The best Healer in WoT ?

[Suttree]

Nyn also managed to cure maddness, something Semi could never due despite having devoted her life to it prior to going to the dark side.

 

Curing "madness" and finding away to remove the taint are two very different things. We have quotes from RJ which make clear what the OP can do with madness. Semi never even attempted to remove the "taint". Why would she? Regardless as stated above a couple new discoveries quite obviously don't off set all the knowledge lost. She has a long way to go.

 

Btw Semi never devoted her life to researching the mind, that was Graendal.

[James Andrew Powell]

Valid point

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't think Semrihage should be on the list in any case. She won't be doing much healing now.

 

If we are taking in the skills as per ToM, she shouldn't be on it. She doesn't exist.

[Vardar]

I don't think Semrihage should be on the list in any case. She won't be doing much healing now.

 

If we are taking in the skills as per ToM, she shouldn't be on it. She doesn't exist.

 

Well by stating WoT, we have to assume he means the series, thus leaving it open to anyone who is directly mentioned in the books.

 

I'm not sure myself. I think Ny, Semi and Flinn would be tied. I think they all have "Max Talent Potential" when it comes to healing, with Semi having the leg up by having her age, however Ny's seeing a weave once thing can't be discounted. Sadly, women were better healers right (talent wise) so Flinn wouldn't be in the running, but I'm mentioning him because what he did, he does on his own, from scratch after being taught the basic weave by someone who had no Talent for it. Think about it. All the healing being done at the Black tower now, everything they know about healing and such, was developed from scratch by Flinn, on his own, after he learned that basic healing weave. How freaking amazing is that?

[Entreri]

Very very easily Nyaneve.

 

First to cure being severed, took away madness and brought what his name out of the dead bed.

 

Great accomplishments no doubt but again we know...

 

“The Wise Ones learned about Healing from me. And from Nynaeve, I suppose,” she allowed after a moment. Oh, Nynaeve would have gone up like an Illuminator’s firework, hearing that. But then, Sumeko had outstripped Nynaeve long since.

 

Also as Nyn said...

ACoS

"No, no, go on," Nynaeve said absently. Most of her attention was fixed on the woman under her hands, but not all. "You seem to know a few things even I - That is to say, you have a very interesting way with the flows. I suspect you’ll find that a great many sisters want to learn from you."

 

In additon to the above admission from Nyn she came up with the new type of healing all on her own as well so that speaks to innovation. I suspect Nyn may be slightly better at coming up with new methods while Sumeko is more skilled in applying them

 

Nynaeve is like a savant healer. New techniques, innnovations come naturally and easily to her. Her raw talent is much greater.

Sumeko could not "heal" Rand's wound from Fain's dagger. Flinn did it and Sumeko was amazed. I have no doubt Nyaneve would have accomplished what Flinn did.

 

Aginor states that Flinn could do things the current Aes Sedai have never dreamed out. Flinn is beyond Sumeko.

 

Someone like Semirhage and to a lesser extent Sumeko do have great skill and much more experience, but Nyaneve is a natural and to a lesser extent so is Flinn.

The max potential of Nyaneve healing abilities are the greatest.

 

Semirhage had many hundreds of years to come up with healing severing in AoL, and she never did, that is a minus against her. In the real world, scientist come with new things all the times that other scientists state are impossible (e.g. invisibility cloak).

 

Nynaeve, Flinn, Semirhage and possibly Sumeko is how I would rate the healers.

 

Only thing left for Nynaeve is to heal death.

[MasterAblar]

I don't think Semrihage should be on the list in any case. She won't be doing much healing now.

 

If we are taking in the skills as per ToM, she shouldn't be on it. She doesn't exist.

 

Well by stating WoT, we have to assume he means the series, thus leaving it open to anyone who is directly mentioned in the books.

