How to become a Great Captain

[1Brotherbill]

 

We see a glimpse of Ituralde's genius and tenacity; and another of Bashere's. But we don't see any battles for the others; and we cannot go by how how much "screen time" each was given. Because if screen time was the factor, Mat would top that group; and even Mandevwin might qualify since he led a few battles on screen.

 

That's the point.

 

It hasn't been proven that Nail or Aglemar are great Captains. But when the others have been put to the test only Ituralde has proven that his is truly a great Captain. Basher and Byrne have not excelled when they have been given the chance to.

 

There is a list as long as my arm of people who have demonstrated that they are great military leaders all throughout the story. But to be a Great Captain. Well that is something that doesn't seem to be of great value.

[Finnssss22]

We see a glimpse of Ituralde's genius and tenacity; and another of Bashere's. But we don't see any battles for the others; and we cannot go by how how much "screen time" each was given. Because if screen time was the factor, Mat would top that group; and even Mandevwin might qualify since he led a few battles on screen.

 

That's the point.

 

It hasn't been proven that Nail or Aglemar are great Captains. But when the others have been put to the test only Ituralde has proven that his is truly a great Captain. Basher and Byrne have not excelled when they have been given the chance to.

 

There is a list as long as my arm of people who have demonstrated that they are great military leaders all throughout the story. But to be a Great Captain. Well that is something that doesn't seem to be of great value.

 

We haven't seen on screen or heard much about off screen how Aglemar or Byrne are considered Great Captians but we have heard about Nail. We at least know specifically when and where he earned his status, that was of course during the Whitecloak War.

[Muad Cheade]

We see a glimpse of Ituralde's genius and tenacity; and another of Bashere's. But we don't see any battles for the others; and we cannot go by how how much "screen time" each was given. Because if screen time was the factor, Mat would top that group; and even Mandevwin might qualify since he led a few battles on screen.

 

That's the point.

 

It hasn't been proven that Nail or Aglemar are great Captains. But when the others have been put to the test only Ituralde has proven that his is truly a great Captain. Basher and Byrne have not excelled when they have been given the chance to.

 

There is a list as long as my arm of people who have demonstrated that they are great military leaders all throughout the story. But to be a Great Captain. Well that is something that doesn't seem to be of great value.

That is the equivalent of one observing the life of Hannibal Barca after the First Punic war and declaring that since he did not participate in any battle for the rest of his life, he was not a great general.

 

Yes, there are many capable commanders in the story but there is a clear distinction and separation between them and the Five Great Captains. For example, Lord Baldhere, the general of Kandor is said to be a good commander yet he is not seen as a Great Captain.

[Finnssss22]

We see a glimpse of Ituralde's genius and tenacity; and another of Bashere's. But we don't see any battles for the others; and we cannot go by how how much "screen time" each was given. Because if screen time was the factor, Mat would top that group; and even Mandevwin might qualify since he led a few battles on screen.

 

That's the point.

 

It hasn't been proven that Nail or Aglemar are great Captains. But when the others have been put to the test only Ituralde has proven that his is truly a great Captain. Basher and Byrne have not excelled when they have been given the chance to.

 

There is a list as long as my arm of people who have demonstrated that they are great military leaders all throughout the story. But to be a Great Captain. Well that is something that doesn't seem to be of great value.

That is the equivalent of one observing the life of Hannibal Barca after the First Punic war and declaring that since he did not participate in any battle for the rest of his life, he was not a great general.

 

Yes, there are many capable commanders in the story but there is a clear distinction and separation between them and the Five Great Captains. For example, Lord Baldhere, the general of Kandor is said to be a good commander yet he is not seen as a Great Captain.

 

 

Aye and I think this applies to the Seanchan as well.

No doubt that they have very capable and even exceptional commanders like Lord Baldhere but whether they have anyone on a level with say, Ituralde, remains to be seen.

In fact, the most promising candidate we have to date has been Kadere when he recognized Mat's intentions in Altara but even that is too small a sample to base anything conclusively.

 

To be honest, my opinion so far on the Seanchan's supposed "Ever Victorious" superiority has had more to do with superior resources than superiority in tactical knowledge and training.

[Maleshub]

We see a glimpse of Ituralde's genius and tenacity; and another of Bashere's. But we don't see any battles for the others; and we cannot go by how how much "screen time" each was given. Because if screen time was the factor, Mat would top that group; and even Mandevwin might qualify since he led a few battles on screen.

