Not really. It was a blademaster and master strategist fighting a novice farmer-turned swordsman. Nothing special about that, even tho he was winning. 

[Whizbang]

Yeah, Be'lal could've been a great villain, on par with Demandred. Too bad he was taken out early before we could see more of him.

[EmperorAllspice]

 

oh, and Be'lal's fight was pretty sweet. Dominating Rand like that. with a sword made of BLACK fire. How sweet is that?!

Sweet? Not really. It was a blademaster and master strategist fighting a novice farmer-turned swordsman. Nothing special about that, even tho he was winning. 

It was sweet because Rand was losing. I relish any time Rand is losing. And Rand defeated a Blademaster in The Great Hunt and that pissed me off something royal

[sVieira151]

Surely that just highlights how good Be'lal is, compared to these so called 3rd Age Blademasters? 

[EmperorAllspice]

Which is why I consider it an awesome moment for Be'lal

[Darki'n]

Semirhage collaring Rand in The Gathering Storm. It was a horrible scene (in the "good" mind), and it showed how genius and crazy Semirhage is in torturing. Only thing that saved Rand was the sudden appearance of True Power, and even when he survived, he turned darker and nearly destroyed the Pattern. Wouldn't that have been the worst thing that can happen?

[EmperorAllspice]

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

[Suttree]

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

Interrogation yes, torture no.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Formation of the Black Ajah was pretty slick.

[shortkut]

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

Doesn't asking for spoilers ruin your enjoyment of the books? You are either waiting for something and not paying close attention to certain parts or you already know what is going to happen and are not surprised/feel no suspense. That's my opinion, but I never understood people who wanted to have things spoiled for them

[Whizbang]

 

 

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

Doesn't asking for spoilers ruin your enjoyment of the books? You are either waiting for something and not paying close attention to certain parts or you already know what is going to happen and are not surprised/feel no suspense. That's my opinion, but I never understood people who wanted to have things spoiled for them

I can't wait to see his reaction to how she is treated though...

[EmperorAllspice]

 

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

Doesn't asking for spoilers ruin your enjoyment of the books? You are either waiting for something and not paying close attention to certain parts or you already know what is going to happen and are not surprised/feel no suspense. That's my opinion, but I never understood people who wanted to have things spoiled for them

I don't like it when heroes do awesome things. I espeially don't like it when the villains are defeated and humiliated. I can either stumble across what happens blind, and respond  angrily, (like what happened when Mogheiden was captured. I was NOT happy when that happened) or I can learn of it ahead of time and make peace with it.

 

Knowing of something that I'll enjoy ahead of time gives me more incentive to read. These books are the most tensionless books in the entire world, so I need any method I can of staying interested.

[EmperorAllspice]

 

 

Does Semi resist normal torture and interrogating methods after being captured?

Doesn't asking for spoilers ruin your enjoyment of the books? You are either waiting for something and not paying close attention to certain parts or you already know what is going to happen and are not surprised/feel no suspense. That's my opinion, but I never understood people who wanted to have things spoiled for them

I can't wait to see his reaction to how she is treated though...

I know what happens to her... I wish you people wouldn't take such sadistic glee in my anger...

[Whizbang]

Why? You take such a sadistic glee in the misfortune of the heroes. :)

 

But, yeah, I was a little disappointed in that. I was hoping for something a little more epic in the capture of Semi. Of all the forsaken, she seems the most twisted. The others are all power hungry. She just loves to give pain, and to as many people as she can reach. She's a true psycopath (as far as I understand the term).

 

I will say that in that way, I do agree and sympathize with your position somewhat. There is a lot of buildup in these stories, and the actual moments rarely live up to what I've anticipated. Still, I've always been one to enjoy the prose itself and the careful crafting and world-building. The plot is usually secondary in my enjoyment of a story.

[EmperorAllspice]

All the main characters are overpowered. They literally bend reality around them. Of course I'm gonna enjoy it when the Forsaken or the Darkfriends actually manage to score a win of some kind now and then XD