Timeline problem in tEotW?

[XoMeltdownoX]

You think by saying "in a week or seven days" we would infer a week equals seven days? No. By using the word "or" you are referring to mutually exclusive terms. In our world the two are the same, therefore you are being redundant and the sentence does not work. If you said that to me I would assume English was not your native language. In the example from the book as much as week to 10 days, clearly points out that RJ had not designed the in world week to equal 10 days as of EotW.

[Thrasymachus]

In English, the use of the word "or" is ambiguous. It can be used to refer to mutually exclusive possibilities, such as, "Either the truck is blue or it is red." Or it can be used to refer to things which are not otherwise linked, and can both be true at the same time. "The roses or the gladiolas will be blooming next week." Logically, the use of "or" is always inclusive, unless otherwise specified. In this usage, the word "or" signifies that either one or the other option must be true, or they could both be true.

[1Brotherbill]

You think by saying "in a week or seven days" we would infer a week equals seven days? No. By using the word "or" you are referring to mutually exclusive terms. In our world the two are the same, therefore you are being redundant and the sentence does not work. If you said that to me I would assume English was not your native language. In the example from the book as much as week to 10 days, clearly points out that RJ had not designed the in world week to equal 10 days as of EotW.

 

To think that an author that was planning on writing a series of books that would last for twenty plus years, clearly points to the fact that you haven't written anything besides a greeting on a post card.

 

So he had a year with thirteen months all 28 days long. He had festivals in each month that are major parts of the story background. He had measurements that stretched form a pace to multiple miles. But since it wasn't in the glossary at the end of EotW he hadn't figured out that a week is ten days long? I guess he didn't think of Flame, Ebu Dar, Seanchan, Far Madding, etc. Just because it wasn't in the glossary doesn't mean the author didn't think it up first.

[XoMeltdownoX]

In English, the use of the word "or" is ambiguous. It can be used to refer to mutually exclusive possibilities, such as, "Either the truck is blue or it is red." Or it can be used to refer to things which are not otherwise linked, and can both be true at the same time. "The roses or the gladiolas will be blooming next week." Logically, the use of "or" is always inclusive, unless otherwise specified. In this usage, the word "or" signifies that either one or the other option must be true, or they could both be true.

Yes the word or can be inclusive, but may also be exclusive. It is not true to say it is always inclusive unless we are discussing its use in mathematics. In grammar it depends on the context, as per your examples. Based on the context of this discussion, that the stated week or 10 days, the context is clear that they are exclusive.

[Mr Ares]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

I am completely sure. There is nothing in my glossary (a fair while after the first printing) about a week being ten days, not for EotW (there is in LoC, though, which was the first to include it). Also, there is this from EotW 21: "but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source"

You can take the quote in two ways. One proves that a week is ten days or you can say that ten days is longer than a week.

I'd like to see your reasoning for the former interpretation.

Really? Is it that hard of a statement to understand? If I told you in a week or seven days would you not understand that a week is seven days long?

If I didn't already know a week was seven days long saying a week or seven days would indicate to me that a week was not seven days. If I knew a week was seven days long, saying something would happen in a week or seven days would strike me as a somewhat odd way of putting it. You could be using it for effect - saying, essentially, that it will happen in a week. Or maybe a week is different where you come from, or you are confused about how long a week is. None of them really fit the context of the quote. If someone says or, it is more likely they are saying "either A or B" than they are saying "either A or A". The phrasing is indicative of a week and ten days being two different things, as it is unusual to use or in the way you suggest.

 

Also, there are several examples of things in EotW in particular that don't precisely fit what comes later. The OP, in particular. It is quite different in the first few books. It is quite clear RJ didn't have the entire world planned when he set down to write - he has admitted as much (for one thing, he did a lot to flesh out Cairhien only during the writing of TGH). I don't consider it at all unlikely that he hadn't precisely decided on all the details of his calendar that early on.

 

To think that an author that was planning on righting a series of books that would last for twenty plus years, clearly points to the fact that you haven't written anything besides a greeting on a post card.

This sentence doesn't make any sense. Also, RJ was not planning on righting, or even writing, a series that would last for twenty years. He did not anticipate it taking anything like the number of years or words that it did.

[Agitel]

I could see "a week or seven days" also being an idiom of a sort in a "it doesn't matter how you measure it, it is what it is" type of way, but that doesn't fit the context.

 

Anyway, I just flipped through the glossaries of the books. The first one to include an entry for the calendar is The Lord of Chaos. The summary at the start of the glossaries about the different calendars that have been in use don't go into specifics about the length of the week, days in a month, holidays, etc . . .

[Suttree]

So he had a year with thirteen months all 28 days long. He had festivals in each month that are major parts of the story background. He had measurements that stretched form a pace to multiple miles. But since it wasn't in the glossary at the end of EotW he hadn't figured out that a week is ten days long? I guess he didn't think of Flame, Ebu Dar, Seanchan, Far Madding, etc. Just because it wasn't in the glossary doesn't mean the author didn't think it up first.