 

That's the point.

 

It hasn't been proven that Nail or Aglemar are great Captains. But when the others have been put to the test only Ituralde has proven that his is truly a great Captain. Basher and Byrne have not excelled when they have been given the chance to.

 

There is a list as long as my arm of people who have demonstrated that they are great military leaders all throughout the story. But to be a Great Captain. Well that is something that doesn't seem to be of great value.

 

Agelmar fights an annual battle in Tarwin's Gap. He can hardly be less than a Great Captain if he's still alive after all those battles.

 

As to Bryne, he hasn't fought any battles. He has built an army from scratch and besieged Tar Valon effectively.

 

Bashere's battle scenes were minor as the PoV was centered on Rand.

[1Brotherbill]

Do you guys know how to become a Great Captain? Because every person in the series seems to all agree on the 5 great captains, nobody ever complains that one doesnt belong there. So is it something like getting a heron marked blade and you have to be voted or were they just the best generals in the Aiel War. Or are there always 5 Great Captains in this land and everytime one dies someone else needs to take thier place.

 

Since this has been derailed probably more by me than others.

 

What does it take to be a Great Captain?

 

Well it has been stated that leading well trained men at arms to a well known battle field every year and coming back alive is one quality.

 

Following the Dragon Reborn around for seven books like a lap dog is also a good quality. Also leaving your country that you are a "Great Captain" while all that is pure evil is knocking on the door step is a good quality.

 

Being put in charge of an army by AS, because lets face it they couldn't get anyone else to do it, is also what appears to be the best quality.

 

Leading the White Cloaks for years and winning battles against armies of crazy people, because lets face it if you fight White Cloaks you are Darkfriends and always will be thought of as such, is a good quality.

 

And the quality that is the least desirable is fighting against a superior invading force in your own country and winning. This is the worst in fact it is so bad the Dragon Reborn will step in and tell you to go fight in the country of one of the other Great Captains.

 

So if you want to be a Great Captain think about one of these or more than one of these traits to build your rep on.

[wookiebear]

Do you guys know how to become a Great Captain? Because every person in the series seems to all agree on the 5 great captains, nobody ever complains that one doesnt belong there. So is it something like getting a heron marked blade and you have to be voted or were they just the best generals in the Aiel War. Or are there always 5 Great Captains in this land and everytime one dies someone else needs to take thier place.

 

Since this has been derailed probably more by me than others.

 

What does it take to be a Great Captain?

 

Well it has been stated that leading well trained men at arms to a well known battle field every year and coming back alive is one quality.

 

Following the Dragon Reborn around for seven books like a lap dog is also a good quality. Also leaving your country that you are a "Great Captain" while all that is pure evil is knocking on the door step is a good quality.

 

Being put in charge of an army by AS, because lets face it they couldn't get anyone else to do it, is also what appears to be the best quality.

 

Leading the White Cloaks for years and winning battles against armies of crazy people, because lets face it if you fight White Cloaks you are Darkfriends and always will be thought of as such, is a good quality.

 

And the quality that is the least desirable is fighting against a superior invading force in your own country and winning. This is the worst in fact it is so bad the Dragon Reborn will step in and tell you to go fight in the country of one of the other Great Captains.

 

So if you want to be a Great Captain think about one of these or more than one of these traits to build your rep on.

 

um, you realize that these are supporting, or major/minor characters at best.

 

The way to become a Great Captain would probably be the fodder or an entire book, or even series of books. I am pretty sure the backstory to flesh out each of these GC's would entail multiple volumes, extending the series at least 5 more novels, and this would have little to do with the current story that is being told. We are told by the authors that they are Great Captains, that they have done deeds in the world that have lead their peers to view them as something special.

 

Would I like to know what those deeds are, yes. Am I going to demand it, no

 

Their actions and the respect shown to them by other characters and the snippets of history and backstory we are shown allow us to perceive them as Great Captains.

 

I would like to know more, but I am not sure that more will be forthcoming, unless as a encyclopedia entry or outrigger books that detail the lives of the GC's before the coming of the DR.

[Suttree]

Do you guys know how to become a Great Captain? Because every person in the series seems to all agree on the 5 great captains, nobody ever complains that one doesnt belong there. So is it something like getting a heron marked blade and you have to be voted or were they just the best generals in the Aiel War. Or are there always 5 Great Captains in this land and everytime one dies someone else needs to take thier place.

