Does anyone else think that the Battle of Camelyn seems veeery oddly timed?

[clu7ch]

The only chapter I was extremely displeased with was chapter 3 TOM, where she was bipolar or retarded.

These are not the words of a madman

These are definitely the words of a madman

I can't treat him like a criminal this is RAND

Crazy mofo.

 

Do not, not not hold hall meetings when your ragging.

Come to think of it, how dangerous would that be if every aes sedai in the tower synced up on that.

In my honest opinion, thats what the true last battle would be.

[Pandemonium]

Edit to add: RJ loves his foreshadowing and until the Tower, Logain is only seen in Caemlyn - and caged in Caemlyn. What better place for him to win his glory. Either that or he'll save the AS.

 

I think it is far more likely him and Pevara take down the BT. Then he goes on to rule the AS as equals with Egwene post TG.

 

I think you guys are both half right. My own personal theory has been that Logain/Androl/Pevarra would save the black tower. Their remaining Asha'man/Aes Sedai would then be free to go to Caemlyn and fight off the Shadowspawn. Logain could then achieve a glory seldom seen in this world. I think the timelines work out perfectly for this to happen since the Caemlyn invasion is well ahead of the Black tower at this point. Somewhere factored into this theory must be the fact that Logain can detect Ta'veren. At some point, I believe an imposter will pretend to be Rand and Logain will detect this (this part isn't my original idea, but it makes perfect sense) and fight off that imposter.

 

Given Logain's personal history with Egwene, I also think it quite likely he will become the male version of the Amyrlin.

[thisguy]

Edit to add: RJ loves his foreshadowing and until the Tower, Logain is only seen in Caemlyn - and caged in Caemlyn. What better place for him to win his glory. Either that or he'll save the AS.

 

I think it is far more likely him and Pevara take down the BT. Then he goes on to rule the AS as equals with Egwene post TG.

 

I think you guys are both half right. My own personal theory has been that Logain/Androl/Pevarra would save the black tower. Their remaining Asha'man/Aes Sedai would then be free to go to Caemlyn and fight off the Shadowspawn. Logain could then achieve a glory seldom seen in this world. I think the timelines work out perfectly for this to happen since the Caemlyn invasion is well ahead of the Black tower at this point. Somewhere factored into this theory must be the fact that Logain can detect Ta'veren. At some point, I believe an imposter will pretend to be Rand and Logain will detect this (this part isn't my original idea, but it makes perfect sense) and fight off that imposter.

 

Given Logain's personal history with Egwene, I also think it quite likely he will become the male version of the Amyrlin.

I like your thoughts, and thanks for sharing the other persons. Makes complete sense.

[Tiberius]

I felt that the timing in the book was off, too. The battle did feel "late" to me. I thought, even when I first read it, that it was placed poorly in relation to the other events. But, there was a lot of material to cram into that book. Mat had to rescue Moiraine as well, so I suppose I'm glad B didn't skimp on that story's detail in order to kick start the battle sooner.

 

The real question is... Why didnt Rand Ward the waygate like he did at SL? you'd think he would have taken a lot more precautions than just guarding it, especially as he spent quite a lot of time at Caemlyn, just seems awefully weak to me, especially as he wanted the Ogier to note down all of them for him, and wanted them all removed if possible. but no he leaves one of them open to be able to access the city of a woman he is meant to be in love with...

I was under the assumption that he did do just that. Didn't he send Loial and some AM to locate and ward as many as they could find, as well as ward some himself?

[Tiberius]

The only chapter I was extremely displeased with was chapter 3 TOM, where she was bipolar or retarded.

These are not the words of a madman

These are definitely the words of a madman

I can't treat him like a criminal this is RAND

Crazy mofo.

 

Do not, not not hold hall meetings when your ragging.

Come to think of it, how dangerous would that be if every aes sedai in the tower synced up on that.

In my honest opinion, thats what the true last battle would be.

ROTFLOL.

[Neophyte]

I was under the assumption that he did do just that. Didn't he send Loial and some AM to locate and ward as many as they could find, as well as ward some himself?

 

He sent Loial and Karldin to talk to all of the folks at the different stedding about putting guards on them. He had guards put around the ones in Cairhien, Caemlyn, and Tear. It never mentions that he told Karldin to ward them or not - we don't get the details of his instructions at all. (see LoC ch 10, ACoS ch 27, and CoT ch 24)

 

We know that there were at least supposed to be guards on the one in Caemlyn. Why Rand wouldn't supplement that with a weave like the one he put on the Waygate near Shadar Logoth is beyond me, but we never see him do it or think about having done it that I can tell. Regardless of whether he did or not, however, Rand has been gone from Caemlyn for months - more than enough time for Moridin (or Demandred, or whoever) to have paid a visit and cleared off whatever Rand may or may not have done. It seems very likely that the Shadow knows something of what Karldin was doing - enough that Taim put his name on the deserter list with Flinn and Narishma. So, whoever is behind the Caemlyn strike would have every reason to check the Waygate first.

