I think I found one bit of evidence that lends support to two old theories.

[Balefire to da face!]

Namely, "Mat as Judas" and "Mat as Aemon Reborn". I apologize if this is has been stated before, but I looked up some old threads on Mat as Aemon on DM and Mat as Judas on Theoryland(which is actually what caused me to find this bit on my reread) and couldn't find this said.

 

I think the Mat as Aemon theory is old enough and well known enough that pretty much everyone knows about it. Mat spoke the Old Tongue before even picking up the dagger, much less the Finns. It's long been speculated that he was either Aemon Reborn or a direct descendant. I would go so far as to say it's all but a given, though I am sure some would still dispute it.

 

Mat as Judas is a much more obscure theory, at least as far as I have seen, and one that I didn't ever consider all that much until recently. Since Terez is so knowledgeable on the subject, I will frame some of my post about what she has to say on the subject. Ihink what she has to say is great, even if I am not entirely sold on it.

 

Brandon's tweet about the the gun....

 

 

Now, to fire a gun that has been sitting on the mantle since the middle (chapters 30-40) of book 3. #AMoL. Guess away.

 

....sparked a long thread over on Theoryland. Towards the end Terez spoke on some of the Mat's parallels with Judas and potential avenue of betrayal. To give some context to Terez's posts, though it's worth going over and reading the last few pages yourself. Barring that, I'll give a quick list.....

 

- Mat's reaction after the Portal Stone incident in The Great Hunt. The part where he looks shaken and says, "You know I'd never tell anyone what you are, right Rand?". Or something close to that. While this is immediately understandable in the current context of the book as Mat betraying Rand's ability to channel, it could also be foreshadowing to events later in the series.

 

- Mat was hung and died in Rhuidean. One account has Judas's death as by hanging. Rand also revived him "with a kiss", which is very WoT in it's twisting of our stories as we know them with Juda's betrayal by kiss.

 

- One that is mentioned by someone else in that thread is this. It's obscure, and perhaps a coincidence, but one of the first scenes we see from a Mat PoV is the gambling streak in Tar Valon...

 

 

From the looks some of the men gave him, he was glad he had left his own dice in his pouch. Those

looks made him decide to move on. With surprise he realized that he had nearly thirty silver marks in his

purse now, but he had not won so much from any one man that they would not all be glad to see him go.

 

Except for one dark sailor with tight curls — one of the Sea Folk, someone had said, though Mat

wondered what one of the Atha’an Miere was doing so far from the sea — who followed him down the

darkened street, arguing for a chance to make good his losses. He wanted to reach the docks — thirty

silver marks was more than enough

 

Alright, with that quick catch up, Terez lays out some great possibilities for what Mat will do......

 

 

It's a foreshadowing, which means that the nature of the experiences in the Portal Stones is irrelevant. Rand's experiences all ended with him dying, and the last words he hears are "I have won again, Lews Therin." It may be that this is what he heard because he had taken the wrong paths in all those lives. It may be that it is simply the most unavoidable aspect of his fate. Mat's betrayal is foreshadowed in many ways, including the Portal Stone incident. WSB pointed out another one. I've pointed out before that there were heavy Judas parallels in the Rhuidean scene where Mat is hung (and Rand revived him with 'a kiss'), though they're 'reverse-engineered' (which is RJ's term for what he does with his parallels to myth and legend). I think that Mat's wager with Rahvin ties into it as well, though it was a sack of gold in that case. He gave the stakes to Basel Gill to watch over for him, and Gill has gone on to be an important character, so it's likely we'll hear something else about that. Mat is an Odin parallel, but he's also a Loki parallel. And Egwene's Accepted test is just another example of heavy foreshadowing masked by the non-prophetic nature of what she saw. It's the same with the Portal Stones.

 

I think that Mat's betrayal will have a few layers, but none of it involves malicious intent. Try to avoid the knee-jerk reaction, and be a little more creative in imagining what form the 'betrayal' might take.

