Prophecy; New and Fulfilled. (Full Spoilers)

[dfchang]

Ah that's right.  Thanks for clarification.  Anything thoughts on Avi having quadruplets?

[fionwe1987]

Ah that's right.  Thanks for clarification.  Anything thoughts on Avi having quadruplets?

I suspect the oddness is going to be that they look like Moridin. 

[dfchang]

LoL

[dfchang]

Min sees a laughing face as one of the visions over Mat.   Everything else has come to pass.  What is the significance of the laughing face?

[MattTaz]

Min sees a laughing face as one of the visions over Mat.   Everything else has come to pass.  What is the significance of the laughing face?

Bathalmel?? sorry, the Forsaken in the first book, he was so decrepid that he had a laughing face mask on - i think :P

[KakitaOCU]

I'd imagine Mat issues would be things that would have happened in the next novels that we're sadly not getting any longer.

 

I had forgotten that there was the specifics of Three on the boat with Rand. That almost definately ties Nicola's vision to the same.

 

On the off chance that it's not, I don't see the timing nessecarily off, The World on the edge of a blade doesn't have to mean Rand. It could mean the future in terms of channeling or the White Tower. If not for certain actions to fix how the Aiel handle things we were looking at the destruction of the White Tower, Aiel, The Black Tower, all of it.

[Zefram]

Aiel prophecies.

 

"yet the remnant of a remnant he shall save, and they shall live"

 

And "if they ever fail the Aes Sedai again, the Aes Sedai will destroy them"

 

On first one, were remnents of Aiel who followed Rand "Saved" or only those who remained (or returned - ie Shaido) to Aiel Waste survive?

 

And did second prophecy come true - or was it implied in Aviendha's visision that when her daughter betrayed the peace that Rand (channeler) created, the Aiel were destroyed by Seanchan damane/sal'dam (channelers) and channelers = Aes Sedai?

 

 

[MattTaz]

Taim, Logain, Rand then Narishma were the male channelers born with the spark. I just thought the 'he who follows' or whatever it was

just referred that.

[Amandera]

I think 'who draws it out shall follow after' is one of the most obvious ones. Moridin drew it and following after is the body swap part.

 

I thought prophecies about slaying his people with the sword of peace and such meant Aiel would follow the Way of the Leaf but Rand's peace - Dragon's Peace- is peace of the sword. So Aiel instead became the peacekeepers.

 

And the Glory of the Light did shine upon him.
And the Peace of the Light did he give me.
Binding nations to him. Making one of many.
Yet the shards of hearts did give wounds.
And what was once did come again
— in fire and in storm
splitting all in twain.
For his peace . . .
— for his peace . . .
. . . was the peace . . .
. . . was the peace . . .
. . . of the sword .
And the Glory of the Light did shine upon him.

And I guess Shaido is the remnant of a remnant after all.

 

Melaine and Bair dreamed of you on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see, and a scale tilting first one way then the other.

The scale thing refers to Rand's fight with Shai'tan when he stepped outside the Pattern I think. First DO's possible world, then Rand's and so on. The former part may refer to three women taking three parts in TG. Avi watched his back, Elayne led, Min bound the nine moons to him. Same thing with Nicola's Foretelling.

 

 

Daughter of the Night,¹ she walks again.
The ancient war, she yet fights.
Her new lover² she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.
Who shall stand against her coming?
The Shining Walls³ shall kneel.

This one baffles me honestly. Her new lover is Perrin, not Rand as most of us thought. But does Perrin really serve Mierin? He beat her Compulsion after all. And how did Perrin die, if his defeat then near-death counts as dying, sorry but that's really unsatisfactory.

Perrin shall stand against her coming, I think. I have no idea about the Shining Walls though. Does that mean they will kneel to her? I can't think of anything that would qualify as such. Or if it was kneeling to someone else, why in Lanfear's prophecy?

 

The man who channels² stands alone.
He gives his friends for sacrifice.
Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.
Which will he choose? Which will he choose?
What hand shelters? What hand slays?

First two lines refers to Rand's choice to let go of his guilt and focus on his own battle. The second two; death beyond dying means body swap and life eternal was his real death and return to TAR with the other Heroes. Or I am wrong and these two lines are connected to the last line. Which is the choice between killing Shai'tan or sheltering the Pattern from his touch. I, and Rand in TGS as well, had thought it referred to his capability of destruction and protection but this one makes more sense. I guess the right hand was the sheltering one.

