Lanfear

[thisguy]

Short and Sweet Prediction and Explanation:

 

Someone was saying that Lan was the only parallel to Lancelot when going by character names. It occurred to me that Lanfear was another. In fact, Lanfear may be a combination of Lancelot and Guinnevere - as she is indeed a narcissist and in love with herself. So, as both Lancelot and Guinnevere were close to Arthur, Lanfear was close to LTT. As they both betrayed Arthur, she betrayed LTT.

 

In some versions of the Arthur tale, Lancelot came back to Arthur to help in his war with Mordred.

 

What do we have in the WoT?

 

1. Lanfear wants LTT/Rand back.

2. Lanfear mentions that with the Choedan Kal they could defy the DO.

3. Lanfear, more than even Rand/LTT backed with the bit they know from Herid Fel, might know more than any other living person on how to seal the Bore.

 

At this point, Lanfear in her Cyndane incarnation has contacted Rand in his dreams and has told him that she is being tortured. Either it's a sham and she is playing her part to lure him in somehow or she is really being tortured. Even if she is part of a ploy, she has been reduced to that of a slave for Moridin.

 

There is a chance that Lanfear will help fix the problem which she created - the Bore. There is foreshadowing of her defying the DO. She is logically the only person who really may know how to seal the Bore.

 

Edit to Add: if you look at the Nae'blis and the other 12 forsake as the Anti Christ and twelve anti apostles, Lanfear is sometimes thought to be the next most powerful to Mori. As a Judas figure, she would help Rand to seal the Bore.

[TootThatHorn]

Some possibilities I would say; I wouldn't so much call her betraying LTT so much as being scorned, since I'll bet if she could have had LTT at her side while being dark she would have. If you remember back in tDR when she is talking to Mat in the WT she says she serves no one, and there is only one person she would stand beside (LTT/Rand), which if she meets Rand again she may go all lusty seeing Rand Sedai and try to help him. And I would assume she wouldn't even see this as a betrayal of the DO given that I don't think she ever felt she served him, she has always only served herself.

[thisguy]

Some possibilities I would say; I wouldn't so much call her betraying LTT so much as being scorned, since I'll bet if she could have had LTT at her side while being dark she would have. If you remember back in tDR when she is talking to Mat in the WT she says she serves no one, and there is only one person she would stand beside (LTT/Rand), which if she meets Rand again she may go all lusty seeing Rand Sedai and try to help him. And I would assume she wouldn't even see this as a betrayal of the DO given that I don't think she ever felt she served him, she has always only served herself.

 

That's true. She is completely self serving and LTT did scorn her. You're right. The self serving part does fall into the half Lancelot half Guinnevere narcissistic thing.

 

Thanks for your input Toot! Much appreciated.

[MarkDiLillo]

Ya Lanfears role in the last book is one of the major question marks for me that I am anxious to read about.

[The Fisher King]

I would give so much to see our first reversal of transmigration and see our short, silvery-blonde little Cyndane somehow revert back to our tall, raven-haired psycho ex gf Daughter of the Night...LANFEAR!!!!

 

 

Fish

[skalors3]

I like this theory thisguy. Lanfear was the one who initially discovered the TP and tapped that power. She would have the most knowledge regarding the prison.

 

Since she is being tortured, treated like a piece of meat and has reached out to LTT, she has redemptive qualities.

[MarkDiLillo]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

[skalors3]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

 

I've never really batted around the idea of how Rand would solve this problem. I always felt that the reason the DO tainted Saidin was because it had direct contact with him. So I figured a buffer was needed. Then when knowledge of the TP became known, I felt like the TP would be required as a buffer between Saidin and Saidar, so I assumed that someone would turn or Rand would gain access to the TP. When Rand gained access, I stopped thinking; I figured I hit the nail on the head. Maybe I should reconsider and look at some other theories out there.

[raven_89]

I would give so much to see our first reversal of transmigration and see our short, silvery-blonde little Cyndane somehow revert back to our tall, raven-haired psycho ex gf Daughter of the Night...LANFEAR!!!!

 

 

Fish

 

Fish, I'm with you on this. Though I highly doubt that would happen. But I'd really like to see that, that's for sure. :D

I can still see her abandoning the Shadow - for the very same reason she abandoned the light. Hatred. (Yeah, I know she only wanted power among anything else etc., but it was really her hatred of Lews Therin's choice for Ilyena over her, of her never getting the third name thus never making her one of the "biggest" of her age, and the feeling that she was not treated she should have been by anyone.)

[Kestrel]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

[Sharaman]

I think one key to understanding Lanfear may be her uncontrollable anger issues. Get her pissed off and she's liable to do something absolutely crazy-impulsive.

Maybe even to risk the cour'savra broken on her. If the GLoD and Moridin "punish" her enough, she might blow up and hence, help the Light.

And, we still don't know what the Finns gave her.

[The Fisher King]

I hear ya Raven.

 

Sharaman - love your point. Psychotically angry Lanfear flat ROCKED, lol.

 

 

Fish

[jmniles]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

Could they not just fill it with bondo or carpenter's putty and paint over it. not literally but you get the idea. Make a patch that blends perfectly with the original prison. Instead of rebuilding the deck just change out one 2x4

[MasterAblar]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

Could they not just fill it with bondo or carpenter's putty and paint over it. not literally but you get the idea. Make a patch that blends perfectly with the original prison. Instead of rebuilding the deck just change out one 2x4

 

That suggest that mankind would be capable of imitating the Creator. LTT claims that is where they failed in the first place, that they were too proud

[jmniles]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

Could they not just fill it with bondo or carpenter's putty and paint over it. not literally but you get the idea. Make a patch that blends perfectly with the original prison. Instead of rebuilding the deck just change out one 2x4

 

That suggest that mankind would be capable of imitating the Creator. LTT claims that is where they failed in the first place, that they were too proud

 

But isn't the same implied when people talk about rebuilding the entire prison? The "fix" whichever it is would have to be perfect enough that by the time it is the second age again it is forgotten.

