So, a Dreadlord walks into a bar... [AMOL Prologue spoilers]

[Hopefire]

Isam sees a woman enter the bar in the Town. He assumes she's one of the Chosen, and is described as "a pretty woman, dressed in black trimmed with red." She also has a "slim figure and a delicate face." He doesn't recognize her as one of the Chosen. She also looked at her reflection in the cup, indicating that she might not be used to her current face. She refers to Rand as Lews Therin. Who is she?

 

 

The biggest possibilities:

 

Cyndane/Lanfear

Pro: It's possible that Isam might not recognize her new face. Her new body is pretty, and she has been wearing red and black. She would definitely refer to Rand as Lews Therin.

Con: This clashes with her appearance at the end of TOM; whether she was lying or telling the truth, her mission there appears at odds with the mission of this Chosen. Her figure is also more buxom - Graendal commented on her impressive bosom - and her silver hair would have been notable. Moridin also seems to refer to her "the one who is punished most" in the prologue; that may indicate that her visit to Rand was real. It's also possible that her visit to Rand occurred AFTER that moment in the prologue.

 

Hessalam/Graendal

Pro: She wouldn't be recognizable to Isam in her new body, and she's certainly vain enough to change her appearance to be pretty again. She would refer to Rand as Lews Therin. The Chosen seems familiar with Isam, which could indicate Graendal. She might examine her new appearence because she's trying to decide what she'll look like when she has the freedom to decide her appearance. Being right under Moridin's leash, with Moridin right there it might make sense for her to be the one in the town.

Con: She hasn't been wearing black and red (she wore a yellow dress in her definite appearance). Would Moridin really let her change her appearance already? She would have had to change on the street.

 

Moghedien

Pro: Likes deception. Might not have wanted to be recognized by Isam, and she's used disguises casually before.

Cons: She doesn't seem to have been working directly for Moridin at the time of the event.

 

Moridin

Pro: He was right there. He always dresses in red and black. He's familiar with Isam. He definitely could disguise himself as a woman. Isam describes "her" as being hard as Moridin.

Con: There's no evidence that Moridin is a cross dresser.

 

 

 

 

The Far Fetched:

 

M'Hael

Pro: He dresses in red and black, he's one of the Chosen now. He probably could disguise himself as a woman.

Con: Like Moridin, there's no evidence that he's a cross dresser.

 

Verin

Pro: If the Dark One brought her back, she'd have a new body. Isam only assumes she's one of the Chosen, but Verin could very well be a high ranking dreadlord delivering the message directly from Moridin. The Dark One might not know she was playing for the other team. It'd be hilariously awesome if Verin survived all this due to the Dark One not realizing that she's a traitor. She might be able to bring the "hard as Moridin" attitude.

Con: The Dark One probably should have realized she's been playing for the other team all along. Not one of the Chosen. We're probably not going to see something this hilariously awesome.

 

Alanna

Pro: She's a woman, and might be on Team Dark. She might even be in the area.

Con: She probably can't bring the "hard as Moridin" attitude. Slayer should recognize her from the Two Rivers. Not one of the Chosen.

 

Alviarin:

Pro: The highest ranking Black Ajah, one step below the Chosen. Is likely to be in the area. Could be working for Moridin directly without being in a mind trap.

Con: Not one of the Chosen. Not likely to be as hard as Moridin. Would have a notable Aes Sedai face.

 

 

 

Based on all of the available information, I think that it's clear that it's Moridin in a dress.

[thisguy]

Both Cyndane and Moghedien show up at a Forsaken party in KoD with Moridin. The two ladies are wearing black with red trim.

[MarkDiLillo]

It could have been Graendal, and some evidence does indeed point strongly towards that...however I think it is an obvious Cyndane.

[Neophyte]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

This feels like arguing about "Who killed Asmodean?" all over again. Cyndane/Lanfear is pretty clearly being held somewhere else against her will (by the Eelfinn/as the "most punished one") and we just saw her situation (Moiraine tackling her through the doorway/her appearance in Rand's dream) and yet folks are sure that it is her ... when it seems .. dare I? ... intuitively obvious that it's the Graeffalump.

 

Sorry guys. I just had to.

[Sasha Grayes]

allana.

[Suttree]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

Is it wrong that this still makes me laugh a couple days in?

[Barid Bel Medar]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

Is it wrong that this still makes me laugh a couple days in?

 

Not at all.

 

 

I'm undecided. Both Cyndane and Graeffalump are plausible, although I tend to lean towards the latter, Lanfear never wanted anyone else to kill Rand, she actively protects him against others. She wants to kill him herself, if she wants him dead at all.

