Ability to Channel

[Master of the Anvil]

I think a few people are missing the point. The point is that most people cannot channel. The point isn't that they're not the best or they're not elite. It's that they can't channel at all no matter what they do.

 

To put it in comparison to what everyone has been talking about:

 

Being all stars in something is one thing, but anyone can pick up a football. Anyone can throw and play. There is no rule that says you can’t do that. There’s no rule that says you didn’t go to high school, you can’t read, you can’t write. You can do any of those things. But in WoT, you have to be born to channel. If you can’t, you can’t and there’s nothing you can do about it. Yeah maybe some people are elite at football or music, or they’re genius, but at some level everyone else can do something like that. Everyone can at least start to become what the elite are. But in channeling you just can’t. it doesn’t matter how hard you stare at that rock, it’s not going to move. And that’s the point. That’s what’s not fair. Sure, everyone can’t be the best. Everyone can’t train to be as strong as Rand. It’s just not going to happen, but they could start. They could try. But only if everyone had the ability. The way it stand, most people just can’t do it at all.

 

To the point about still being able to do something even if you can’t channel and still having a good life even if you can’t channel, yes these things are true, but that wasn’t the point of the conversation.

 

To the point that magic users need to be rare for everything to work, I understand that in this story yes. Things would have to be changed drastically in WoT if everyone could channel. I’m not saying that. I’m just focusing on the point of it being unfair. Not the logistics.

 

To the point about being tone-deaf: You may be tone-deaf and awful at singing, but you can still sing. You can still try and you can take classes to be better. I don’t think the point was that everyone would be amazing at channeling, but simply that they could try and train.

[Wandering Channeler]

Thank you Master of the Anvil that probably explains what I was trying to say better than I have been doing so far.

[Agitel]

To the point that magic users need to be rare for everything to work, I understand that in this story yes. Things would have to be changed drastically in WoT if everyone could channel. I’m not saying that. I’m just focusing on the point of it being unfair. Not the logistics.

 

While I largely stand in agreement with you, I just want to distinguish myself and say it's not about "fairness" for me. The inborn trait is somewhat of an artificial construction to keep it rare, and it's because of the very points you highlighted that I feel it's artificial. I'd like to see fantasy explore other ideas beyond that.

[Ferdawoon]

I'm sorry to say but this sound like communistic "I want everything" style talk.What is so wrong with someone having something that someone else will never be able to achieve just because of luck with the genes? Just as someone can be born ugly as a trolloc, some can be born really beautiful. Is that unfair as well? No matter the ammount of makup, you just cannot get as nice as those who were bon with the proper features.

As been said, some are tonedeaf, some cant hold a bet at all (seen some of those try to dance, they cannot hit a single beat with their movements) yet some can play full suites on a piano at 6 years of age..

It is also proven that some have genetics to buld muscles much better and easier than others, and of course those are the ones that will end up with the elites.

A friend of mine was born without a sense of smell, meaning she cant taste anything beyound the five basic tastes (salt, sweet, sour, etc) and myself I cannot taste any real difference between wines or similar. I just cannot grasp the concept of how flavors shoudl work together to bring out something or the other. For me it just need to tase good, be reasonably nutricious and make me not be hungry anymore.

 

Yes, if I ended up in Randland, knowing what I know from the story, I would probably like to be able to channel, and I would die a bit inside if I did not.

However, dont be so sure that everyone in Randland would actually WANT to be able to channel. Consider the fear and hatred of male channeles for hundreds of years. Consider the suspicions about Aes Sedai and their "wormtounges" and all that. Basicly, channeles in Randland are not really hat much in good favor with people. Sure, they are consulted for healing and sometimes kings and queens use their councel, but other than that? EVen when going to the tower to ask for healing, people are hesitant. There was a reason we heard about superstition in The Eye of the World that an Aes Sedai healing you would then have a leash on you and be able to find you wherever you were, for example.

 

Also, what do you do with your life? You do some brutal training, practicing every evening and sometimes being beat up for failing. You then, if lucky, end up being an Aes Sedai and completly alienated from the world, not really bringing anything back to it.

People have more respect for a Wisdom who heal you with herbs and act as a midwife than an Aes Sedai..

[Vardar]

Everyone can learn to stay on beat. Although the way in which some people stay off beat astounds me sometimes. It takes talent to be able to completely ignore the beat in that way.

[Wandering Channeler]

Ferdawoon you are taking it too much into the story. If everyone could channel then you would not be alienated, because everyone could channel. Also I said "be able to channel" not "have to channel".

 

And as I stated before, I know life isn't fair. People are born with different abilities all the time, I was saying I would prefer if channeling was an ability you could learn to do, not something you were born with.

 

Lastly, communist? really? My point is pretty much the opposite of communist. Communisim is sharing of everything were everyone gets the same result regardless of effort. My point is that working at channeling and developing your skill at it makes you better. You gets the benefits of your effort, you work hard you become more powerful, you do not work hard then you do not.

[TristanWebb]

Actually, equality is just as fundamental to capitalism as it is to communism. Without basic equality capitalist systems quickly devolve into class systems. Not saying that everyone has to be equal in a capitalist society, just that everyone needs to have the same basic rights and information for it work.

 

A channeler class outside of the AoL post-scarcity society would quickly become a dominant force in any otherwise fair economy or political structure, unless you have a way like the Seanchan of containing them. Why do you think they are revered everywhere in Randland, from AS to wise ones, sh'botans and wisdoms?

[Suttree]

Damn socialists. It's all Obama's fault ;)

[Wandering Channeler]

Actually, equality is just as fundamental to capitalism as it is to communism. Without basic equality capitalist systems quickly devolve into class systems. Not saying that everyone has to be equal in a capitalist society, just that everyone needs to have the same basic rights and information for it work.

 

A channeler class outside of the AoL post-scarcity society would quickly become a dominant force in any otherwise fair economy or political structure, unless you have a way like the Seanchan of containing them. Why do you think they are revered everywhere in Randland, from AS to wise ones, sh'botans and wisdoms?

 

Agreed. So I would prefer everyone have the ability to become that dominant force compared to being born with it like a monarchy. Am I missing the point here?

 

Damn socialists. It's all Obama's fault ;)

 

Haha no comment :)

[Knivy]

You were born with an extra toe, I was born with a conduit that allows me to access the Source.

[TristanWebb]

Actually, equality is just as fundamental to capitalism as it is to communism. Without basic equality capitalist systems quickly devolve into class systems. Not saying that everyone has to be equal in a capitalist society, just that everyone needs to have the same basic rights and information for it work.

 

A channeler class outside of the AoL post-scarcity society would quickly become a dominant force in any otherwise fair economy or political structure, unless you have a way like the Seanchan of containing them. Why do you think they are revered everywhere in Randland, from AS to wise ones, sh'botans and wisdoms?

 

Agreed. So I would prefer everyone have the ability to become that dominant force compared to being born with it like a monarchy. Am I missing the point here?

 

Damn socialists. It's all Obama's fault ;)

 

Haha no comment :)

Was in reply to Ferdawoon. Lots of people snuck in before I finished posting though.