Not In The Book Discussion (Full Spoilers)

[balefireruinssteaks]

Sharina Melloy wasn't even mentioned in this book.  They go on and on about how she is slotted to be the most powerful channeler there ever was...and she's off knitting sweaters somewhere or doing an Aes Sedai's laundry during the Last Battle.

[wotfan4472]

Attacking Demandred with a gateway would not work. He has the ability to tamper with gateways.... he does this when Androl tries to attack him. He opens his gatways and Demandred used them to nearly kill him. Rand could also do this. I also believe that the all caps voice is the Creator, and was good to see it.

 

Demandred's rampages actually reminded me of Megatron in this way and more effective. I also beleive that Demandred's rage and hatred turned to insanity, especially when Demandred got word that Rand was 'sighted' by Dreadlords.... that was cool by Androl in my book!!!!

[papertiger]

I appreciated the irony that at his best, Demandred had barely reached the level where Ishamael was in Book II. His pride and rage were compelling, though I didn't care for the abrupt love interest angle. Wasn't her name Shed or something?

[wotfan4472]

Shara is a very interesting event, as there was a prophecy that spoke of a land in shadow. Everyone pointed to Seanchan. I focussed on Shara. In book 4, we here that Shara is in civil war. Weren't there Sharan POVs in CoT?? at book 9 in my re read, my response to AMoL on other forums.

[wotfan4472]

Something like that, it just showed that he was unhinged by TGS and getting worse by the day.

[MountaineerWV]

C'mon guys. It's not like we need the full epilogue of every character mentioned in the series. If it's not explicitly pointed out they died in the Last Battle, use your imagination. Dobraine is going to help rebuild Cairhien. Sharina is going to be a powerful channeller that helps rebuild the WT. Bode is going to be an AS - maybe an ambassador to the Seanchan because of her connection to Mat.

 

I would be more upset by pandering list of what happened to who randomly thrown into the end of the book.

They lived happily ever after.

[Sabio]

 

O.K., back to Nakomi if you don't mind. I will assume that the grey-haired Aiel woman at the beginning of the epilogue is her. That's all we get?? Really???

Wait what? She was mentioned again!?!? I gotta start my reread soon. In finishing up TOM again before I do it. I missed that

Avi asks one of the wise ones about the name.  The wise one said she knew of no one by that name but that is was ancient name that hasn't been used in a long time. 

[Sabio]

C'mon guys. It's not like we need the full epilogue of every character mentioned in the series. If it's not explicitly pointed out they died in the Last Battle, use your imagination. Dobraine is going to help rebuild Cairhien. Sharina is going to be a powerful channeller that helps rebuild the WT. Bode is going to be an AS - maybe an ambassador to the Seanchan because of her connection to Mat.

 

I would be more upset by pandering list of what happened to who randomly thrown into the end of the book.

They lived happily ever after.

Everyone has a favorite side character or two they hope would get a bit more time, nothing wrong with that. 

[MountaineerWV]

 

 

C'mon guys. It's not like we need the full epilogue of every character mentioned in the series. If it's not explicitly pointed out they died in the Last Battle, use your imagination. Dobraine is going to help rebuild Cairhien. Sharina is going to be a powerful channeller that helps rebuild the WT. Bode is going to be an AS - maybe an ambassador to the Seanchan because of her connection to Mat.

 

I would be more upset by pandering list of what happened to who randomly thrown into the end of the book.

They lived happily ever after.

Everyone has a favorite side character or two they hope would get a bit more time, nothing wrong with that. 

 

 

 

I get that, but being upset because we don't know what happened to Cenn Buie is a little ridiculous.

[pattikins]

 

 

O.K., back to Nakomi if you don't mind. I will assume that the grey-haired Aiel woman at the beginning of the epilogue is her. That's all we get?? Really???

Wait what? She was mentioned again!?!? I gotta start my reread soon. In finishing up TOM again before I do it. I missed that

Avi asks one of the wise ones about the name.  The wise one said she knew of no one by that name but that is was ancient name that hasn't been used in a long time. 

Oh yeah, that too.  And just because the name is ancient, doesn't mean she is also.  Although re-using ancient names is strangely uncommon in this world, isn't it?  Not a lot of Arturs and Lews Therins running around, though the latter would be unlikely.

 

 I reject the notion that Nokomi is an advent of the Creator (or Verin or almost anything else I've read).  RJ was the Creator, so the headline that "God is dead" from the sixties, I think, would be true in this imperfect universe that is WOT.  What does that make Brandon?  I digress . . . .

 

Like Tolkien, the Creator is uninvolved in the daily lives of the individuals in the world He/he set in motion, sending angels/Maia to work things out in the case of LotR and letting the wheel spin over and over as it wills in WOT.  I think this reflected the personal beliefs of both men, though Tolkien's were obviously more Christian, but I have a hope that RJ's changed somewhat before his death.  

