Do you hate Perrin?

[Guest TigerToe]

I have a question about perrin...

 

how BIG is he?? -when he rescues Gaul doesnt the aiel comment about it would take 3 Aiel(and aiel are BIG) to pull the cage up...this is something perrin does by himself...he would have to be somekind of NFL/POWER lifting superheavyweight MuTAnT(like a 3oo+lb teddybear!)

 

anyhooo this aint a real problem for me, i think his gift/power/talent is one of the coolest..i love the character, i think GUYS dig the blacksmith part..its an honest workingmans skill and you get to make stuff.

[Jedimuppet]

I have a question about perrin...

 

how BIG is he?? -when he rescues Gaul doesnt the aiel comment about it would take 3 Aiel(and aiel are BIG) to pull the cage up...this is something perrin does by himself...he would have to be somekind of NFL/POWER lifting superheavyweight MuTAnT(like a 3oo+lb teddybear!)

 

anyhooo this aint a real problem for me' date=' i think his gift/power/talent is one of the coolest..i love the character, i think GUYS dig the blacksmith part..its an honest workingmans skill and you get to make stuff.[/quote']

 

The blacksmith part is why he's so strong. Well, he's built to be a blacksmith naturally, and doing it toughened him up. Those weapons (axe or hammer) are frigging heavy....

J

[Guest TigerToe]

I hate to burst a long standing(and treasured) fantsy misconception, but most blacksmiths werent the he-men of old, the hammers were relatively light (dont get me wrong they were as strong as most laborers) because the HEAT does most of the work..but im not even disputing that...

 

I used to be an AD&D freak and i hated the strength system because my friend made an elf with exceptional strength.... granted i dont know much about elves but a 130lb (heavy for an elf) who can lift nearly 400lbs is absurd..just the idea that this little dude can heave more weight than my strapping barbarian warrior was ludacris as he was less than half his size. So i researched and made a strength to bodymass chart..which didnt really catch on (nobody wanted to play a "lithe" 220lb elf ranger)

 

But from the discription of perrin freeing gaul im guessing perrin is a littlest-titan sized man or Brick outHOUSE of a man...5ft high and 4ft wide....

 

the eyes are cool...the super sniffer is cool and metal working is cool..

[fixedMind]

no

[girl-in-the-army]

Waste of time. Mat's better. Dumbledore's dead. End of story.

I disagree

dumbledoor is not dead too many inconsistancies with his death, didne die at alkl right for that curse....

How can you say Mat or Perrin is better both have issues Oh my precious wife, oh boo hoo, oh damn another battle ug i hate battles, oh the aiel have my wife and i can talk to wolves, oh woe is me, oh man i can speak the old toung and have a bunch of dead guys memories in my head woe is me...however both are cool on really high cool points tables....each have their dreary issues and each has really cool abilities.....and each has a manipulative wife,,, equal footing... :D

[goldeneys]

Tiger, I totally agree with you.

[Scylvendi]

I don't hate perrin, I don't like him either. I used to like him, until he met Faile. I think he would be more interesting if Faile died or went away or something like that. But, if she'll continue to influence him, I think both would be better of dead.

[dawntreader3]

I think Perrin is cool. His problem is Faile. Period. RJ has made her almost as bad as Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve.

 

She should get killed or fall for a different guy, betraying Perrin so that Perrin can move on with a much better woman.

 

and Off topic here...but if Rand bites the big one at Tarmon Gaidon, I will HATE this series forever. I'll say it was all good (pretty much) up until then.

 

But I know I won't recommend it to others after that.

 

As it is, with the way the women are written in the later books especially I find it hard to recommend.

[SinisterDeath]

how BIG is he?? -when he rescues Gaul doesnt the aiel comment about it would take 3 Aiel(and aiel are BIG)

 

I thought it toke 3 white cloaks to lift gaul up into the cage? Not that it would take 3 aiel to lift him... I think it would be more like 2... maybe even 1 depending on the poley system...