 

I'm not sure myself. I think Ny, Semi and Flinn would be tied. I think they all have "Max Talent Potential" when it comes to healing, with Semi having the leg up by having her age, however Ny's seeing a weave once thing can't be discounted. Sadly, women were better healers right (talent wise) so Flinn wouldn't be in the running, but I'm mentioning him because what he did, he does on his own, from scratch after being taught the basic weave by someone who had no Talent for it. Think about it. All the healing being done at the Black tower now, everything they know about healing and such, was developed from scratch by Flinn, on his own, after he learned that basic healing weave. How freaking amazing is that?

 

What makes you think women are better healers?

 

Nynaeve is like a savant healer. New techniques, innnovations come naturally and easily to her. Her raw talent is much greater.

Sumeko could not "heal" Rand's wound from Fain's dagger. Flinn did it and Sumeko was amazed. I have no doubt Nyaneve would have accomplished what Flinn did.

 

Aginor states that Flinn could do things the current Aes Sedai have never dreamed out. Flinn is beyond Sumeko.

 

That was Samitsu not Sumeko. Sumeko is the Kinswoman.

[Suttree]

Semirhage had many hundreds of years to come up with healing severing in AoL, and she never did, that is a minus against her. In the real world, scientist come with new things all the times that other scientists state are impossible (e.g. invisibility cloak).

 

Yeah Nyn has the most potential, that is without a doubt. However you are confusing Samitsu and Sumeko. It was Samitsu that couldn't heal Rand.We are told flat out that Sumeko has outpaced Nyn, she is the more skilled.

 

In regards to Semi again one great discovery does not equal all the AoL knowledge. Someday Nyn may be better but there is not a chance she is know.

 

BWB

Nemene Demandar was known for her ability to heal any injury, even to bring back people from the brink of death when all else had failed.

 

In an age where "all manner of wonders were commonplace." Semi was the best.

 

I do agree however that Nyn has the most raw talent. Although it is odd that Sumeko would "outstrip" Nyn during the course of the books with that being the case.

 

Edit: ninj by MA...

[Entreri]

Semirhage had many hundreds of years to come up with healing severing in AoL, and she never did, that is a minus against her. In the real world, scientist come with new things all the times that other scientists state are impossible (e.g. invisibility cloak).

 

Yeah Nyn has the most potential, that is without a doubt. However you are confusing Samitsu and Sumeko. It was Samitsu that couldn't heal Rand.We are told flat out that Sumeko has outpaced Nyn, she is the more skilled.

 

In regards to Semi again one great discovery does not equal all the AoL knowledge. Someday Nyn may be better but there is not a chance she is know.

 

BWB

Nemene Demandar was known for her ability to heal any injury, even to bring back people from the brink of death when all else had failed.

 

I do agree however that Nyn has the most raw talent. Although it is odd that Sumeko would "outstrip" Nyn during the course of the books with that being the case.

 

Edit: ninj by MA...

 

My mistake on the names.

 

What has Sumeko done to indicate she has outpaced Nyaneve? Nothing.

 

Do we know that Semirhage was the greatest healer in AoL? What has she discovered? I see no reason to put Semirhage above Nyaneve.

[Vardar]

I don't think Semrihage should be on the list in any case. She won't be doing much healing now.

 

If we are taking in the skills as per ToM, she shouldn't be on it. She doesn't exist.

 

Well by stating WoT, we have to assume he means the series, thus leaving it open to anyone who is directly mentioned in the books.

 

I'm not sure myself. I think Ny, Semi and Flinn would be tied. I think they all have "Max Talent Potential" when it comes to healing, with Semi having the leg up by having her age, however Ny's seeing a weave once thing can't be discounted. Sadly, women were better healers right (talent wise) so Flinn wouldn't be in the running, but I'm mentioning him because what he did, he does on his own, from scratch after being taught the basic weave by someone who had no Talent for it. Think about it. All the healing being done at the Black tower now, everything they know about healing and such, was developed from scratch by Flinn, on his own, after he learned that basic healing weave. How freaking amazing is that?

