Dark Prophecy from ToM

[Treebeard]

can you explain why

[Suttree]

can you explain why

 

13 towers are the forsaken. The ones that crash and fall represent ones killed. The rest grow taller and Ishys almost drops then grows tallest of all. If you do a search you can find a number of topics about it.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

can you explain why

 

13 towers are the forsaken. The ones that crash and fall represent ones killed. The rest grow taller and Ishys almost drops then grows tallest of all. If you do a search you can find a number of topics about it.

Those are the towers from Egwene's dream u are refering to, which were never specificaly named. That is a good theory but he was looking for proof or a confirmation from the author(s). Im not saying that isnt right, just that its not confirmed those are the 'towers of midnight' that this prophecy refers to... Until proven otherwise there are several things they could stand for in regards to the 'broken wolf' prophecy. Again im not saying your theory is wrong (its probably right, as i stated the same theory above) just that it was not confirmed and likely wont be till aMoL comes out.

[Treebeard]

can you explain why

 

13 towers are the forsaken. The ones that crash and fall represent ones killed. The rest grow taller and Ishys almost drops then grows tallest of all. If you do a search you can find a number of topics about it.

 

yes of course i know about these towers that you speak of but Midnight Towers stand out at least out in two places first in the prologue then in the dictionary. no sorry for me Midnight Towers must be synonym to the Seanchan

[snooze1128]

I feel like neither the Seanchan, nor the Forsaken, played a major role in the Towers of Midnight. While I believe it's more likely that it's the Forsaken who are being symbolized as towers, neither choice is obvious to me.

[Suttree]

can you explain why

 

13 towers are the forsaken. The ones that crash and fall represent ones killed. The rest grow taller and Ishys almost drops then grows tallest of all. If you do a search you can find a number of topics about it.

 

yes of course i know about these towers that you speak of but Midnight Towers stand out at least out in two places first in the prologue then in the dictionary. no sorry for me Midnight Towers must be synonym to the Seanchan

 

Well yes the Towers of Midnight are a fortress like complex in Seanchan. It is where the creator of the a'dam was held after she was taken. There are thirteen towers in the complex which matches this being book #13. Having said that the Forsaken play a prominent role in this book while the fortress assuredly does not.

[snooze1128]

There are thirteen towers in the complex which matches this being book #13. Having said that the Forsaken play a prominent role in this book while the fortress assuredly does not.

 

I dunno...Here's what we know about the Forsaken in the Towers of Midnight:

• Moridin gives Graendal a dreamspike, tells her to kill Perrin.
  
• Graendal charges Slayer with dreamspiking Perrin's camp.
  
• Shadar Han is very unhappy with Grendal for causing the deaths of 3 Forsaken.
  
• Lanfear is likely trapped.
  
• Egewne turns Mesaana into a vegetable
  

That's about it, as far as I can recall. I certainly wouldn't say the Forsaken play a major role in this ToM.

[Suttree]

There are thirteen towers in the complex which matches this being book #13. Having said that the Forsaken play a prominent role in this book while the fortress assuredly does not.

 

I dunno...Here's what we know about the Forsaken in the Towers of Midnight:

• Moridin gives Graendal a dreamspike, tells her to kill Perrin.
  
• Graendal charges Slayer with dreamspiking Perrin's camp.
  
• Shadar Han is very unhappy with Grendal for causing the deaths of 3 Forsaken.
  
• Lanfear is likely trapped.
  
• Egewne turns Mesaana into a vegetable
  

That's about it, as far as I can recall. I certainly wouldn't say the Forsaken play a major role in this ToM.

 

and compare that to the role the seanchan fortress plays. Let's go with relatively prominent then?

[tje]

I'm not sure that the title being towers of midnight is all that important or a major factor in the next book. I think I remember reading a Brandon quote along the lines that the title came from a variance of his wanting to name the book after the major towers in this book, (white tower, black tower) just my two cents.

[Treebeard]

this makes me reminiscent about he age long discussions about the second book in Lord of the Ring trilogy about witch towers Tolkien intended the title to point at. so a advise to all fantasy writers if you have a story witch have more than one tower don't make a title that contains the word Towers.

 

with that said i am fully aware that the forsaken plays a big role in the book but i would be surprised to know that BS / RJ introduced a place known by the name of Towers of Midnight set the tiltel as such and then mean another thing.

[thisguy]

The broken wolf may be Rand but I'm not convinced. Yes, even the wolves Perrin speaks to talk about him by their name for him.

 

Perrin could also be the broken wolf as he's had the inner battle between the blacksmith and wolf (represented by hammer and axe), so it would make sense if the prophecy mentions him as both the fallen blacksmith and the broken wolf.

 

I think it's slayer. Death has known him probably has something to do with how he went to the dark side and I think he's a wolf brother who has been twisted - or broken.

[Suttree]

please delete

[Entreri]

Broken Wolf = Rand and not Perrin IMO.

 

This is my latest theory:

 

The Forsaken are setting up a trap for him and it appears that Lanfear gets him and Alivia helps him die...if the Dark Prophicies are also true:

 

"The ancient war, she yet fights. Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still."

 

This likely happens in TAR or TAR related, otherwise in a face-to-face confrontation, Lanfear is completely toast against LTT, even at her full Power (ok, Lanfear can take Rand out if it is by complete surprise). Lanfear has always boasted about her abilities in TAR and getting into peoples Dreams regardless of what they do.

 

This possibly means that the duo of Moraine and Nyaneve finishes Lanfear(maybe Moghidiein as well) after rescuing Rand. Yes, this is definitely a stretch.

 

Another confirmation that the Forsaken will toast him (Midnight Towers also means the Forsaken...one would think the duo of Ishamael and Lanfear came up with this plan):

 

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself"

 

Only Rand's death will shake men's very will itself. So I don't think this is referring to Perrin. Both Rand and Perrin dying would be a catastrophic/fatal blow to the Light, even if/when Rand is resurrected.