 

Since this has been derailed probably more by me than others.

 

What does it take to be a Great Captain?

 

Well it has been stated that leading well trained men at arms to a well known battle field every year and coming back alive is one quality.

 

Following the Dragon Reborn around for seven books like a lap dog is also a good quality. Also leaving your country that you are a "Great Captain" while all that is pure evil is knocking on the door step is a good quality.

 

Being put in charge of an army by AS, because lets face it they couldn't get anyone else to do it, is also what appears to be the best quality.

 

Leading the White Cloaks for years and winning battles against armies of crazy people, because lets face it if you fight White Cloaks you are Darkfriends and always will be thought of as such, is a good quality.

 

And the quality that is the least desirable is fighting against a superior invading force in your own country and winning. This is the worst in fact it is so bad the Dragon Reborn will step in and tell you to go fight in the country of one of the other Great Captains.

 

So if you want to be a Great Captain think about one of these or more than one of these traits to build your rep on.

 

Ok, officially just jumped the line into trolling. Either that or willfull ignorance when it comes to the back history these characters have in this world.

[bsmnt23]

The thing about merely adequate generals throughout history is they tend to fight the last war. From “Fighting The Last War by Dr. G. Terry Madonna and Dr. Michael Young:

 

Generals are notorious for their tendency to "fight the last war" -- by using the strategies and tactics of the past to achieve victory in the present. Indeed, we all do this to some extent. Life's lessons are hard won, and we like to apply them -- even when they don't apply.

 

Sadly enough, fighting the last war, is often a losing proposition. Conditions change. Objectives change. Strategies change. And you must change. If you don't, you lose.

 

Probably the classic example is the French Maginot Line constructed in the aftermath of World War I. France adopted this phalanx of fortifications to prevent the Germans from repeating the August 1914 invasion that resulted in four years of bloody trench warfare.

 

Unfortunately for France, Hitler and the German generals outfoxed them by inventing the blitzkrieg--a new and terrible form of lightning warfare that simply went around and over the Maginot Line.”

 

Generals who have attained their rank through nepotism or court appointment or simply through graft obviously tend to be incompetent whereas merely competent generals have a tendency to stick to one tactic that worked once and try to use that in any new battlefield scenario they come across. A commander who cannot adapt to a changing battlefield situation is usually the one to come up second. Alexander the Great was frequently outnumbered by the Persians, but he won victory after victory by changing this tactics and strategy to fit the terrain and situation.

 

Generals like Weiramon are all too common throughout history, but I am willing to bet he in particular was based on General Sherman who also knew one thing about warfare: the cavalry charge, and it got him very killed, very dead. The 5 great captains of Randland are legendary because they each have consistently won wars in which changing situations were the norm. If they did it off-screen or in the history of the series, that doesn’t change that they have achieved a great deal.

[Suttree]

Generals like Weiramon are all too common throughout history, but I am willing to bet he in particular was based on General Sherman who also knew one thing about warfare: the cavalry charge, and it got him very killed, very dead.

 

As we found out however Weiramon was far more than the persona he presented.

 

tPoD Ch.24

Absorbed in one another, Weiramon and Gedwyn did not hear him riding up on them. Gedwyn was idly playing with his reins, his features cold with contempt. The Tairen was red-faced. "I don’t care who you are," he was saying to the black-coated man in a low, hard voice, spittle flying, "I won’t take more risk without a command direct from the lips of – "

Abruptly the pair became aware of Bertome, and Weiramon’s mouth snapped shut. He glared as if he wanted to kill Bertome. The Asha’man’s ever-present smile melted away. The wind gusted, cold and sharp as clouds drifted across the sun, but no colder than Gedwyn’s sudden stare. With a small shock Bertome realized the man also wanted to strike him dead on the spot.

Gedwyn’s icily murderous gaze did not change, but Weiramon’s face underwent a remarkable transformation. The red faded slowly as he produced a smile in an instant, an oily smile with only a trace of mocking condescension. "I’ve been thinking about you, Bertome," he said heartily. "A pity al’Thor strangled your cousin. With his own hands, I hear. Frankly, I was surprised you came when he called. I’ve seen him watching you. I fear he plans something more... interesting... for you than thrashing your heels on the floor while his fingers tighten on your throat."