And anyways, It probalby toke 2 white cloaks to get gaul in that cage, and one to heave it up the way, and one of the white cloaks to tie it off..

 

I mean, after all gaul is what 6'2? 6'-5" max? And thats about 200lbs Max for his hieght/physical fitness? It would probably take 2 white cloaks to lift that cage up, probably due to there armor, to. but figuring at least one person being able to lift 100lbs.. And perrin is a little bit stronger then those said white cloaks.. So, with the pulley system it was probalby the equiovlent of lifting 150 lbs... and if faile at least 100 lbs.. he should have no problems lifting another 100 :P

[Great Lord of the Dark]

I hate Perrin. He's a wuss

[CUBAREY]

To SinisterDeath:

 

Its unclear from the book who hoisted Gaul into the cage. It could have been Whitecloaks or just as likely puny villagers.

 

Also-- Perrin 6.2-6.5 2oo pounds, unlikely. He is a blacksmith think middle linebacker 6.2-6.5, 250-260 all muscle.

[Great Lord of the Dark]

i wouldn't say that big, but really close. Think 6'3, with the muscles of a body builder but softened up over years of long and hard work. And also bigger. and not with steriods. <-  ??? that would be cool though

[RobertAlexWillis]

Jordan says Perrin is 6'1" to 6'2", 235-240 lbs.

 

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.7_generalities/2.7.2_height.html

[trakand_01]

Wow i never saw him as that tall... I always imagined the height went Rand, Mat (but mat looks taller for being thin) and then Perrin, probably around 5'10".

 

Cool that changes my mental image some.

 

 

[anamul]

I hate him. Lots of reason...can't re-call all now.

But he and his wife reminds of real savage.

And not to mention.....shouting like a ninny...

...in a little girl voice....

 

"oh, I won't let you harm the aes sedai Rand...oh..."

 

Ah, well, he wasted my time when I was reading WOT....won't waste any more on him. He belongs in a TNA wrestling match, he and his wife...both.

 

 

[professorskar]

Cubarey is right, they never said who put him in the cage.  Gaul says it took three men, I always assumed it was villagers.  I doubt the Whitecloaks did it, even though Whitecloaks were in the town, I can't see them doing anything but killing a captured Aiel. It was the Hunters of the Horn who captured Gaul and brought him back to the town, so I assumed it was people of the town who lifted him up there.

 

As for the topic of this thread, I don't hate Perrin.  Like most people, I find the Faile saga a little annoying and definitely dragged out.  It does seem that most Wheel of Time fans that I've seen (be it real life friends or online) will say "I really liked Perrin for the first few books, but once he married Faile (or, more specifically once she was captured) I started to hate him."

 

Now, SinisterDeath, I definitely don't think if Perrin didn't marry Faile he should go after Baerlon.  I don't see any reason why he should marry a city in Andor, that would just be weird (sorry, I couldn't resist :p).  But seriously, I don't think he should marry Berelain.  She's definitely not very likable, despite the fact she's described as very beautiful.  I'm pretty sure she's going to hook up with Galad anyway.

 

To play devil's advocate for a second, though, and some other people have mentioned it, Faile is from a different culture.  And judging from some of what we've seen of Saldean "courtship", ie, when she acts mad you're supposed to stand up to her, not apologize, etc, it seems that some of her feeling one way and doing another might just be a clash of cultures.  Hell, look at Cairhien, where every action you do is weighed for some ulterior motive.

 

I also find it frustrating the way Perrin treats the wolves, or that he doesn't embrace this aspect of himself, but that's coming from an outside perspective.  One of the great things Jordan does is his ability to get inside his characters' heads, and you have to look at things from Perrin's point of view.  Another big theme of the series is that adventures aren't always (in fact, almost never) like they are "in the stories".  It's easy for us, sitting in a big comfy chair while reading the books to play an "armchair ta'veren," but if we were faced with their decisions, with real consequences--death among them, how would we react?  To us, talking to wolves in our head sounds cool, and we want to see Perrin embrace his wolfbrotherhood.  To Perrin, it's something that someone who doesn't understand would shun or kill him for, or the very real possibility that he could basically lose his humanity like the poor wretch Noam he sees in that village (Jarra, I believe).

