[ADVANCED] KaeKey Game of Thrones Mafia - GAME OVER! NIGHT'S WATCH WINS!

[michellem]

Red, I can't remember ever saying anything about thinking Basel is cult RB. Keep your facts right if you're gonna case me. I'll spell it out for you: I'm town, vanilla.

 

 

My pings have been Verb, Dice, and Rand 2.0, I can't point to anything specific. But Dice pings me the most.

[michellem]

And now I'll go to bed, I'm having double vision just from reading down this page, bah.

[Red2111]

What's wrong with the logic that focusing on Mafia is a better move right now? If cult had a backup, then this game is pretty much already over for town. There would have had to have been 2 cult to start and a recruit each day, subtract one, is 7 people.... a voting majority.

 

whats wrong is that your chosing one over the other. both are equal threats imo and both need equal focus. i'll be just as happy with a cult lynch as i woudl with a scum lynch. whats wrong is that your placing a priorety on one and discounting the other while simultaneously discounting the good possability theres a back up cult leader.

 

 

Also, let's say there is a backup and recruiting was every other day for balance... then wouldn't the backup cult leader have to be someone who hasn't claimed or fake claimed as opposed to Ed who at least started as Cop and EP who thanks to John we know didn't start as cult? Wouldn't it behoove us to make getting the backup leader a priority? In that case, doesn't it seem logical to hunt in the list of unclaimed folks for mafia/backup cult leader as a top priority?

 

i've already stated my opinion on the LD clearing EP from being cult. it depends on what verbage he checked and the exact wording. that said, EPs character makes logical sense for being the back up cult leader. and yes, getting the back up cult leader is a priorety if there is one, whcih is why i'm still willing to lynch EP over everyone else.

 

 

I still don't think there is a backup. As such, I think mafia hunting is the best way to go. Afterall, cultists would be rendered roleless and not pose a threat at night.

 

i agree, any one recruited should lose their powers, otherwise your balance is screwed. however, i really dont liek how you dismiss the possability of a back up cult leader so quickly. its not a very pro-town way of thinking imo and your way to sure of it for my liking.

 

 

 

I actually just thought about this Red, since you pointed out again that recruited people usually lose their abilities. If BG had been recruited, wouldn't he have lost his ability as well, which means that most likely Basel and EP's ability wouldn't be able to be used either.

 

EPs abilty i'm not so sure about, as his role specifically isn't a RB but a Jailer. BG did you get clarification fromt he mods if your role enables a Jailer role or just specifically RBers.

 

also, theres the fact BGs role is passive rather than active; so having him retain that role woudln't actually make the cult more powerful, seeing as if they did recruit the RB the RB woudl still be rendered roleless. in short, BG being recruited doesn't affect the balance one way or the other role power wise, so i can see both ways on that. the reason people are rendered roleless when recruited is to prevent a shift or hard hit to your balance, just like in most games scum/masons are unrecruitable by the cult. the balance issues arising from allowing a scum/masons to be recruited by cult are very large. first the recruited scum/mason can out their team mates if not restricted, they also can't be kicked off the QT without the team getting alarm bells going off.

 

 

Have we heard from Basel or EP if they know whether their NA still works?

 

i dont recall them saying Day 6. in know Basel is in the Sandy effected area and has been restricted in internet usage which explains his decreased activity. neither would be told if they've been blocked, nor if their power worked. or atleast they shouldnt be informed.

 

this is why i specifically suggested Basel target Ed. Ed has an active role that will tell him when and if he's blocked via no results. its the only outed role that will allow us to preform this sort of test.

 

 

We don't know that Basel successfully blocked Razen, but the evidence does kind of lean in that favor for that night, which was two nights ago. I know he said who he blocked the night before last as well I think, just can't remember who it was. Hmmm... wasn't it Verb in fact? Did Verb ever confirm being blocked that night?

 

yes he claimed Verb and got flack for it if i recall, even had a wagon started on him over it. i can't recall Verb ever backign that up though.

[bgrishinko]

I'm an enabler for "blocking roles." I take that to mean Jailer would be included. I haven't asked specifically.