[MasterAblar]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

Could they not just fill it with bondo or carpenter's putty and paint over it. not literally but you get the idea. Make a patch that blends perfectly with the original prison. Instead of rebuilding the deck just change out one 2x4

 

That suggest that mankind would be capable of imitating the Creator. LTT claims that is where they failed in the first place, that they were too proud

 

But isn't the same implied when people talk about rebuilding the entire prison? The "fix" whichever it is would have to be perfect enough that by the time it is the second age again it is forgotten.

 

Unless the Creator puposfully created an imperfection in the prison. But I find that doubtful. So yeah the fix would have to be perfect by the time the second age comes again, but perfect, as in Creator made, can not be done by mankind. So how do they do it? If the answer was obvious we'd already have found it.

[jmniles]

So unless there is another time in the cycle of the wheel where they have to fix the prison then we can assume the Dragon will have a perfect fix by the end of Tarmon Gai'don.

[MarkDiLillo]

Finns did not give her anything unless it was knowledge. We know this because Moridin killed her to get her out of there and therefor she was not able to take anything with her when she left.

[jmniles]

Finns did not give her anything unless it was knowledge. We know this because Moridin killed her to get her out of there and therefor she was not able to take anything with her when she left.

 

Do we know for a fact that he had to kill her to get her out? Her switching bodies could very well have been an attempt to get some of her Power back, or many other reasons only known to the shadow.

[MarkDiLillo]

Finns did not give her anything unless it was knowledge. We know this because Moridin killed her to get her out of there and therefor she was not able to take anything with her when she left.

 

Do we know for a fact that he had to kill her to get her out? Her switching bodies could very well have been an attempt to get some of her Power back, or many other reasons only known to the shadow.

 

Ya, it is stated that he killed her to get her out in Chapter 1.

[jmniles]

Thanks. couldn't remember

[Fred Cauthon]

She definitely has redemptive qualities, but I dont think her role in sealing the bore will be very large. The reason being that I actually am against the idea that the bore needs "sealed" anymore. I suspect the ultimate solution is going to be to leave it wide open and an alternative method to neutralizing the DO will be found. We see the beginnings of this in Rand's thoughts during Chapter 1. The ultimate solution is going to be a more theoretical solution and not something quite as technical. There is a lot of evidence that also indicates this as well.

To restore the Dark One's prison to the state it was in prior to the Second Age, merely patching or sealing the bore is not an option. The bore actually has to be un-made as if it had never existed.

 

Lanfear's role may be to reveal what she did to create the bore, so that it can be reversed, unwoven, unmade.

Could they not just fill it with bondo or carpenter's putty and paint over it. not literally but you get the idea. Make a patch that blends perfectly with the original prison. Instead of rebuilding the deck just change out one 2x4

 

That suggest that mankind would be capable of imitating the Creator. LTT claims that is where they failed in the first place, that they were too proud

 

But isn't the same implied when people talk about rebuilding the entire prison? The "fix" whichever it is would have to be perfect enough that by the time it is the second age again it is forgotten.

 

Unless the Creator puposfully created an imperfection in the prison. But I find that doubtful. So yeah the fix would have to be perfect by the time the second age comes again, but perfect, as in Creator made, can not be done by mankind. So how do they do it? If the answer was obvious we'd already have found it.

I think the Creator would make it imperfect. If a human can breach it or touch the DO in the first place (Lanfear) then it isn't perfect. There was a quote from TGH I think about all the worlds that might be. It went on to say that the creator, much like a gardener doesn't weep for a plant that dies, but rather moves on to the next plant. i.e. Creator made the world imperfect, and left humanity to make the world in their image. A lot like giving a child play dough and saying make what you will with this.

 

Fred

[bsmnt23]

I like this theory thisguy. Lanfear was the one who initially discovered the TP and tapped that power. She would have the most knowledge regarding the prison.

 

Since she is being tortured, treated like a piece of meat and has reached out to LTT, she has redemptive qualities.

 

There is no redemption for any of the Forsaken. They are each of them as vile as a human could possibly be and no amount of personal regret or attempt to return to the Light could ever make up for their actions. Lanfear is as bad as any of the rest and watching her soul being tortured by the Dark One (or physicaly by Shadar Haran) gives me as much of a warm and fuzzy as I'll get when David Hannlon gets his.

 

She might have infomation that could be used about the nature of the prison of the DO, but there is no way providing that infomation could make up for the least of her actions when she went over to the Shadow.

[dhammett11]

I'm going out on a limb and placing my bets on the following theory.

 

Theory: Cyndane's plea to Rand for help at the end of ToM in fact was genuine. She is being punished by Moridin because she wasted "last chance". She did when she accompanied Shadow Haran to free Semirhage by not removing removing the access key.

 

She opened Pandora's box (for the second time since Meirin opened the Bore in the first place) and let loose all manner of evil, leaving behind only one thing: hope. The next time Cyndane makes contact with Rand, she will try to earn Rand's trust by explaining how she left the Choedan Kal for him on purpose to help him and subvert Moridin.

 

 

[maradon]

Considering all the religious paralleling that has been included in these books I would say that it is highly likely lanfear will admit her sins to LTT and achieve redemption just before death. If this includes info about the bore who knows.

 

Considering sealing the bore I've always thought that Rands wounds show a way to contain the dark ones power/taint and deal with fain at the same time. Coupled to the fact that Rands wounds are mentioned in practically every book would show classic RJ foreshadowing.