Rand's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Hondo]

Sigh, whatever he is doing it's not channeling saidin, so still burned out.

Rand tricked Moridin and was controlling him when the Bore was sealed. If anyone was burned out, it would have been Moridin...not Rand. And from Halima, we know that channeling is connected with the soul; not the body.

[Axon]

Yes, that occurs before Rand switches bodies and the dark one is sealed, etc.  Clearly, he is still channeling at that particular moment.   it's possible Rand's soul somehow changed after everything he went through, but I'm more into the Neo theory.  

[driedraspberry]

 

 

Sigh, whatever he is doing it's not channeling saidin, so still burned out.

Rand tricked Moridin and was controlling him when the Bore was sealed. If anyone was burned out, it would have been Moridin...not Rand. And from Halima, we know that channeling is connected with the soul; not the body.

I meant he's not channeling to light the pipe. Whatever happened duringthe switch did not preserve Rand's ability to reach saidin. If you disagree it's fine, but I don't see much point to arguing it.

[driedraspberry]

 

 

Sigh, whatever he is doing it's not channeling saidin, so still burned out.

Rand tricked Moridin and was controlling him when the Bore was sealed. If anyone was burned out, it would have been Moridin...not Rand. And from Halima, we know that channeling is connected with the soul; not the body.

I meant he's not channeling to light the pipe. Whatever happened duringthe switch did not preserve Rand's ability to reach saidin. If you disagree it's fine, but I don't see much point to arguing it.

[papertiger]

Rand is definitely bending reality itself to his will. I think he picked it up during that slideshow fight with the DO.

[clu7ch]

When you exist outside the pattern, you see the pattern for what it truly is. Genuine understanding. He used the one power in it's pure unadulterated form to seal the dark one away, The one power is the force that turns the wheel, and all of the threads in the pattern are a part of the wheel. I believe that he simply understands everything with near perfect depth. I would like to think he figured out a way to manipulate the one power as the one power, and not just a half of it, but that doesn't seem right. Either way, the metaphysics are pretty staggering. Rand seemed omnipotent before, after Veins of Gold, but now he gets to be really omnipotent. (Omnomnompotent) 

[Sabio]

Here is what I am curious about.  We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had anyother body.  So does that mean Rand will eventually forget he ever had another body?

[Hondo]

 

I meant he's not channeling to light the pipe. Whatever happened during the switch did not preserve Rand's ability to reach saidin. If you disagree it's fine, but I don't see much point to arguing it.

 

 

Obviously the facts are few and far between.   But we can't latch onto just one fact and base all of our conclusions on that one fact while ignoring other things that we also know.

 

Rand can't feel saidin    But does that mean that he was burned out?    

Moridin was channeling through Callendor, Rand was controlling.   How could Rand have burned out?

Rand lit the pipe with his thoughts.    Did he do that by controlling the pattern (something he has never done)?

Or is he using the True Source (not to be confused with True Power) without "weaving" the individual thread of Fire solely from Saidin (which he did to seal the Bore)?

[Hondo]

 We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had any other body.  

 

 

How do we know this?

[Suttree]

 

 We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had any other body.  

 

 

How do we know this?

We don't and it isn't true. The only time we have seen something like that happen is with Birgitte when she was pulled out of Tar. Transmigration is something different entirely and the chosen don't lose their memories.

[Ryan52]

I am not sure if it has been mentioned because it had not crossed my mind at all, but my wife made a really great observation to me the other day concerning his confrontation and end decision with the Dark One.  The way Rand chose by resealing the Bore instead of killing the DO was a direct parallel to Ji'e'toh and taking Gai'shain, the path of achieving greatest honor by capturing instead of killing.  It added a whole new light to the end and tying together certain themes throughout the story.  For all the flak Aviendha gave him Rand really did understand ji'e'toh in the end.  

[pmtang]

There was a line earlier in the book about capturing the Dark One as Gai'shan.  I believe it was Aviendha would first proposed it to Rand.

[morkhon]

This has undoubtedly been noticed, but it seems like Rand no longer has LTT's memories at the end of the book. At least that's what I take from the 'Rand al'Thor--just Rand al'Thor--woke in a dark tent by himself' line to start his second to last pov. Which I think is nice. No longer does he have to be haunted by a life that ended horribly for himself and all he loved and the world in general.

 

 

My question is the significance of the dragon fang saa in his eye. Obviously it means something. But what exactly? Somehow connected to his new ability to change the world around him without channeling?

[Ruth]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster here.

