There Goes the Neighborhood (Game Thread) - GAME OVER MAFIA WIN

[Arez Al'Loke]

Don't lynch Limi.. Yes I wanted to before, but Mynd gave a very thorough explanation as to why the lynch won't do much good.

[Myndrunner]

I think it is quite interesting that Limi is still at 8 votes. Now for BG....

 

I think leaving the Darthe/Limi WIFOM in the air to be a bad idea. One way or the other I want to resolve that situation. With at least 2 mafia teams, we can't have suspicion on our Cop all day long. I still think we'd learn a lot more from lynching Darthe since he has a "backup" but I can see the logic in not immediately killing him on the off chance he is telling the truth. But if Limi really is Vanilla Town, then it isn't a huge loss and we know that Darthe told the truth at least once and the Peace was spreading WIFOM lies.

Does it have to be resolved right now? Darthe is an uncontested cop. He viewed Limi as town. Let's wait until Darthe views someone as scum before we get fired up to prove anything. Besides, Limi's lynch would be an easy dogpile for both mafia teams. We have a much better chance nailing a scum by basing our lynch on how people voted and didn't vote the three revealed scum we've already whacked.

 

I still don't trust Mynd 2.0's nighttime ploys of pretending to be SK. I think that given the circumstances of this game, 2+ teams mafia, a dead Vig. etc. that it was a rouse to get opinions on who to NK. Then he could NK whomever he pleased that would shed the most foul light on whoever he pleased, claim vanilla town, and say "interesting X person died when Y person suggested them." Blah blah. As such, I'm not giving much credence to his casings currently.

What do you mean STILL don't trust? You ate that bullshanks up like the cheese biscuits at Red Lobster when I first fake-claimed! You were also the first one out the gate to come after me when Nyn was killed off, claiming that I was dangerous and needed to be put down if I am gonna kill townies. Lemme put it this way, if I was a SK and I claim to know who the healer is, that player would have been my target. I think I have a pretty good idea who our healer is, but I ain't saying anything more than that.

 

Full disclosure: I am vanilla town. I really did feel QUITE certain that Nolder was lying day one and I was wrong. It was mud on my face. Either way I figured I could use the WIFOM to draw kills to myself by implying that my role was something more important than it really was since I'm less important than others. I didn't reveal right away cause a bunch of people said they thought it would be a bad idea and I could roll with that, plus it helped me to see who wanted to push me to reveal like Limi is doing now.

So, you admit to fake claiming a role? Why did you want to draw kills to yourself if you doubted Nolder's claim? Pretty risky, even by my standards.

[Myndrunner]

Oh yeah.....Nyn was scum!

[Aiel Heart]

Hey guys.... I'm sick so I might be dropping out of this game... Or I might just be quiet for a few days. Not sure which yet. My head is too swimmy to wade through this right now....

[Little Miss]

Darthe - I've already said my words and thoughts on people here.

 

And I still think BG is getting scummier as the game goes on.

 

As well as Marsh, Arez, Key, Player, and possibly people tinkling me, Tina and Basel.

[bgrishinko]

I think it is quite interesting that Limi is still at 8 votes. Now for BG....

 

I think leaving the Darthe/Limi WIFOM in the air to be a bad idea. One way or the other I want to resolve that situation. With at least 2 mafia teams, we can't have suspicion on our Cop all day long. I still think we'd learn a lot more from lynching Darthe since he has a "backup" but I can see the logic in not immediately killing him on the off chance he is telling the truth. But if Limi really is Vanilla Town, then it isn't a huge loss and we know that Darthe told the truth at least once and the Peace was spreading WIFOM lies.

Does it have to be resolved right now? Darthe is an uncontested cop. He viewed Limi as town. Let's wait until Darthe views someone as scum before we get fired up to prove anything. Besides, Limi's lynch would be an easy dogpile for both mafia teams. We have a much better chance nailing a scum by basing our lynch on how people voted and didn't vote the three revealed scum we've already whacked.

 

I'd prefer it resolved so I would know whether to trust Darthe.