 

 I think a lot of hand-wringing here could be ameliorated greatly by realizing that since the "creator" of Randland was imperfect, and his successor arguably much less brilliant than the original (I think Mr. Sanderson would agree), the flaws and errors and inconsistencies that have manifested are natural.  To be expected.  Some of you who post here, I know, have attempted to create your own fantasy worlds, with varied success.  I know I have, and it at least heightened my appreciation for the kind of rare genius that was James Rigney.  And Brandon Sanderson!  A lesser genius is still a genius.

 

Why bother comparing a perfectly balanced universe created by a perfect Being with something that never had a chance at being perfect?  Why not just be awed by how close these two got to imagining an engaging and complex world, with just enough truth-ringing moral dilemmas and character growth and silliness, that took us away from the worst of our world for a little while. At its best, the WOT made us think on some good and evil themes and how they might apply to our lives, and it entertained us.  It stretched our critical-thinking muscle at the very least, those of us who persevered.  

[Kylin Tai'mar]

Actually I disagree, I too thought Nakomi was the creator.  And nothing she did actually interfered.  He doesn't say that the Creator never touches the world or enters it, just that the creator doesn't interfere.  Interfere is very different than observe, counsel, appear, etc.  And the primary reason we should believe that the Nakomi is the creator, is because she's the exact opposite of Shai'tan.  We've always been led to perceive the Dark One as a male figure that does not appear in the world, and if we're following many examples of balance, then we have reason to believe that the Creator would appear in the world.  She does not touch it as he does, but that does not mean she can't influence it by her presence. 

 

If saidin and and saidar are female and male, then shouldn't the Creator and the Dark One also manifest in ways that are male and female?

[Grond Sothron]

Did we ever see the Lost Song? I can't remember it ever being found by Rand for the Tinkers.

 

I wish we had seen at least some of the Fourth Age and what happened after the last battle to give closure to obvious questions. At the very least an appendix like in Return of the King that actually gives you some real details on what happened to the main characters and the world after the last battle there.

 

Did the White and Black Towers combine?

Did the Aiel abandon the Waste?

What happened to Shara after Demandred died?

How the heck did Demandred take over Shara in the first place?

Did Mat finally convince Tuon to stop using damane?

Did Tuon and Mat go on and reconquer the Seanchan continent?

Did the Isle of Mad Men start being called the Isle of Not So Mad Men since saidin was cleansed?

What happened to Sammael since it was never said he actually died?

What happened to the Waygates and Black Wind?

What happened to Mashadar?

Did the Shadowspawn after the Bore was closed drop dead due to their connection with the Dark One?

If every weave has a weave to balance it why the heck did no one figure out how to unTurn people?

Or for that matter Turn someone from the Shadow to the Light?

 

So many questions I can think of just off the top of my head that needed some kind of answers to them.

 

[Agitel]

Did we ever see the Lost Song? I can't remember it ever being found by Rand for the Tinkers.

 

The Lost Song was a myth that grew up around a talent. Some people were born with the Voice. RJ specifically said that if someone sang with the Voice to the Tinkers, they'd just nod their heads at it being a nice song, but it wouldn't meet their religious needs or anything and that they'd just continue on their search.

 

Rand did use the Voice, though. It was demonstrated that's how he made things grow and bloom around him post VoG. He got the knowledge when he reintegrated with LTT.

[jwillis7]

Did we ever see the Lost Song? I can't remember it ever being found by Rand for the Tinkers.

 

I wish we had seen at least some of the Fourth Age and what happened after the last battle to give closure to obvious questions. At the very least an appendix like in Return of the King that actually gives you some real details on what happened to the main characters and the world after the last battle there.

 

Did the White and Black Towers combine?

Did the Aiel abandon the Waste?

What happened to Shara after Demandred died?

How the heck did Demandred take over Shara in the first place?

Did Mat finally convince Tuon to stop using damane?

Did Tuon and Mat go on and reconquer the Seanchan continent?

Did the Isle of Mad Men start being called the Isle of Not So Mad Men since saidin was cleansed?

What happened to Sammael since it was never said he actually died?

What happened to the Waygates and Black Wind?

What happened to Mashadar?

Did the Shadowspawn after the Bore was closed drop dead due to their connection with the Dark One?

If every weave has a weave to balance it why the heck did no one figure out how to unTurn people?

Or for that matter Turn someone from the Shadow to the Light?

 

So many questions I can think of just off the top of my head that needed some kind of answers to them.

see all of these questions are fine with me not being answered.  Now Team Jordan probably has answers for most of these and i hope they are answered.  But this was the stroy of the Dragon and the end of the 3rd age, which is where the book ended

[JakeBarnes]

Everyone has a favorite side character or two they hope would get a bit more time, nothing wrong with that. 

Yes, and mine is Valan Luca. :(

[Sabio]

"Did Tuon and Mat go on and reconquer the Seanchan continent?"

 

If I remember right RJ was going to write a series about that.

 

"Did the Shadowspawn after the Bore was closed drop dead due to their connection with the Dark One?"

The shadowspawn are not dependent on the Do for their life, just as after the sealing the remaining shadowspawn will need to be hunted down.

