Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[john smith_17251]

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

[NitroS]

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

Its mentioned that he can nearly hold as much as rand, so im guessing very similar to taim.

[The Fisher King]

The comparison between Logain and Taim is moot now. Now that Taim got the Chosen-Bestowed ''Power Up'' you are now talking apples and oranges. Taim would decimate Logain now days without blinking an eye. What I would have been interested in seeing is an ''honest'' face-off between the two much earlier when you still had a horserace made up of apples and apples. I suspect in THAT situation that Logain would have come out as our winnner.

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

The comparison between Logain and Taim is moot now. Now that Taim got the Chosen-Bestowed ''Power Up'' you are now talking apples and oranges. Taim would decimate Logain now days without blinking an eye. What I would have been interested in seeing is an ''honest'' face-off between the two much earlier when you still had a horserace made up of apples and apples. I suspect in THAT situation that Logain would have come out as our winnner.

 

 

Fish

I don't think the Forsaken actually get more powerful in the amount of the Power that they can channel when they're designated as 'Chosen'. Strength in the Power is a large factor in being named Chosen in the first place. He may have an advantage in a square-off if the DO gives him access to the TP, though. In fact, there is some evidence (WH Prologue) to suggest that Taim had already been granted that before his official announcement.

[Entreri]

This is great. I hope they release 2 more full chapters before the book.

 

Too bad the book is not coming in December.

[The Fisher King]

Sidster Old Mate, I'm sure you are right, but I always got the impression that you got SOME kind of Level Up when you officially swore to the DO - otherwise, what benefit to doing so other than the fancy title - specially in a post-cleansing RandLand?

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

I guess there's being on equal footing with other Chosen save Moridin, and also the Chosen Mark (unlike Alviarin') that allow them to order Shadowspawn to do their bidding. It's one step closer to Nae'blis, you're higher in the DF pecking order, etc. I have to imagine it's a huge step up since there's been a grand total of one person in the entire 3rd Age that's been given that distinction.

[The Fisher King]

You get a Gold Watch when you retire and you get to learn The Secret Handshake!!!

 

 

Fish

[Agitel]

You get a Gold Watch when you retire and you get to learn The Secret Handshake!!!

 

 

Fish

 

Let's not forget the promise of eternal life and a dominion of your own.

[The Wolf King]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

[The Fisher King]

LOL..if Rand's "expert" handling of the Black Tower had begun AFTER Brandon Sanderson's watch began, Sanderson would have been kidnapped and dragged across hot coals.

 

 

Fish

[NitroS]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

 

same i think logain has a bigger role to play then simply logain vs taim i think androl will play the bigger role with the black tower dispute. Logains glory will be something to do with rand. "glory that no man can dream of" i could certainly dream of fixing the dark tower.

[Kestrel]

The problem with a continuously recycling Wheel of Time, if you're a Chosen, is that you will never ever get to be anything better than what you are/were. Demandred will always fall short. Lanfear will always overreach. Asmodean will always wimp out.

 

Sometimes they'll try harder, sometimes they'll give up sooner, but no one will get the hamster wheel to reverse direction or fall down. Did you ever play with a gyroscope when you were a kid and feel how hard it was to tip a spinning wheel on its side?

 

Which leads me to this...

 

Maybe Rand's near-impossible dangerous solution WON'T be to stop the Wheel from turning. Maybe Rand's solution will be to alter the axis of the Wheel. The wheel keeps going, but starts carving a new path with new beginnings and new outcomes. The conflagration between the Good Guys and the Dark One will cause the Dark One to rear up and r-o-l-l-o-v-e-r... oops...

 

Maybe that new path will have winters and summers which last decades, and seven kingdoms, and dragons, and people who worship trees, and an HBO series...

[The Wolf King]

The problem with a continuously recycling Wheel of Time, if you're a Chosen, is that you will never ever get to be anything better than what you are/were. Demandred will always fall short. Lanfear will always overreach. Asmodean will always wimp out.

 

Sometimes they'll try harder, sometimes they'll give up sooner, but no one will get the hamster wheel to reverse direction or fall down. Did you ever play with a gyroscope when you were a kid and feel how hard it was to tip a spinning wheel on its side?

 

Which leads me to this...