 

I still don't trust Mynd 2.0's nighttime ploys of pretending to be SK. I think that given the circumstances of this game, 2+ teams mafia, a dead Vig. etc. that it was a rouse to get opinions on who to NK. Then he could NK whomever he pleased that would shed the most foul light on whoever he pleased, claim vanilla town, and say "interesting X person died when Y person suggested them." Blah blah. As such, I'm not giving much credence to his casings currently.

What do you mean STILL don't trust? You ate that bullshanks up like the cheese biscuits at Red Lobster when I first fake-claimed! You were also the first one out the gate to come after me when Nyn was killed off, claiming that I was dangerous and needed to be put down if I am gonna kill townies. Lemme put it this way, if I was a SK and I claim to know who the healer is, that player would have been my target. I think I have a pretty good idea who our healer is, but I ain't saying anything more than that.

 

 

First of all, those cheese biscuits at Red Lobster are the greatest food I've ever eaten. If Red Lobster had a better business model, they'd make you pay for them. Cause I would too. I was first out of the gate. You claimed SK (which could be a cover for mafia kill, but ultimately it is the same, ability to kill that is not aligned) and responding to your requests was the only reasonable reaction. It is a chance to control your kill if it really exists.

 

Full disclosure: I am vanilla town. I really did feel QUITE certain that Nolder was lying day one and I was wrong. It was mud on my face. Either way I figured I could use the WIFOM to draw kills to myself by implying that my role was something more important than it really was since I'm less important than others. I didn't reveal right away cause a bunch of people said they thought it would be a bad idea and I could roll with that, plus it helped me to see who wanted to push me to reveal like Limi is doing now.

So, you admit to fake claiming a role? Why did you want to draw kills to yourself if you doubted Nolder's claim? Pretty risky, even by my standards.

 

I never actually claimed a role. I said I was quite sure Nolder was lying. I said I'd role claim if I was wrong. I held off for a while at the request of others, which suited my purposes just fine to keep up the ruse. I wanted to draw kills to myself because I'm vanilla and somebody's gotta die at night. Whether I was right or wrong about Nolder is irrelevant on that front.

So no, I never fake claimed a role. I just fake implied. You on the other hand, outright fake claimed a role.

[Myndrunner]

BG, I fake implied as well. If you noticed, I said "A Man could...." I didn't say I did anything. Besides, Nyn was SCUM! Your argument is invalid anyways, but its even worse that she flipped scum not town.

 

I share your desire to swing from the fences when we are both vanilla town, but your fake claim and mine are essentially the same for what I gather are the same reasons. Pot and kettle all day long.

 

As far as trusting Darthe, why not? He is uncontested and I doubt this game would not have any finders in it. If he found Limi as scum, I can see lynching her because the odds are good that he is telling the truth. But he didn't, he viewed her as vanilla town, which she probably is.

 

And this is what kills me about all this. We are basing our decision off something full of assumptions instead of the hardcore tangible evidence that sits right in front of us. We have three Mod confirmed scum that have died one way or another. Why are we ignoring how they stacked up in relation to the votes cast since Day 1 began?

[Darthe]

Aye. Limi if you get to nine I will do exactly as I said, but for now I would much rather the town look at Arez or BG. Perhaps even at someone completely unscummy. I am going back through all of the Scum's posts now, with a bigger focus on the italian mob.

[bgrishinko]

True. You did say "A man..."

 

Okay, I'm willing to listen to reason. Unvote I'm going to go back and look for ties to our known mafia team players. The Piano case seems a bit thin currently, but only cause he's been absent so much. Maybe on re-read something else will stand out.

[Kaylee]

WoT Part 1:

 

There have been some things about Limi and Darthe that have pinged me....but after some thought, and reading the thoughts of others, have decided to lay that aside for now. Going with the least amount of assumptions would mean, as Mynd pointed out, Limi is most likely town and Darthe is Sheriff. (That and he is still uncontested). Besides we can always look at one or both of them later, as was also pointed out previously.

 

People that have stood out to me the most are:

Mynd:

I'm really starting to cool on the whole lynch Limi idea. First of all, we can always lynch her later on if we begin to doubt her. Even if she is scum, there are others out there waiting in the wings. The thing is, Darthe is likely telling the truth and therefore Limi is likely town. Sure, we've already bagged 3 out of likely 8 non-townies, so we can risk a townie lynch, but we do have plenty of time to case others.