 

If all that is left are regular guards, the Black Ajah and Darkfriends in Caemlyn are more than sufficient to have dealt with them.

[Suttree]

I was under the assumption that he did do just that. Didn't he send Loial and some AM to locate and ward as many as they could find, as well as ward some himself?

 

He sent Loial and Karldin to talk to all of the folks at the different stedding about putting guards on them. He had guards put around the ones in Cairhien, Caemlyn, and Tear. It never mentions that he told Karldin to ward them or not - we don't get the details of his instructions at all. (see LoC ch 10, ACoS ch 27, and CoT ch 24)

 

We know that there were at least supposed to be guards on the one in Caemlyn. Why Rand wouldn't supplement that with a weave like the one he put on the Waygate near Shadar Logoth is beyond me, but we never see him do it or think about having done it that I can tell. Regardless of whether he did or not, however, Rand has been gone from Caemlyn for months - more than enough time for Moridin (or Demandred, or whoever) to have paid a visit and cleared off whatever Rand may or may not have done. It seems very likely that the Shadow knows something of what Karldin was doing - enough that Taim put his name on the deserter list with Flinn and Narishma. So, whoever is behind the Caemlyn strike would have every reason to check the Waygate first.

 

If all that is left are regular guards, the Black Ajah and Darkfriends in Caemlyn are more than sufficient to have dealt with them.

 

IIRC he did ward the caemlyn waygate and had it "sealed". The shadow just found a way around it. Don't recall him actually leaving guards or am I misrembering?

[thisguy]

The last mentioned of it in LoC is Rand asking Loail if he'd go to the stedding for permission. What happens after that, I don't know.

[Neophyte]

IIRC he did ward the caemlyn waygate and had it "sealed". The shadow just found a way around it. Don't recall him actually leaving guards or am I misrembering?

 

In Lord of Chaos chapter ten Rand thinks: "He had the Waygate here in Caemlyn under guard, and those near Tear and Cairhien, but he could not even be sure how many more there were."

 

In Lord of Chaos chapter 20 Rand tells Elder Haman: "Shadowspawn are using the Ways ... I have set guards on the few that I can reach."

 

You are probably thinking about Knife of Dreams chapter 20 when Rand says, to Loial and Elder Haman, "Loial, I've sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and I put a very nasty trap on the one that was cut open near Fal Dara, but I couldn't find the one near Far Madding."

 

I depends on what he means by "sealed." Apparently it is not the same as having a "very nasty trap" on it, since he differentiated what he did near Fal Dara. And obviously it doesn't mean that he took out both Avendesora leaves to kill the Waygate, since if that were the case the Shadow could not be using it now.

 

Verin's letter (ToM epilogue) says that "There is a Waygate in Caemlyn. It is guarded, barricaded, and thought secure. It is not."

 

So, apparently what Rand meant by "sealed" is that he "barricaded" them somehow - bricked them up, maybe - and then placed guards on them. Again, why he wouldn't add a "very nasty trap" along with all that, I don't know, since we know he can make them selective to Shadowspawn. But apparently he didn't (or if he did, someone undid the trap, which there would be plenty of time to have done). The rest - guards, barricades, etc., the Black Ajah and associated Darkfriends in Caemlyn have taken care of, as Chesmal said to Elayne when she was posing as one of the Chosen in ToM ch 23.

[Suttree]

IIRC he did ward the caemlyn waygate and had it "sealed". The shadow just found a way around it. Don't recall him actually leaving guards or am I misrembering?

 

In Lord of Chaos chapter ten Rand thinks: "He had the Waygate here in Caemlyn under guard, and those near Tear and Cairhien, but he could not even be sure how many more there were."

 

In Lord of Chaos chapter 20 Rand tells Elder Haman: "Shadowspawn are using the Ways ... I have set guards on the few that I can reach."

 

You are probably thinking about Knife of Dreams chapter 20 when Rand says, to Loial and Elder Haman, "Loial, I've sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and I put a very nasty trap on the one that was cut open near Fal Dara, but I couldn't find the one near Far Madding."

 

I depends on what he means by "sealed." Apparently it is not the same as having a "very nasty trap" on it, since he differentiated what he did near Fal Dara. And obviously it doesn't mean that he took out both Avendesora leaves to kill the Waygate, since if that were the case the Shadow could not be using it now.

 

Verin's letter (ToM epilogue) says that "There is a Waygate in Caemlyn. It is guarded, barricaded, and thought secure. It is not."