 

So when people judge Mat, Perrin, and Rand (especially Rand) too harshly, I say cut them a little slack.  None of us have had to face anything remotely like they have, and who knows how we'd react.

 

Now, one thing that really upset me about the Faile saga was when Perrin finally rescued her...specifically cutting Rolan down the way he did.  It's something I understand from his perspective, but, knowing that Rolan was actually helping Faile, actually got me angry about it...more the fact that she actually seemed to show no remorse whatsoever, although I can see from her perspective too, as the shock of seeing Perrin and knowing she was free must have been overwhelming.  Anyway, knowing Jordan's penchant for balance, I often wonder if this act will have serious consequences for Perrin.  The guy who was often seemed slow of thinking because he wanted to look at every situation from all sides, reacts out of pure rage and rashness and doing so, ends up killing an innocent.  Karma might have a price for this, and who knows, that price could even be Faile herself.

[Great Lord of the Dark]

Cubarey is right, they never said who put him in the cage.  Gaul says it took three men, I always assumed it was villagers.  I doubt the Whitecloaks did it, even though Whitecloaks were in the town, I can't see them doing anything but killing a captured Aiel. It was the Hunters of the Horn who captured Gaul and brought him back to the town, so I assumed it was people of the town who lifted him up there.

 

As for the topic of this thread, I don't hate Perrin.  Like most people, I find the Faile saga a little annoying and definitely dragged out.  It does seem that most Wheel of Time fans that I've seen (be it real life friends or online) will say "I really liked Perrin for the first few books, but once he married Faile (or, more specifically once she was captured) I started to hate him."

 

Now, SinisterDeath, I definitely don't think if Perrin didn't marry Faile he should go after Baerlon.  I don't see any reason why he should marry a city in Andor, that would just be weird (sorry, I couldn't resist :p).  But seriously, I don't think he should marry Berelain.  She's definitely not very likable, despite the fact she's described as very beautiful.  I'm pretty sure she's going to hook up with Galad anyway.

 

To play devil's advocate for a second, though, and some other people have mentioned it, Faile is from a different culture.  And judging from some of what we've seen of Saldean "courtship", ie, when she acts mad you're supposed to stand up to her, not apologize, etc, it seems that some of her feeling one way and doing another might just be a clash of cultures.  Hell, look at Cairhien, where every action you do is weighed for some ulterior motive.

 

I also find it frustrating the way Perrin treats the wolves, or that he doesn't embrace this aspect of himself, but that's coming from an outside perspective.  One of the great things Jordan does is his ability to get inside his characters' heads, and you have to look at things from Perrin's point of view.  Another big theme of the series is that adventures aren't always (in fact, almost never) like they are "in the stories".  It's easy for us, sitting in a big comfy chair while reading the books to play an "armchair ta'veren," but if we were faced with their decisions, with real consequences--death among them, how would we react?  To us, talking to wolves in our head sounds cool, and we want to see Perrin embrace his wolfbrotherhood.  To Perrin, it's something that someone who doesn't understand would shun or kill him for, or the very real possibility that he could basically lose his humanity like the poor wretch Noam he sees in that village (Jarra, I believe).

 

So when people judge Mat, Perrin, and Rand (especially Rand) too harshly, I say cut them a little slack.  None of us have had to face anything remotely like they have, and who knows how we'd react.

 

Now, one thing that really upset me about the Faile saga was when Perrin finally rescued her...specifically cutting Rolan down the way he did.  It's something I understand from his perspective, but, knowing that Rolan was actually helping Faile, actually got me angry about it...more the fact that she actually seemed to show no remorse whatsoever, although I can see from her perspective too, as the shock of seeing Perrin and knowing she was free must have been overwhelming.  Anyway, knowing Jordan's penchant for balance, I often wonder if this act will have serious consequences for Perrin.  The guy who was often seemed slow of thinking because he wanted to look at every situation from all sides, reacts out of pure rage and rashness and doing so, ends up killing an innocent.  Karma might have a price for this, and who knows, that price could even be Faile herself.

