Burnout/Severing

[vegetattack15]

Ive seen many forums where people get into the discussion of healing Setalle Anan. Do you think a burnout can be healed.

 

P.S. Should it happen at 4:20 LOL J/K

[Meliane]

Am I missing something? Is the mystery of Setalle Anan no longer a mystery?

[Cybertrolloc]

It's in KoD.

 

Is an Other/Not Enough Info in the Books to Make a Call option that much trouble to include on polls?

[Meliane]

I really need to re-read books 8-11... But my brother has my copy of 8 right now. Doh.

 

I especially need to re-read 11. I'll be surprised all over again!!

 

:)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its my opinion that yes, it can (since I think Lanfear was burned out and has been Healed). But, as far as anything definitive, Cybertrolloc is right, we need a "Not enough info" option.

[vegetattack15]

I could have sworn I put that option in there, I don't know why it didn't appear. Well I apoligize, my intention was to have that option though, so I agree with you both. In a way though I am glad it didn't make it through, because now you are all forced to make a decision instead of hiding behind the excuse of RAFO.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm too big to hide behind a RAFO. 8)

[vegetattack15]

I'll go one step further, and go out on a limb. RAW I've discussed this briefly with you before which is why I created this thread.

 

I think Severing is like a peice of string, if you Still someone you cut the string its still there though, so if someone could manipulate it i.e. Nyn, you can fuse it together again. (Wasn't fire used to achieve this? Not sure) If it is burned out the string has been removed. So the only way (in my theory) to heal being burned out is to re-create the thread, which only the creator can do, I don't think the DO even has that ability.

[Eyeless621]

I agree with your theory, veg, I don't think burning out can be healed. If you are severed, then you still have the ability, its just been supressed so to speak... but if you burn yourself out, then you've removed the ability, and it can't be healed.

 

Since Nyn. figured out how to heal stilling/gentling everyone has been kinda like, "oh cool we don't totally have to be afraid of that anymore"... but nothing is mentioned about being burned out, it seems they are still cautious of that.

[raydurz]

Ive always thought that severing is different than burning out and thus it can't be healed. I think the string analogy is a good one.

[Thor]

I voted yes by the way. A broken bridge is a broken bridge, you fix it regardless of how it's broken.

[loki redfern]

severing and burned out are the same thing arent they, severing is the age of legends term, as far as i can remember, and it covered burned out stilling and gentling. this means the aes sedai of the AoL it was the same thing, so i burning out can be heals as well as the others

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think Severing is like a peice of string, if you Still someone you cut the string its still there though, so if someone could manipulate it i.e. Nyn, you can fuse it together again. (Wasn't fire used to achieve this? Not sure) If it is burned out the string has been removed. So the only way (in my theory) to heal being burned out is to re-create the thread, which only the creator can do, I don't think the DO even has that ability.

 

The problem with that theory is what happened to Irgain, Ronaille, and Sashalle, the three Aes Sedai who were shielding Rand at Dumai's Wells when he broke free. Stilling someone is described as "cutting" them off from the Source, the weave is knife or blade-like (the description in Nynaeve's fight with Moghedien in Tanchico comes to mind). What Rand did to those three Aes Sedai was "crush them ruthlessly in fists of Spirit". That sounds much more like being burned out, than being severed. And yet, those very same Aes Sedai were later Healed by Damer Flinn to full strength.

 

It is not proof. Really, we don't have proof either way yet, and until someone tries it on Setalle Anan, or we find out for sure that Lanfear and Moiraine were burned out by the doorway ter'angreal, then we won't have proof either way. But in my opinion, they can both be Healed.

[Mardragon]

I voted yes.

 

I figured being burned out was just another form of severing albeit acidentally self inflicted rather than deliberately by someone else (as in stilling and gentling).

 

I can see how some people come to a different conclusion though, particularly since 'burned out' suggests a complete purge (like burning a rope instead of cutting it). I wouldn't interpret it that litterally though. To follow the bridge anology, if a rope bridge is completely consumed in flames rather than just cut, there are may still be the posts at either end where a new bridge can be connected.