[thisguy]

It's a good point that you bring up about only Rand's death would shake men's very will itself. BUT, does it say all men? If Perrin's, Mat's, Lan's or many other characters in charge of a large group of people were to die then the will of many people would be shaken.

[Lisa Campbell]

Maybe it was only so that the relevance of the dark prophecy containing "Towers of Midnight" could be explained here (and in interviews of course) rather than wasting wordage in book? The best way I can think of if you are limited IMHO. Also IMO, if RJ hadn't died, there would have been more than 3 books to end the story and it would have been explained in the text but as I said, BS was limited by a deadline of not only time, but getting it done and dusted.

[Terez]

The Towers of Midnight in Seanchan were apparently built by the invaders. Thirteen fortresses of black stone. The Seanchan empire has many symbols, but the Towers of Midnight were clearly inspired by the Forsaken in the first place (whether or not they were built by the invaders), so it's nearly impossible to separate them here. Ishamael influenced Hawkwing at the time the two fleets were sent to conquer Shara and Seanchan. One failed; one succeeded. The one that succeeded also happened to introduce corrupted prophecies to the Seanchan continent; the KC existed in its original form there before Luthair landed because it was compiled during the Breaking. Another Seanchan symbol—probably the dominant one—is the raven, also tied to the Shadow. The Tower of Ravens is 'broken', and that was prophesied too. The Aes Sedai on Seanchan were probably heavily infested with Darkfriends, and the Armies of the Night; things seem to have been much more chaotic there than they were on the Randland continent.

[HiddenInLight]

I actually have a twist on some of the thoeries that I have seen in this thread. I think that it is referring to perrin. I think the bit about The Fallen Blacksmith's pride, refers to Faille, and is a prediction of her death. Perrin thinks to himself a lot during the books that if Faille were to die he would lose himself, or he wouldn't know what he would do, ect. I think when Faille dies, The Blacksmith, becomes broken. Hense becoming the Broken Wolf. Now, I think that in his desperation, thinking that all hope is lost, Perrin, now the Broken Wolf, turns to the Towers of Midnight, a reference to the Seanchan, for help. They consume him, or take him in, turning him to their side. It makes sense, as Perrin has already shpwn that he will cooperate and ally himself with the Seanchan in order to fulfill his goals, AND has a high ranking Seanchan General now one ovf the Blood, who holds much respect for perran as a result of this temporary alliance. This then leads to an alliance between Rand and the Seanchan, fulfilling the truth told to rand when he went through the doorway to get his questions answered, considering that he would now have ties to the Empire through both Perrin, and his jump to the Seanchan, and Matt being married to their Empress. Thus fulfilling the Seanchan prophecy of Rand submitting to the Crystal throne, and also leads to him following the path laid out in the glimpse of the future given to Aviehenda (sp?) In the last book. The more you think about that path, everything falls into place, and makes a lot of sense.

[snooze1128]

I actually have a twist on some of the thoeries that I have seen in this thread. I think that it is referring to perrin. I think the bit about The Fallen Blacksmith's pride, refers to Faille, and is a prediction of her death.

 

I thought this was really intriguing, as I had yet to consider that the prophecy is referring to Faile, rather than Perrin...So I looked up & studied the prophecy again, and grammatically speaking I don't think your theory makes sense, unfortunately:

"the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come..."

I'm certainly not an English major, but here's my take on the quote:

Some sort of "pride" belongs to the Fallen Blacksmith, so while 'pride' may indeed be referring to Faile, it is belonging to a blacksmith that has already fallen.

So I'm thinking that Perrin dies, and then at some point after his death, his 'pride' sees its 'last days." I'm thinking the pride of the Fallen Blacksmith is referring either to Faile or the wolves. I know that groups of wolves are generally called packs, not prides (lion groups are known as prides), but it's an interesting twist, i think.

 

I do have a question for everyone regarding the interpretation of other parts of the prophecy: "Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still." My interpretation: "Lanfear seeks Rand, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still." What the heck? We know there's a good chance she's seeking him (we see this in the ToM epilogue, as she's seemingly reaching out to him--quick side note and tangent, I really hope this doesn't play out like Harry Potter, where Voldermort/Moridin try to draw the good guy out by intentionally manipulating his dreams). The prophecy makes me think that Rand somehow sacrifices himself for the well-being of Lanfear...Whether or not he's does so intentionally, I have no idea, but I hope so!

[thisguy]

Just realized that Faile may be the fallen blacksmith's pride. Assuming the fallen blacksmith is Perrin, she's his pride. Maybe Faile is going to die.

[Terez]

Faile can't die, because Perrin needs her to be king, and we know he's going to be king.

[thisguy]

Faile can't die, because Perrin needs her to be king, and we know he's going to be king.

Why does Perrin need her to be king?

[shortkut]

She's heir to the throne... After her father

[thisguy]

She's heir to the throne... After her father

Sure, but he can still be king of a new Manetheren, he doesn't need to be king of an established kingdom.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

Faile can't die, because Perrin needs her to be king, and we know he's going to be king.

Why does Perrin need her to be king?

I dont have the book in front of me, but i believe he needs Faile to be king of saldaea because his marriage to her makes him eligible. And it has to be Saldaea because Min saw the broken crown around Perrin. Pretty sure she did at least, guess i couldve imagined it

[TristanWebb]

I still say with the information we currently have Lan is the only candidate. Anyone else and you are saying 'if s/he does this then it could be him/her/". Lan is the only one who fits until more information is given. I would rather it be Ituralde because Lan deserves to live happily ever after, but Death doesn't know him and he ain't broken at all.