Androl's PoV

[Wheel of Thyme]

Ive not read the prologue, but I have read all the spoilers I can regarding it. Apparently Androl is lighting many candles to ward off the darkness he so fears. Could his shadow given madness be his salvation? It is known that Myrddrraal need shadows to travel within; Androl's light keeps the shadows at bay. Thoughts? I know RJ liked the idea that evil contained within it the seeds of its own destruction, but this is sort of sweet.

[Durinax]

Ive not read the prologue, but I have read all the spoilers I can regarding it. Apparently Androl is lighting many candles to ward off the darkness he so fears. Could his shadow given madness be his salvation? It is known that Myrddrraal need shadows to travel within; Androl's light keeps the shadows at bay. Thoughts? I know RJ liked the idea that evil contained within it the seeds of its own destruction, but this is sort of sweet.

interesting, but I would say not

during the Isam pov we see a 13x13 being formed a long ways from the BT, I would presume it is for BT men

[The Fisher King]

That was my read on it,too, Durinax.

 

 

Fish

[Rufae]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

[Suttree]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

 

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

[Rufae]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

 

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

I don't think it is because of their condition. They have a plan to escape if they wanted by hoping the wall during the next storm. No Andy made the choice not to seek help from Rand (because what will they do once he is gone after the LB) and not to seek help from the WT (because then the BT would be held in their debt and be held as 2nd class).

[b3arz3rg3r]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

 

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

Androl's point is that the Asha'man have to clean up their own messes and not run to someone else to do it for them. If the Asha'man want to become an independant and strong organisation after the LB they can't rely on the Aes Sedai, because by begging their help they would subjugate themselves under their authority. And if the Dragon does it for them they lose this chance to learn to stand on their own feet. Rand won't be there after the LB the Asha'man have to become strong enough to exist without the Dragon propping them up.

 

If the Asha'man under Logain's leadership overthrow Taim themselves they'll be on a good way to become an organisation on equal footing with the Aes Sedai. They have to become as strong as the Aes Sedai or should they ever rejoin the female channellers they won't be able to stand on equal footing to the women.

 

Edit: I got ninja'd

[Suttree]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

I don't think it is because of their condition. They have a plan to escape if they wanted by hoping the wall during the next storm. No Andy made the choice not to seek help from Rand (because what will they do once he is gone after the LB) and not to seek help from the WT (because then the BT would be held in their debt and be held as 2nd class).

 

Thanks Sam. Only read the prologue once pretty quickly so some of it is fuzzy. I don't think an escape is that realistic however. Certainly they wouldn't just be able to hop a wall in a storm. Also we know the AS are going to play a fair sized role at the BT so not sure how that squares with them doing it on their own. Shrug.

 

I've always thought this 2nd fiddle stuff is overblown. They will make a name for themselves at TG and be more than a match to rule side by side with the WT.

[b3arz3rg3r]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

I don't think it is because of their condition. They have a plan to escape if they wanted by hoping the wall during the next storm. No Andy made the choice not to seek help from Rand (because what will they do once he is gone after the LB) and not to seek help from the WT (because then the BT would be held in their debt and be held as 2nd class).

 

Thanks Sam. Only read the prologue once pretty quickly so some of it is fuzzy. I don't think an escape is that realistic however. Certainly they wouldn't just be able to hop a wall in a storm. Also we know the AS are going to play a role at the BT so not sure how that squares with them doing it on their own. Shrug.

 

Well, since men are often quite good with earth I would expect they could either dig a tunnel or break the wall so I don't think the wall is a big obstacle. The guards are.

 

There's a difference between asking the WT for help and asking individual sisters who are stuck in the BT like Pevara or those sisters already bonded to Asha'man. The bonded sisters are already as much part of the BT as the bonded men are part of the WT. And depending on how many bonded sisters are there during the fighting we'll have to see how significant a role those AS will play. If it's just Pevara and that other one I would consider their contribution negligible. Two sisters among hundreds of Asha'man? They'd be a footnote in the fighting.

[Suttree]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

I don't think it is because of their condition. They have a plan to escape if they wanted by hoping the wall during the next storm. No Andy made the choice not to seek help from Rand (because what will they do once he is gone after the LB) and not to seek help from the WT (because then the BT would be held in their debt and be held as 2nd class).

 

Thanks Sam. Only read the prologue once pretty quickly so some of it is fuzzy. I don't think an escape is that realistic however. Certainly they wouldn't just be able to hop a wall in a storm. Also we know the AS are going to play a role at the BT so not sure how that squares with them doing it on their own. Shrug.

 

Well, since men are often quite good with earth I would expect they could either dig a tunnel or break the wall so I don't think the wall is a big obstacle. The guards are.