 

So, apparently what Rand meant by "sealed" is that he "barricaded" them somehow - bricked them up, maybe - and then placed guards on them. Again, why he wouldn't add a "very nasty trap" along with all that, I don't know, since we know he can make them selective to Shadowspawn. But apparently he didn't (or if he did, someone undid the trap, which there would be plenty of time to have done). The rest - guards, barricades, etc., the Black Ajah and associated Darkfriends in Caemlyn have taken care of, as Chesmal said to Elayne when she was posing as one of the Chosen in ToM ch 23.

 

Ah thanks Neo, the quotes are much appreciated.

[thisguy]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

[Neophyte]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

[thisguy]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

[John Snow]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Yes, but there is a problem transporting Trollocs through the Ways, so it would be risky.

Which begs the question: How did all of the Trollocs not die on their way to camelyn? The Black Wind should have been drawn extremely strongly

[Neophyte]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Well, apparently the Shadow held off on the attack on Caemlyn until Elayne and most of her army is gone. Perhaps they held off on the attack on Tar Valon until Egwene and much of her support is gone too. The meeting at the Field of Merrilor has been well publicized - I don't doubt that the Shadow is aware that no one is home in many of these places.

 

When the cat is away ...

 

Side note on this subject - I wonder what would happen if the Seanchan attack on the White Tower ran into a bunch of invading Shadowspawn at the same time? Would it make Fortuona regard the Aes Sedai in a more friendly way (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) or just make her more sure that they need to be leashed (those incompetent Aes Sedai can't even protect their own capital!)

[Neophyte]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Yes, but there is a problem transporting Trollocs through the Ways, so it would be risky.

Which begs the question: How did all of the Trollocs not die on their way to camelyn? The Black Wind should have been drawn extremely strongly

 

Both authors have said (at various times) that the Shadow has been improvising and learning just as the Light folks have - we just haven't seen it as much. Since Machin Shin was born of the taint on the male half of the Source, I wouldn't be surprised if Moridin found a way to make friendly with it, perhaps using the True Power.

 

That's just a guess though.

[Neophyte]

Accidental double post - feel free to delete

[John Snow]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Yes, but there is a problem transporting Trollocs through the Ways, so it would be risky.

Which begs the question: How did all of the Trollocs not die on their way to camelyn? The Black Wind should have been drawn extremely strongly

 

Both authors have said (at various times) that the Shadow has been improvising and learning just as the Light folks have - we just haven't seen it as much. Since Machin Shin was born of the taint on the male half of the Source, I wouldn't be surprised if Moridin found a way to make friendly with it, perhaps using the True Power.

 

That's just a guess though.

 

Actually....have we even seen it since sadin was cleansed?

[thisguy]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Well, apparently the Shadow held off on the attack on Caemlyn until Elayne and most of her army is gone. Perhaps they held off on the attack on Tar Valon until Egwene and much of her support is gone too. The meeting at the Field of Merrilor has been well publicized - I don't doubt that the Shadow is aware that no one is home in many of these places.

 

When the cat is away ...

 

Side note on this subject - I wonder what would happen if the Seanchan attack on the White Tower ran into a bunch of invading Shadowspawn at the same time? Would it make Fortuona regard the Aes Sedai in a more friendly way (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) or just make her more sure that they need to be leashed (those incompetent Aes Sedai can't even protect their own capital!)

 

 

 

I'm guessing Shadowspawn first, then after achieving victory.

 

The ground was littered with corpses; soldiers of the White Tower and Seanchen, damane and sul'dam alike, even Aes Sedai, their ageless faces as recognizable dead as alive, littered the ground. Egwene (Or Elaida - depending when you put this in the story) was on her knees. Exhausted, she stood and made her way to the woman they called The Daughter of the Nine Moons. Small and slim, the woman seemed no threat at all. Yet, Egwene had seen her take down a trolloc with two well placed throwing knives. Egwene walked over to the Princess who was surrounded by an escort of soldiers and leashed Damane.

"I know we've had our differences but, after this battle, you must see that we can work together. You must see that we can be trusted." Egwene reached her hand out to Tuon. She still remembered her time their captive but, now more than ever, they must work together against the Shadow. Tarmon Gai'don was here. The Dark One Touched the world directly.

Flanked by her soldiers and damane, Tuon stepped forward until she was just steps away from Egwene. "You have proven just how powerful you are, and what a threat you can be to the Shadow."

Egwene smiled.

"Unfortunately, that means you can be a threat to the Empire. SEIZE HER!!!!" ETC ETC

[Neophyte]

I don't have the book on me - but when Loial comes back to Caemlyn at the end of LoC - either the beginning of the Mirror of Mist chapter or the one before that - he asks Loial if he'd go ask permission at the Steddings.