 

And another post.

 

Right, I think that is likely to be one of the layers of the 'betrayal'. In fact, it could be a catalyst for Dark Rand, if Mat makes Rand angry and his Moridin side starts showing in response.

 

Another layer I have theorized about is the possibility that, after Rand dies, Mat will blow the Horn and either 1) 'betray' the fact that Rand is dead, or 2) 'betray' the fact that he has already been resurrected. I think the second is more likely because it is also a parallel to the empty tomb. In the case of the first, he might do that just based on the colors; after the Portal Stone incident, he promised he would never tell anyone about Rand. In that case, it was probably in reference to the fact that Rand could channel, which was still a secret at the time. So Mat could unwittingly betray Rand by blabbing his mouth about something he shouldn't have mentioned. It would be fitting for his character.

 

Another possible layer might have to do with the silver medallion, which is all tied up in the reverse-engineered Judas parallel at Rhuidean. Gawyn is also a Loki parallel, and a Mordred parallel, and he still seems slated for a betrayal. He would no doubt find a good use for a proper copy of Mat's medallion, which would be fitting, since they share a Loki parallel. There might be some other way to tie Gawyn up with Judas, but I think Judas is mostly Mat because I think Mat and Perrin carry the bulk of the disciple parallels. I think Perrin will deny Rand three times. Probably in the context of knowing Rand is alive; Perrin keeps the secret and Mat betrays it. Anyway, this is definitely a more indirect thing, unless Mat gives Gawyn his own medallion, which seems unlikely.

 

 

Anyway, now that we're all caught up on both theories, here's my bit of evidence in favor of both. Terez herself is asked if Mat as Judas parallels go back any farther then The Great Hunt and she says "nothing blatant". I believe I have found something blatant(if you know where to look) all the way back before the boys ever left Emond's Field in tEotW. In Moiraine's SuperFunTime Story hour involving Manetheran.

 

Hopefully we all know this great tale well enough so that I only have to quote the part immediately relevant for everyone to get the jist.....

 

 

 

The Eye of the World

Chpt. 9 Tellings of the Wheel

Pg 132 paperback

 

"For nearly two centuries the Trolloc Wars had ravaged the length and breadth of the world, and wherever battles

raged, the Red Eagle banner of Manetheren was in the forefront. The men of Manetheren were a thorn to the Dark

One's foot and a bramble to his hand. Sing of Manetheren, that would never bend knee to the Shadow. Sing of

Manetheren, the sword that could not be broken.

 

"They were far away, the men of Manetheren, on the Field of Bekkar, called the Field of Blood, when news came that a

Trolloc army was moving against their home. Too far to do else but wait to hear of their land's death, for the forces of

the Dark One meant to make an end of them. Kill the mighty oak by hacking away its roots. Too far to do else but

mourn. But they were the men of the Mountain Home.

 

So Aemon had his army away on the Field of Blood, leaving his homeland open to Trolloc invasion. If Mat is Aemon Reborn, this seems like a not so subtle allusion to the Field tied to the death of Judas. There are actually two accounts of Judas's death, one from Matthew and one from Acts.

 

In both accounts Judas betrays Jesus and gets his silver. But Matthew presents him as a repentant figure. He throws down the blood money, and hangs himself from the guilt. Priests then take the blood money and buy a potters field to bury strangers in.

 

In Acts we have a much less repentant Judas meeting a much more ignoble end. Judas himself purchased a field with his blood money. While on that field, Judas is then said to have simply fell forward, bursting open with his bowels spilling out.

 

The part that is relevant to WoT is, of course, that both of these fields in question are said to be called the Field of Blood(one presumably because it was bought with blood money, the other more directly because Judas's own blood spilled out onto it).

