Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Inkor]

She is Aviendha's devoted and adoring slave.

Aviendha use a strong compulsion on Graendal?

[dragosh]

i have a queston about moghedien as well.

tuon and egwene made a deal that whoever wants to be collared can be collared and vice versa.

 

so, can moghedien be free, if she choose not to be collared.

 

or will the deal not upheld?

 

either way mogy on a leash, doesn't mean that she never can escape in the future.

so off all the forsaken , at the end she was the only one who survived.

 

 

second question,

why was it good thing that rhuarc died for the future of the aiel?

will there be new chiefs , since they have a new role as peacekeepers.

5 of the chief clans died, who survived?

[Guest PiotrekS]

Thread title says full spoilers so its all

Of course. I just feel sorry for those poor desperate fools who can't resist and click that mouse button almost against their wills. Their eyes will be seared from their skull!!!

 

I can stop whenever I want. Bartender, next spoiler please!

Seriously though, I always cared more about literary qualities of the book and worldbuilding than any particular plot resolutions. While I'm curious, spoilers don't ruin it for me. They even help to mitigate expectations and avoid disappointment, which unfortunately has been my companion since TGS.

 

She is Aviendha's devoted and adoring slave.

First thing in this thread that made me smile.6

[Arc]

So positively no more Dobraine since TGS?

 

Or Merilille and Talaan since KoD?

 

Does Dearid at least gets mentioned this time?

 

What about Gaul - Bain - Chiad triangle?

 

Valan Luca? Guess there's little chance of him appearing amidst all the fighting going on.

 

Have any of the party arriving at Tar Valon - Domon, Juilin, the sul'dam, etc. - still some significant role?  

 

-

Or have they all played their part and are just faded out.

Oh, and what about Tylee and Min's vision about Egwene falling from a cliff and the Seanchan woman saving her?

[dragosh]

So positively no more Dobraine since TGS?

 

Or Merilille and Talaan since KoD?

 

Does Dearid at least gets mentioned this time?

 

What about Gaul - Bain - Chiad triangle?

 

Valan Luca? Guess there's little chance of him appearing amidst all the fighting going on.

 

Have any of the party arriving at Tar Valon - Domon, Juilin, the sul'dam, etc. - still some significant role?  

 

-

 

Or have they all played their part and are just faded out.

 

Oh, and what about Tylee and Min's vision about Egwene falling from a cliff and the Seanchan woman saving her?

Leilwin Shipless saved egwene once...so she is the seanchan i suppose

 

the rest didn 't play a role except gaul, who went hunting in TAR in flesh with perrin, perrin left him there to protect rhand in tar...afterward don't remember anymore if he hooked up...

 

the epilogue isn't about who is going to marry with who or that kinda stuff...it's about perrin finding faile,about the death of rhand and his secret swap...some minor things were hinted or told like cadsuana becoming amyrlin, tuon pregnant,etc...the rest happens offscreen

[Fains nose]

What happened with Loial and the ogier and what happened with the book he was writing

[dragosh]

What happened with Loial and the ogier and what happened with the book he was writing

loial and the ogier were described as fierce fighters, even singing during fighting...After the battle he was looking for mat and perrin for more information for his book, since he believes that he needs the info fresh so that the people can remember all the details...

in the end we saw a quote of his book, i think it is a quote that we already read before...

 

oja, all the ogier sang to the trees that rhand created just before the bttle started...for the first time humans grew tall trees instead of cutting them...

[Sarlic]

So I just finished....

 

At some point while I was reading, I wanted to grab a pad and paper and make notes about particular scenes that struck me but decided not to.  What stood out at the end would be worth mentioning.

 

Good God -- from about Chapter 5 forward, the pedal to the metal and it *never* lets up.  As a *reader* I had battle fatigue!

 

A few moments that really got my emotions moving:

 

Moiraine appearing at Merrilor

 

Egwene and Rand's final (living) moment together

 

Rand and Tam, letting go.

 

The borderland monarchs to Lan, following Malkier

 

Olver blowing the Horn

 

Mat taking over as general for the combined forces of Light (FINALLY!)

