Timeline problem in tEotW?

[christiansch]

Sorry if this has already been discussed,i checked but did not see an answer. I also wondered how Padan Fain got to Baerlon so fast,but that was answered later in the book. Fain gets to Whitebridge a week before(assuming he's the 'weasilly' fellow) Rand,Mat and Thom; and another day before Moiraine and co..How? The trips from SL were 13 days by boat; 14 days by horse; and only 6 days for Fain -on foot!! Since the path on land was through forests,etc; would think it should take a bit longer, especially on foot. The boat had by far the easiest path(even with headwinds),as they were moving with the current, and had men rowing the boat. If Fain still had fades and trollocs to deal with,could understand a couple of days difference;but so much faster than a boat,and also horses? Don't think Moiraine wasted any time in pursuit,as nothing was after them. I think the actual travel times should only have been a week by boat; if Fain was 'carried' by trollocs,a couple of days later, and the horses a similar amount as Fain,a day behind 'cause of later start. (The trolloc chase in tGH is a good example.) Any ideas? If Fain went directly,could understand it,but he definately went to SL as well(and met Mordeth after our heroes).

[RandA lThor]

Fain might have been on a Draghkar that we kept seeing.

[A Rant Lord]

The ways ofcourse!

[Edynol]

Or he could have used the ways.

[RandA lThor]

A Rant Lord beat you to it.

[Edynol]

I typed more. I win!

[RandA lThor]

The Draghkar is still a valid theory though, i think.

[Luckers]

My impression from Moiraine's interogation of Fain is that the knowledge of the ways did not come to him very specifically until in the cellar in Caemlyn. Additionally its never been suggested a draghkar could manage to carry someone over distance.

 

That being said we don't understand entirely what the Dark One did to Fain, though we do know he was driven to travel hard and fast, stopping only when exhaustion dropped him, and on his feet running again the second he regained conciousness. That compulsion, or for that matter his union with mordeth, or a mixture of both, may have lent him unnatural stamina--certainly we know that journey drove him mad and nearly killed him.

[Thrasymachus]

And don't forget that over long enough distances, a human being is actually faster than a horse. There are 100+ mile ultra-marathons held in the US where runners can compete against riders. And you're about as likely to see the fastest runners beat the fastest riders in races of that distance. Beating the boat from Shadar Logoth to Whitebridge would be tough, though, but IIRC, they tied up the boat most nights, so if Fain kept himself moving until he could no longer stand and didn't stop to eat/sleep/rest more than an hour or two a day, it's conceivable that he could beat the boat by that much.

[bsmnt23]

At this point, he was still the Dark One's special little bitch, though. He remembers some pretty rough treatment at the hands of Mydraals at this time. They could have simply dragged him from place to place or forced him to course the trail by whipping him when he slowed down.

[christiansch]

i guess tying the boat up at night would slow it down some,but still can't see how Fain beat it by a week. if he was carried by trollocs,might be possible.

[RandA lThor]

I guess the Ways are the best option now.

[Luckers]

I guess the Ways are the best option now.

 

Again, no, the Ways seem very unlikely based on Fain's own accounting to Moiraine, firstly in that by inference his first trip in the Ways was through the Waygate in Caemlyn...

 

He spoke of screaming when the Waygate opened in Caemlyn. The knowledge of how to do it was in his mind; he does not know how it came there; his hands moved of their own accord, burning with the fires of Ba'alzamon when he tried to stop them.

 

He 'knows not how it came to him' in Caemlyn, specifically. The inference is there that it was his first trip.

 

However there is more. The only Waygate in Shadar Logoth was in Shadar Logoth. Now consider the description of his experience....

 

Many Trollocs were slain, consumed by Mashadar and other things, including the Trolloc that held Fain's leash. He fled the city as if it were the Pit of Doom, at Shayol Shul. Fain believed he was free at last. He intended to run until Ba'alzamon could never find him again, to the ends of the earth if necessary. Imagine his horror when he discovered that the compulsion to hunt did not lessen. Instead, it grew stronger and sharper with every day that passed. He could not eat, except what he could scavenge while he hunted you-beetles and lizards snatched while he ran, half-rotten refuse dug from midden heaps in the dark of night-nor could he stop until exhaustion collapsed him like an empty sack. And as soon as he had strength to stand again, he was driven on.

 

He fled the city--which fits with Mordeth entering him, as Mordeth had to pass the walls with his victim (both Mordeth and Moiraine state this, as did Siuan later on)--he then travelled, running, scavanged--you cannot do that in the ways as they don't have beetles or lizards.

 

Finally there is no known Waygates anywhere near Whitebridge. The nearest three are in Manetheren, Aridhol and Caemlyn. If there was wouldn't Fain have used the Waygate to get from Whitebridge to Caemlyn? Yet he did not by his own account.