 

 

Matthew 27

 

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

⁴Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

⁵And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

⁶And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

⁷And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

⁸Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

 

Acts 1

 

¹⁶Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

¹⁷For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

¹⁸Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

¹⁹And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

 

 

 

The interesting part is that if you read the phrasing Moiraine uses, it has a structure that is very reminiscent of certain aspects of both Matthew and Acts.

 

Matthew says; "Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood,"

 

Acts says: "that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceidama, that is to say, The field of blood.

 

Moiraine says; "the men of Manetheren, on the Field of Bekkar, called the Field of Blood,"

 

Jordan's phrasing encompasses both. Acts repetition of giving a "proper" name for said field, but then calling it the field of blood. Matthew has the distinctive "called the field of blood" which explains why Jordan used the wording which is distinctive and catches on the tongue hinting at a deeper meaning. It varies by translation, but most I have seen renders the wording distinctive and is reminiscent of Jordan's interesting choice of wording and structure.

 

 

So there you have it, a clue that both supports Mat as Aemon Reborn and a Judas parallel because this allusion ties Judas to Aemon to Mat back to Judas.

 

 

It's also worth noting that in the long run this "betrayal" perhaps mattered little. As the army forced marched back in time to defend the Tarendrelle against the Trolloc hordes. It is only in the loosest sense that Aemon "betrayed" anyone. Though perhaps being far from home fighting on "The Field of Blood" could be said to have betrayed Maneteran to the Trolloc hordes as an tempting target to finally eliminate the long standing thorn in their side. This would be consistent with a Mat betrayal that is only loosely a betrayal. Perhaps one that is not even a negative at all.

 

Judas himself is a figure that has long been discussed in a light which is more sympathetic then his current synonymous standing with "betrayer" leads many to believe. Matthew himself sees him as repentant. John hints that Judas may have been influenced by the devil. And, of course, there is the fact that Judas "betrayed" Jesus into the fate which Jesus himself wished(in most accounts) and was, after all, pretty much the whole point.

 

I like some of Terez's theories on how Mat will betray Rand. And this has little support in the universe, but it's worth pointing out that with Rand slated to die not once, but twice in this book it would be fitting with Judas himself if Mat "helped" Rand to fulfill his prophesied death. While not tied to Mat in any way, we have already seen this exact wording for how Rand will die. Alivia will help him die. Which suggests her part in his death will....well...."help" in some way. Like I said, it's not tied to Mat in anyway, but it's worth noting the very concept of helping Rand die has been mentioned. It's something that needs to happen at least once from one character. Perhaps Mat will "help" in another way.

[Jak o' the Shadows]

If Mat betrays Rand and turns 'evil'..I'm burning the entire series.

[Balefire to da face!]

If Mat betrays Rand and turns 'evil'..I'm burning the entire series.

 

Ha!

 

That seems to be everyone's reaction when they first hear the theory.

 

As Terez says, if it does ultimately prove true(and I think the foreshadowing removes much doubt that's where Jordan was aiming) it will likely be like the Sword in the Stone parallel. Very different from what we generally think of as a Judas betrayal.

 

I especially like her idea on Mat blowing the horn to either betray that Rand is or is not dead. That would be a great, believable way for Mat to "betray" Rand. Though on the more negative side, there is plenty of potential for even a well meaning Mat to betray Rand in some way with his dealings with the Seanchan.

[BFG]

Much as I agree with Jak o the Shadows sentiment - I wonder if how often it's mentioned that Mat always keeps his promises counts as foreshadowing?

[muddasssir]

it was a long post and that is about all the positive things I can say about this post

[Morden]

dunno I see more chance Perrin betraying Rand than Mat. Especially if anything happened to Faile...

 

Perrin and Gawyn both have things about them that make them incredibly easy for the Dark One to corrupt. Gawyn is arrogant and egotistical with a big jealous streak, and Perrin would do anything if he thought it would get Faile back, should Slayer take her for instance...