 

 

One Eyed Fool travelling halls of mourning is Mat in Sindhol. I'm pretty sure of this. Last day of Fallen Blacksmith's pride is Perrin's defeat to Slayer. I'm even more sure of it, he was pretty shaken up about it. I think First Among Vermin may be Logain, as he was the Sealbreaker and first among Asha'man. The Broken Wolf, though, I am anything but sure. I don't think it's Rand anymore, people didn't lose their belief in him and Rand was not broken. I am thinking of Demandred but not sure. His fall did 'bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men' and did 'shake their very will itself'. Only the men were Sharans. Of course there is the problem I can't remember him ever being described as a wolf. And I doubt Lan could be described as 'Midnight Towers', though perhaps Seven Towers of Malkier counts. Like I said, not sure.

The rest is about Rand's fight. His blood did bring darkness, that was pretty straightforward.

 

 

"And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides, when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is, all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword, while the winds of the Shadow grow."

Connected to WO's and Nicola's Dreams and Foretelling: Rand's decision between killing or imprisoning Shai'tan. I had thought right and left hand were Mat and Perrin, but they may literally be Rand's hands.

 

 

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

Nothing special. Sun rose in dawn, eclipse came when Rand's blood was shed, eclipse ended. Thus sun 'dawned' twice. Then it was shrouded by clouds altogether.

 

 

"The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south."

Well, mystery. I don't think it was Seanchan and Rand making alliance. They pretty much all fought together. May refer to the four battlefields at the start or to all of them fighting as one.

 

 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one."

It was TP and OP after all. I always believed in it. 'He' was Moridin though, I did not see that coming. And Callandor amplifies TP, too. Very bad of RJ to say that angreal can't be used with TP.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one."

It was TP and OP after all. I always believed in it. 'He' was Moridin though, I did not see that coming. And Callandor amplifies TP, too. Very bad of RJ to say that angreal can't be used with TP.

Why? RJ was perfectly right. Typical angreal can't magnify the TP. That's why Moridin was so shocked Callandor was a TP sa'angreal. Its a special quality of Callandor, as is the flaw.

[MrBlack]

Timing is wrong for the boat. The future teeters on the edge of a blade. Presumably, Rand's future. I doubt there's anything significantly dire after his 'death'.

I don't think the "future" in this instance refers to Rand's future, but the future of the world.

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

 

The first two sentences refer specifically to Rand and his fate.  After that, we have what everyone else has to deal with: a land split between the Seanchan and Rand's alliance, and a world where male channelers equal female channelers once again.  As Aviendha's vision in Rhuidean showed, the fate of this world was balanced on the edge of a blade.  It could easily collapse into war again once the Last Battle is done.

[Amandera]

edit: answer to fionwe1987

 

But the quote wasn't like that at all.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=188#18

Wotmania
Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

Robert Jordan
No.

It's as straightforward as it gets. But Moridin indeed did use a male angreal (granted, Callandor is a sa'angreal but that does not turn this into an Aes Sedai answer) when he channeled the True Power.

 

Why I'm bothered by this: I was one of those that thought TP and OP would be used together to seal the Bore. Exactly as it happened. TP to touch the DO to protect from tainting. I was sure the three become one meant three Powers used together. I was sure magnifying taint meant it could be used to amplify TP and I was sure two women in a circle meant saidar would be needed as well. Though I thought Rand would draw it directly either by his link with Moridin or his allowance in TGS, not through a forced circle.

Then I saw the interview. And the theory fell apart.

 

Flawed or not, atypical or not, Callandor still is a sa'angreal. And we've always been told that TP was a matter of Shai'tan giving access. What happened is a contradiction to both.

[Sarlic]

I disagree that that's as straightforward as it gets, for one of the reasons you've already stated: Callandor is a sa'angreal.

 

Second, I think RJ answered a *very* poorly worded question accurately. What would have been better asked was, "Is there an angreal-type device that magnifies the True Power" or something along those lines. Callandor is not a standard "male angreal" in any sense. If you don't buy that explanation, then we're back to, well, it's a sa'angreal.

 

RJ was perfectly in his right to say no to that, because there's a distinct difference between an angreal and a sa'angreal. The question was too non-specific.

 

Definitely not as straightforward as it gets. With RJ, when the fans asked him questions, they needed to be very, very specific. I think many of the RAFO's that we got were because questions were phrased in such a way that he couldn't eek his way around a spoiler.