 

There's a difference between asking the WT for help and asking individual sisters who are stuck in the BT like Pevara or those sisters already bonded to Asha'man. The bonded sisters are already as much part of the BT as the bonded men are part of the WT. And depending on how many bonded sisters are there during the fighting we'll have to see how significant a role those AS will play. If it's just Pevara and that other one I would consider their contribution negligible. Two sisters among hundreds of Asha'man? They'd be a footnote in the fighting.

 

What about all the Salidar sisters out front?

 

As for the escape yes, the wall obviously would not be an issue but I find tunneling under with all the guards highly unlikely as well. Taim has that place on lock.

[b3arz3rg3r]

I found it interesting that Andy decided not to run to the Dragon Reborn for help and not to run to the White Tower for help. Now I wonder what kind of plan he will devise to topple M'Hael.

IIRC the point is they are stuck. They can't run for help.

 

I don't think it is because of their condition. They have a plan to escape if they wanted by hoping the wall during the next storm. No Andy made the choice not to seek help from Rand (because what will they do once he is gone after the LB) and not to seek help from the WT (because then the BT would be held in their debt and be held as 2nd class).

 

Thanks Sam. Only read the prologue once pretty quickly so some of it is fuzzy. I don't think an escape is that realistic however. Certainly they wouldn't just be able to hop a wall in a storm. Also we know the AS are going to play a role at the BT so not sure how that squares with them doing it on their own. Shrug.

 

Well, since men are often quite good with earth I would expect they could either dig a tunnel or break the wall so I don't think the wall is a big obstacle. The guards are.

 

There's a difference between asking the WT for help and asking individual sisters who are stuck in the BT like Pevara or those sisters already bonded to Asha'man. The bonded sisters are already as much part of the BT as the bonded men are part of the WT. And depending on how many bonded sisters are there during the fighting we'll have to see how significant a role those AS will play. If it's just Pevara and that other one I would consider their contribution negligible. Two sisters among hundreds of Asha'man? They'd be a footnote in the fighting.

 

What about all the Salidar sisters out front?

 

As for the escape yes, the wall obviously would not be an issue but I find tunneling under with all the guards highly unlikely as well. Taim has that place on lock.

 

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

[Suttree]

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

 

Yeah you could be right. Should be interesting to see, I just find it improbable that a battle on that scale could jump off and the sisters wouldn't be involved. There are more than enough ways to get them together with the Ashaman. Either way I have been waiting for this section for a long time!

 

I really need to read that prologue again btw...

[b3arz3rg3r]

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

 

Yeah you could be right. Should be interesting to see, I just find it improbable that a battle on that scale could jump off and the sisters wouldn't be involved. There are more than enough ways to get them together with the Ashaman. Either way I have been waiting for this section for a long time!

 

I really need to read that prologue again btw...

 

Do you know how many sisters are outside the walls right now? All fourty seven which intend to bond an Asha'man? Or less?

 

I agree if the fighting gets out of the walls the AS will involve themselves. They would hardly stand by and watch as Asha'man fight each other to the death.

[MasterAblar]

Androl's issue is that most of the Ashaman currently at the BT are "neutral". They don't know that Taim is a darkfriend. He has to get them to join his side, otherwise he's outnumbered by Taim's faction. Getting Aes Sedai involved is a sure way to turn everyone against him. Androl thinks that Rand isn't going to help them because he thinks they can handle themselves, and therefore he won't ask for help. But Naeff is going to show up at some point or another. If he can sneak into the BT, he can sneak out, and there's probably around 40% of the Ashaman currently out of the BT, and not one of those is a darkfriend. So Androl has to first of all convince the majority of Ashaman that Taim must be opposed and by doing so reverse the tables on him. And then he has to hope that the Ashaman outside of the BT return, perhaps with Logain.

[MasterAblar]

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

 

Yeah you could be right. Should be interesting to see, I just find it improbable that a battle on that scale could jump off and the sisters wouldn't be involved. There are more than enough ways to get them together with the Ashaman. Either way I have been waiting for this section for a long time!

 

I really need to read that prologue again btw...

 

Do you know how many sisters are outside the walls right now? All fourty seven which intend to bond an Asha'man? Or less?

 

I agree if the fighting gets out of the walls the AS will involve themselves. They would hardly stand by and watch as Asha'man fight each other to the death.

 

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

[b3arz3rg3r]

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

 

Yeah you could be right. Should be interesting to see, I just find it improbable that a battle on that scale could jump off and the sisters wouldn't be involved. There are more than enough ways to get them together with the Ashaman. Either way I have been waiting for this section for a long time!

 

I really need to read that prologue again btw...

 

Do you know how many sisters are outside the walls right now? All fourty seven which intend to bond an Asha'man? Or less?

 

I agree if the fighting gets out of the walls the AS will involve themselves. They would hardly stand by and watch as Asha'man fight each other to the death.

 

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Nah, I just realized that I had completely forgotten how many AS there were and could only remember that 47 is the number of bonds Rand granted to Egwene. That's why I asked. If there are only 12 then I'd say if the fighting boils over the walls the AS should run like hell.