 

He had a number of tEotW-isms that quite clearly show he didn't have everything planned out, based on proof from the text this falls in the category.

[Luckers]

So he had a year with thirteen months all 28 days long. He had festivals in each month that are major parts of the story background. He had measurements that stretched form a pace to multiple miles. But since it wasn't in the glossary at the end of EotW he hadn't figured out that a week is ten days long? I guess he didn't think of Flame, Ebu Dar, Seanchan, Far Madding, etc. Just because it wasn't in the glossary doesn't mean the author didn't think it up first.

 

He had a number of tEotW-isms that quite clearly show he didn't have everything planned out, based on proof from the text this falls in the category.

 

More than that, he stated as much. During EotW he had notes on the Two Rivers, Andor, and Shienar, with a few other odds and ends. He extended the notes after that as he went.

[1Brotherbill]

Finally got to the Whitebridge part in the EotW. The inn keeper said a week or there abouts the begger showed up asking about the three country boys the woman in silk and the fighting man. Then the next day the man in black showed up asking about the three boys the woman in silk the fighting man plus two girls and a white haired gleeman.

 

So it doesn't say how long it takes the boat to get to Whitebridge. Also you can assume that Mor and Lan are taking there time getting to Whitebridge after all they don't want to come up the backside of a few hundred Trollocs. So Fain running flat out across country could beat the boat and the horses to Whitebrige by a week or there abouts.

[christiansch]

Actually it does,since they talked to the innkeeper the same day they arrived,then they arrived a week later.still does not make sense to me,as the boat was travelling at least running speed,if not faster. as i said earlier,i'd buy a few days faster,and that's with Fain knowing exactly where he was going.

[Dagon Thyne]

Or he could have used the ways.

 

At that time he was more like a prisoner than a leader to the trollocs. I doubt they would be willing to enter the ways right after leaving SL.

[dhammett11]

My impression from Moiraine's interogation of Fain is that the knowledge of the ways did not come to him very specifically until in the cellar in Caemlyn. Additionally its never been suggested a draghkar could manage to carry someone over distance.

 

That being said we don't understand entirely what the Dark One did to Fain, though we do know he was driven to travel hard and fast, stopping only when exhaustion dropped him, and on his feet running again the second he regained conciousness. That compulsion, or for that matter his union with mordeth, or a mixture of both, may have lent him unnatural stamina--certainly we know that journey drove him mad and nearly killed him.

 

For anyone interested in pinning down what we know for certain about what Fain knows and is capable of, the following Tor QotW is helpful:

 

Week 10 Question: In The Great Hunt, who wrote the Dark Prophecy on the dungeon wall in Fal Dara? And why, after Ingtar released Padan Fain from the dungeon, did Fain decide to go to Toman Head? We know he was rebelling against Ishamael's orders (he was supposed to follow the Myrddraal to Shayol Ghul) but why did Fain go to Cairhien and then to Toman Head?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: A Myrddraal wrote the Dark Prophecy on orders, as a threat. I might want to use some of the reasons, so the rest on that is RAFO.

 

Fain (now amalgamated with Mordeth) was seeking his own power base, something he would try again with Pedron Niall and Toram Riatin. He wanted enough power to be able to kill Rand, Mat and Perrin, though most especially Rand, and to protect himself against agents of the Shadow. Because of Darkfriend reports, the Myrddraal who wrote the prophecy already knew who the strangers on Toman Head were, or claimed to be: Artur Hawkwing's armies returned to reclaim the lands stolen from Hawkwing's heirs. He knew that they collared women who could channel, which appealed to Fain/Mordeth, since one disliked Aes Sedai at best and the other purely hated them. The Myrddraal didn't simply give this up to Fain, you understand. Fain is one of the few people who could successfully torture information out of one of the Eyeless. As for why he went to Cairhien first, he knew the location of the Waygate there (along with several others and how to read the guidings in the Ways, this last from Mordeth) and preferred to use the Ways rather than make the longer cross-country journey from Fal Dara to Toman Head.

 

So on top of what Moiraine is able to dig up, we can say for certain that Fain's ability to travel the Ways comes from Mordeth being able to read Ogier script. However, it is unclear when or how he learned the locations of the Waygates known to him prior to traveling to Toman Head. It is entirely possible that he learned of most of them from the Myrddraal he interrogated in TGH and that before this only the Caemlyn and Fal Dara and Manetheren gates were known to him. This would put paid to any theory that he used the Ways regularly during tEotW.

[Thorum]

Isn't Whitebridge itself a relic from the Age of Legends?

 

It said something like "no one knows how the bridge was constructed". Which probably means early 3rd Age (with still some AoL knowledge), since the Breaking wouldn't have left both the bridge and the river alone.

[TristanWebb]

This is the kind of thing that stems from demystifying the series. Fain got there because he is a scary force that is always one step ahead. When you pull it out that he is just a person with some DO sense of smell, it takes alot of the tension out of the first book. This will never be explained IMO so it is better to just say a wizard did it than try to shoehorn in something to make it fit. Or you could claim Ishy, Aginor and Bethamel compelled a sister to let them link and form a gateway then killed her.