 

In regards to BG, I have a mixed read on him. There are things he has said that lead me to believe he is a value to the town, but there are things he had DONE that lead me to believe he's scum. He has played quite aggressively all game, voting players right out of the gate at times. He went right after me when Nyn was killed, almost as if he knew she was going to die and didn't pause to read her coroner report to celebrate the scum kill. He could be swinging from the fences because he's vanilla town and has nothing to lose (just like me) or he's scum trying to force a quick lynch.

 

I am also with Limi in regards to Key. She is playing very anti-Key in this game, and I haven't seen her do a proper casing all game.

 

I will reiterate that lynching Darthe is not stupid or necessarily anti-town; however, there is information out there that should lead all town players to the conclusion that he is likely telling the truth. Remember, the theory with the least amount of assumptions is likely the truth.

 

I am pretty sure I know who our Deputy is. I hope the mafia haven't figured it out yet, but in case they saw what I saw, then we really need to keep Darthe in the game. Still, they would be foolish to kill the Deputy in that if it is who I think it is, that person's death would only validate Darthe AND Limi. So they are kinda at a mafia standoff. They can't kill Darthe, Limi, or the Deputy because it would prove the other two.

 

I also think I know who our healer is, but I could be wrong. Very wrong. Further investigations into this persons postings leads me to believe he might be rolefishing. Either way, there are bigger fish to potentially fry at this time.

 

I agree about Iron and Arez, but I don't see them as erratic as Key and BG. I'm thinking one of the latter would be a better lynch. Gonna go dig up the voting stats again.....

Here's more wifom for you..... What if Peace and Darthe were working together? Peace is getting alot of heat and wifoms about a watcher/tracker person who saw Limi visit Mynd 1.0 and then Darthe claims sheriff and picks Limi to view and goes on about deputys and fancy mega roles. Or perhaps Limi was working with one of them? She doesn't say Peace is lying... she says it must have been redirected.

 

Also, Aiel Heart... You ask if maybe the town is spanish. (my pm didn't say anything about it) So you are asking if the town nightkilled Nyn?

 

Also, Mynd, you gave even the laziest of mafia a big heads up on the potential deputy and healer... why? Darthe then goes even further to speculate your speculation. I'm with Iron that this game is insane. :P

I agree with Nae on this..the parts I've bolded just really stood out to me. I was also wondering why you chose to point this out in this manner?

 

You seem very bent on ignoring the issue at hand.

Actually, I was one of the biggest pushers for Darthe and then Limi. 90% of my last post was all about them. I am not ignoring anything, I just no longer believe either lynch is the right move. Allow me to clarify...

 

There is no possible way that everyone could just set aside a thing like this. And I didn't suggest lynching Darthe, I have never done so. I think that anyone who fought for lynching Darthe are worth keeping an eye on.

 

But keeping Limi alive now will only serve to confuse us further.. Sure, if Darthe had viewed a scum, I would prefer lynching him/her instead. But I fail to see how changing tracks now would resolve the issue?

Think about it. Darthe's claim could only be true because it would have been foolish for him to fake claim any kind of finder role because 1) he would have easily been countered, 2) he would be foolish to bluff his viewing of Limi to include "vanilla" unless it was true, 3) Sheriff is such a specific role to claim it is likely true. Darthe could be completely full of bullshanks, but we risk losing much more than we gain by his lynch.

 

Think about it when three players claim to be masons. It only takes one of them to be lynched to prove the other two as telling the truth. Mafia don't want to kill any of them because it would validate the other two, nor do they want to lynch them for the same reason. It would be incredibly foolish for mafia to make such a claim because it only takes one death to prove them all lying liars who lie. Therefore, it behooves the town to not lynch any of them and assume they are town at least for the moment.

 

In regards to lynching Limi, we have to go with the theory that makes the least amount of assumptions. If we are to assume Darthe is telling the truth then we also need to assume that his viewing of Limi is correct. Its interesting that Limi is the one who brings up the whole theory that there is a redirection power, because that could go both ways. If Darthe viewed Limi as scum, then we likely would already have lynched her by now. Darthe could be lying, Limi could be scum, but it is likely that both Darthe and Limi are town.