[herid]

@Balefire to da face! Thanks for sharing your theory. The Mat Judas parallels sound quite interesting. I particularly like the hanging from ta tree and being revived by a kiss part.

The part about Mat being Aemon reborn is much more iffy however. I never cared about the multitude of theories of this person being that person reborn. Outside of Rand being LTT reborn such things are not needed by the story and I don't believe any of them will have any plot significance.

As such this is mostly for the fans to speculate about for fun IMO. I would consider it more likely that Mat is a descendant of Aemon, rather than Aemon reborn, for why would reborn souls respect hereditary lines? But even if he is Aemon, the connection between the Field of Blood in the story that Moiraine tells and the one is the bible looks highly dubious to me. The field of Bekkar doesn't seem to have any symbolic significance. It's just a departure point for Manetheren troops. And Aemon certainly didn't betray anybody - I see no Judas parallels in him. So even if Mat is Aemon reborn this would be a really strange place to stick a reference to the Mat - Judas parallel IMO.

[Balefire to da face!]

@Balefire to da face! Thanks for sharing your theory. The Mat Judas parallels sound quite interesting. I particularly like the hanging from the tree and being revived by a kiss part.

The part about Mat being Aemon reborn is much more iffy however. I never cared about the multitude of theories of this person being that person reborn. Outside of Rand being LTT reborn such things are not needed by the story and I don't believe any of them will have any plot significance.

As such this is mostly for the fans to speculate about for fun IMO. I would consider it more likely that Mat is a descendant of Aemon, rather than Aemon reborn, for why would reborn souls respect hereditary lines? But even if he is Aemon, the connection between the Field of Blood in the story that Moiraine tells and the one is the bible looks highly dubious to me. The field of Bekkar doesn't seem to have any symbolic significance. It's just a departure point for Manetheren troops. And Aemon certainly didn't betray anybody. I see no Judas parallels in him.

 

Well, as our parallels have shown in the past, there need be only the loosest connections between the reality in series and the reality of our own historical parallel. Hence the myth becoming legend. I am more suggesting it as a very well hidden clue from Jordan then an actual guide of foreshadowing to tell us what may happen in the series.

 

The reason I am almost positive this was deliberate on Jordan's part is because after studying the Bible a bit, as I am sure Jordan did, it is hard to see how he could write that scene without realizing the connection he was making. Field of Blood is a pretty distinctive name, and anyone who has studied the Judas story in any kind of meaningful way would recognize it's significance. It is hard to see Jordan adding that otherwise unnecessary reference unless it meant something.

 

Of course, since Jordan is no longer with us, short of tidbits from the Encyclopedia it will be hard to know for sure. Though if it does turn out that Mat displays clear signs of Judas parallel in aMoL, it certainly adds weight to the theory as a whole. And makes it even harder to see how someone who was digging into the Judas character to mine plot points could miss the connection between what he had written and a term so closely tied to Judas.

[Carnacarn]

If Mat betrays Rand and turns 'evil'..I'm burning the entire series.

 

People always seem to ignore the fact that the act of 'betrayal' Judas committed allowed Jesus to save others. The act of betrayal, while inherently evil, allowed good to happen. So if Mat does 'betray' Rand, it will be an emotional event, but for the best. Also, Jesus came back from the dead three days later, which has been hinted that it will occur with Rand, probably with Nyn healing death.

 

I will accept Mat's betrayal if it does occur but it will hurt most because it was Mat and not anyone else who did it. Mat is my second favorite character after Rand.

[TLHansum]

From what i understood, both accounts in Matthew and Acts are the same, just from different perspectives. In Matthew, the pharisees couldn't take Judas's gold because it was blood money, so they bought a field in Judas's name (which they COULD keep... legalism, heh). If you look at it this way, both books agree.

 

Then Judas hung himself on the field, and when they cut him down he fell 'headlong' and his guts spilt out everywhere. So, same event, different perspectives.