[MasterAblar]

The Salidar sisters out front won't take part unless the fighting boils over the walls would be my guess. For one Androl refuses to approach them for the reasons already mentioned in the thread, but also there are serious practical issues. How would they distinguish between Taim's faction, Logain's and bystanders? I doubt Androl made hundreds of those bracers or that they would be much use if the fighting started at night. And would the Asha'man trust a group of unknown sisters or would they deal with them as they did with Toveine's suicide squad by shielding them and asking questions later? The Salidar sisters are seriously outnumbered and as Androl told Pevara the Asha'man are better weapons even if the AS have far more experience. In duels the AS may win but in battle they would get torn apart by all kinds of destructive weaves.

 

Yeah you could be right. Should be interesting to see, I just find it improbable that a battle on that scale could jump off and the sisters wouldn't be involved. There are more than enough ways to get them together with the Ashaman. Either way I have been waiting for this section for a long time!

 

I really need to read that prologue again btw...

 

Do you know how many sisters are outside the walls right now? All fourty seven which intend to bond an Asha'man? Or less?

 

I agree if the fighting gets out of the walls the AS will involve themselves. They would hardly stand by and watch as Asha'man fight each other to the death.

 

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Nah, I just realized that I had completely forgotten how many AS there were and could only remember that 47 is the number of bonds Rand granted to Egwene. That's why I asked. If there are only 12 then I'd say if the fighting boils over the walls the AS should run like hell.

 

I know I would. "Hey you want to join in this huge battle of half-mad, extremely destuctive, living weapons, a number of which are darkfriends?" "No I'm good I think I'll pass."

[Suttree]

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

[Mulk]

maybe we unconciously grouped the Salidar Aes Sedai with the Tower Aes Sedai who were already there? I say we because I thought the same.

[MasterAblar]

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

[thisguy]

You have... what.... 50 or 51 from the WT and then another 6 from the tower (Reds).

 

What Salidar women have been bonded to the Ashaman? I'm drawing a blank.

[Suttree]

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

 

I realized that the description of the camp with it's guards and large amount of fires when Nyn went to get the bond made it seem larger than just 12 to me. Nyn had to be told what part of the camp Myrelle was in. You wouldn't think that would be the case if the party was that small.

 

@thisguy

The Salidar women are those Egwene sent to bond Ashaman, they have not been bonded...

[thisguy]

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

 

I realized that the description of the camp with it's guards and large amount of fires when Nyn went to get the bond made it seem larger than just 12 to me. Nyn had to be told what part of the camp Myrelle was in. You wouldn't think that would be the case if the party was that small.

 

@thisguy

The Salidar women are those Egwene sent to bond Ashaman, they have not been bonded...

Ah! Thanks. Haven't gotten to it my reread and have no memory of them being sent. Rand just killed Graendal and the Seanchan are attacking the WT.

[MasterAblar]

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

There's 47 AS ouside of the BT? All I found is that there was one from each ajah, so 7, along with Myrelle, Nisao, Theodrin, Faolain, and Nuhel. That makes 12. I don't think the rebels could afford to send 47 of theirs to the BT, nor is it a very good idea. The BT might feel threatened with such a large number.

 

Really only 12? For some reason I always assumed more. Don't can't remember what I was basing that on however.

 

That's all I could find on wot encyclopedia. There might be more but I can't imagine there are too many either. The WT is in the middle of a rebellion and like I said, the BT probably won't take kindly to like 30 Aes Sedai camping right outside.

 

I realized that the description of the camp with it's guards and large amount of fires when Nyn went to get the bond made it seem larger than just 12 to me. Nyn had to be told what part of the camp Myrelle was in. You wouldn't think that would be the case if the party was that small.

 

@thisguy

The Salidar women are those Egwene sent to bond Ashaman, they have not been bonded...

 

Linda only has about 12 Aes Sedai too. There might be more. But in any case Taim probably has like 150-200 men with him, all extremely dangerous. 12 Aes Sedai or 30 Aes Sedai aren't going to be enough, even if Androl was willing to ask them, especially since the Ashaman don't know how to link anyway. I think the Ashaman are simply going to have to deal with this on their own, just like the WT had to deal with the BA on their own.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Androl's point was that they shouldn't run to the Aes Sedai for help, not that they won't take help from them.

 

There is not much doubt that Aes Sedai will be involved. Pevara is already, and most likely the Salidar lot will, at least once the Lightning starts falling.

 

Androl was saying that they need to unify the Black Tower, to drive out the corruption themselves. It must be the Asha'man that decide their own fates.

 

I don't think he is adverse to Aes Sedai help. He will take all of the help he can get.

 

What he won't do is run away from the Black Tower, asking the Aes Sedai or the Dragon Reborn to sort things out for them, which is different from using the Sisters to help drive Taim out.