 

What makes you think women are better healers?

 

Nynaeve is like a savant healer. New techniques, innnovations come naturally and easily to her. Her raw talent is much greater.

Sumeko could not "heal" Rand's wound from Fain's dagger. Flinn did it and Sumeko was amazed. I have no doubt Nyaneve would have accomplished what Flinn did.

 

Aginor states that Flinn could do things the current Aes Sedai have never dreamed out. Flinn is beyond Sumeko.

 

That was Samitsu not Sumeko. Sumeko is the Kinswoman.

 

I thought it was established that healing was one of the Talents that women were always stronger in, like Men and Gateways. Now I'm going to rack my brain for that quote, I could have sworn someone said it (Moriane, or a forsaken or someone).

[Suttree]

My mistake on the names.

 

What has Sumeko done to indicate she has outpaced Nyaneve? Nothing.

 

Let's not fall into the Gawyn "screen time" trap that often comes up in arguments about blademasters. I think Nyn is the more innovative, Sumeko is the more skilled at applying(although she did invent the new style of healing on her own). Sumeko thinks she has outpaced Nyn so yeah she could be wrong, but Nyn herself thinks Sumeko knows things she doesn't.

 

Do we know that Semirhage was the greatest healer in AoL? What has she discovered? I see no reason to put Semirhage above Nyaneve.

 

Yes we do...

 

BWB

While Graendal had been a healer of the mind beyond compare, the woman to be known as Semirhage, then Nemene Damendar Boann, had been an equally renowned healer of the body.

 

As has been stated numerous times a discovery like stilling is incredible but it doesn't mean more than hundreds of years of training and accumulated skill during a time in which "wonders were common place". Nyn will be better if she continues to learn and grow throughout her life. As of now she isn't. Give her time mate, she has only been channeling a few years!

[MasterAblar]

I don't think Semrihage should be on the list in any case. She won't be doing much healing now.

 

If we are taking in the skills as per ToM, she shouldn't be on it. She doesn't exist.

 

Well by stating WoT, we have to assume he means the series, thus leaving it open to anyone who is directly mentioned in the books.

 

I'm not sure myself. I think Ny, Semi and Flinn would be tied. I think they all have "Max Talent Potential" when it comes to healing, with Semi having the leg up by having her age, however Ny's seeing a weave once thing can't be discounted. Sadly, women were better healers right (talent wise) so Flinn wouldn't be in the running, but I'm mentioning him because what he did, he does on his own, from scratch after being taught the basic weave by someone who had no Talent for it. Think about it. All the healing being done at the Black tower now, everything they know about healing and such, was developed from scratch by Flinn, on his own, after he learned that basic healing weave. How freaking amazing is that?

 

What makes you think women are better healers?

 

Nynaeve is like a savant healer. New techniques, innnovations come naturally and easily to her. Her raw talent is much greater.

Sumeko could not "heal" Rand's wound from Fain's dagger. Flinn did it and Sumeko was amazed. I have no doubt Nyaneve would have accomplished what Flinn did.

 

Aginor states that Flinn could do things the current Aes Sedai have never dreamed out. Flinn is beyond Sumeko.

 

That was Samitsu not Sumeko. Sumeko is the Kinswoman.

 

I thought it was established that healing was one of the Talents that women were always stronger in, like Men and Gateways. Now I'm going to rack my brain for that quote, I could have sworn someone said it (Moriane, or a forsaken or someone).

 

Umm... men are better at gateways?

[Entreri]

My mistake on the names.

 

What has Sumeko done to indicate she has outpaced Nyaneve? Nothing.

 

Let's not fall into the Gawyn "screen time" trap that often comes up in arguments about baldemasters. I think Nyn is the more innovative, Sumeko is the more skilled at applying(although she did invent the new style of healing on her own). Sumeko thinks she has outpaced Nyn so yeah she could be wrong, but Nyn herself thinks Sumeko knows things she doesn't.

