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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Transcript of Chapter One Reading From ComicCon


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This isn't Scooby Doo - Moiraine doesn't need to jump out of a cake and yell "SUUUURPRISE!!!"

 

...What about Taren Ferry?

 

 

Fish

 

i think that the effect of the whole Rand and Moiraine reunion is going to be grander if he doesn't hear it from someone first and see her walking towards him.

 

the Taren Ferry, i admit i am a bit confused too, maybe they all went down to the Two Rivers or up towards Baerlon, not sure there though, i think they might have left after the men went to fight at the LB since Tam went to gather the remaining.

 

dont know.

 

p.s. not trying to offend you with my previous post, sorry if i did.

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Yes, I understood the chapter on Mah'alleinir. I meant, "Perrin, is your new hammer good at breaking cuendillar seals?"

 

I see now that it would be better if Moiraine surprises Rand at a key moment.

 

I misunderstood your suggestion on the hammer bit, my bad, but honestly the seals should be weak enough to break by hand by now, after how easily others have broken

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Yes, I understood the chapter on Mah'alleinir. I meant, "Perrin, is your new hammer good at breaking cuendillar seals?"

 

I see now that it would be better if Moiraine surprises Rand at a key moment.

 

I misunderstood your suggestion on the hammer bit, my bad, but honestly the seals should be weak enough to break by hand by now, after how easily others have broken

 

They are, Rand, at least, believes he can break them himself. He wouldn't need to think about that, even if they can't be, he still believes they can.

 

BTW, as an aside, at first I was keen on the Perrin-breaking seals bit, it would be cool, but I don't think it is the case. Apart from the bit discussed just now about being easily broken (probably), there are several prophecies, visions and dreams that say Rand will break them himself.

 

Anyway, back on topic, there is no reason to assume that Rand and Perrin should be talking about anything important in this scene. As mentioned, they have already met, when Rand arrived earlier that day. Rand then went to bed, had his cyndane dream, and woke up.

 

Perrin was in TAR, but obviously he woke up as well, whether he had already checked the Dreamspike at the BT or not, I don't know.

 

In any case, the middle of the night after waking up from THAT dream, I could forgive Rand for not getting straight to business.

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You come into the conversation at the end of a story. Who is to say that 20 minutes ago they weren't talking about Moiraine and that is what led them back to the two rivers. We have basically nothing to go off that conversation other than Rand is laughing again and isn't that pissed at Perrin for not bringing back the prophet.

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For those who don't like the topic of conversation between Perrin and Rand, I think this is more character development rather than plot. Particularly Zen Rand. Remember, he deliberately turned his back on the Two Rivers because, in his "hardness" he thought it was a way to protect them. Especially after Fain led the attack on the region. Now, post VoG(1st Rand POV since VoG except ToM epilogue) we see it's still very dear to him as it was since leaving in TEOTW and he is able to express it freely. We've come full circle.

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- As mentioned, Liandrin brings it up in tGH, she seems confident she can avoid Machin Shin.

- Machin Shin is acting up and following Rand.

- Fain isn't devoured by Machin Shin (not that it has any real bearing on Caemlyn attack, but just a note of the oddities that have been happening)

- Rand starts sealing waygates to avoid Shadowspawn surprise attacks.

- Someone is moving large forces of Shadowspawn through the Ways (according to Moridin)

- Huge force attacks Rand at Manor (could be via other methods, but still unsure)

- Trollocs randomly turn up near Ebou Dar (again, could be portal stone or something else)

 

I've covered all of these, but I will again:

-We see plently of characters who think they can do something but are mistaken. Moriane thought she could avoid the black wind, and she did, until the very end. Lliandrian was probably lucky, and they had a small group.

-Good point. This I suppose is the possible answer.

-RJ said that was professional courtsey, but we've seen it and enjoy trollocs

-Ummm., Ok?

-I don;t think he used the word large. I may be wrong, but every quote I recall said small forces were used as to not attract the wind.

-Yes the manor house. In a huge empty area, where multiple waygates and multiple portal stones could have been used before they gathered. This is a city, in a basement. Even thinking the basement was extremely huge, covering a city block or something, a hundred trollocs or so, then you're squezzing them thru the gate again, and thta's not even counting keeping the damn things quiet or getting them out the single entrance/exit into the city.

-Ebon Dar? Not sure which you're referring too, but see my earlier comment about the manor house. Same rule applies.

 

I know it'll happen, because hey it's their book, and if they say it happens it does. It just suspends a lot of disbelief in my mind..

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For those who don't like the topic of conversation between Perrin and Rand, I think this is more character development rather than plot. Particularly Zen Rand. Remember, he deliberately turned his back on the Two Rivers because, in his "hardness" he thought it was a way to protect them. Especially after Fain led the attack on the region. Now, post VoG(1st Rand POV since VoG except ToM epilogue) we see it's still very dear to him as it was since leaving in TEOTW and he is able to express it freely. We've come full circle.