[Gabriel Kross]

I actually just thought about this Red, since you pointed out again that recruited people usually lose their abilities. If BG had been recruited, wouldn't he have lost his ability as well, which means that most likely Basel and EP's ability wouldn't be able to be used either.

 

Have we heard from Basel or EP if they know whether their NA still works? We don't know that Basel successfully blocked Razen, but the evidence does kind of lean in that favor for that night, which was two nights ago. I know he said who he blocked the night before last as well I think, just can't remember who it was. Hmmm... wasn't it Verb in fact? Did Verb ever confirm being blocked that night?

 

I do like how you brought up Dice however, I almost forgot about him. He could use some pressure as well imo. Still think Verb is the way to go today however, as the wifom involving him and Darthe won't go away till we get a coroner's report or a viewing

 

I blocked basel. I don't trust him, and think he needs to be lynched.

[Verbal32]

So, you're cult and trying to focus the town on hunting mafia, while I'm mafia and trying to focus the town on hunting cult?

 

Hmmm....sounds like we both need to die, eh?

 

Wuttttt???

 

I already had my doubts about you Verb, ever since Darthe flipped maf, but this here pretty much seems like an admission of guilt. Regardless of whether or not BG is cult, he does have a point in that eliminating the NK would make it easier for us to find cult afterwards.

 

Yeah, you gots to go today.

 

Vote Verbal

 

And I still think we need to take care of NS at some point, either lynching him or viewing him. The case on Cyan looked pretty strong, and it kinda looked to me like she EP'd Nightstrike (ask JLM). Not sure why everyone let him off the hook so easy after that

 

Don't be so narrow-minded. Think of the big picture.

[Basel Gill]

@Red: I actually did block Ed last night, for very much the same reasons as you mentioned. However, I guess it had no effect, since EP says he used his power on me. And I've had my internet back since Saturday afternoon, for which I'm quite grateful.

[Kaylee]

I don't really have time to catch up atm. I will do a reread Thursday and post thoughts.

[dicetosser1]

Of course red bought me up Des she has been doing it constantly this game because i argued with her flip on NS. It still strikes me as odd that she pushed the NS lynch hardcore then when she died and was reborn she suddenly did a complete 180. Now days later she bought it up AGAIN to have a go at mish. She has been trying to back away from the push she gave that lynch ever since she came back in.

 

She smells rotten to me but I doubt anyone will back me in voting her. They haven't so far.

[hazelkrs1]

So, you're cult and trying to focus the town on hunting mafia, while I'm mafia and trying to focus the town on hunting cult?

 

Hmmm....sounds like we both need to die, eh?

 

Wuttttt???

 

I already had my doubts about you Verb, ever since Darthe flipped maf, but this here pretty much seems like an admission of guilt. Regardless of whether or not BG is cult, he does have a point in that eliminating the NK would make it easier for us to find cult afterwards.

 

Yeah, you gots to go today.

 

Vote Verbal

 

And I still think we need to take care of NS at some point, either lynching him or viewing him. The case on Cyan looked pretty strong, and it kinda looked to me like she EP'd Nightstrike (ask JLM). Not sure why everyone let him off the hook so easy after that

 

Don't be so narrow-minded. Think of the big picture.

 

 

Where's the button that turns off the "cryptic responses"?

 

Can you verify whether or not you were blocked the night before last? Could possibly vet a couple of players, and your crypticness instead of being straitforth and answering questions that involve you aren't helping your case bub

 

@Red: I actually did block Ed last night, for very much the same reasons as you mentioned. However, I guess it had no effect, since EP says he used his power on me. And I've had my internet back since Saturday afternoon, for which I'm quite grateful.

 

You've made some strange decisions in regards to who you've tried to block the last couple of nights. Verb seemed kinda unnecessary to block since EP blocked him plenty and it never averted a NK or anything, and Ed seems strange as well, since knowing that there was another blocker role out there that strongly distrusted you, trying to vet Ed by seeing if he lied and said he got a viewing prob wouldn't work.