 

Sumeko thinks? Is there anybody else who thinks this, preferably someone who is a healer?

 

Of course Sumeko would know things that Nynaeve does not know. Sumeko is 100's of years older. That does not mean that Sumkeo is more skilled than Nyaneve, all the evidence points to a different conclusion.

 

Beside a few handful, nobody else thought Gawyn was the best blademaster. Lan has always been protrayed as the best.

 

The majority opinion is that Nyaneve is the best healer, and they are right. Nyaneve has been protrayed as the best healer in the series. How good is Nyaneve, even Rand Sedai was amazed. LTT was the greatest Aes Sedai ever and he was amazed at Nyaneve.

[Entreri]

"Umm... men are better at gateways?"

 

Men generally can make larger gateways, due to OP strenght difference. But I would not say better in terms of Talent.

 

Women channelers might be better (more Talented) in TAR. Moghdien, Lanfear, Egwene...I don't think any male channelers can compete with those three. There is no indication that LTT was great in TAR.

[Suttree]

The majority opinion is that Nyaneve is the best healer, and they are right. Nyaneve has been protrayed as the best healer in the series. How good is Nyaneve, even Rand Sedai was amazed. LTT was the greatest Aes Sedai ever and he was amazed at Nyaneve.

 

I editied my last post so not sure if you saw it. Here is what I added...

 

Do we know that Semirhage was the greatest healer in AoL? What has she discovered? I see no reason to put Semirhage above Nyaneve.

 

Yes we do...

 

BWB

While Graendal had been a healer of the mind beyond compare, the woman to be known as Semirhage, then Nemene Damendar Boann, had been an equally renowned healer of the body.

 

As has been stated numerous times a discovery like stilling is incredible but it doesn't mean more than hundreds of years of training and accumulated skill during a time in which "wonders were common place". Nyn will be better if she continues to learn and grow throughout her life. As of now she isn't. Give her time mate, she has only been channeling a few years!

[Vardar]

"Umm... men are better at gateways?"

 

Men generally can make larger gateways, due to OP strenght difference. But I would not say better in terms of Talent.

 

Women channelers might be better (more Talented) in TAR. Moghdien, Lanfear, Egwene...I don't think any male channelers can compete with those three. There is no indication that LTT was great in TAR.

 

By better I meant make larger, yes.

 

I may be wrong about the healing thing, I'll do some research to find out and get back here eventually.

[Entreri]

The majority opinion is that Nyaneve is the best healer, and they are right. Nyaneve has been protrayed as the best healer in the series. How good is Nyaneve, even Rand Sedai was amazed. LTT was the greatest Aes Sedai ever and he was amazed at Nyaneve.

 

I editied my last post so not sure if you saw it. Here is what I added...

 

Do we know that Semirhage was the greatest healer in AoL? What has she discovered? I see no reason to put Semirhage above Nyaneve.

 

Yes we do...

 

BWB

While Graendal had been a healer of the mind beyond compare, the woman to be known as Semirhage, then Nemene Damendar Boann, had been an equally renowned healer of the body.

 

As has been stated numerous times a discovery like stilling is incredible but it doesn't mean more than hundreds of years of training and accumulated skill during a time in which "wonders were common place". Nyn will be better if she continues to learn and grow throughout her life. As of now she isn't. Give her time mate, she has only been channeling a few years!

 

Being the the greatest healer in AoL, she still has not discovered how to heal severing, which is huge concern to Aes Sedai.

 

Nyaneve has moved beyond Semirhage. Savant vs. a very talented healer.

 

I don't doubt that Semirhage was learned various techinques in 100's of years, but we have not seen her perform any feats that come remotely close to Nyaneve's. For someone that is supposedly that skilled, we have very little go on from the books. Her accomplishments cannot have been that great in comparison to Nyaneve's.