 

The final quote of the series, which, I believe, appears on RJ tombstone.  So wonderfully fitting.

 

 

A few things that didn't "disappoint" but I wish had turned out differently:

 

Demandred and Shara....  Not quite out of left field, but too *easy* -- that's really the best way I can express it.  Shara was a mere mention throughout the entire series and ends up being a major player without any real introduction into the storyline.

 

Padan Fain.... wow, thought there would be a lot more there!

 

Healing Siuan/Leane -- too bad, was hoping they'd get healed back up.  But quite honestly, they had such little screen time in this book, it was such a minor plot line.

 

Elaida... given that the Seanchan are keeping their damane, would love to have seen her one last time.

 

Moiraine and Nynaeve at Shayol Ghul -- not really much for them to do, was there, right up until the end?  Seems like they just kind of sat there and stayed "focused" aside from Nynaeve and Alanna.

 

 

Overall, I'm coming away from the series overwhelmingly satisfied and more than a little sad.  I've "lived" with these characters for a decade and a half, and now their story is told.  Bittersweet.

 

Now, I need to re-read the portions of the battle between Rand and the Dark One!

 

 

[KakitaOCU]

So since the Horn has been brought up.

 

Are there any new members to the ranks of Heroes? Or any heroes missing that we should think are reborn somewhere?

[Sarlic]

So since the Horn has been brought up. Are there any new members to the ranks of Heroes? Or any heroes missing that we should think are reborn somewhere?

Yes indeed -- Jain Farstrider, Noal Charin himself!

 

And speaking of the Horn -- did *anyone* ever think that Mat's death in Rhuidean would sever his ties to the Horn?  *THAT* was a ridiculously awesome reveal, I never saw that coming!

 

I believe Gaidal Cain was missing.

[Zefram]

Brigitte what happened to her? WAs she able to get back to reincarnation cycle?

[MrBlack]

 

So since the Horn has been brought up. Are there any new members to the ranks of Heroes? Or any heroes missing that we should think are reborn somewhere?

Yes indeed -- Jain Farstrider, Noal Charin himself!

 

And speaking of the Horn -- did *anyone* ever think that Mat's death in Rhuidean would sever his ties to the Horn?  *THAT* was a ridiculously awesome reveal, I never saw that coming!

 

I believe Gaidal Cain was missing.

Well, if anyone deserves to be a Hero of the Horn, it's Jain Farstrider.

 

Birgitte mentioned that Gaidal had disappeared from TAR prior to being ripped out, so it doesn't surprise me that he's not among the Heroes.

 

Was it the hanging that severed Mat from the Horn, or his death in Caemlyn?

[Isabel]

Mat's dead was by ravhin and not rhuidean. He was brought back by balefire.

And it has been discussed, but most thought he was still linked. But it was an option.

[Isabel]

Mat's dead was by ravhin and not rhuidean. He was brought back by balefire.

And it has been discussed, but most thought he was still linked. But it was an option.

[Sarlic]

Ah, yes, likely the Rahvin encounter, rather than Rhuidean.  Forgot about the balefire episode.

 

Birgitte, after being killed by Mellar, is called back by the Horn and returns to Elayne to save the day.  This was somewhat glossed over -- just happened, without explanation.  The only explanation, then, is that Moghedien didn't truly rip her from the wheel.  Just knocked her out of TAR.

[KakitaOCU]

Now that's loyalty from your Warder. :)

 

Speculation on the Horn, not really expecting it to even be thought of in the texts, but is Jain a new hero or was he always a hero and just not around the first time because he was, you know, alive?

[Sarlic]

Unless I missed it, they didn't really say.  His appearance was pretty brief.

[Jimmy305]

Long time Lurker. Now that we know that Demandred was gathering his armies in Shara do we also find out what alter ego he had been using in previous books? Wasn't his alter ego supposedly mentioned but never seen on-screen (which led to the Roerdan predictions among others)?

[KakitaOCU]

It was confirmed that we had not seen him onscreen at as of, I want to say TGS, might have been KoD. It was never confirmed that he had been mentioned at all. I believe the concensus is that he was never onscreen save as himself. He was busy shaping Shara into his own domain, safely away from Rand and the Forces of Light's interferance, ready to lead his troops into the Last Battle from out of left field.