 

You def earned some townie cred in my book personally for blocking and helping to lynch Razen, but these last couple of nights I think we could have made better use of your abilities tbh. But of course I could be wrong and a bit of randomness can occassionally help

 

Of course red bought me up Des she has been doing it constantly this game because i argued with her flip on NS. It still strikes me as odd that she pushed the NS lynch hardcore then when she died and was reborn she suddenly did a complete 180. Now days later she bought it up AGAIN to have a go at mish. She has been trying to back away from the push she gave that lynch ever since she came back in.

 

She smells rotten to me but I doubt anyone will back me in voting her. They haven't so far.

 

Doubt anyone will follow you down that road at this point. She's an unCC'ed major character, and a Doc at that, and her story adds up somewhat with Kaylee's claim. It's possible that they are both lying, but they are linked strongly enough that if one dies or something, it vets the other if they're town, or condemns the other if scum.

 

I just think Red got behind in the game, never finished her reread, so decided to rely on old reads that weren't really current with all the info we had established.

 

Speaking of, @Red:

 

You keep talking about not trusting the LD view on EP because of verbiage used, but Snow made it very clear what verbiage he used before he died. Prob missed that as well

 

He checked a statement that EP had made about never receiving notification that he was in the Night's Watch, and it checked out. EP thought it was a strange choice of a statement to check, I thought it was pretty clever as it doesn't really allow for an out if he either started the game as Night's Watch, or had been recruited. Only other possibility really is that EP is a silvertongue. I highly doubt that he would have that ability in addition to either being a backup recruiter or cult blocker. So he's pretty much vetted town.

 

Oh yeah and on the subject of a backup recruiter, I personally don't think there is one. First of all, for balance purposes, if we started out with mafia AND cult, it would be a tad imbalanced against town if there was a backup recruiter. And by a tad I mean a lot. I considered that if there WAS a backup recruiter, the cult's general recruiting ability would be an even day/odd day sort of thing, fitting in with your role.

 

But the problem is still who would be the backup. Jon Snow is really the only valid candidate, since there's never really a second in command that's talked about at the Night's Watch. I suppose perhaps Benjen Stark could maybe qualify, and possibly other minor characters in the Watch, but you and I both know that anyone besides Snow as backup would be a pretty big stretch.

[Nightstrike]

I think the cases on both Verbal and Basel seem promising. Basel does seem to have make some odd blocking choices. Verbal has argued against Ed, and that seems odd. I will have to think some more before I place a vote on anyone. I think I will end up voting one of those two this day phase.

[Red2111]

post from

 

 

 

Of course red bought me up Des she has been doing it constantly this game because i argued with her flip on NS. It still strikes me as odd that she pushed the NS lynch hardcore then when she died and was reborn she suddenly did a complete 180. Now days later she bought it up AGAIN to have a go at mish. She has been trying to back away from the push she gave that lynch ever since she came back in.

 

She smells rotten to me but I doubt anyone will back me in voting her. They haven't so far.

 

i'm not backing away from the push i had on Strike i own up to it and explained why i stepped away from continueing to push Strike. i think i was NKd N1 to help set up Strikes lynch.

 

 

also, why would i distance myself from the push on N1 when i had flipped town. as scum wouldn't it make more sense to keep on that trail, continue to push hard and use my previous flip to help my image.

 

 

you continueing to push this angle makes me mroe firm in my scum read of you

 

 

unvote

 

vote: dice

 

 

since you lot dont want to trust me on Mish

 

 

 

@Red: I actually did block Ed last night, for very much the same reasons as you mentioned. However, I guess it had no effect, since EP says he used his power on me. And I've had my internet back since Saturday afternoon, for which I'm quite grateful.

 

You've made some strange decisions in regards to who you've tried to block the last couple of nights. Verb seemed kinda unnecessary to block since EP blocked him plenty and it never averted a NK or anything, and Ed seems strange as well, since knowing that there was another blocker role out there that strongly distrusted you, trying to vet Ed by seeing if he lied and said he got a viewing prob wouldn't work.