 

Yes. I very much liked the dark intro leading us to a laughing Rand (in the middle of a conversation with Perrin which for all we know could've already taken quite a while). It also shows both Perrin and Rand being more confident, more mature and way way way more relaxed then the previous few books. This I like. It gives the reader hope that we have rightly put our trust in these characters, we have invested years in these guys.

So good to see two friends being that, two friends.

Being friends.

In a non-gloomy-doomy way.

Yay!

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I like the scene, but if Rand and Perrin are going to be catching up, it seems that there are some more relevant specifics they could be discussing.

 

Like, "...she was hiding as your serving woman the whole time, and you didn't know?!" or, "Mat and Thom went to save who???!!!!"

 

Or they could get right to business, "hey, Perrin, how is that new hammer with cuendillar?"

 

1. As mentioned, Perrin has decided already not to mention Moiraine to Rand so as to not get his hopes up.

 

2. Rand learned about Morgase from Tam at the end of TGS.

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I've covered all of these, but I will again:

-We see plently of characters who think they can do something but are mistaken. Moriane thought she could avoid the black wind, and she did, until the very end. Lliandrian was probably lucky, and they had a small group.

-Good point. This I suppose is the possible answer.

-RJ said that was professional courtsey, but we've seen it and enjoy trollocs

-Ummm., Ok?

-I don;t think he used the word large. I may be wrong, but every quote I recall said small forces were used as to not attract the wind.

-Yes the manor house. In a huge empty area, where multiple waygates and multiple portal stones could have been used before they gathered. This is a city, in a basement. Even thinking the basement was extremely huge, covering a city block or something, a hundred trollocs or so, then you're squezzing them thru the gate again, and thta's not even counting keeping the damn things quiet or getting them out the single entrance/exit into the city.

-Ebon Dar? Not sure which you're referring too, but see my earlier comment about the manor house. Same rule applies.

 

I know it'll happen, because hey it's their book, and if they say it happens it does. It just suspends a lot of disbelief in my mind..

 

I don't want to spam the thread, so this will be the last reply on the subject.

 

You misunderstand the point of that list. I am not trying to explain how or why it happened.

 

I am saying that this profound disbelief you have is not warranted. While we didn't exactly guess this was going to happen, there is enough evidence and clues that point to it. That was what the list was for, the list of strange things that have happened with the Ways throughout the series.

 

I can't say how this happened, but it is not so abstract to produce such incredulity.

 

Rand cleansed the Taint, Nynaeve healed Severing, the discovery of old Talents.

The point with mentioning Rand sealing all the Gateways is that it has been made a big deal, it is a big arrow pointing to - Shadowspawn are going to attack through the Ways.

Moridin brings it up in KoD I think it is, someone has been moving masses of Shadowspawn through the Ways, tens of thousands, which is massive I would say. Again, another clue.

We have Liandrin etc.. while it proves nothing either way, it is again, another clue.

Machin Shin getting along with Fain isn't the cause, as you said, but it highlights that it is not acting normally, something else that brings to attention something going on with the Ways.

 

I already mentioned in the post you quoted that the Manor and Ebou Dar incident (that is, when Tylee is randomly attacked by Trollocs in tGS) that this may be portal stone, however, it could just as well be another clue that points to the Ways being used.

 

So again, I am not trying to explain exactly how it happened. What I am saying is that the use of the Ways isn't such a big reverse of logic. It is entirely possible and believable. Ishamael has had hundreds of years to study the Ways (3000 years of periodically being spun out adds up to a few hundred or so), the other Chosen could very well have found out something. The corruption of the Ways was a result of the Taint, the DO is able to protect people from the Taint, he could have knowledge of how to protect one from Machin Shin.

 

Anyway, back on topic, if anyone wants to continue the debate, probably should start up a thread about it and I will debate further.

 

Re: Tarren Ferry: Not sure what happened there, but when was the last we heard of it having a few people? LoC? The world has degenerated much more since then, it could be that, as matters got worse, they abandoned the rebuilding and sought refuge in the TR, Baerlon or Caemlyn. It is happening everywhere else.

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The thing with Taren Ferry is mostly weird because it was destroyed in TSR, but by the time LOC rolled around it had started to repopulate due to the large number of refugees coming over the mountains into the Two Rivers. Emond's Field is a fair-sized town now because of that. They had a Wisdom and a Mayor and all that good stuff, and whether something disastrous has happened since then or not, it's strange for the wind to pass over it like that without a hint of why the town is abandoned.

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The thing with Taren Ferry is mostly weird because it was destroyed in TSR, but by the time LOC rolled around it had started to repopulate due to the large number of refugees coming over the mountains into the Two Rivers. Emond's Field is a fair-sized town now because of that. They had a Wisdom and a Mayor and all that good stuff, and whether something disastrous has happened since then or not, it's strange for the wind to pass over it like that without a hint of why the town is abandoned.