 

"What happened to Shara after Demandred died?"

A vision or something mentioned Aiel and peacekeeping operations there.  They will probably be treated like a conqured land for a time, maybe the other nations wil ltry to carve out terrorties there sort of like Eurpoe and their colonies.

 

But I do see a few issues the land will need to face.

 

Will Seanchen try to chain all male channlers now?

What about the flaws in the treaty, it makes no mention of the shaido, shara (yes I know no one knew they woere going to get involved) but now that huge nation is leaderless and sided with the shadow.  Something will need to be decided what to do with them.  I everyone free to go pound the Shaido if they wish?

If Tuon keeps her word and any damane who wants to be free will, does that mean Elaida, Mogi, and Sevanna might be free one day?

[MountaineerWV]

In Avi's vision Rhuidean is a major cultural city for the Aiel. I don't see why the rest of the Aiel would not accept the Shaido back once they met their toh.

[Chesus]

Something I didn't see mentioned before:

 

Lanfear and Moghedien's mind-traps? What happened there? Seems like a pretty big puzzle piece to just disappear. Maybe I missed it.

[Terez]

In Avi's vision Rhuidean is a major cultural city for the Aiel. I don't see why the rest of the Aiel would not accept the Shaido back once they met their toh.

 

All eleven clans have blood feud with the Shaido. It's possible they will work their shit out and become a real clan again but I doubt it.

 

Something I didn't see mentioned before:

 

Lanfear and Moghedien's mind-traps? What happened there? Seems like a pretty big puzzle piece to just disappear. Maybe I missed it.

 

Both were allowed to wear their own mindtraps. They were still bound by them, but not controlled by them so long as no one else was wearing them.

[MountaineerWV]

 

 

In Avi's vision Rhuidean is a major cultural city for the Aiel. I don't see why the rest of the Aiel would not accept the Shaido back once they met their toh.

 

All eleven clans have blood feud with the Shaido. It's possible they will work their shit out and become a real clan again but I doubt it.

 

 

The Aiel are harsh, but not without ji. They gave the AS that kidnapped Rand a chance to meet their toh.

[balefireruinssteaks]

The cache of ter'angreal and angreal...there were two of them I thought and they just seemed to have landed somewhere and then been forgotten - although the little man ter'angreal library was mentioned in AMOL.  I wondered what remnants would have been helpful in the Last Battle, if any.

 

This was something I had thought of when someone was having visions or maybe it was Lews Therin talking about rifles or something.  I know Aviendha's Rhuidien experience gave us an insight into "light-sticks" which were probably rifles or guns of some sort.  And one of the Black Sisters had a "rod" that she could kill someone with which may have been a precursor to guns.

 

In any case...I was reading a while back on some theories of the various Ages and how they cycle through technological progress.  Someone mentioned that we (you and I) live in one Age, and then after our Age was the Age of Legends or something where channeling re-emerged, then the 3rd Age where Rand was the Dragon Reborn and now the 4th Age...and I was curious what everyone thought that Age represented.

[papertiger]

Where was Rand's mother? I kept thinking the DO would drag her out for real during their quality time together in the Bore.

[Jeck]

Hmm how did LTT seal in the D.O with all the forsaken in AoL? I mean did he seal the whole cave in while they were having a meeting? it seems like he didn't seal it the same way this time, he used this Seven "focus points" sealing in AoL.

 

If Rand wouldn't have used TP would the D.O been able to counterattack both saidin and saidar? If so, we should be lucky that they didn't use saidar as well in AoL.

 

I assume L.T.T used somekind of sa'angreal to the AoL sealing, but Rand used 4 person linked +  sa'angreal + 3 powers, will this sealing last for like 15 000 years because the last one was only sealed with saidin and lasted 3000 years?

And I get the feeling  that this sealing technique is much more solid than the "seven focus point" seal.

[jwillis7]

Hmm how did LTT seal in the D.O with all the forsaken in AoL? I mean did he seal the whole cave in while they were having a meeting? it seems like he didn't seal it the same way this time, he used this Seven "focus points" sealing in AoL.

 

If Rand wouldn't have used TP would the D.O been able to counterattack both saidin and saidar? If so, we should be lucky that they didn't use saidar as well in AoL.

 

I assume L.T.T used somekind of sa'angreal to the AoL sealing, but Rand used 4 person linked +  sa'angreal + 3 powers, will this sealing last for like 15 000 years because the last one was only sealed with saidin and lasted 3000 years?

And I get the feeling  that this sealing technique is much more solid than the "seven focus point" seal.

he did it just like this

 

[Celebel]

Maybe I missed this in an earlier book, but did we ever get a definitive answer on who ordered the attack on Algarin's manor?

 

Moghedien. As we have learned in AMoL, she was good at impersonating other Forsaken, including male ones. The manor attack was ordered by "Sammael", after thr original was confirmed to be dead by RJ.

 

I suspect, that she was also the one who appeared as Rand to Masema and made him even madder, as well as opposed to Travelling to his idol.