 

No contradiction here, move along, move along :)

[Balefire to da face!]

From what i understood, both accounts in Matthew and Acts are the same, just from different perspectives. In Matthew, the pharisees couldn't take Judas's gold because it was blood money, so they bought a field in Judas's name (which they COULD keep... legalism, heh). If you look at it this way, both books agree.

 

Then Judas hung himself on the field, and when they cut him down he fell 'headlong' and his guts spilt out everywhere. So, same event, different perspectives.

 

No contradiction here, move along, move along :)

 

Probably not the best place to discuss Biblical inerrentism. It has little bearing as pertains to the interaction with Wot, so I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

[FarShainMael]

In view of Mik's theory about Demandred being at least heavily involved with the Sea Folk

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/75864-miks-warp-demandred-isclick-to-find-out/

 

I find that bit about the Sea Folk man that Mat encounters with his thirty silver marks rather interesting. Requoting:

 

From the looks some of the men gave him, he was glad he had left his own dice in his pouch. Those looks made him decide to move on. With surprise he realized that he had nearly thirty silver marks in his purse now, but he had not won so much from any one man that they would not all be glad to see him go.

 

Except for one dark sailor with tight curls — one of the Sea Folk, someone had said, though Mat wondered what one of the Atha’an Miere was doing so far from the sea — who followed him down the darkened street, arguing for a chance to make good his losses. He wanted to reach the docks — thirty silver marks was more than enough.

 

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

[Suttree]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

[Apple Scruff]

If Mat betrays Rand and turns 'evil'..I'm burning the entire series.

 

People always seem to ignore the fact that the act of 'betrayal' Judas committed allowed Jesus to save others. The act of betrayal, while inherently evil, allowed good to happen. So if Mat does 'betray' Rand, it will be an emotional event, but for the best. Also, Jesus came back from the dead three days later, which has been hinted that it will occur with Rand, probably with Nyn healing death.

 

I will accept Mat's betrayal if it does occur but it will hurt most because it was Mat and not anyone else who did it. Mat is my second favorite character after Rand.

 

Agreed. Judas betrayal of Jesus was a part of the path to redemption for the world. Jesus's death and subsequent resurrection were necessary for the salvation of the world and Judas, perhaps unwittingly, becomes an intricate part of God's plan through his betrayal by creating the circumstances needed for it to come to pass.

[herid]

In view of Mik's theory about Demandred being at least heavily involved with the Sea Folk

 

http://www.dragonmou...ck-to-find-out/

 

I find that bit about the Sea Folk man that Mat encounters with his thirty silver marks rather interesting. Requoting:

 

From the looks some of the men gave him, he was glad he had left his own dice in his pouch. Those looks made him decide to move on. With surprise he realized that he had nearly thirty silver marks in his purse now, but he had not won so much from any one man that they would not all be glad to see him go.

 

Except for one dark sailor with tight curls — one of the Sea Folk, someone had said, though Mat wondered what one of the Atha’an Miere was doing so far from the sea — who followed him down the darkened street, arguing for a chance to make good his losses. He wanted to reach the docks — thirty silver marks was more than enough.

 

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

I think you mistook the threads there. You probably wanted this one. sorry, just kidding.

 

@Balefire to da face! I forgot to ask. Why did you mention the quote by BS about a gun from TDR ch 30-40 finally firing? This is not related to your theories, is it? or am I missing something?

That comment is certainly interesting but it likely refers to one of Egwene's dreams in ch 37 or perhaps the Aiel prophecy in ch 34.

[muddasssir]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

As soon as i read Far sorry man i nevr could get th hang of your name my abject apologies but while I was reading that post I said sutt is going to refute it and there it is

[Balefire to da face!]