 

Finally, consider the source of the counter argument. Peacesells, who flipped scum, WIFOM'd the hell out of us with his dying claim. I do believe there is some kind of tracker or watcher power on the mafia team, but Peace and his team risk nothing by pointing the finger at any player who is not on their own team. Therefore, LImi is either a member of the Italian Mob or she is town. I think the latter

 

Proper scum hunting is about going with the most likely scum, not the least likely scum. Darthe and Limi are more likely town than any of us.

 

Could you clarify your evidence against Piano?

 

He hasn't been playing as active as he normally is, yet he swoops in when summoned to vote near the end of every lynch train. He remained on the Darthe lynch until all of a sudden he jumped over to Limi without commenting on anything else. I believe that Pianoplayer is simply following the orders of his scum team.

Here he explains why he went from focusing on Darthe and Limi. This made sense to me. He then gives his reasons for looking at Piano.

I'm leaning toward Mynd being town atm due to his casings. At least atm.

[Ironeyes]

Welcome back, Kaylee.

[Arez Al'Loke]

I love playing with Mynd, because it doesn't matter if he's townie or mafia, it's always fun ^^ And he's really open minded, if someone gives him a good explanation, he'll agree with what you're saying, even if he risks being voted afterwards =P

[Arez Al'Loke]

Although I think it's rather odd of him to be so quick to vote someone he suspects without talking with the rest of us first.

[Kaylee]

WoT Part 2

 

Arez: starts off wanting a Limi lynch.

Darthe.. You are really lucky that most of us believe you're a cop or atleast good for town. Because the last couple of things you've written ... Pings alot.

 

So I'm wanting the lynch on Limi more than ever now. You have officially lost my trust, and I'm going to need more proof of who you say you are before you regain it.

There's to much going on around you Darthe.. If we don't solve this, we can't focus on anything else. There will always be to much sucpicion hanging around your every word.

 

I can't say I'm happy with lynching a possible townie, just to vet you. It's not how I usually play my game. But this lynch is VERY important.

This stood out to me...you say this lynch is VERY important..do you mean a lynch on D3 or her particular lynch?

... Fine.. I guess I'll have to do a bloody re-read again to see what's so scummy about him. I would have prefered it the lazy way and let Darthe make a case, but I can't wait.

What happened to the VERY important lynch?

Unvote

 

I guess that I shouldn't be blinded by what gets the most attention. This would be a lose/lose situation for the scum if either of them are mafia. They're not that stupid I hope, would take all fun out of the game.

 

Although, to me the reasons for lynching Piano are not any better than the reasons for lynching Limi. Do you think the scum wouldn't tell Piano that he needs to increase his post count if he was following orders?

 

To me he seems like a lazy arse townie, based on the information you told me so far.

 

Does his reread then states he thinks Piano is more likely a lazy townie.

 

 

And Piano...not just the low post count because that covers a few players, including me I know. I'm not sure what exactly, though the timing of his posts for voting, as Mynd pointed out, does seem suspicious.

 

I will be back on tonight. I'm not in a hurry to vote because we have time and I don't think rushing into a lynch is best for town.

[Kaylee]

Welcome back, Kaylee.

 

Thanks Iron. I will do my best to be more active from now on.

[Myndrunner]

Welcome back, Kaylee.

 

Thanks Iron. I will do my best to be more active from now on.

 

You're so SHINY!

[bgrishinko]

Finished going over Day 1: A few things that jumped out to me.

 

Is that why you didn't build a list like you stated when you made your proposal? Cause you'd be on it?

 

So in fact it was a trumped up play to try and lynch EP?

 

Mynd, that's a scummy play. I don't know how to do the red vote from my phone but once I figure it out I'll be adding my vote to you.

unvote Vote Mynd. I

 

I understand that you can be annoyed by inactive players. But what I don´t understand is why you need to bring it up over and over again in another game.

 

I agree with Peacesells too. Unvote. Vote Mynd.

 

Right after Peace voted Mynd Tina follows it up with a close vote basically just echoing Peace. Seems odd in retrospect.