[Durinax]

we do not know weiramons true genious, he has been using tactics that bleed out the maximum amount of men to hurt the light, which is very smart. I want to know his true abilities though

[1Brotherbill]

Ok, officially just jumped the line into trolling. Either that or willfull ignorance when it comes to the back history these characters have in this world.

 

Not really. Well maybe a little bit.

 

But the point is this. You have Andor, one of the greatest nations in Randland. A nation that has been around for thousands of years. A nation that is wealthy beyond measure. With a military force that is unequal in Randland. So it would be odd to not have the leader of the army not be a Great Captain.

 

You have a leader of the you got to be right if you stand in the light military force. Well you better be a Great Captain as well because if you weren't you would be run down by most nations.

 

You have two Great Captains from the Borderlands. My only problem with this is why not have Seven Great Captains because the military leaders of Arafel and Kandor must be just as good as those of Saldea and Shienar. Because after all they do battle with the Blight just as much as the rest of the Borderlands.

 

Now it comes to Ituralde this seems to be the odd choice. Because he doesn't have a huge backing like Naill and Bryne or the historical need that the Borderlanders do. Ituralde just has to fight the Taraboners for the rest of his career. Though the books have proved that he is possibly the most inventive of the five. Still kind of odd.

 

This is why I think the title of Great Captain is just a title. And being that they are all about the same age it was probably given out during the Aiel Wars and would probably go away when the five of them die. And from what you see in New Spring. If Lan hadn't become a Warder you might have seen him as a Great Captain.

[Orderofolde]

In shorter terms they are usually men who lead smaller forces and are the underdogs that consistently out think, out maneuver, and fight their opponents right off their feet I believe it was said.

 

I gotta disagree with this. Gareth Bryne is considered a Great Captain, but has likely never fought a war in which he had inferior forces. Hell, even in the AS Civil War the SAS had a larger army than the TAS, and also advantages in channeler capabilities.

 

More likely it is just an informal title granted to those generals who consistently succeed in warfare through whatever means they have.

Disagree all you want, but to boil it down further and to not put numbers and battles vs. wars won into the debate, these are Generals that have distinguished themselves to such a degree that their men will follow their orders unquestioningly no matter how odd because quite simply they win and do it with style. They are brilliant tacticians, men who have "battle luck," or are men long trained in the art of war who can skillfully apply it or a combination thereof. They don't actually have to be ranking Generals or even lords as Mat (and RJ) likes to point out. These men are our Napoleons and our Washingtons, our Wellingtons, Sam Houston's, and our Sun Tzu's. (I just had to throw in a Texan.)

[Orderofolde]

And it is not an informal title, unless you meant to describe it as an Honorific applied to these people. Even enemies have respect for the Great Captains, admiring their prowess and clever maneuvers, because in the end, war is no different than a game of chess, the pieces represent the men of the armies available to each General. Numbers seldom matter, as there are advantages and disadvantages to both having the superior numbers and the lesser numbers. Training, spies, scouting, it all boils down to knowledge, information, and misinformation. It is not a single chess board, but more like a multi-tiered chess board with different types of battles raging on each one. Sorry if this is TMI, but war and history is my forte.

[Finnssss22]

Ok, officially just jumped the line into trolling. Either that or willfull ignorance when it comes to the back history these characters have in this world.

 

Not really. Well maybe a little bit.

 

But the point is this. You have Andor, one of the greatest nations in Randland. A nation that has been around for thousands of years. A nation that is wealthy beyond measure. With a military force that is unequal in Randland. So it would be odd to not have the leader of the army not be a Great Captain.

 

You have a leader of the you got to be right if you stand in the light military force. Well you better be a Great Captain as well because if you weren't you would be run down by most nations.

 

You have two Great Captains from the Borderlands. My only problem with this is why not have Seven Great Captains because the military leaders of Arafel and Kandor must be just as good as those of Saldea and Shienar. Because after all they do battle with the Blight just as much as the rest of the Borderlands.

 

Now it comes to Ituralde this seems to be the odd choice. Because he doesn't have a huge backing like Naill and Bryne or the historical need that the Borderlanders do. Ituralde just has to fight the Taraboners for the rest of his career. Though the books have proved that he is possibly the most inventive of the five. Still kind of odd.

 

This is why I think the title of Great Captain is just a title. And being that they are all about the same age it was probably given out during the Aiel Wars and would probably go away when the five of them die. And from what you see in New Spring. If Lan hadn't become a Warder you might have seen him as a Great Captain.