[Luckers]

Graeffalump doesn't fit chronologically in the original context of this PoV--not even as Graendal. I'm talking about description either, but motive and the hatred expressed do not match her interests at that time, and it all goes expressly against her instructions.

[yoniy0]

What about Demandred? The hardness fits with what we know of him being the Shadow's main player in AMoL (perhaps excepting Moridin). Then there's the suspicion that he might've been wearing Sammael in KoD.

 

Side note: whoever it was referred to Rand as "Al'Thor" once, then switched to "Lews Therin".

[lolguy26]

i think its lanfear

[Barid Bel Medar]

What about Demandred? The hardness fits with what we know of him being the Shadow's main player in AMoL (perhaps excepting Moridin). Then there's the suspicion that he might've been wearing Sammael in KoD.

 

 

It is possible, but I don't think he would, considering what we see in Moghedien's PoV where he stares down each of the Chosen - including Moridin- saying noone can kill al'Thor but him.

 

Moghedien also thinks that Demandred had been changing recently and has become more or less obsessed with killing Rand with his own hands.

 

His very "requirement" for helping the Shadow seems to be meeting Rand on the field. I think that he would turn on the Shadow if anyone did otherwise.

[Hopefire]

So, the problem is that the physical description seems to rule out both Cyndane and Hessalam, and Moghedien's POV later doesn't hint at the earlier meeting. BS seems to have deliberately hidden the identity of the woman, and none of the three surviving female Chosen seem to fit.

 

I feel that with the available information, it's most likely to be Moridin in a dress, or Dreadlord Verin.

[yoniy0]

His very "requirement" for helping the Shadow seems to be meeting Rand on the field. I think that he would turn on the Shadow if anyone did otherwise.

I addressed this in the other thread (you've read my post, haven't you?). Beside the fact that the Samma N'sei were simply accompanying Isam and can well have orders to report back, there's a big difference between letting someone kill Rand on their own, and sending someone yourself. You can be the one to kill him even if it's not done with your own hands, and I'm not convinced Demandred is now beyond that reasoning (considering it's a new development that he even cares one way or the other how Rand dies).

[Barid Bel Medar]

His very "requirement" for helping the Shadow seems to be meeting Rand on the field. I think that he would turn on the Shadow if anyone did otherwise.

I addressed this in the other thread (you've read my post, haven't you?). Beside the fact that the Samma N'sei were simply accompanying Isam and can well have orders to report back, there's a big difference between letting someone kill Rand on their own, and sending someone yourself. You can be the one to kill him even if it's not done with your own hands, and I'm not convinced Demandred is now beyond that reasoning (considering it's a new development that he even cares one way or the other how Rand dies).

 

I agree with that reasoning, and it is still plausible, just saying that it is less likely than the other options.

 

 

However, it does have merits.

 

If you were disguising yourself, the best disguise would be to masquerade as someone from the opposite gender.

It could be the reason "she" looked at the reflection with disugst - although I don't recall Demandred ever having a serious problem with women, and I don't see why he would be troubled about a disguise.

 

He would definitely be revolted at having to use Isam, he would much rather kill him himself. But perhaps circumstances make it the only option.

 

Not sure what the go is with the Samma N'Sei, but I would say you had to have much influence to order them, and the same with Slayer. Aside from Moridin, Demandred is the most likely to have that power, the others have fallen into disfavour. (although perhaps they will obey any Chosen)

 

Still, I didn't get the vibe of it being Demandred, I feel others have more evidence for them, but I won't be surprised if it is Demandred.

 

 

edit: I am afraid I must have missed your post regarding this (which thread was it?) I had like 90 notifications from when I last checked, so I must have missed a few.

[yoniy0]

Nah, it was days ago. Doesn't matter, either way.

 

I was wondering if anyone has any clue regarding the timeline and this Town scene. I mean, where does it stand with regard to Taim's coming-out party and the pre-FoM night (Mat's eating a rabbit, Caemlyn's burning, Aviendha's night with Rand, Egenin's meeting with Nynaeve, Rand's dream of Cyndane, Perrin's suspected trip to the BT, and finally Rand's and Perrin's little talk).

[Barid Bel Medar]

I was wondering if anyone has any clue regarding the timeline and this Town scene. I mean, where does it stand with regard to Taim's coming-out party and the pre-FoM night (Mat's eating a rabbit, Caemlyn's burning, Aviendha's night with Rand, Egenin's meeting with Nynaeve, Rand's dream of Cyndane, Perrin's suspected trip to the BT, and finally Rand's and Perrin's little talk).

 

I believe the only indicator we have is that it is after his battle with Perrin. He has the wound Perrin gave him, and wants to continue the hunt to kill him which Graendal ordered. I would have thought that it would be fairly close to the "current" time. It wouldn't be hard to find Rand now he is at Merrlior and I would say the Samma N'Sei can weave Gateways.

