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What would you do if you were a male channeler in WoT?


Hagazussa
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So what would you do if you lived in the WoT world and where a man who found out that he could channel? Now just to make the question a bit more difficult let us say that this is in the year 700 or something like that so the cleansing of saidin, which you off course would not know of or think to be possible, would be far in the future. So you are a man, you can channel and your future prospects are to either die, go mad and go on a rampage with the Power or get caught by the Aes Sedai and get gentled. So what do you do? Do you kill yourself, try to use the Power as little as possible and live undetected? Do you declare yourself the Dragon and hope for glory? Do you go to the blight and hope to take as many Shadowspawn with you as you can before you go down? Or do you surrender to the Aes Sedai and accept a fate worse than death?

 

I would definitely not surrender to the Aes Sedai, the whole concept of severing sounds rather well horrific so I would run for the hills if I saw as much as as the fringe of a shawl if I where a male channeler in Wheel of Time, and if I got caught I would scream, beg, fight whatever I thought might help me get away. I would probably try to live a normal life and just sneak away to channel in the bushes now and again and when it was needed and hope to not attract unwanted attention, and when I felt myself beginning to go insane I would go up to the blight and do as much good as possible before I was taken down. 

 

So what would you do if you where a male channeler in Wheel of Time?

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The same thing as you. I would try to live as normally as possible and when it was getting close to madness/death, I would throw everything I had into fighting shadowspawn to end my life with meaning and honor.

Edited by Ryrin
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I rather think that I would've made the trip to TV and asked to be gentled. If we do it soon enough, there's no reason why I couldn't live a full life afterwards, and no reason for anyone to know what I used to be capable of.

 

Every other option leads to disaster.

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Well we have had the debate before so I know you do not agree, but I really do not think it would matter very much how quickly gentling is done, if someone have started channeling loosing it will be devastating. However having Cads find you would help and would give a longer life most likely than staying an channeler would, but hell I still would not do it, I would rather go insane and die whole in three years than live ten or fifteen or twenty with a piece of my soul missing.

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I would want to think that I would go to Tar Valon, but in all honesty it takes less balls to try and conquer a kingdom for yourself than that for most males in WoT so you've gotta ask yourself one question. Do you have the stones for it?

 

And remember one additional thing. Channelling is addictive, once you start its almost impossible to stop, but I think if you caught it fast enough. i.e within 1-2 months of first channelling then being Gentled would most likely not be quite as devastating as the sense of loss should not hit you as hard.

 

Though in all honesty your in serious trouble regardless

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Sure, unless you begin to imagine spiders walking all over you in your second day. Or a BA burns down your house with your kids in it just for the heck of it. Or you have a nightmare and unknowingly squash every other person in your village.

 

Either way, why would you risk it?

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I would want to think that I would go to Tar Valon, but in all honesty it takes less balls to try and conquer a kingdom for yourself than that for most males in WoT so you've gotta ask yourself one question. Do you have the stones for it?

 

Well like it say in the foreword to the comics, no man go to gentling willingly. I do not think many would have had the stones for it no. I know I would not have had that if I where a male channeler living in the Wheel of Time world, killing myself, perhaps, gentling, no.

 

And remember one additional thing. Channelling is addictive, once you start its almost impossible to stop, but I think if you caught it fast enough. i.e within 1-2 months of first channelling then being Gentled would most likely not be quite as devastating as the sense of loss should not hit you as hard.

 

I think that if it is done before you know you are channeling then the sense of loss would not hit you as hard. For example take Rand, when he removes the fatigue from Bela he do not even know what he is doing, if he was gentled right after than then he would most likely, and I am guessing here, always have a feeling of something being missing, but I do not think he would go into a suicidal depression or just stop wanting to live as he would not know what he is missing, granted the gentling is extremely painful but pain one can get over so yes if you catch it before a new channeler know they care channeling my guess is that gentling would suck but they would survive just fine and have long and good lives afterwards.

 

However I do not think it matter if you have been channeling for two weeks or two hundred years, if you have ever done it consciously living without is extremely hard. Imagine that you have done the most pleasurable thing thing ever, so pleasurable that everything else pales in comparison, sex, food, nothing holds a candle to it. What you have been doing make you feel so alive that you feel half asleep any other time, and let you experience the world around you so clearly that it appear like you are looking at the world though a dirty window at other times. With this thing you have been doing you have quite literary been touching the very essence of the universe and then in a flash of pain it is gone, you can never experience it again, but you can not forget either for you can see it in the back of your mind at all times, you just can not touch it and you know that you will never, ever feel that which is the greatest pleasure you have ever felt again. Would it then matter if you had been doing it for only two months?