In view of Mik's theory about Demandred being at least heavily involved with the Sea Folk

 

http://www.dragonmou...ck-to-find-out/

 

I find that bit about the Sea Folk man that Mat encounters with his thirty silver marks rather interesting. Requoting:

 

From the looks some of the men gave him, he was glad he had left his own dice in his pouch. Those looks made him decide to move on. With surprise he realized that he had nearly thirty silver marks in his purse now, but he had not won so much from any one man that they would not all be glad to see him go.

 

Except for one dark sailor with tight curls — one of the Sea Folk, someone had said, though Mat wondered what one of the Atha’an Miere was doing so far from the sea — who followed him down the darkened street, arguing for a chance to make good his losses. He wanted to reach the docks — thirty silver marks was more than enough.

 

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

I think you mistook the threads there. You probably wanted this one. sorry, just kidding.

 

@Balefire to da face! I forgot to ask. Why did you mention the quote by BS about a gun from TDR ch 30-40 finally firing? This is not related to your theories, is it? or am I missing something?

That comment is certainly interesting but it likely refers to one of Egwene's dreams in ch 37 or perhaps the Aiel prophecy in ch 34.

 

That comment by Brandon sparked a 22 page thread on Theoryland discussing what the "gun" could be. It was a long, winding discussion which ranged all over the place. On the last couple of pages, Terez spoke about her theory(s) of Mat's parallels to Judas and how that would play a part in aMoL. I had meant to add a link to the thread when I mentioned this in the my opening post, but forgot because by the end my thread had taken quite a bit of time. Including the link may have made things more clear.

 

Which is all just a roundabout way of saying that most of the credit, if this turns out to be true, goes to Terez. I wanted to make sure to give her the credit(since I think she is the first person I have seen fully fleshing out these clues and their implications), and make it clear I was just adding my own little, if(imho) convincing, bit of corroborating evidence.

 

In short, I don't think it had anything to do directly with "the gun"....I am just a big mouth completionist who likes the sound of my keyboard clicking

[kght22]

while i don't think that mat will betray rand myself, i think that people here should keep in mind that mat betraying rand, and turning to the shadow, could easily be two separate things. if mat does somehow betray rand, that does not mean that he has turned to the shadow. but as i said i don't think either betrayal is very likely to happen. although if it does it might be that much more interesting.

[FarShainMael]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

As soon as i read Far sorry man i nevr could get th hang of your name my abject apologies but while I was reading that post I said sutt is going to refute it and there it is

 

No problems, muddasssir, most people just call me FSM if they're in a rush!

 

But I should point out that Suttree has not in fact refuted it. He has merely stated a different opinion (which, Sutt, you are entirely entitled to do). His opinion may indeed turn out to be valid. We'll soon know.. But to refute something you need to supply evidence, because it means to prove somebody or something wrong:

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/refute

 

Sorry about that, but it's one of those problems with precision that makes me

 

Anyway, it wasn't clear whether you agreed with him or not..

 

Oh, and @herid:

[FarShainMael]

while i don't think that mat will betray rand myself, i think that people here should keep in mind that mat betraying rand, and turning to the shadow, could easily be two separate things. if mat does somehow betray rand, that does not mean that he has turned to the shadow. but as i said i don't think either betrayal is very likely to happen. although if it does it might be that much more interesting.

 

I think it's getting a bit late in the day, plotwise, for Mat to turn to the Shadow. It might also be a bit late for a betrayal; that would be a major event, nearly up there with Rand preparing to balefire the entire world. It would simply not get the treatment it needs at this late stage.

[TootThatHorn]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

As soon as i read Far sorry man i nevr could get th hang of your name my abject apologies but while I was reading that post I said sutt is going to refute it and there it is

 

No problems, muddasssir, most people just call me FSM if they're in a rush!

 

But I should point out that Suttree has not in fact refuted it. He has merely stated a different opinion (which, Sutt, you are entirely entitled to do). His opinion may indeed turn out to be valid. We'll soon know.. But to refute something you need to supply evidence, because it means to prove somebody or something wrong:

 

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/refute

 

Sorry about that, but it's one of those problems with precision that makes me

 

Anyway, it wasn't clear whether you agreed with him or not..