 

Here is an analogy:

Lan is the greatest blademaster, best killer. His wife? The greatest healer. They do make an interesting power couple.

[MasterAblar]

I don't doubt that Semirhage was learned various techinques in 100's of years, but we have not seen her perform any feats that come remotely close to Nyaneve's.

 

Well she's sort of the Lady of Pain. She has a reputation to uphold you know!

[Entreri]

I don't doubt that Semirhage was learned various techinques in 100's of years, but we have not seen her perform any feats that come remotely close to Nyaneve's.

 

Well she's sort of the Lady of Pain. She has reputation to uphold you know!

 

I would certainly rate her as the greatest torturer ever.

 

Probably in AoL Semirhage's career got sidetracked, she like hurting more than healing. .

[Wandering Channeler]

@ Sut

 

I'm not a big fan of posting "nyn's better!" "no semi's better!" (Sut you're not the one doing this) so instead of doing that we can actually look at the details and come to an educated conclusion (Sut I know you're a fan of the details :)) I get the AoL - "wonders were common place" thing, and that Semi brought people back from the brink of death, but that doesn't quite satisfy me and here are my thoughts why:

 

Didn't Samistu bring Dobraine back so close from the brink of death that people already said he was dead? - If that can be agreed upon, and everyone has already said that Nyn, Semuko, Semi, and Flinn all far outstripe Samistu then the back from the brink part of Semi and the AoL being above Nyn, Semuko, and Flinn does not qualify for me. Obviously Samistu is the best of the Aes Sedai healer (pre Nyn) so I'm not saying Semi isn't still phenominal, just that this is not a qualification for being better than the other three.

 

"wonders were common place" - since we're talking about healing in this thread we will stick to wonders involving healing. As stated there is the cure of severing, but I know that doesn't cut if for you. So if you include the back from the brink of death example, the curing taint madness, the curing of compulsion (yeah I know he was basically dead, but not completely dead), Flinn jimmy rigging Rands wounds to fight each other and not just devour him, and that's all I can think of for now, doesn't that seem like quite a few wonders? My question is what other common place wonders were in the AoL that could match these?

 

Now I will go ahead and back track on my previous statement saying the current age healing is better than AoL healing. I was wrong in that, with the healing centers setup and all that jazz then yes the AoL healing was probably better than the 3rd age healing, or at least the organization of healing was compared to the 3rd age.

 

So is there something I'm missing? Or are we just suppose to assume the AoL was the best at everything? (not ment to be sarcasim, hope it doesn't sound that way)

[elric]

as far as i remember it was mentioned that Semi WAS the best healer in AOL and that ppl travel from all over the world to be healed by her.

i also think there a quote by graendal about Semi claiming severing can be healed but it was not clear if she did bother to find such an heal or not.

 

and yup i DID ment in the ENTIRE WoT books (feel free to add any char dead or alive (or between :) ) if u think she/he/it have a chance for the title :)

[elric]

Wondering:

there several quote from the forsaken talks/PoV that 3rd age healing is a crude first aid in comparing to AoL.

 

not that i disagrea with u on the level of miracles 3rd age healewr produce, but those miracles are not the standard level of 3rd age healing.

btw i posted an analysys on nyn/semi/Sum on the opening thread ,i didnt realy counted Flinn at the running at that time , but the case in his favour made him a valid contender :)

[driedraspberry]

Very very easily Nyaneve.

 

First to cure being severed, took away madness and brought what his name out of the dead bed.

 

Great accomplishments no doubt but again we know...

 

“The Wise Ones learned about Healing from me. And from Nynaeve, I suppose,” she allowed after a moment. Oh, Nynaeve would have gone up like an Illuminator’s firework, hearing that. But then, Sumeko had outstripped Nynaeve long since.

 

Also as Nyn said...

ACoS

"No, no, go on," Nynaeve said absently. Most of her attention was fixed on the woman under her hands, but not all. "You seem to know a few things even I - That is to say, you have a very interesting way with the flows. I suspect you’ll find that a great many sisters want to learn from you."