 

Actually incredibly well thought out. It also fits the best with his little three-way alliance he had with Mesanna and Semirhage. He took Shara, Semirhage took Seanchan, Mesanna worked from in the White Tower. This would have given them two nations that each outnumbered Rand Land along with crippling what was seen as the central leadership of the Light.

 

Didn't quite work out that way due to Mesanna's and Semirhage's failures, but it was a good plan.

[Sarlic]

His alter ego is "The Wyld" -- a Dragon-like figure in Sharan prophecies.  I can't really recall this being mentioned in the previous books. 

 

But like I said, I think that big reveal was somewhat of a letdown.  It didn't really come out of nowhere, but it felt like it was too easy/lazy.  Or maybe we were searching so hard for an alter-ego in Randland, and we assumed that Demandred/Shara was a cop out because it wasn't at all subtle.  I think it sort of is a cop out, but -- I'm over it.  :-)

 

(BS/RJ paid homage to the Roedran theory, however, at the Fields of Merrilor.  Seems Rand shared our theory as well!)

[KakitaOCU]

Which raises two fun points regarding the whole situation. First: What if Demandred set Roedran up as the red herring? Not even by means of actually compulsing him, but maybe being just active enough in Murandy that it became "obvious" to those looking that he was there.

 

For the second, I wonder if the Sharan prophecies were actually about Demandred or if they were meant to be about Rand and Rand made a mistake in never going there.

[Jimmy305]

Thanks for the quick response. Disappointing that so much time was spent trying to figure out his alter-ego and it was from some previously unknown prophecy. Had RJ and BS simply RAFOd the answer I would be fine with the Shara thing. But the fact that they said we could have figured it out from the previous books seems a little too much.

 

One other item, someone else on this thread wondered how Bryne was compelled through his dreams even though he was bonded as a warder. Weren't we told early on in the series (by Moraine i think) that the warder bond provides certain advantages including protection/warding of dreams? Am i remembering this incorrectly or is this addressed in AMOL as some new/unknown technique from the AOL?

[dfchang]

 

 

She is Aviendha's devoted and adoring slave.

Aviendha use a strong compulsion on Graendal?

No, Aviendha would never use Compulsion on anyone.

[fyodor]

Do we learn more details about Taim? Was he always a Darkfriend? Was he the same guy who declared himself a False Dragon? Who trained him, etc? Thanks!

[Sarlic]

For the second, I wonder if the Sharan prophecies were actually about Demandred or if they were meant to be about Rand and Rand made a mistake in never going there.

 

I'm pretty sure I read that right, that he was fulfilling some kind of Sharan prophecy and that's how he got them to follow him.  (And having one of their leaders fall in love with him didn't hurt!)

 

Thanks for the quick response. Disappointing that so much time was spent trying to figure out his alter-ego and it was from some previously unknown prophecy. Had RJ and BS simply RAFOd the answer I would be fine with the Shara thing. But the fact that they said we could have figured it out from the previous books seems a little too much. One other item, someone else on this thread wondered how Bryne was compelled through his dreams even though he was bonded as a warder. Weren't we told early on in the series (by Moraine i think) that the warder bond provides certain advantages including protection/warding of dreams? Am i remembering this incorrectly or is this addressed in AMOL as some new/unknown technique from the AOL?

 

That was my thought as well.  But then, maybe we were all focused on subtleties, we overlooked the obvious, easy possibility (or not overlooked, but wrote it off.)

 

And you're right about the warder bond, it's supposed to ward dreams.  But I'm wondering what, exactly, it wards.  Everything?  And, are we sure Graendal was actually doing this to their dreams, or was she merely locating the Great Captains in TAR, leaving TAR, and weaving on them in their sleep (in the real world.)  I thought I recalled her leaving TAR to do it to Rodel near Shayol Ghul.

 

 

 

 

She is Aviendha's devoted and adoring slave.

Aviendha use a strong compulsion on Graendal?

No, Aviendha would never use Compulsion on anyone.

 

Graendal's weave rebounded on her, and she ended up being Aviendha's "slave"