[fionwe1987]

edit: answer to fionwe1987

 

But the quote wasn't like that at all.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=188#18

Wotmania

Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

 

Robert Jordan

No.

It's as straightforward as it gets. But Moridin indeed did use a male angreal (granted, Callandor is a sa'angreal but that does not turn this into an Aes Sedai answer) when he channeled the True Power.

 

Why I'm bothered by this: I was one of those that thought TP and OP would be used together to seal the Bore. Exactly as it happened. TP to touch the DO to protect from tainting. I was sure the three become one meant three Powers used together. I was sure magnifying taint meant it could be used to amplify TP and I was sure two women in a circle meant saidar would be needed as well. Though I thought Rand would draw it directly either by his link with Moridin or his allowance in TGS, not through a forced circle.

Then I saw the interview. And the theory fell apart.

 

Flawed or not, atypical or not, Callandor still is a sa'angreal. And we've always been told that TP was a matter of Shai'tan giving access. What happened is a contradiction to both.

As pointed out, and angreal and a sa'angreal are not the same.

 

As for access: The Dark One did grant access, initially. That's why Moridin was able to draw it, and Callandor started glowing red. Then, when Nynaeve and Moiraine took control and linked with Rand, he started drawing in even more of the TP. At this point, the DO tries to stop the flow, but its too big to stem.

 

As we were told, its a matter of granting access. But we have nothing to say that once you're granted access, and start channeling it, the DO can stop you mid-way.

[Amandera]

Sa'angreal are essentially very strong angreal. They work exactly the same way, the only difference is the amount of Power they give. We have super-computers and the computers at our home. Difference between the two is one has much better hardware. But does that mean that super-computers are not computers? It is exactly the same thing with angreal and sa'angreal.

 

I did not mean about DO stopping the flow. It was another argument for Callandor. DO chooses whether you're granted TP, and how much you can channel it. Then we have a quote that angreal can't be used with TP. Well, the two of them tells me what happened should have been impossible.

[lolguy26]

I have a question, are there any new prophecies??

[fyodor]

Here's one from Min, the interpretation of which is pretty clear.

 

[ACOS: 33, A Bath, 526]

"I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."

[fyodor]

This Egwene dream presumably refers to Moridin and not Jahar's role in the cleansing, though I'm not sure if Moridin would be described as a "dark young man"

 

 

[ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 203]

A dark young man held an object in his hand that shone so brightly she could not see what it was.

[Amandera]

Yeah, it's definitely Moridin, though Callandor glowed red. Narishma is probably the biggest red herring in the series, lol.

[Suttree]

I was actually pretty surprised how much Moiraine leaned on the prophecies during the FoM debate. Only about a hundred pages past that so I'm being careful with what I read here but shouldn't everyone else have been up on that? Seemed somewhat heavy handed how she storms in and points it all out.

[dfchang]

LoL.  She sounded like a schoolteacher.

 

Then again, I bet  we'd be surprised how ignorant people are of the Prophecies of the Dragon.

 

How many people do you think have read the Bible . . . all of it and then with understanding and recall for instance?

 

I'd guess precious few.

[Terez]

 

This Egwene dream presumably refers to Moridin and not Jahar's role in the cleansing, though I'm not sure if Moridin would be described as a "dark young man"

 

 

[ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 203]

A dark young man held an object in his hand that shone so brightly she could not see what it was.

 

Narishma is not any more dark than Moridin. Narishma has pale skin when he doesn't have a tan, and Moridin's body is described as being as young as Rand's.

[sleepinghour]

I was actually pretty surprised how much Moiraine leaned on the prophecies during the FoM debate. Only about a hundred pages past that so I'm being careful with what I read here but shouldn't everyone else have been up on that? Seemed somewhat heavy handed how she storms in and points it all out.

 

Especially considering it could have ended badly if they'd done the same in TSR... Moiraine wanted Rand to fulfill the "lead the spears to war" prophecy by leading the Tairens to war with Illian and Sammael.

[Terez]

I love how she interpreted that prophecy wrong...again. Or really, I don't love it. It's just funny.

[neverspeakawordagain]

Like a Seanchan woman handing Egwene an a'dam, which I suspect was only left unfulfilled because ewot missed it on their list of prophecies.

 

You don't think Leilwin pledging her life to Egwene in all things is the functional equivalent of her handing Egwene a leash to coller her with?