 

You def earned some townie cred in my book personally for blocking and helping to lynch Razen, but these last couple of nights I think we could have made better use of your abilities tbh. But of course I could be wrong and a bit of randomness can occassionally help

 

now wait a minute Despo. did you just agree with me that Basell blocking Ed would be a good idea tonight but just FoS Basel for doing exactly that?

 

nice way to Flip flop, and major ping.

 

 

Doubt anyone will follow you down that road at this point. She's an unCC'ed major character, and a Doc at that, and her story adds up somewhat with Kaylee's claim. It's possible that they are both lying, but they are linked strongly enough that if one dies or something, it vets the other if they're town, or condemns the other if scum.

 

I just think Red got behind in the game, never finished her reread, so decided to rely on old reads that weren't really current with all the info we had established.

 

yes thats what happened. what i find interesting is that you're only focusing onf Town and Mafia, theres a possability one of us are cult, which woudl still cause us to remain un-CCd. another ping.

 

 

You keep talking about not trusting the LD view on EP because of verbiage used, but Snow made it very clear what verbiage he used before he died. Prob missed that as well

 

yes i did, and as i siad i have my reservations abotu LD's. they're a good role, but not concrete like a Finder.

 

 

He checked a statement that EP had made about never receiving notification that he was in the Night's Watch, and it checked out. EP thought it was a strange choice of a statement to check, I thought it was pretty clever as it doesn't really allow for an out if he either started the game as Night's Watch, or had been recruited. Only other possibility really is that EP is a silvertongue. I highly doubt that he would have that ability in addition to either being a backup recruiter or cult blocker. So he's pretty much vetted town.

 

understood. if he checked that, then i agree. my gut stll screams against EP and i'm not ignoring it but i'll focus on other thigns like i have been. this also clear Ed for the time being imo.

 

 

Oh yeah and on the subject of a backup recruiter, I personally don't think there is one. First of all, for balance purposes, if we started out with mafia AND cult, it would be a tad imbalanced against town if there was a backup recruiter. And by a tad I mean a lot. I considered that if there WAS a backup recruiter, the cult's general recruiting ability would be an even day/odd day sort of thing, fitting in with your role.

 

But the problem is still who would be the backup. Jon Snow is really the only valid candidate, since there's never really a second in command that's talked about at the Night's Watch. I suppose perhaps Benjen Stark could maybe qualify, and possibly other minor characters in the Watch, but you and I both know that anyone besides Snow as backup would be a pretty big stretch.

 

disagree about the back up, i'm not willignt write off the possability because i just dont know and its better to over asume abotut he cult than under assume. i do agree that if Jon Snow didn't start as the back up cult leader that its less likely the cult has a back up as he's the only character which makes sense. even Benjen is a hard stretch all things considered. and i agree that a Silver Tongue on the cult is over powered.

[Verbal32]

Where's the button that turns off the "cryptic responses"?

 

Can you verify whether or not you were blocked the night before last? Could possibly vet a couple of players, and your crypticness instead of being straitforth and answering questions that involve you aren't helping your case bub

 

Button doesn't exist.

 

I cannot verify if I was blocked. I have a 1-time power, and I have NOT used it yet. So blocking me when I do nothing won't get a response, and I therefore can't confirm whether the mod would give me a "you were blocked" response.

 

I obviously don't want to test that, as I don't want to be blocked the 1 time I get to use my ability. Either way, I think I should be cleared as not having direct influence on kills, as I've been RBed multiple time thus far.

[Verbal32]

This gaming the mod talk on whether backups exist is irrelevant. How do you know if it was baked into the setup, or if the mods decided to make an adjustment on the fly? While I don't agree with those types of adjustments, I'm not the mod and therefore can't (and shouldn't) try to assume.

 

My point is this: we don't know if cult retain their prior abilities and communication privileges. They could be infiltrated into multiple QTs at this point, if multiple QTs exist. They are just as dangerous as mafia with a NK because of that - they could be directly influencing roles that can kill (or block).