 

Now that I think on it, I wouldn't be surprised if the attack comes in Chapter 1. Just remembering Brandon's comment on there being 2 near deaths in a scene you wouldn't expect. How about Perrin and Rand talking in their tent in the middle of the Borderland armies and Slayer drops by with a few of the Samma N'Sei?

[yoniy0]

Now that I think on it, I wouldn't be surprised if the attack comes in Chapter 1. Just remembering Brandon's comment on there being 2 near deaths in a scene you wouldn't expect. How about Perrin and Rand talking in their tent in the middle of the Borderland armies and Slayer drops by with a few of the Samma N'Sei?

I tend to agree, especially with the possibility that Perrin's second time helping Rand hasn't occurred yet. Then again, Rand needs killing. Which would make it super cool if Perrin saved him from Slayer, only to have Gawyn stab him afterwards (making the second one very near death).

[mauifranko78]

Cyndane/Lanfear

Pro: It's possible that Isam might not recognize her new face. Her new body is pretty, and she has been wearing red and black. She would definitely refer to Rand as Lews Therin.

Con: This clashes with her appearance at the end of TOM; whether she was lying or telling the truth, her mission there appears at odds with the mission of this Chosen. Her figure is also more buxom - Graendal commented on her impressive bosom - and her silver hair would have been notable. Moridin also seems to refer to her "the one who is punished most" in the prologue; that may indicate that her visit to Rand was real. It's also possible that her visit to Rand occurred AFTER that moment in the prologue.

 

I find it odd that he would refer to Lanfear as the "the one who is punished most"... It has been many books and meetings since Lanfear came back. Why now, refer to her as the one who is punished most. She has not failed in any way since coming back, nor been punished more severely than Mo.

 

I feel it is getting way too late in the action to be worried about subterfuge... I pray we do not get a Mistborn ending where we have characters flapping back and forth in the breeze trying to guess who or what the enemy "really" is.

 

At this point, for it to matter whether Isam knows which Forsaken he's dealing with, has to pay off for the reader of equal magnitude to the surrounding story, when he or the reader finds out later. We finally have the last battle at hand, and the writer is hiding from us identities of minorish characters?? Grrrrrrr.... Same goes for Moridin's "the one who is punished most"... Just say who you mean.. The world has 10 days left maybe...

 

His character is obviously resolved to the DO's plan... He would not care about subtlety any more..

[Wolf505]

I think it's obviously Cyndane. Aside from the Occam's Razor argument (the description, plus the fact she's the only one of the Forsaken to ever refer to him as Lews Therin), I think sending Isam, along with two Samma N'Sei may be a devious way of both getting rid of Isam and warning the Light about the Red Veils- assuming she actually is betraying the Shadow as some believe. She has to know they have very little chance against Rand given the insane amounts of Power he can channel now (there had to have been reports of Maradon by now). I also agree that this will probably be the second time Perrin saves Rand, given that they're currently in the same location (we know this from the reading from Chapter 1). Also, I have to believe she's doing this behind Moridin's back since we've seen no indication that Moridin has rescinded his order about leaving Rand alive.

[Vardar]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

Is it wrong that this still makes me laugh a couple days in?

 

While the word makes me laugh, I feel like I'm missing something...

[Neophyte]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

Is it wrong that this still makes me laugh a couple days in?

 

While the word makes me laugh, I feel like I'm missing something...

 

It is a combination of Graendal and Heffalump, because Graendal's new name is Hessalam, and Heffalump is close but funnier.

[Vardar]

It's the Graeffalump.

 

Is it wrong that this still makes me laugh a couple days in?

 

While the word makes me laugh, I feel like I'm missing something...

 

It is a combination of Graendal and Heffalump, because Graendal's new name is Hessalam, and Heffalump is close but funnier.

 

AHHH! Ok that makes sense now. Thank you.

[Duskfire]

Despite a slightly different description, the personality does match Cyndane more then anyone else, especially the apparent hatred of Rand.

[yoniy0]

the description, plus the fact she's the only one of the Forsaken to ever refer to him as Lews Therin

Except that no one has ever failed to note Cyndane's unusual hair, or her figure (I don't mean the slender part), and that she's not actually the only one to refer to him as Lews Therin. Most notably, Graendal used to, as well.

[Duskfire]

Except that no one has ever failed to note Cyndane's unusual hair, or her figure (I don't mean the slender part), and that she's not actually the only one to refer to him as Lews Therin. Most notably, Graendal used to, as well.

 

Yeah but why couldnt she have changed it via weaves?

 

Personality wise, it fits Cyndane perfectly.