 

In additon to the above admission from Nyn she came up with the new type of healing all on her own as well so that speaks to innovation. I suspect Nyn may be slightly better at coming up with new methods while Sumeko is more skilled in applying them

 

Nynaeve is like a savant healer. New techniques, innnovations come naturally and easily to her. Her raw talent is much greater.

Sumeko could not "heal" Rand's wound from Fain's dagger. Flinn did it and Sumeko was amazed. I have no doubt Nyaneve would have accomplished what Flinn did.

 

Aginor states that Flinn could do things the current Aes Sedai have never dreamed out. Flinn is beyond Sumeko.

 

Someone like Semirhage and to a lesser extent Sumeko do have great skill and much more experience, but Nyaneve is a natural and to a lesser extent so is Flinn.

The max potential of Nyaneve healing abilities are the greatest.

 

Semirhage had many hundreds of years to come up with healing severing in AoL, and she never did, that is a minus against her. In the real world, scientist come with new things all the times that other scientists state are impossible (e.g. invisibility cloak).

 

Nynaeve, Flinn, Semirhage and possibly Sumeko is how I would rate the healers.

 

Only thing left for Nynaeve is to heal death.

 

In an advanced society as that of AoL stilling most likely wasn't a common occurrence, so I doubt Semi spent time studying it.

 

In any case, look at all of Semi's innovation when she describes her torture techniques. Her understanding of how the human body can be manipulated with OP is unmatched.

 

And have we seen current AS heal complex diseases like cancer or autoimmune disorders? Nyn said healing Rand's eyes would be too risky. I imagine these are areas AoLers surpassed current AS.

[Entreri]

"In an advanced society as that of AoL stilling most likely wasn't a common occurrence, so I doubt Semi spent time studying it.

 

In any case, look at all of Semi's innovation when she describes her torture techniques. Her understanding of how the human body can be manipulated with OP is unmatched.

 

And have we seen current AS heal complex diseases like cancer or autoimmune disorders? Nyn said healing Rand's eyes would be too risky. I imagine these are areas AoLers surpassed current AS"

 

 

It is something that all AS would be concerned about and unquestionably they had studied it extensively. Ishamael himself has stated that it is "impossible".

 

I don't doubt that Semirhage was the best torturer. AoLers could have surpassed the current top healers in some areas and vice versa, Semirhage had not shown an area where she has surpassed Nyaneve in healing. And there is no mention of her big healing "discoveries" in AoL. Aginor for instance is credited with the likes of creating the gholams, Trollocs etc.

 

There is nothing in the books to indicate that Semirhage surpasses Nyaneve in healing.

 

Nyaneve did heal madness as well, before long probably death.

[Whizbang]

Speaking of healing death, this seems entirely possible in the world of WoT. Everyone is reborn, so that means the spirit is held in reserve somewhere close by. Just, you know, find that place, reach out, and yank it back. Nynaeve, then Necromancer.

[Suttree]

Nyaneve did heal madness as well, before long probably death.

 

Removing the taint from the mind is not healing madness. Theys are seperate things. Per RJ...

 

Interview: Oct 9th, 1996

Robert Jordan

 

Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In the Prologue to The Eye of the World we saw True Power used to heal insanity. The One Power cannot be used to heal insanity.

 

In relation to knowledge lost that Semi would know here is another quote from Nyn...

 

LoC

And all that knowledge lost. Moghedien might know nothing of Healing, but she had given Nynaeve a dozen hints of what was possible, and there had to be more in her head. With those to guide her, what might she discover eventually?

 

I guess it really comes down to definition. Skill and innovation perhaps Nyn(although we know Semi experimented widely with pain) in terms of knowledge most certainly it goes to Semi. Also that same passage shows Moggy put her on the right track fo that new type of healing. Sumeko discovered it all on her own. That is a pretty large check for innovation.