 

I think that if a channeler have been channeling consciously then they will get that enormous sense of loss. Off course I do think it will matter if there is anything else in their lives as well, if a man have a wife and children or a profession that he can go back to it would be easier to survive, and a man can be helped to better handle the loss as with Cads method, but if you have been channeling actively you will be hit hard with the loss and the depression that comes with it.

 

One or two years of channelling should be enough to get a decent fortune for wife and kids, followed by retirement in a stedding.

 

Ehm...I hope your wife is a very big and strong one who can hold you down and tie you down then. Now assuming you do not go insane before you get to that Stedding, like it have been pointed out before channeling is extremely addictive. Some male Aes Sedai under the breaking tried to go to a Stedding, none of them managed to stay, they need to channel just get to strong, I mean if it was not addictive then a man who start to channel could just go...oh whoa better not do that...and just stop, that do not happen. Like the books describe it, the need to channel is just as strong as the need to breathe. Now imagine my paragraph over about something better than anything else you can ever experience, about touching the essence of the universe, but instead of it being good for good it is waiting for your just outside of that Stedding, would you stay?

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I'd go to all the monarchs of the world and kill every single one, and let the lord of chaos rule. And balefire any ageless-face woman in the world out of the pattern. That will be sweet retribution for all the killings that they done to all my brothers. I'd make a final stand on dragon mount and channel saidin until self implode. Going out with a bang is better than to be robbed of my self being. 

Edited by zion213
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                   THE WHEEL OF TIME


Now there is no end
The wheel will turn, my friend

I'm in flames
Cause I have touched the light
It pulls me son
we shall be one
Forevermore
That's all I want
It's all I need
Everything is fixed
There's no chance
There's no choice

It's calling me
"Saidin"
So precious and sweet
My mind keeps fading away

It's scratching deeper
My sole reliever
How can I find you now?

Passing through the flames
I see
How terror will rise
It soon will be over
Oh Father of lies
Like foul winds at twilight
It's coming over me
What was and what will be?
What is?
I don't know

Driving me insane
Just feel the heat
Madness creeps in
I'll tear it down

There's no end
Wheel of time
It keeps on spinning
There's no beginning
Turn the wheel of time
There's no beginning
Just keep on spinning

Light - it binds me
Light - it blinds me
Light - it finds me
Light denies me now

I creep along
So desperate and tired
Let me ask you
Why?
I am what I am
Prophecies I am the chosen
"Taveren"
The flame will grow
Feel the heat
I'll keep on breathing
After all there's no tomorrow

Wheel of time
Save my soul, find a way
And if I fail, will it all be over
Oh wheel of time

The vision
So fleeting and vague
Once again I will bring down the mountain
One last glimpse
It is constantly slipping away

The young man said
"I will never give up"
The inner war
I can hold against it
My mind, my mind
My mind's in darkness

The young man says
"I will never give in"
The prophecy Behold It's true
I conquer the flame
To release the insane
I'm crying
I cannot erase
I'm the dragon reborn
and in madness
I soon shall prevail
Twice I'll be marked and
Twice I shall live
The heron sets my path
And name me true
Twice I'll be marked and
Twice I shall die
My memory's gone
But twice I pay the price

wheel of time
Save my soul
find a way
May it be as the pattern has chosen
Oh, wheel of time
Turn the wheel of time
It keeps on spinning
There's no beginning
There's no end, wheel of time
There's no beginning
Just keep no spinning

Shine on
Embrace and deny me
Turn on, wheel of time
Shine on
You've burnt, now guide me
Weave on, wheel of time
Oh wheel of time

Edited by zion213
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Ride Into Obsession

 

Come, I show you the end

You're dammed

Cause no one can defy me

Just watch these maddened creatures

Like you they all once reached out

A war to win

But I'm gonna burn this vision down

 

Call me the father of lies

Just watch these saddened creatures

they've torned you into their savior

 

You hold your ground

Until your last breath

You'll twist then turn

and now you're falling down

 

The battle rages on

And forever and ever

The wheel will turn

 

Let ages come and go

The will turn now

The wheel will turn

Another ride into obsession

I am reborn

The wheel will turn now

And I am driven to obsession

 

All these dying men

try to understand

They all followed the sign

 

Ir's a cyrcle's end

There no hope

for a while

From the ashes arise

 

Can't save her

Enjoy the flames

So precious, so pure

 

and you try

You're sure to fail

And madness

Is the price you've to pay

 

Unholy grounds

Witness your last breath

The cyrcle ends

And you're stumbling

 

The battle will go on

and forever and ever

It's raging on

 

Let ages come and go

The wheel will turn now

The wheel will turn

Another ride into obsession

I am reborn

The wheel will turn now

And I'm driven to obsession

 