 

To write off one group and focus on the other is not good. I was playing Devil's Advocate if that wasn't obvious before - that's what I mean by "seeing the big picture".

 

I'm not sure exactly what direction I want to go in right now. If I can find a way for my lynch to help the town, I'll go for it; otherwise, I'll just wait for scum to NK me. It is difficult to make a decision on somebody when you take into consideration a cult. You second guess everything, and it causes problems. Meh.

[Red2111]

and for what its worth, Verb is on his town meta for me. which is why i'm not backing a lynch on him currently.

 

for me, the following are lynch choices for today. the others i'm not cool with lynching.

 

dice

BG

Misheru

Rand

Nightstrike

[Verbal32]

Red thinks I'm town. I'm screwed.

 

;-)

[bgrishinko]

Ha.

[keyholder21]

Official Vote Count:

 

Verb (2) - BG, Des

dice (1) - Red

Basel (1) - EP

 

Not Voting (8): Kaylee, Verb, NS, Dice, Rand, Mish, Ed, Basel

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

No deadline yet.

[Kaylee]

 

 

Of course red bought me up Des she has been doing it constantly this game because i argued with her flip on NS. It still strikes me as odd that she pushed the NS lynch hardcore then when she died and was reborn she suddenly did a complete 180. Now days later she bought it up AGAIN to have a go at mish. She has been trying to back away from the push she gave that lynch ever since she came back in.

 

She smells rotten to me but I doubt anyone will back me in voting her. They haven't so far.

 

Doubt anyone will follow you down that road at this point. She's an unCC'ed major character, and a Doc at that, and her story adds up somewhat with Kaylee's claim. It's possible that they are both lying, but they are linked strongly enough that if one dies or something, it vets the other if they're town, or condemns the other if scum.

 

 

 

 

But the problem is still who would be the backup. Jon Snow is really the only valid candidate, since there's never really a second in command that's talked about at the Night's Watch. I suppose perhaps Benjen Stark could maybe qualify, and possibly other minor characters in the Watch, but you and I both know that anyone besides Snow as backup would be a pretty big stretch.

I cut some stuff out since It's a long quote and I'm only addressing a small part of it.

 

The bold: I agree for the same reason, also it makes sense with my role.

The underlined: I also agree with this.

[dicetosser1]

my problem with red has been her jumping around. and she did it again one minute she is voting mish then mish is third on her list. I think its john snow who wears the title of scummiest cop ever (could be wrong) so maybe red is just the scummiest doc ever. shrugs. Something about her bothers me it could just be left over bad feelings from when she was bulldogging me but she is like an itch i cant scratch. i just feel like there is something off.

[hazelkrs1]

I think the cases on both Verbal and Basel seem promising. Basel does seem to have make some odd blocking choices. Verbal has argued against Ed, and that seems odd. I will have to think some more before I place a vote on anyone. I think I will end up voting one of those two this day phase.

 

Fencesit much? Man I wish Cyan had just stayed in the game and taken her medicine.

 

@Red: I actually did block Ed last night, for very much the same reasons as you mentioned. However, I guess it had no effect, since EP says he used his power on me. And I've had my internet back since Saturday afternoon, for which I'm quite grateful.

 

You've made some strange decisions in regards to who you've tried to block the last couple of nights. Verb seemed kinda unnecessary to block since EP blocked him plenty and it never averted a NK or anything, and Ed seems strange as well, since knowing that there was another blocker role out there that strongly distrusted you, trying to vet Ed by seeing if he lied and said he got a viewing prob wouldn't work.

 

You def earned some townie cred in my book personally for blocking and helping to lynch Razen, but these last couple of nights I think we could have made better use of your abilities tbh. But of course I could be wrong and a bit of randomness can occassionally help

 

now wait a minute Despo. did you just agree with me that Basell blocking Ed would be a good idea tonight but just FoS Basel for doing exactly that?

 

nice way to Flip flop, and major ping.