 

My feelings on Rand's attitude during the epilogue has to do with the final lesson he received from Tam. Rand was frustrated and weighed down from the loss of his hand. Losing it made Rand feel like he lost the ability to do one of the only things that ever brought him piece throughout the books, his sword fighting abilities. Tam's advice to Rand over this frustration was to "Let go." We see a reference to this during Rand's battle with the DO when he is on the verge of giving up.  This I feel was the final aspect that allowed Rand to finish his job. He let go. He let go of his regrets, his perceived failures, his burdens. He also let go of the sense of responsibility to everyone. His need to try and ensure that everyone did as they should and his need to protect everyone. Rand's leaving without letting anyone know is his way of relinquishing the world to the care of others. Letting himself trust in the decisions of others and their ability to lead the world to a better place. Rand knows that the people he leaves behind will be able to cope in his absence. This doesn't mean that he has abandoned them or that he doesn't care anymore, Rand just knows that they will be better off finding their own way instead of needing to rely on him. 

I like this.

[balefireruinssteaks]

Halima mentions in a Halima POV that she barely remembers what it was like to be a man...that's probably what he was talking about as far as bodies being transmigrated.  Over time, if the gender is changed (or theoretically if the body is changed) one forgets what it was like to have any other body at all.  Halima was Aginor if I remember correctly...Aginor never forgot being Aginor, but he forgot what it was like to be in a man's body.

[Chalk]

 

When did Rand and Morridin swap and how was it done?  It would appear that it was done while Rand was drawing Morridin's power through Callandor but that would mean that it was Morridin (in Rand's body) who walked out of the cave carrying Rand (in Morridin's body).  That doesn't quite seem right...........

 

Also back in the tents, didn't Nynaeve say that "Morridin" wasn't going to make it?  But I guess it did later say that Morridin's body wasn't checked...........

Rand carried himself out of the cave, in Morrodins body.

There is a reason that scene was so vague.

 

No, Nyneave said Rand wouldn't make it. She said it wasn't fair that Rand was going to die, and the other one, was probably going to live. (she didn't know about the body swap)

 

 

>>'He regarded his pipe, riding up a little incline to the side of Thakan dar, now covered in plants. No

way to light the tabac. He inspected it for a moment in the darkness, then thought of the pipe being lit.

And it was.'' "Rand smiled and turned south. He glanced over his shoulder. All three women at the pyre had turned

from it to look directly at him. He could make them out, though not much else, by the light of the

burning body.''- Rand just thought and the pipe being lit. He glanced over his shoulder and Avi,Min and Elayne just turned, no more.So if he is AVATAR of the Creator they would follow him. And he light the pipe only by THOUGHT. This is the limits of his powers.Rand use only THE ONE POWER ,but by his thought!

As for that he just go south , and no more - "By Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, the Fourth Age. The End of the Last Book of The Wheel of Time. -this is the most clear answer ,that he RAND tell the story to Loial!!! SO HIS FATHER ,HIS FRIENDS MUST KNOW HIS STORY TOO.BUT IF THEY KNOW , THEN RAND MUST MET THEM EARLIER BEFORE TELLING THE STORY.

And this is it.

Posted on this a few pages ago.

My Thought is this.

Rand can't channel Sadian.

He can Channel the True Source.

And he doesn't necissarilly have to draw the power out.

 

He spent the equivolent of a Millenia battling the Dark One in that Void. He effectively (and he mentioned this him self) spent like.. 100-1000 years in that place, fighting the DO. (or that it felt like a 1000 years).

 

While spending that length of time there, he was also playing around with the pattern (as his mind saw it) weaving his visions for what he wanted.

 

In doing so, for so long, my Oppinion on this matter, is that the True Source for rand is not so much weaving as it is simply willing something to happen.

 

I think  there may have been some foreshadowing towards the part of simply willing something to happen.

 

We see time in and time again, that the girls just happen to come up with a weave that does something.

Why did they just happen? Could it not be.. that they willedfor an outcome, and they got it? And by willing something to happen, while channeling Sadar/Sadian, caused it to happen?

 

Look at Androl.

He spent the majority of his life.

Traveling.

Why wouldn't he be good at making Waygates? Why wouldn't he just have an easier time willing a gateway into existance?

 

Does Nyneave not use her willpower to heal someone and will it to happen?

Egwene willed for the extiance of anti-balefire. By simply willing for the opposite of balefire.

 

Thusly, my understanding on the ending is simple.

Rand wields the True Source (both saidar and sadian(sp)) and doesn't need to draw upon it. Simply uses it to create that which he needs.

 

Just throwing out my opinion here. I like to think of it as the Pattern/Creator is giving him a sort of thank you for "sacrificing" himself, same thing with the body switch, I feel as if the Pattern/Creator is letting go of him and letting him live as he wants to.

[jwillis7]

 

 

 We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had any other body.  

 

 

How do we know this?

We don't and it isn't true. The only time we have seen something like that happen is with Birgitte when she was pulled out of Tar. Transmigration is something different entirely and the chosen don't lose their memories.

We see this with Halima, in one of the Forsaken meeting from her POV she thinks about frogetting what it was like to be a man.  That it was getting harder to remember.  But i wonder if this is just because she changed sex because none of the others in new bodies: Mordin, lanfear, graendel seem to have this problem.

