Something I always wondered re: Healing stilling

[Lisa Campbell]

Damer Flinn healed Sashelle and she never mentioned diminished power in her letter to Galina (read by Tsutama) so it has already been figured out. Rand just needs to be told about it and about how Nynaeve healed Logain fully but not Suian and Leanne to put the dots together. I think that Suian would go for it. She hates having to resort to subterfuge and simper to AS she could easily order about if she had her original power. Her bond with Gareth may enter the decision but she could pass him on and then get him back later if she was worried about it. He'd go along too in my opinion.

[Sharaman]

She doesn't have to pass Byrne on. The bond would automatically break if she's Stilled and she could bond him again once she's Healed. Anyhoo she Owns GB.

[Clouded]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

[Lisa Campbell]

My opinion is that the bond would be broken and that if Suian chose to be stilled and healed again, she wouldn't want to risk Gareth going on a Warder death bender in the meantime.

[EmperorMayhem]

they could test the theory on captured Black Ajah women or Black Tower Darkfriends. ...speaking of which, someone should really have told Egwene that Balefire was the only way to go when disposing of channeler darkfriends, since the DO can simply revive them all, so as to ensure they're all gone for good.

[bcspeer]

they didn't capture any Black Ajah women. they killed every one they got their hands on. I don't think the DO would revive any members of the Black Ajah. They probably aren't worth the effort

[Vardar]

they didn't capture any Black Ajah women. they killed every one they got their hands on. I don't think the DO would revive any members of the Black Ajah. They probably aren't worth the effort

 

Yea but they still have Messy. Hmm, she's braindead right? I wonder if your soul leaves the body when you're braindead, like that Orgier in the earlier books.

[bcspeer]

Possibly but the Ogier was different, he was attacked by the Black Wind in the Ways. Mesaana's mind just practically broke because of what Egwene did. Hopefully they aren't stupid enough to kill her before they find out about balefire. But if they do kill her, would she be perfectly fine if the DO revives her or would she still be braindead?

[Thrasymachus]

Your soul is not your brain, nor your mind, so probably not. Though I'm of the opinion that the DO can't bring back Messy because her soul's trapped in a now broken shell. She'd have to die first.

[Vardar]

Possibly but the Ogier was different, he was attacked by the Black Wind in the Ways. Mesaana's mind just practically broke because of what Egwene did. Hopefully they aren't stupid enough to kill her before they find out about balefire. But if they do kill her, would she be perfectly fine if the DO revives her or would she still be braindead?

 

It's possible. They just seemed really similiar to me, which made me wonder. It may be too late.

 

Would they kill her though? I tend to think they're too weak for that, although I can't see wanting to leave a person in that condition, especially knowing it's not curable, or knowing the crimes she commited why would you want to heal her. We'll never find out however, sadly.

[bcspeer]

It should be mentioned when Rand and Egwene have their meeting in AMoL. It seems kind of important to tell the DR that another Forsaken has been defeated before the Last Battle. I don't think Egwene would fail to mention that.

[Thrasymachus]

I can easily see them leaving Messana alive as sort of like a head on a spike to show what happens when even the Forsaken try messing with the White Tower. They did it to deposed Amryllins, after all, making them work in the kitchens or as servants. Messana just can't do anything useful besides sit there and drool on herself so people can point to her and say, "See what happened to one of the Forsaken when she tried messing with the White Tower? Don't mess with the White Tower." At this point, she's more valuable to the White Tower alive than dead, though just barely. And they may be able to use her to bait out other Forsaken.

[bcspeer]

Maybe they want to try and heal her (probably can't happen) to get information out of her. True it has turned out to be disastrous with Moghedien and Semirhage but you know, third times the charm.

[Mr Ares]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

Yes. At Dumai's Wells, some of the stilled AS had Warders - the effects are the same as if the sister was killed.

[Vardar]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

Yes. At Dumai's Wells, some of the stilled AS had Warders - the effects are the same as if the sister was killed.

 

Not exactly the same. Later in the series it's described as more of a extreme fuzzing.

[Suttree]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

Yes. At Dumai's Wells, some of the stilled AS had Warders - the effects are the same as if the sister was killed.

 

Not exactly the same. Later in the series it's described as more of a extreme fuzzing.

 

Not sure what you mean? The bond is broken either way.

[Clouded]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

Yes. At Dumai's Wells, some of the stilled AS had Warders - the effects are the same as if the sister was killed.

Not exactly the same. Later in the series it's described as more of a extreme fuzzing.

 

I found the quote Ares is referring to. Verin spots Irgain while she is compulsing the captured Aes Sedai.