 

You make it sound like anyone who leads an army or has fought in numerous battles should be a Great Captain.

During WWII, was every General a Great Captain then? No, that's why there were ones that stood out like Rommel, Patton and Montgomery.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that these 5 guys stand out above the rest, are not just good strategists but military geniuses and are recognized for it?

[Mr Ares]

Generals like Weiramon are all too common throughout history, but I am willing to bet he in particular was based on General Sherman who also knew one thing about warfare: the cavalry charge, and it got him very killed, very dead.

I think you might be thinking of General Custer. General Sherman was noted for his use of scorched earth tactics against the South. He was one of the best generals the union had in the Civil War.

 

But the point is this. You have Andor, one of the greatest nations in Randland. A nation that has been around for thousands of years. A nation that is wealthy beyond measure. With a military force that is unequal in Randland. So it would be odd to not have the leader of the army not be a Great Captain.

Wealth, history and size of army do not indicate the leader will be a Great Captain. It might be that whoever finds favour with the current Queen is merely competent, for example. Great generals do not grow on trees. It might be that you just don't have anyone brilliant available, so you make do with the merely adequate.

 

You have a leader of the you got to be right if you stand in the light military force. Well you better be a Great Captain as well because if you weren't you would be run down by most nations.

If you can't beat most nations, don't start wars with them. In the hands of great politicians and generals, Whitecloak influence will wax, and in the hands of lesser men it will wane, same as with any other nation.

 

You have two Great Captains from the Borderlands. My only problem with this is why not have Seven Great Captains because the military leaders of Arafel and Kandor must be just as good as those of Saldea and Shienar. Because after all they do battle with the Blight just as much as the rest of the Borderlands.

That doesn't follow. Just because you fight as much, doesn't mean you fight as well. The mere fact of Arafel and Kandor not being represented by Great Captains should surely tell you something. Such as, for example, their not being as good as the others.

 

Now it comes to Ituralde this seems to be the odd choice. Because he doesn't have a huge backing like Naill and Bryne or the historical need that the Borderlanders do. Ituralde just has to fight the Taraboners for the rest of his career. Though the books have proved that he is possibly the most inventive of the five. Still kind of odd.

Again, this should tell you that there is something wrong with your thinking. Ituralde doesn't fit your way of looking at things, and nor do Arafel and Kandor. They do fit the notion of Great Captains being a term given to generals who have shown themselves to be deserving - those widely acclaimed as being the best. There is nothing in the slightest bit odd about Ituralde's placement when looked at in that light.

[bsmnt23]

Generals like Weiramon are all too common throughout history, but I am willing to bet he in particular was based on General Sherman who also knew one thing about warfare: the cavalry charge, and it got him very killed, very dead.

I think you might be thinking of General Custer. General Sherman was noted for his use of scorched earth tactics against the South. He was one of the best generals the union had in the Civil War.

 

 

Epic historical fail. Thanks, Mr Ares, Yes I ment Custer. I'm just going to go facepalm myself to death. lol.

[garry1209]

Now it comes to Ituralde this seems to be the odd choice. Because he doesn't have a huge backing like Naill and Bryne or the historical need that the Borderlanders do. Ituralde just has to fight the Taraboners for the rest of his career. Though the books have proved that he is possibly the most inventive of the five. Still kind of odd.

 

Again, this should tell you that there is something wrong with your thinking. Ituralde doesn't fit your way of looking at things, and nor do Arafel and Kandor. They do fit the notion of Great Captains being a term given to generals who have shown themselves to be deserving - those widely acclaimed as being the best. There is nothing in the slightest bit odd about Ituralde's placement when looked at in that light.

 

[Maleshub]

Talking about great captains and mention of Mat ... how many Seanchan soldiers did he kill during his 7-10 day campaign in Altara? Before answering, he started out with 3 banners of horse (4500 cavalry) and 4000 mounted crossbowmen for a total of 8500. In "A cup of kaf" we know that there were 4 sizable engagements and 60 raids, ambushes, and skirmishes. If we give an average of 100 - 200 Seanchan deaths per raid, skirmish, or ambush, then we would have 10K Seanchan killed in those alone. With the sizable engagements, one resulted in 4000 dead or rendered useless. And we have another engagement in which the Seanchan lost 4 banners of horse (6000) and 5 of foot (15000) for a total of at least 20000 lost in that engagement. If the other two sizable engagements are as small as the first, that's another 8000 Seanchan killed. The total for Mat's campaign up till Loune's briefing to Karede would be 10000 + 12000 + 20000 = 42000 Seanchan killed.