[chemteach1977]

Correct me if i am wrong but IIRC,

 

Siuan and Leane tried on the a'dam bracelet in Salidar and could sense Moghedian. They could not use it to control her or make her feel stuff but they could sense her. I remember Moggy was "shocked to her toenails" or something. Because she thought severing was forever and any indication that something was still there was a big surprise.

 

However, when Mat tried to get Setalle to use an a'dam to escape Ebou Dar, she could not sense anything.

 

Don't have the energy to look all this up but i think it indicates that burning out is different and PERHAPS un-healable. Just because the AoL called it the same thing don't mean nothing. They thought stilling could not be healed so would not need two different words.

[RobertAlexWillis]

However, when Mat tried to get Setalle to use an a'dam to escape Ebou Dar, she could not sense anything.

 

Thats an unwarranted assumption. Since the scene is in a Mat POV, and Setalle didn't say anything about what she felt or didn't feel, we don't know if she felt anything or not.

 

The a'dam on Moghedien in Salidar was a different kind than the standard a'dam Mat and co. had in Ebou Dar. The movement restricition did not exist on the Salidar a'dam, since it had no leash attached. The only effect we saw when Joline was attached to Setalle was that she still couldn't move, because the link wasn't complete. But we don't know if it would have been the same for Siuan and Leane with Moggy, using a standard a'dam.

 

I think the easiest way to find out about this will be when Moiraine is rescued. If it turns out that she and Lanfear really were burned out by the ter'angreal like I think they were, then we know it can be Healed, since Cyndane can channel.

[vegetattack15]

Now your in completely different territory, which is good. I think were closer to an educated guess now. This now goes back to the question of whether severing affects the soul, body, or both. If Lanfear was burned out, would bringing her back in a new body heal her ability to channel, or did her soul require healing to regain that ability? Was she healed by a woman? Is that the reason for her drop in strength? Hmmm, possibly Moghedien could have healed her. But we don't even know for certain if she was burned out, or killed, or what.

[Thor]

Actually, I remember that Setalle could sense something, but just wasn't able to make them move. But I didn't like that part so I don't remember well.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, I remember that Setalle could sense something, but just wasn't able to make them move.

 

 

No, Siuan and Leane could sense something, but not make Moghedien feel anything. We don't know what Setalle did or didn't feel, because it doesn't say!

 

But if you want to refresh your memory, the scene with Setalle wearing the a'dam is in Winter's Heart, chapter 29 Another Plan.

[Thor]

As I said, I didn't like that part so I don't remember well. :lol:

[RobertAlexWillis]

I give up.

[Mat is the Boss]

The three Aes Sedai at Dumai Wells were stilled, it`s in Rands POV later, I`ll try to find it.

 

Anyway, when someone deliberately cuts someone of from the Power permanently, it`s stilling/gentling. When you misuse the Power (like drawing more then you can handle) your ability is burned out. It seems to me that when you`re burned out, you`re damaged from within.

 

Think of it as a heart, if an artery is cut in two, your blood cannot flow around your body, but if the artery is healed, the blood will be able to flow again. This is what stilling/gentling do. When you`re burned out, the heart is burned to dust. Much like Rands hand, if it`s gone it can`t be healed. That would be like creating the ability to channel.

Which is why I don`t think someone who`s been burned out can be healed.

[Thor]

But the hand can be healed, it's just that no one can do it now. Semi probably can, but I doubt if she would, and frankly, I don't want her to. Rand is much better being wounded, one-handed, blind and bleeding all over. :P

[Mat is the Boss]

You can`t use the Power to grow a new hand! Had it been damaged it could have been healed, but the hand is gone. If you mean that Semirhage can make and arm grow out again, shouldn`t she be able to make a person grow a little taller? Sammael regretted that there was no way to use the Power to get taller in one of his POVs. Which means that all you can do is fix what`s broken, not bring back whats gone. This is why death can`t be healed.

[Thor]

No. You can heal what is gone.

 

You can't make someone grow taller because that person didn't lose height.

 

Rand lost a hand, so he can get it back, if Semi agrees.