 

I agreed that it could be a good plan to implement. What Basel did he did on his own, without arranging things in advance with others to make sure the plan worked. As I mentioned in my post, he knew that EP, who had a Blocking ability, did not trust him at all and could potentially blobk him. Which EP did. So basically Basel kind of wasted the attempt to vet Ed because he didn't talk things trough in advance.

 

Obviously letting other people know about how you plan to submit your NA is a little risky to say the least, but at the very least by doing so you prevent other townies from disrupting the plan somehow.

 

And for the record, I didn't FOS Basel for the move. I questioned whether or not it was a good move, but I didn't try to make it seem like he was scummy for doing so.

 

I do generally agree with you on Dice tho, and could easily move my vote to him.

 

This gaming the mod talk on whether backups exist is irrelevant. How do you know if it was baked into the setup, or if the mods decided to make an adjustment on the fly? While I don't agree with those types of adjustments, I'm not the mod and therefore can't (and shouldn't) try to assume.

 

My point is this: we don't know if cult retain their prior abilities and communication privileges. They could be infiltrated into multiple QTs at this point, if multiple QTs exist. They are just as dangerous as mafia with a NK because of that - they could be directly influencing roles that can kill (or block).

 

To write off one group and focus on the other is not good. I was playing Devil's Advocate if that wasn't obvious before - that's what I mean by "seeing the big picture".

 

I'm not sure exactly what direction I want to go in right now. If I can find a way for my lynch to help the town, I'll go for it; otherwise, I'll just wait for scum to NK me. It is difficult to make a decision on somebody when you take into consideration a cult. You second guess everything, and it causes problems. Meh.

 

I would disagree with you on the principle that almost nothing that is being debated in a mafia game is irrelevant, since info can be obtained in a number of diff ways, but you do make a fairly good point that the cult could have their fingers in diff pies and might be able to influence more parts of the game than we thought. So we shouldn't discount them or lower the prioirity on finding them too much, whether there is a backup recruiter or not.

 

That being said, this could also easily be you trying to divert attention back on to cult and away from mafia, which I suspect you to be. And that line "just wait for the scum to NK me" is all kinds of scummy.

 

Pretty sure you're the way to go today, your cryptic responses haven't really done it for me, you have neglected to give specific thoughts on other players in quite some time, and the role your claiming just doesn't seem quite that valuable to town, w/e it is, or you wouldn't be so carefree about mafia getting to kill you before you use it.

 

And as I've mentioned many times, the wifom with the connection between you and Darthe will continue to plague us until we either have a coroner's report on you or a viewing (speaking of which, anyone heard from Ed in a while? When did he last post?). In fact, I'm not even sure a viewing on you would suffice, since Darthe putting his neck on the line for you could make a lot of sense if you were a GF.

 

Vote Verb peeps

[hazelkrs1]

my problem with red has been her jumping around. and she did it again one minute she is voting mish then mish is third on her list. I think its john snow who wears the title of scummiest cop ever (could be wrong) so maybe red is just the scummiest doc ever. shrugs. Something about her bothers me it could just be left over bad feelings from when she was bulldogging me but she is like an itch i cant scratch. i just feel like there is something off.

 

Red normally jumps around a bit, I'd say that's a bit of a nulltell for her. Regardless, she is an unCC'ed Doc who's claim is supported by Kaylee's claim as well. Really doesn't make any sense to question her alignment, unless you think she was recruited.

 

And btw, Snow def doesn't get the title of scummiest Cop. That award most certainly goes to David, for his marvelous work in the Smash Bros game.

[Gabriel Kross]

I'd be willing to consolidate on Verb later but I think Basel needs some pressure.

[Basel Gill]

I agreed that it could be a good plan to implement. What Basel did he did on his own, without arranging things in advance with others to make sure the plan worked. As I mentioned in my post, he knew that EP, who had a Blocking ability, did not trust him at all and could potentially blobk him. Which EP did. So basically Basel kind of wasted the attempt to vet Ed because he didn't talk things trough in advance.

 

Well, I could always try it again tonight, although EP sounds set on blocking me every night that I remain alive.

[Basel Gill]

And I can go with consolidation on Verbal.