 

Irgain was Green Ajah. Or rather, had been Green, before Rand al'Thor stilled her. Being shielded dulled and fuzzed the bond to your Warder, but being stilled snapped it as surely as death. One of Irgain's two apparently had fallen over dead from the shock, and the other had died trying to kill thousands of Aiel without making any effort to escape.

[Vardar]

Do we know how a warder reacts to bond being broken via stilling? Do we know that the bond is broken via stilling?

Yes. At Dumai's Wells, some of the stilled AS had Warders - the effects are the same as if the sister was killed.

Not exactly the same. Later in the series it's described as more of a extreme fuzzing.

 

I found the quote Ares is referring to. Verin spots Irgain while she is compulsing the captured Aes Sedai.

 

Irgain was Green Ajah. Or rather, had been Green, before Rand al'Thor stilled her. Being shielded dulled and fuzzed the bond to your Warder, but being stilled snapped it as surely as death. One of Irgain's two apparently had fallen over dead from the shock, and the other had died trying to kill thousands of Aiel without making any effort to escape.

 

HA! Proven wrong, thanks.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Quote

 

Edit: Re: War of Power: Remember that this was not like a world war. WW1-2 lasted what, 4-5 years. But these wars, neither side actually wanted to fight, as soon as a reasonable peace could be arranged, and their leaders subdued, they quickly made peace. With the Shadow, there is no peace. The Shadow would not stop short of total victory, so the Light had to fight tooth and nail to survive. Take World War two for example, it wasn't really a "world war", imagine the Nazi's with 10 times as much firepower, and how long it would take to conquer the entire world, nation by nation, while those nations fought to the bitter end to defend their country. It would take a long, long time.

I believe you have that backwards.

 

With 10 times the firepower on both sides WWII would not have been able to last even as long as it did before both sides were devastated and the victors contemplated thier Pyrrhic victory amidst the rubble. And if only the Nazis had 10 times the firepower Britain and Moscow would have fallen before the US even entered the war.

 

It's the low intensity conflicts which simmer on forever. And that is something the War of Power was not. By all accounts it was total war.

 

And the War of Power would have had far more than 10 times the firepower of the Nazis. The magic of the AoL far outshined the magic of current Randland, and by all implications their technology far outstripped ours. If they were really going all out, balls to the wall, than their war would have been settled one way or another quicker than Mosk's and Merc's dance with Spears of Fire.

 

Or do you think the 1980s USA and USSR could have kept up a total war for a protracted period?

 

Edit: Also, re: your assessment of WWII, in what world is unconditional surrender considered a reasonable peace?

 

Their technology far outstripped ours, but we don't know what a war fought with that level of tech would look like. In our Age, advances in military technology have generally put the edge more and more towards the offense. We don't know that that was true during the Age of Legends. What do we know? On one side, a population of billions, ready to mobilize. On the other, nearly unlimited capacity for Shadowspawn creation. The shear time it took to grind through those numbers might have dragged out the war. Both sides had gateways, but also the ability to disrupt their creation. Who knows how long Generals spent fighting to establish enough of a stable Traveling connection to actually be able to engage on any significant scale? The devastation unleashed by the Power eventually reduced the armies of the Light (I'd assume of the Shadow as well, but I only have an RJ quote for the Light) to using "horses and swords" in place of "armored tanks and shocklances". But remember, this was the infrastructure of the entire world being destroyed. It's not implausible at all that it could have taken a while, especially if the Age of Legends had advanced ways to rebuild and repair. Also, were battles simply a matter of charge in and hope you can kill faster than your enemies? Remember, neither side was being led by Weiramon! Modern battles have a great deal of manuvering, trying to get into a better firing position before actually pulling the trigger. Battles in Iraq and Afghanistan between relatively small forces have dragged on for hours, even though the actual act of killing in a gunfight takes a fraction of a second. Indeed, increased lethality can sometimes slow down a battle by forcing each side to be more cautious-compare the simple trading of volleys from the Napoleonic Wars to modern tactics and evasion.

[Thrasymachus]

It took about a hundred years for outright battle-lines to be drawn and fighting to occur. The War of Power itself took something like 10 years according to Jordan. The fact that it took that long has more to do with nobody knowing how to fight a war than anything else. The fact that Constructs can't be Travelled also likely hindered the Shadow's advance. Once engaged, the War of Power was all-out assault, by both sides. The Shadow captured cities, and Lews Therin captured them back. But taking the cities back was so costly, and what they got back so demoralizing, that it didn't take long for the Light to start losing the War. Within a few years, it was all they could do to counter-attack. Within a few years more, it was all they could do to defend what remained. Then, Lews Therin sealed the Bore, ushering in the Breaking, which made the War of Power look like Moiraine siccing bugs on Lan.