[flinn]

 

 

 

 We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had any other body.  

 

 

How do we know this?

We don't and it isn't true. The only time we have seen something like that happen is with Birgitte when she was pulled out of Tar. Transmigration is something different entirely and the chosen don't lose their memories.

We see this with Halima, in one of the Forsaken meeting from her POV she thinks about frogetting what it was like to be a man.  That it was getting harder to remember.  But i wonder if this is just because she changed sex because none of the others in new bodies: Mordin, lanfear, graendel seem to have this problem.

 That doesnt mean he forgot he had another body. He just got used to being a woman. 

[jwillis7]

 

 

 

 

 We know from the forsaken that when your soul is put into a new body you slowly start to forget you had any other body.  

 

 

How do we know this?

We don't and it isn't true. The only time we have seen something like that happen is with Birgitte when she was pulled out of Tar. Transmigration is something different entirely and the chosen don't lose their memories.

We see this with Halima, in one of the Forsaken meeting from her POV she thinks about frogetting what it was like to be a man.  That it was getting harder to remember.  But i wonder if this is just because she changed sex because none of the others in new bodies: Mordin, lanfear, graendel seem to have this problem.

 That doesnt mean he forgot he had another body. He just got used to being a woman. 

i dont have the books with me, but i thought it was more she was forgetting than just getting used to

[Suttree]

It wasn't, it had nothing to do with memories.

[Hondo]

but it seems like Rand no longer has LTT's memories at the end of the book. At least that's what I take from the 'Rand al'Thor--just Rand al'Thor--woke in a dark tent by himself' line to start his second to last pov.

After Dragonmount, Rand never thought of LTT's memories as coming from a second, insane man. So it's going to take alot more than this to convince me that he "lost" LTT's memories.

[dirk]

My problem with the body switch is not metaphysical or anything like that.  The problem is that there was no explanation in the text as to what was going on for the "casual" reader.   The whole crossed-balefire-streams thing is a creation of US on this forum and others like it.  You can't just assume that someone reading WOT without participating in all this online craziness is going to know or remember anything about that.  I guess I'm being a bit critical of the way it was written - assuming the reader is too much of an online fan.

[flinn]

My problem with the body switch is not metaphysical or anything like that.  The problem is that there was no explanation in the text as to what was going on for the "casual" reader.   The whole crossed-balefire-streams thing is a creation of US on this forum and others like it.  You can't just assume that someone reading WOT without participating in all this online craziness is going to know or remember anything about that.  I guess I'm being a bit critical of the way it was written - assuming the reader is too much of an online fan.

 I disagree completely. Anyone who read the series had to see what was coming. The transmitigation was no suprise at all to me, I expected it. It was almost a let down because it was exactly what we expected.

[jwillis7]

 

My problem with the body switch is not metaphysical or anything like that.  The problem is that there was no explanation in the text as to what was going on for the "casual" reader.   The whole crossed-balefire-streams thing is a creation of US on this forum and others like it.  You can't just assume that someone reading WOT without participating in all this online craziness is going to know or remember anything about that.  I guess I'm being a bit critical of the way it was written - assuming the reader is too much of an online fan.

 I disagree completely. Anyone who read the series had to see what was coming. The transmitigation was no suprise at all to me, I expected it. It was almost a let down because it was exactly what we expected.

I have to disagree.  We were told how the DO puts souls into new bodies...  With Rand we are given nothing, are we to assume the Creator was involved? I thought RJ says the Creator does not get involved.  This is the problem.  And yes people who have been on this board for a long time have heard of the Body Swap theory, but to assume just the adverage person who reads the books once or maybe twice is pushing it.

[flinn]

 

 

My problem with the body switch is not metaphysical or anything like that.  The problem is that there was no explanation in the text as to what was going on for the "casual" reader.   The whole crossed-balefire-streams thing is a creation of US on this forum and others like it.  You can't just assume that someone reading WOT without participating in all this online craziness is going to know or remember anything about that.  I guess I'm being a bit critical of the way it was written - assuming the reader is too much of an online fan.

 I disagree completely. Anyone who read the series had to see what was coming. The transmitigation was no suprise at all to me, I expected it. It was almost a let down because it was exactly what we expected.

I have to disagree.  We were told how the DO puts souls into new bodies...  With Rand we are given nothing, are we to assume the Creator was involved? I thought RJ says the Creator does not get involved.  This is the problem.  And yes people who have been on this board for a long time have heard of the Body Swap theory, but to assume just the adverage person who reads the books once or maybe twice is pushing it.

 Rand was the avatar of the creator during the battle IMO. No mortal man could battle the D/O if they could then the Forsaken would have overthrown him years ago.

 

 I "assume" because it was apparent to me long before I ever read it on a message board.

 

There were only clues every time you turned around. The merge was going to happen.

 

 You do realize someone had to work it out before reading it on the message board or it would never have been on a message board?