Through the flames you'll see me

You'll be mine, believe me

This is the moment I long for

 

Wake up there's a storm to face and

Right now while the land lies bleeding

It's me, I conquer your soul

 

Still I'll be on my way

Oh light, let me out of here I pray

 

And over and over and over again

There is no beginning

No end

 

This war, it still goes on

And forever and ever

I will return

 

Let ages come and go

The wheel will turn now

The wheel will turn

Another ride into obsession

I am reborn

The wheel will turn now

And I'm driven to obsession

 

Light - so serene

True source reign over me

There's no end and

There's no beginning

"You will never be alone"

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What I would do if faced with madness and with the power of a god is simple: enjoy the power and not worry about the madness. Now this might eventually lead to disaster, but my thinking is that by giving me such power, the worst has already happened. If anything, my insanity will probably be better for the world than my sanity.

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Sure, unless you begin to imagine spiders walking all over you in your second day. Or a BA burns down your house with your kids in it just for the heck of it. Or you have a nightmare and unknowingly squash every other person in your village.

 

Either way, why would you risk it?

Why not? Why would someone risk death by becoming a soldier, policemen, etc. Why would someone risk driving a car, you could kill or be killed easily while driving (1 in 84 in the us will die in a car accident).

 

One or two years of channelling should be enough to get a decent fortune for wife and kids, followed by retirement in a stedding.

 

 

Ehm...I hope your wife is a very big and strong one who can hold you down and tie you down then. Now assuming you do not go insane before you get to that Stedding, like it have been pointed out before channeling is extremely addictive. Some male Aes Sedai under the breaking tried to go to a Stedding, none of them managed to stay, they need to channel just get to strong, I mean if it was not addictive then a man who start to channel could just go...oh whoa better not do that...and just stop, that do not happen. Like the books describe it, the need to channel is just as strong as the need to breathe. Now imagine my paragraph over about something better than anything else you can ever experience, about touching the essence of the universe, but instead of it being good for good it is waiting for your just outside of that Stedding, would you stay?

Some of those channellers lived for decades in the Steddings

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I'd go to all the monarchs of the world and kill every single one, and let the lord of chaos rule. And balefire any ageless-face woman in the world out of the pattern. That will be sweet retribution for all the killings that they done to all my brothers. I'd make a final stand on dragon mount and channel saidin until self implode. Going out with a bang is better than to be robbed of my self being.

 

I think that if I where a male channeler in Wheel of Time and my only choice was to be caught by the Aes Sedai or balefire someone, then I would let myself be caught and pray that I got to die as quickly as possible after gentling. I believe in magick, not like in fantasy books off course nothing real works like that but as a Pagan I do believe in magick and I must admit that the whole concept of severing send chills down my spine and is actually hard to read about, however balefire could actually destroy reality, not just structures and people and the landscape but reality itself, and that I do not think it would be worth it to risk to escape even in that situation and especially not to do to a living person since I do not know if that would also destroy their soul. So if I was a male channeler in Wheel of Time I would definitely kill to avoid capture by Aes Sedai but not use balefire, I would not risk harming another person's soul.

 

Some of those channellers lived for decades in the Steddings

 

Yes they lived for a few decades in the Steddings, then they left and happily continued channeling until they went insane and continued the breaking.

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And balefire any ageless-face woman in the world out of the pattern.
Out of the pattern? Balefire burns a thread backwards but it does not remove it. It isn't the eternal death of the soul and someone balefired will still be reborn.

 

 

That will be sweet retribution for all the killings that they done to all my brothers.
Why would you want retribution for them doing their duty? Before they cleansing there was simply no other way to go about things then severing male channelers. In addition as Cadsuane has shown there are ways to do it so they integrate back into a normal life and live longer. Edited by Suttree
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Why would you want retribution for them doing their duty? Before they cleansing there was simply no other way to go about things then severing male channelers. In addition as Cadsuane has shown there are ways to do it so they integrate back into a normal life and live longer.

 

Well I would say that if they actually killed male channelers it would be more understandably and would be a necessity but they do not. What they do to male channelers is worse than killing them. Yes it could be argued that the way Cadsuane do it is better than death for many, but the problem is that even knowing the men can be worked with to give them a better quality of life after gentling it is not done. What is done is that the men are hauled in and often beaten on the way, then they are forced to go through a mock trial. The men are then dragged to the center of a courtyard where the most painful thing imaginable is done to them, something that all channelers are deathly afraid of, while almost everyone living in the White Tower stand around and watch them scream, and then they are either kept alive on the Tower as prisoners or just sent on their way to manage as best they can.