 

Yes. That is mentioned in a conversation between Loial and Perrin in ACoS chapter 27.

 

Loial reports back with Karldin in CoT chapter 24. Several of the stedding refused to post guards on the Waygates (including two on the Shadow Coast - perhaps the source of the Trollocs recently engaged by Tylee Khirgan?).

 

Later, in KoD chapter 20, just after Loial's marriage, is the conversation in which Rand mentioned that he "sealed" the Waygates in Cairhien, Caemlyn, Illian, and Tear. Rand is still worried about other Waygates near ancient cities that are no longer inhabited, or where Rand simply couldn't find the Waygate. The upshot of that conversation is that Loial is going to go to speak at the Great Stump, since he's been Outside too long, and Elder Haman volunteers to try to do something about the remaining Waygates.

 

Until Verin's note, I think that was the last we'd heard about the Waygates. I imagine the unblocked ones, and maybe the ones with guards, will be significant in AMoL. We know that Caemlyn's will be.

 

Plus, I doubt Rand was able to do anything about the Waygate in Tar Valon ... and Egwene hasn't indicated that it is on her mind at all.

Holy crap, I have no memory of Loial getting married!!! Going to speak at the great stump, sure. Married, no.

 

GREAT POINT!!! I forgot the one at Tar Valon. Funny that the DO or Ishy or whoever never used it before. 5000 trollocs should have at least killed 10 AS and some warders. In fact, with all the BA in the Tower, they may have been able to eradicate the Tower.

 

Yes, but there is a problem transporting Trollocs through the Ways, so it would be risky.

Which begs the question: How did all of the Trollocs not die on their way to camelyn? The Black Wind should have been drawn extremely strongly

 

Both authors have said (at various times) that the Shadow has been improvising and learning just as the Light folks have - we just haven't seen it as much. Since Machin Shin was born of the taint on the male half of the Source, I wouldn't be surprised if Moridin found a way to make friendly with it, perhaps using the True Power.

 

That's just a guess though.

 

Actually....have we even seen it since sadin was cleansed?

 

No, we have no PoVs within the Ways since before the cleansing - so we have no idea what it did to Machin Shin. If we use the analogy of the taint-madness in the minds of male channelers, it seems likely that the cleansing of saidin would not have eradicated the Black Wind, it would simply have arrested its growth. That is all speculation for now though.

 

However, we do know that someone impersonating Sammael sent over a hundred thousand Trollocs into the Ways, and apparently most or all of them got through to attack Rand at Lord Algarin's manor house. Along with the other sightings of Trollocs far from the Blight, it seems that the Shadow has found some way to use the Ways with at least relative safety.

[TootThatHorn]

One thing I'm thinking about as far as the timing of this is what took so long? I mean it's all well and good for the borderlands to be attacked, that does make sense. But as far as that, why not simply attack one borderland country with your whole force that you are dedicating to that part of the battle and absolutely eradicate it? The borderlands really should be one of the bigger threats to the shadow, at least from a standpoint of force that is lacking channelers.

 

Next would be Caemlyn, so it makes sense to attack it, given that it does have an army that is most likely going to be bolstered by Cairhein, and also has the Black Tower, even though it is so riddled with DFs that the shadow probably took that in to account with their attack.

 

But my point is kind of this...If you want chaos to run rampant, then cause it. It seems the shadow has forces to spare so I would think major cities should have been attacked like crazy, especially with the meeting at the FoM. What better way to demoralize an army and rulers than to burn their cities while they are too far away to do anything? aMoL is a 3 part series in and of itself and besides the logical part of attacking the borderlands, it took till the end of the 2nd installment for something as momentous as the assault on Caemlyn....But if it is just a warning of things to come, then it should be pretty incredible.

[Suttree]

But if it is just a warning of things to come, then it should be pretty incredible.

 

Brandon claimed a significant portion(a 1/3 possibly?) of AMoL is battles. Thing this was indeed kicking off big things to come.

[Durinax]

But if it is just a warning of things to come, then it should be pretty incredible.

 

Brandon claimed a significant portion(a 1/3 possibly?) of AMoL is battles. Thing this was indeed kicking off big things to come.

I am expecting jumps from PoV's in various battles showing the turmoil around the world. I expect lots of Bashere, Ituralde, Agelmar along with the main 3 (although primarily mat and perrin).

 

I do hope we get more than a few good glimpses of the Great Generals during the various battles, not just mat or perrin

[The Fisher King]

Its a shame ol pedron niall didn't make it to this shindig to show his skillz

 

 

Fish

[TootThatHorn]

Its a shame ol pedron niall didn't make it to this shindig to show his skillz

 

 

Fish

 

Ya I liked him, but at least they have a leader that knows what they are facing now.