 

Mat lost 900 (500 cavalry and 400 crossbowmen). And he didn't lose a single POW.

 

That is what Great Captains do!

[Sharaman]

The number of seanchan he killed was irrelevant. H minimised his own casualties while achieving his objective - getting the stopper in the jar out.

BTW the campaign description sounded just a little like Jackson in the Shenandoah Valley.

[Maleshub]

Talking about great captains and mention of Mat ... how many Seanchan soldiers did he kill during his 7-10 day campaign in Altara? Before answering, he started out with 3 banners of horse (4500 cavalry) and 4000 mounted crossbowmen for a total of 8500. In "A cup of kaf" we know that there were 4 sizable engagements and 60 raids, ambushes, and skirmishes. If we give an average of 100 - 200 Seanchan deaths per raid, skirmish, or ambush, then we would have 10K Seanchan killed in those alone. With the sizable engagements, one resulted in 4000 dead or rendered useless. And we have another engagement in which the Seanchan lost 4 banners of horse (6000) and 5 of foot (15000) for a total of at least 20000 lost in that engagement. If the other two sizable engagements are as small as the first, that's another 8000 Seanchan killed. The total for Mat's campaign up till Loune's briefing to Karede would be 10000 + 12000 + 20000 = 42000 Seanchan killed.

 

Mat lost 900 (500 cavalry and 400 crossbowmen). And he didn't lose a single POW.

 

That is what Great Captains do!

The number of seanchan he killed was irrelevant. H minimised his own casualties while achieving his objective - getting the stopper in the jar out.

BTW the campaign description sounded just a little like Jackson in the Shenandoah Valley.

 

The numbers in my post failed to include Elbar's army, another 10000. That would bring the total to 52000 Seanchan troops killed and only 900 men lost. And Mat achieved his objective!

 

Again, that's what Great Captains do!

[Durinax]

Talking about great captains and mention of Mat ... how many Seanchan soldiers did he kill during his 7-10 day campaign in Altara? Before answering, he started out with 3 banners of horse (4500 cavalry) and 4000 mounted crossbowmen for a total of 8500. In "A cup of kaf" we know that there were 4 sizable engagements and 60 raids, ambushes, and skirmishes. If we give an average of 100 - 200 Seanchan deaths per raid, skirmish, or ambush, then we would have 10K Seanchan killed in those alone. With the sizable engagements, one resulted in 4000 dead or rendered useless. And we have another engagement in which the Seanchan lost 4 banners of horse (6000) and 5 of foot (15000) for a total of at least 20000 lost in that engagement. If the other two sizable engagements are as small as the first, that's another 8000 Seanchan killed. The total for Mat's campaign up till Loune's briefing to Karede would be 10000 + 12000 + 20000 = 42000 Seanchan killed.

 

Mat lost 900 (500 cavalry and 400 crossbowmen). And he didn't lose a single POW.

 

That is what Great Captains do!

The number of seanchan he killed was irrelevant. H minimised his own casualties while achieving his objective - getting the stopper in the jar out.

BTW the campaign description sounded just a little like Jackson in the Shenandoah Valley.

 

The numbers in my post failed to include Elbar's army, another 10000. That would bring the total to 52000 Seanchan troops killed and only 900 men lost. And Mat achieved his objective!

 

Again, that's what Great Captains do!

where do you get the number 900?

[RandA lThor]

I think Mat said it somewhere

[Finnssss22]

where do you get the number 900?

 

KoD 37

 

To be fair though, that was just before the fight with Elbar's 10,000 so there were some more but not many.

[Benganza]

You make it sound like anyone who leads an army or has fought in numerous battles should be a Great Captain.

During WWII, was every General a Great Captain then? No, that's why there were ones that stood out like Rommel, Patton and Montgomery.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that these 5 guys stand out above the rest, are not just good strategists but military geniuses and are recognized for it?

Rommel wasn't that great a general, he had a solid foundation like most german generals, but all he really did was being aggressive and a little bit faster than his oppenent thought.

He was also charismatic and he died in oppossition to Hitler so he was suitable as a hero on both sides after the war and he got somewhat propped up for propaganda reasons so the allied generals looked better in beating him.