 

Yeah, I agree totally. Just suggesting a possible reason.

 

OTOH, it was destroyed off-screen pretty randomly to begin with, so who knows?

 

But yeah, strange that it wasn't even mentioned in passing. Unless, of course, it has something to do with the Prologue. IIRC, we are getting a Tam PoV in the Prologue, and he is mustering troops in the Two Rivers. We may learn of it then.

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I think we are missing some information on Fain, and his possible reunification with his true self possibly machin chin and he have reunited; thus allowing safer movement through the ways?

 

What worries me is who is actually in the city to defend it, and are the dragons vulnerable...how many did Elayne take and how much of the Band is there with Talmenes, how long will it take for word to reach FoM

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We're getting a Tam POV, but it wasn't specified to be in the prologue.

 

Ahh, I wasn't sure about that. Fair enough, thanks.

 

Even still, I suppose it is a possibility, it would be the best place for a Tam PoV, I think. But yeah, no idea otherwise. Could be an oversight.

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SamVines - thanks for the opinion on Taren Ferry. Does anyone else have any?

 

I'm thinking that after the war in the Two Rivers, with Perrin becoming the Lord, and the other communities (Tarren Ferry, Devin Ride) coming to their aid, I seem to remember talk of consolidating the Two Rivers area together. This could simply mean Terren Ferry (and the other towns) were abanded for a larger "Two Rivers" city under Perrin.

 

As for Caemlyn, of course it's possible this was done with a Waygate. Most of the city's armed personelle are mercenaries, tired from the succession war, and if you put a couple hundred Trollocs in the middle of a city at night, with more pouring through the waygate, then you could easily have a burning city (or at least a good amount of burning buildings) in no time. Just look at what happened in Caihein in TGH.

 

For Rand and Perrin's conversation, I'm guessing this is meant simply to contrast against all the destruction, as well as to show Rand's change to Perrin. Perrin got more of the brunt of Rand's anger in his hard days (moreso than Mat anyway) and so maybe just talking about it again with Rand2.0 is a way to set some more things in motion. Who knows.

 

It was deifnitely exciting to read this though! I so wish I'd been there!

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Is no one else happy to see Rand happy?

 

It is nice that the Dragon can cry and smile; and has achieved his equilibrium. But that scene just raises the suspicion that Rand isn't the same Rand who started the series. If even the taste in food and wine is imprinted in Rand's mind, how much of Rand is he?

 

This Rand - LTT merge has been confusing for me!

Edited by Theodril
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Well colour me impressed, this coupled with the previous glimpse of the book is building a fevered anticipation in me.

Is no one else happy to see Rand happy?

 

Seeing him happy makes me always twice as happy :smile:

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Moiraine doesn't need to jump out of a cake and yell "SUUUURPRISE!!!"

 

Speak for yourself.

 

"Hi Rand," said Moiraine. "The reason I've been gone..."

 

Rand waved her off. "Perrin told me all about that. I already got all of the emotional/happy stuff out of the way off screen, because everyone knows people don't like to read about that kind of stuff."

 

 

I suppose you could argue that it would be just as emotional if Perrin told him, but you'd be wrong.

Edited by Deadsy
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Moiraine doesn't need to jump out of a cake and yell "SUUUURPRISE!!!"

 

Speak for yourself.

 

"Hi Rand," said Moiraine. "The reason I've been gone..."

 

Rand waved her off. "Perrin told me all about that. I already got all of the emotional/happy stuff out of the way off screen, because everyone knows people don't like to read about that kind of stuff."

 

 

I suppose you could argue that it would be just as emotional if Perrin told him, but you'd be wrong.

 

Don't be surprised to see Rand kiss Moiraine and give her a long hug. If that scene isn't emotional, I'll be disappointed.

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Rand and Moraine reunion has major weepy eye potential.

 

@Theodrill - How much are any of the Two Rivers folk the same as they were. As Rand even said in the bit people stay the same no matter how much they change or some such.

 

@Gwenifer - Rand happiness squared so.

 

I really hope there isn't too much more material released, as it will only make the wait more unbearable for me.

I know I could just leave advance material alone but there some hope of that now.

 

 

 

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1- Rand and Moraine reunion has major weepy eye potential.

 

2- @Theodrill - How much are any of the Two Rivers folk the same as they were. As Rand even said in the bit people stay the same no matter how much they change or some such.

 

1- Definitely! Heck, I got bleary eyed thinking about it after reading her battle with Lanfear during my last reread.

 

2- People changing is different from people merging. Rand and LTT merged into one. LTT has had physical manifestations: humming at pretty women, fighting a shadowspawn army in Algarin's manor, talking to Rand and helping him in VoG and other instances prior to that. And we now have Rand with LTT's wine preferences. It is just confusing me a great deal!

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@Gwenifer - Rand happiness squared so.

 

And that's the only kind of math I am willing to tolerate in my life.

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