 

Oh, sorry about the missunderstanding, that was a joke vote

 

Unvote

 

I don't remember who wrote something like this "Mynd votes EP based on a mathematical equation, but did not include himself on that list, which would make him the most likely candidate to vote on"

 

And then you (Mynd) say that you didn't include yourself on that list because "I know that I'm town". I do not like that statement, it's hypocritical.

I'm going to vote you based on this reason, but It doesn't apply to me because I'm above suspicion.

 

Vote Mynd

 

Arez's logic here makes absolutely no sense and it feels like a reach for a different reason to vote Mynd 1.0 than what has already been established.

 

Guess what?? Mynd was right. Go figure. Anyone want to continue to vote the man? I refer you all to my previous post kthxs.

 

You say this as though Mynd being correct about EP automatically makes him town. I'm still open to the possibility of him being scum, either as sacrificing EP to vet himself as town, or as a competing scum. EP was specified as a member of the Italian Mob. I'd find that oddly specific if there was only one scum team. In a game with this many players, Mynd could be a mafia from a non-Italian faction.

 

Okay, here Basel derives the idea of multiple factions. Maybe this was lucky idle speculation, maybe not. That isn't my point of quoting this though: See below a few quotes from Key not long after Basel makes this statement:

 

Wow, Idk what happened there. My post should read:

 

Considering how EP flipped,I think Aiel Heart (formerly Levity), nolder, and Basel should be looked at closer. Aiel Heart because Levity came out in the beginning defending EP. nolder similarly, and Basel because he was the first to vote Mynd for his playstyle being "off", which started a huge chain reaction.

 

...

 

Guess what?? Mynd was right. Go figure. Anyone want to continue to vote the man? I refer you all to my previous post kthxs.

 

You say this as though Mynd being correct about EP automatically makes him town. I'm still open to the possibility of him being scum, either as sacrificing EP to vet himself as town, or as a competing scum. EP was specified as a member of the Italian Mob. I'd find that oddly specific if there was only one scum team. In a game with this many players, Mynd could be a mafia from a non-Italian faction.

 

I find your belief in two mafia teams rather “oddly specific” almost as if you have outside knowledge that the rest of us do not...

 

 

Not sure on the nolder thing yet. He tends to be rather tenacious when he has an idea, so I'm not sure if him arguing to what seems like the better end is really a scumtell or not.

 

I find it odd that Key didn't mention this the first time considering the timestamps. She talked about reasons she thought Basel was fishy, but didn't bring this up till later. Maybe she just missed the fact that he posted about it immediately before hand, but the ending ellipse on this gives the feeling of wanting to set up Basel for later on when it became sufficiently obvious there were two teams. I think Key knew there were two teams and wanted to be able to go back and pin it on Basel here.

 

So after a review of D1 with new eyes:

 

Vote Key, with a new FoS at Tina & Arez.

[SBoydW]

Limi (7) - Kae, Basel, iron, Key, Hoof, Razen, Player

Darthe (1) - Aiel Heart

Piano (1) - Mynd

Key (1) - BG

 

 

19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

 

http://www.timeandda...in=&sec=&p0=412

[Myndrunner]

How much you wanna bet BG is scum and either Tina or Arez is with him?

[Arez Al'Loke]

I wouldn't bet much at all..

[bgrishinko]

How much you wanna bet BG is scum and either Tina or Arez is with him?

 

Um.... I don't think so Tim.

[keyholder21]

I'm in a break at a meeting, so I'll be back later with more in depth response and a case.

 

BG - Grasping at straws? I state in the first post that I want to go back and look at him more in depth, so that's what I did and that's when that stuck out to me. Things don't always jump out at first read through when someone is trying to catch up with the game.

[keyholder21]

Stupid phone!

 

Furthermore, I thought that was a big deal when I did notice it and thus I btought it up. The ellipsis was just trying to save the length of the post by deleting part of it that had nothing to do with my argument. It's an often uses tactic in writing.

[bgrishinko]

Its Mafia. Grasping at straws is how you find scum. I just thought it interesting it was the post literally RIGHT before your post and you didn't notice it.

[Myndrunner]

Its Mafia. Grasping at straws is how you find scum. I just thought it interesting it was the post literally RIGHT before your post and you didn't notice it.

 

Um.....no.