 

Maybe Rand's near-impossible dangerous solution WON'T be to stop the Wheel from turning. Maybe Rand's solution will be to alter the axis of the Wheel. The wheel keeps going, but starts carving a new path with new beginnings and new outcomes. The conflagration between the Good Guys and the Dark One will cause the Dark One to rear up and r-o-l-l-o-v-e-r... oops...

 

Maybe that new path will have winters and summers which last decades, and seven kingdoms, and dragons, and people who worship trees, and an HBO series...

 

lol I almost spit out my tea.

[Amandera]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

[b3arz3rg3r]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

[MasterAblar]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

 

Technically, Rand is an Ashaman. And he said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. Still I imagine Logain will be the one to take care of it in the end.

[he who comes with a bong]

Sidster Old Mate, I'm sure you are right, but I always got the impression that you got SOME kind of Level Up when you officially swore to the DO - otherwise, what benefit to doing so other than the fancy title - specially in a post-cleansing RandLand?

 

 

Fish

 

Well there is the immortality aspect of swearing your soul over to the Do, and protection from the taint, but thats moot now any ways.

[Vardar]

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

 

Logain is more powerful than Taim. Logain is most likely one step below Rand, who is as powerful as a man can get. Taim held near as much power as Rand before Rand reached his full potential. Logain after Rand has maxed. Thus Logain is more powerful.

[Sharaman]

Excellent We'll have the relative strength of channelers debate all over again.

Just to stir the pot, we don't know how powerful either Taim or Logain is - the only way a man can judge another man's strength is by the amount of saidin held.

We don't know that if Logain or Taim was holding to full capacity and nor do we know if both are maxed out in terms of potential.

[Terez]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Most readers have also been frustrated with his willful ignorance regarding Taim, but I don't think it's very likely that he will make up for it somehow by dealing with Taim in the end. This is Logain's territory, for all he'll have help and he'll likely accomplish other things.

[Kestrel]

Maybe Rand's near-impossible dangerous solution WON'T be to stop the Wheel from turning. Maybe Rand's solution will be to alter the axis of the Wheel. The wheel keeps going, but starts carving a new path with new beginnings and new outcomes. The conflagration between the Good Guys and the Dark One will cause the Dark One to rear up and r-o-l-l-o-v-e-r... oops...

 

Maybe that new path will have winters and summers which last decades, and seven kingdoms, and dragons, and people who worship trees, and an HBO series...

 

lol I almost spit out my tea.

The post-conflagration connection was established in George Martin's work two years before RJ's untimely passing.

 

One of the Maesters of the Citadel is Archmaester Rigney, who wrote that history is a wheel with all actions possible of being repeated over and over again due to the nature of man. And in the Southern part of Westeros we find Lord Trebor ("Robert" reversed) Jordayne of the Tor, whose family crest is a quill on a checkered shield with the motto, "Let it be written."

[Vardar]

Excellent We'll have the relative strength of channelers debate all over again.

Just to stir the pot, we don't know how powerful either Taim or Logain is - the only way a man can judge another man's strength is by the amount of saidin held.

We don't know that if Logain or Taim was holding to full capacity and nor do we know if both are maxed out in terms of potential.

 

 

They should both be maxed, considering the amont of time they've been channeling. Perhaps Logain soon after going to the tower, but Taim was never gentled so has been channeling for a good while.

 

Did I miss the debate earlier or something?

[Vardar]

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

[b3arz3rg3r]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

 

Technically, Rand is an Ashaman. And he said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. Still I imagine Logain will be the one to take care of it in the end.

 

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

 

Logain is more powerful than Taim. Logain is most likely one step below Rand, who is as powerful as a man can get. Taim held near as much power as Rand before Rand reached his full potential. Logain after Rand has maxed. Thus Logain is more powerful.

 

This is really iffy. We've only seen them both compared to Rand and not to each other and both were described as a bit weaker than Rand there's really no telling how strong they are in relation to each other. Especially since we didn't get an objective statement we got Rand's estimate of their powers and Rand was pretty insecure around Asha'man.

 

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

 

I don't know, ignorance perhaps? Cause I'm pretty sure Rand said that the DO wouldn't be free the instant the seals were broken. The strength of his touch on the world would definitely increase significantly though.