 

I still think that for most death is better than gentling, even with Cadsuane's method, the length of life is not everything, and severed channelers loose something extremely vital, however let us say gentling with Cadsuane's care is better, the fact that it is not done other than by that one Green is sort of a black mark for the Aes Sedai, they could have just killed the men and if they are going to gentle them they could do it in a far more kind way, well the severing itself can not be done much more kindly that will hurt like hell no matter what you do, but they could give the man dignity and do it in private, and they could do as Cadsuane do and help them recover as well as possible but they just let them suffer and die.

 

Good luck to the rest of you guys. I'm going to die in a painful way for no apparent reason.

 

Enjoy so you will just die of channeling sickness, Ryrin, Torome, me and Ozzie will be running around in the Blight tossing fireballs left and right. Yoniy and Suttree will surrender to the Aes Sedai and get gentled, Haplo and Benganza will camp out in a Stedding, Benganza tied up by his wife so he can not escape. Zion will be toss belefire at everything in sight. Morden will be at a bar trying to drink himself to the courage to go and surrender to the Aes Sedai and Mr Ares will just go insane plain and simple. We would be a fantastic bunch. :P

Edited by Hagazussa
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It is a necessity. There is no argument around that, you can not allow male channelers with the taint to cause mass chaos and destruction. By not killing them they are given a chance and it has been proven that certain methods improve the chances of living and you can adjust to the loss. I know you don't agree but I will take a chance at life over certain death every time. Siuan and Leane are proof that if one dedicates themselves to something one can survive.

 

 

As for the method I am sure there are some Reds that are far from gentle but that isn't necesarily the norm. Btw where are you getting your info about "mock trials" and the method for how it goes down? Also how do you know that no one else besides Cads tries to help them? Would like to read up on that process. Thanks.

Edited by Suttree
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It is a necessity. There is no argument around that, you can not allow male channelers with the taint to cause mass chaos and destruction.

 

It is necessary to deal with male channelers, that I agree with, but that do not mean gentling is necessary, they could be given the choice of death or gentling, I do think many would have chosen a quick death over severing.

 

By not killing them they are given a chance and it has been proven that certain methods improve the chances of living and you can adjust to the loss. I know you don't agree but I will take a chance at life over certain death every time. Siuan and Leane are proof that if one dedicates themselves to something one can survive.

 

To be fair Siuan and Leane lived with stilling only a few months before they where healed so they are not the best example. I do think gentling should be offered to male channelers as some do manage to find a reason to live strong enough to survive, at least for a while, but death should also be offered. I would have taken death over gentling any day the way it is described.

 

As for the method I am sure there are some Reds that are far from gentle but that isn't necesarily the norm.

 

Well it was the norm enough that in New Spring the Accepted discussed the Red's Butality and Elyas warn Perrin about the Reds as they might think him a channeler, now gentling can not harm him but he might be treated rather roughly until they figured out their mistake. It might not be that every male channeler brought in are beaten or mistreated but it is obviously not uncommon.

 

Btw where are you getting your info about "mock trials" and the method for how it goes down?

 

It is stated in the books again and again that male channelers by law have to be taken to the White Tower for a trial before they are gentled, now if you have a trial where the outcome is a given at the start that is a mock trial. As for how it go down. In Egwene's Accepted test she is trying to save Rand from gentling and he is in the Traitor's Court surrounded by onlookers, granted this is a vision and might not be correct, but that the men are gentled in the traitor's court is mentioned several places in the books.

 

Also how do you know that no one else besides Cads tries to help them? Would like to read up on that process. Thanks.

 

Well okey there might have been others but it is not the norm to try to help them and those who know of how long the men Cadsuane bring in live are amazed so it is obviously not the norm.

Edited by Hagazussa
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Even women who are burned out are pretty much shunted out of the tower and out of everyone's mind. They pretty much cease to exist in the mind of the other AS. Add in the aversion to male channelers, and I am sure you will agree that most AS pretty much ignore former male channelers, beside the few like Logain who manage to make a large nuisance of themselve and therefore require watching after the gentling.

 

That's not to say I agree with the person who stated that they'd hunt down AS with balefire. Two wrongs and so forth. But, reading between the lines, it is obvious being captured, gentled, then (at best) released is not a walk in the park for the men. Which is stupid, in my opinion. If the AS treated male channelers with a bit of care and decency, some men might be willing to come to them as soon as they learn to channel, rather than run off.

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I'd hold off the channeling as much as possible and be as discreet as possible about it (it is possible to spin out even heroin addiction over decades) and try and research the issue. Difficult I know but there are libraries, there are Ogier, thee are Finns, maybe even AS who could speak sense on the subject under Compulson.
If I could learn enough, I might have another possible shot - swearing fealty to the GLoD.
Or maybe rig up some sort of ter'angreal that filters taint off saidin if I have the Talent and such a thing is possible to make.

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