 

Of course he may have been lying to Moiraine, though I don't see why he would on such minor elements when he was truthful on other things.

 

No the simplest explanation is that whatever the Dark One did to him, perhaps combined with Mordeth's presence, drove him to almost inhuman effort. The compulsion kept him running where another would collapse, perhaps even kept him alive where another would die.

[1Brotherbill]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

[Mr Ares]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

[christiansch]

even giving Fain 'super' powers; i still think the best he could have done vs the boat is near equal. maybe with a supreme effort,a day ahead. remember,the boat is easily traveling at running speed( with current and rowers),possibly even faster. maybe at this point,RJ still didn't quite have all the 'bugs' out of the story.

[Thrasymachus]

A river doesn't run straight, neither does it always run at the same speed. It's entirely possible that Fain, cutting straight across the landscape, racing a boat on a fairly lazy river that wound a decent enough way out of the way, and running all out 20 hours a day, could have beaten that boat by that much time. In fact, we know that Shadar Logoth is just a bit north and east of Baerlon, along the southern shores of the River Arinelle. That was the river that Bayle Domon picked up Rand, Mat and Thom on. You can see the map here: http://images.wikia....rinelle_map.png

 

Now, you can see where Baerlon and Whitebridge are on that map, as well as the river. The Arinelle curves moves east for quite a way and even heads north for a bit and wriggles around in general before heading south into Whitebridge. The straight-line direction from Baerlon to Whitebridge is almost due south-east. I think it's pretty easy to see how Fain could beat the boat.

[christiansch]

Granted,the boat trip is longer,if Fain went directly. going through woods,etc.,Fain would have needed an incredible sense of direction. also foraging on the go is not easy(but possible). also,but not conclusive,we know that Fain,in the next book (tGH),kept pace with the horses, albeit with the help of trollocs. i guess if he still had trolloc help after SL,i could see him beating the boat,even though it was moving running speed a lot of the time. i know RJ tried to make the boat look like it was moving slowly,but i still think that Fain could not get there a week faster. i'd buy a few days with the detour. also,but not mentioned,it was spring (maybe a tad early);this would make the river run faster! if i recall ,Domon was happy to finally leave with the ice breaking up in Saldaea.

[Halleck]

He rode a darkhound. He's a short, skinny fellow and darkhounds are describes as being at least as large as ponies. So he rode a darkhound.

[RandA lThor]

I don't think Darkhounds give joy rides...

[1Brotherbill]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

 

Fain took an old road between SL and Whitebridge. Isn't Whitebridge itself a relic from the Age of Legends? Maybe there is a forgotten road between Whitebridge and SL.

 

And even though the map shows the river as running straight as an arrow. So does the map of the US show the Mississippi straight as and arrow. Rivers in the Wheel of Time might be just like the Mississippi in the southern US.

[Mr Ares]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

I am completely sure. There is nothing in my glossary (a fair while after the first printing) about a week being ten days, not for EotW (there is in LoC, though, which was the first to include it). Also, there is this from EotW 21: "but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source"

[1Brotherbill]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

I am completely sure. There is nothing in my glossary (a fair while after the first printing) about a week being ten days, not for EotW (there is in LoC, though, which was the first to include it). Also, there is this from EotW 21: "but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source"

 

 

You can take the quote in two ways. One proves that a week is ten days or you can say that ten days is longer than a week.

 

When I get home I'm going to look at the EotW glossary in my copy to see if it's in there. I can't remember when I got the book though it might have been after LoC came out however.

[Mr Ares]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

I am completely sure. There is nothing in my glossary (a fair while after the first printing) about a week being ten days, not for EotW (there is in LoC, though, which was the first to include it). Also, there is this from EotW 21: "but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source"

You can take the quote in two ways. One proves that a week is ten days or you can say that ten days is longer than a week.

I'd like to see your reasoning for the former interpretation.

[1Brotherbill]

Isn't a week in the Wheel of Time world ten days. So in the books when they use weeks and days that has to be taken into account. Also 13 month year and 28 day month for 364 day year. I'm about at that point in tEotW right now. So will fact check in a day or so.

It was not the case that a week was ten days when RJ started writing, that was something he added later.

 

Are you sure because it is in the glossary at the end of the book. Pretty sure that was in the first printing. I can't imagine that with all the holidays and such playing a major role in the core of the story line that the simple thing of a ten day week not being part of that.

I am completely sure. There is nothing in my glossary (a fair while after the first printing) about a week being ten days, not for EotW (there is in LoC, though, which was the first to include it). Also, there is this from EotW 21: "but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source"

You can take the quote in two ways. One proves that a week is ten days or you can say that ten days is longer than a week.

I'd like to see your reasoning for the former interpretation.

Really? Is it that hard of a statement to understand? If I told you in a week or seven days would you not understand that a week is seven days long?