 

 

 

 

TOO "BEEPIN" LONG!!!!!!!!!

 

but i agree

[Vambram]

I agree with professorskar, Also.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

The guy who was often seemed slow of thinking because he wanted to look at every situation from all sides, reacts out of pure rage and rashness and doing so, ends up killing an innocent.  Karma might have a price for this, and who knows, that price could even be Faile herself.

 

A few point. Perrin is in the heat of battle, if you look at the way he fights, he is a Berzerker (ferocious viking warriors who entered a frenzied state of violance in battle) he sees Faile sees a few Ail Warriors next to her and attacks. Rolan and his boys react in a similar instinctive behavoir (like a good Ail Warrior) they see an armed non-Ail male and rush to the attack. Under these circumstances its hind of hard to suggest that Karma will punish Perrin for killing an innocent.

 

Morover, Perrin's true stumble with morality comes earlier.  When he finds Maseena and the other men torturing one of four captured Ail, he gets exassperated by the Ail's refusal to reveal whether they had seen Faile, he chops off the Ails hand, has an A.S. carterize the wound, then tells the four Ail that they will be seperated and asked the same questions. If they refuse to answer or their answers do not match a limb will be chopped off and carterized, and if he does not get the information he wants by the time all four limbs are chopped off he will not have them killed but will instead deposit them in a village and have them beg for their food.  Now, this does really cross the line, killing Rolan can be explained as what happens in the fog of battle, this was premeditated.

[Vambram]

After chopping off that hand of that Aiel and making those threats, what really did happen? I vaguely remember that scene, but right now I don't remember which book and chapter this occurred. Yes, Perrin cut off the prisoner's hand, but I don't want to judge him with the same values of morality we use in today's world. I don't want to judge him with our moral compass especially when I consider that this was the Shaido Aiel whom Perrin was going up against. I am sure that I don't need to remind everyone just how wickedly vile the Shaido were, and just how many ways that the Shaido Aiel cruelly disgraced their own people and culture. Perrin's action against those four prisoners were disturbing, but in the long view, I see it as necessary in order to get what he needed to effectively find Faile and defeat the Shaido.

 

[Great Lord of the Dark]

i think him going bezerker or whatever is cool, but he needs to really grow some balls when his wife is yelling st him and other htings like that

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

Despite his storyline not being necessary to the overall storyline, I still like Perrin. And not just because I can laugh at his relationship with his wife  ;D ;D ;D...

 

Perrin is very important to Rand, being Taveren, and also the "King of the Wolves," or at least a "Wolfbrother." We know he's mentioned in the Prophecies as well as Mat. We know he'll probably be Rand's connection to the wolves (and Elyas), and we know he's strong (berserker FTW).

 

So all in all, Perrin is also a central character to the plot. Despite his latest fiascoes, and his part of the storyline being extraneous, I love his character.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

I see it as necessary in order to get what he needed to effectively find Faile and defeat the Shaido.

 

 

Well its the kind of thing that a Choosen or a particularly imaginative of cruel Questioner might do. However, Its not something some from the Two Rivers, the Borderlands or even some Children of the Light would do. Moreover, his immediate reaction was to stalk into the woods and throw away the ax (it was later retrieved by his tinker hound). Indeed, even Maseena's men, and Maseena himself, seemed to be taken aback from the cruelty of the act.  The upshot of the entire episode was futility as the Shaido prisoners had not seen Faile or her companions.

 

Your characterization of the Shaido is a bit of. True their leadership alowed their ambitions to cloud there reasons which led them to be unwittingly be used by the Choosen.  Their breaking of custom was extreme but they have paid a prce. The cohesion of the Clan was breaking down (drunkeness, rape, etc.)but the Shaido as a who were not evil just willing to be lead by really bad leaders.