 

Oh, and @herid:

 

To be fair though this is like a flying spaghetti monster thing; I can put out this hypothesis because there is no evidence to dispute it. More than likely it was just one of the many ways to show that the world is getting towards upheaval and people are being found in areas where you wouldn't normally expect them to be. Sea Folk guy in TV? Wouldn't normally happen unless the pattern was putting people in places they otherwise wouldn't be due to the ever changing atmosphere of the Dragon rising and the LB coming.

[muddasssir]

@FSM Sorry, i have this problem that I usually do not elaborate what I am saying there was a quote from RJ that said. Demandred's alter ego did not have on screen time until a much later book. If that sailor was Demandred it will refute that quote. I am sorry that I am providing this quote from memory only may be Sutt or someone else will be kind enough to point out.

[FarShainMael]

@FSM Sorry, i have this problem that I usually do not elaborate what I am saying there was a quote from RJ that said. Demandred's alter ego did not have on screen time until a much later book. If that sailor was Demandred it will refute that quote. I am sorry that I am providing this quote from memory only may be Sutt or someone else will be kind enough to point out.

 

You're absolutely right; and yes, that does refute it. Drat!

 

At least, it establishes that wasn't Demandred himself. I wonder if there's stil a connection, though.

[Suttree]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

As soon as i read Far sorry man i nevr could get th hang of your name my abject apologies but while I was reading that post I said sutt is going to refute it and there it is

 

No problems, muddasssir, most people just call me FSM if they're in a rush!

 

But I should point out that Suttree has not in fact refuted it. He has merely stated a different opinion (which, Sutt, you are entirely entitled to do). His opinion may indeed turn out to be valid. We'll soon know.. But to refute something you need to supply evidence, because it means to prove somebody or something wrong:

 

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/refute

 

Sorry about that, but it's one of those problems with precision that makes me

 

Anyway, it wasn't clear whether you agreed with him or not..

 

Oh, and @herid:

 

It has been refuted by RJ saying he hadn't appeared on screen.

[FarShainMael]

Has Mat just met Demandred, I wonder?

 

No and I would put much more than 30 silver on that answer.

As soon as i read Far sorry man i nevr could get th hang of your name my abject apologies but while I was reading that post I said sutt is going to refute it and there it is

 

No problems, muddasssir, most people just call me FSM if they're in a rush!

 

But I should point out that Suttree has not in fact refuted it. He has merely stated a different opinion (which, Sutt, you are entirely entitled to do). His opinion may indeed turn out to be valid. We'll soon know.. But to refute something you need to supply evidence, because it means to prove somebody or something wrong:

 

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/refute

 

Sorry about that, but it's one of those problems with precision that makes me

 

Anyway, it wasn't clear whether you agreed with him or not..

 

Oh, and @herid:

 

To be fair though this is like a flying spaghetti monster thing; I can put out this hypothesis because there is no evidence to dispute it. More than likely it was just one of the many ways to show that the world is getting towards upheaval and people are being found in areas where you wouldn't normally expect them to be. Sea Folk guy in TV? Wouldn't normally happen unless the pattern was putting people in places they otherwise wouldn't be due to the ever changing atmosphere of the Dragon rising and the LB coming.

 

Ah yes - what I would call 'Russell's teapot'. Which has in common with Occam's Razor that it's a useful technique but not a law of nature.

 

Oh, and by the way:

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis

 

(puts away )

 

That aside, yes the Pattern might be putting people in strange places, but it was not (yet) bodily picking them up and moving them, like the rooms in the White Tower that shifted around or the Blighted area that Perrin found (ToM4). There would have to be a reasonably sensible chain of events leading to him being present.

 

And again, I find the fact that he turns up in conjunction with those 30 marks as being very interesting.