The 3 ta'veren and dealing with women

[Maleshub]

It was mildly amusing reading how each of the 3 ta'veren think the other two know how to deal with women. Who do you think is the best at dealing with women, romantically and non-romantically? And why?

 

Have fun!

 

I voted for Mat and will explain more reasons later. But one of the main reasons is how he handled the explosive mixture of women over a period of two months during his escape from Ebou Dar. He had Seanchan sul'dam, Tuon, Aes Sedai, Leilwin, Aludra, and the rest of the women. And he managed to make it to Andor without major confrontations that hindered his plan.

 

And his courtship with Tuon is just a great and wonderful reading. (I read it twice over the past three days). "A Cluster of Rosebuds," "Dragons' eggs," A Hell in Maderin," "As if the World were Fog," "Under an Oak," and "Prince of the Ravens" are among my favorite chapters.

[bsmnt23]

Strictly speaking with a (ahem) bodycount, Mat is number one with a bullet. I mean our boy Rand does ok with his 3, but Perrin is as bad at dealing with women as he is anything else not directly related to hammering iron at a forge. What is he good for again?

[Maleshub]

Strictly speaking with a (ahem) bodycount, Mat is number one with a bullet.

 

What did Tylin say? "If that is what being ta'veren is about, then you must be very popular .... "

[yoniy0]

Mat's approach to women boils down to being fetching at first glance, and behaving like a decent human being in general. It works with women who attach themselves to him, but, well, other than that and brief flings it does little good. Perrin, well, we don't really know. Rand, however, is the only one who showed some savvy about it. I think. If any of them had to plan a seduction (of a stranger or their partner, it makes little difference), Rand is the only one I can picture coming up with a plan (Mat would just smile his best smile, which is nice, but it doesn't show any real facility; Perrin, I can't fathom what he would've done in that situation).

[Finnssss22]

Mat's approach to women boils down to being fetching at first glance, and behaving like a decent human being in general. It works with women who attach themselves to him, but, well, other than that and brief flings it does little good. Perrin, well, we don't really know. Rand, however, is the only one who showed some savvy about it. I think. If any of them had to plan a seduction (of a stranger or their partner, it makes little difference), Rand is the only one I can picture coming up with a plan (Mat would just smile his best smile, which is nice, but it doesn't show any real facility; Perrin, I can't fathom what he would've done in that situation).

 

 

I don't know about that Yoniy0. Mat's courting of Tuon was pretty integrate and he realised pretty quickly that he was going to have to plan and use strategy to accomplish it, which he did.

He gathered as much intelligence as he could from

The bringing of a gifts, then none, then the silk rosebud that he didn't give to anyone, just laid it on the table. Tuon even remarked that he played much better than she had thought.

Then the horses, where he had one for Selucia around the corner just in case.

[David Selig]

Rand is lucky he's really handsome and women usually make the first step towards him, he's pretty clueless when it comes to women even by the really generous WoT standards. Remember how he was all "I am sorry I forced myself on you" after he had sex with Min even though she literally tore his clothes off so they can start the sex ASAP?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Rand is 420 years old, LTT had a wife and children, and even had a relationship with Lanfear and managed to survive that.

 

I think Rand has a lot more experience than the others.

 

Mat gets by on his charm, that does not mean he knows how to deal with women.

 

And Perrin is well.... we have seen how he deals with women...

[Vardar]

Rand is 420 years old, LTT had a wife and children, and even had a relationship with Lanfear and managed to survive that.

 

I think Rand has a lot more experience than the others.

 

Mat gets by on his charm, that does not mean he knows how to deal with women.

 

And Perrin is well.... we have seen how he deals with women...

Mat has more than charm. Well, I guess you can say he has just charm, but it's more like CHARM. Mat takes Charm to a new level. The only thing he can't handle is a woman he doesn't want chasing him. Other than that, Mat can get any woman he wants, or just get a woman to do what he wants. Rand has 400 years of experience dealing with women, but Mat has 10 times that in his head! The only woman who gets the better of Mat is Tylin, and that's just because she acted outside her station and took him by surprise. Don't be fooled, he could have ended that if he wanted, but he really wanted too deep down inside, he just wouldn't admit it to himself.

 

Rand and Perrin mostly get by on looks, and Perrin is completely clueless.

[Maleshub]

Just a note on how Rand handles some women issues:

- Selande: threatens with the power and madness (Yeah, she's one of Colavaere's many; but still!)

- Aviendha: looks away roughly and doesn't even say goodbye (but I give him slack for it since he's traumatized by seeing her dead when Rahvin struck in Caemlyn)

- Two Rivers girls after Alanna raped his mind: he uses the power on the helpless girls and scares the living light out of them

- Maidens: To drive the message across that he is done with Aviendha, he keeps Min on his lap (he basically picks up the first woman that throws herself at him)

 

The first and last are the ones I hold most against Rand. Both are purely classless!

[mandersen]

I chose Mat, even though in ways he's just as clueless as the other two. I think he understands women in general (at least, how to win them over), but not individuals. He's no better at reading non-verbal cues than the next guy. Or maybe it's not that he understands women, it's just he understands what works and plays to his strengths. That plus confidence and charisma. I also chose him because he's the most entertaining in his relationships.

[Suttree]

Doesn't totally apply but I always smile at this quote...

 

 

 

Robert Jordan

 

Anyway, Mat has indeed had far and away more MPS experience than our other young heroes, and intends to get much much more. I believe the quote was something like "The world is full of beautiful women, and Mat wants to romp barefoot though them all. (or was that with them all. same thing.) He's slept with lots of women; he's slept with women old enough to be his mother..."

 

Also, Mat makes the Aes Sedai nervous.

[Vardar]

Doesn't totally apply but I always smile at this quote...

 

 

 

Robert Jordan

 

Anyway, Mat has indeed had far and away more MPS experience than our other young heroes, and intends to get much much more. I believe the quote was something like "The world is full of beautiful women, and Mat wants to romp barefoot though them all. (or was that with them all. same thing.) He's slept with lots of women; he's slept with women old enough to be his mother..."

 

Also, Mat makes the Aes Sedai nervous.

 

You know that's something to think on. With Rand and Perrin, you can tell it was their first times. With Mat, when he gets to the big city he makes it seem like he was "pinching" ladies his whole life. Was Mat really getting around the village like that? (And whats MPS btw)

[RandA lThor]

Rand does have three girls at once....

[Suttree]

(And whats MPS btw)

 

Multiple partner...

[Knivy]

Yes, he does. But all three were his before he even gave them a second glance. It was his Ta'verenness that threw them at him, not his skill with women

 

EDIT: about Rand. I was slow.

[Kudzu]

Doesn't totally apply but I always smile at this quote...

 

 

 

Robert Jordan

 

Anyway, Mat has indeed had far and away more MPS experience than our other young heroes, and intends to get much much more. I believe the quote was something like "The world is full of beautiful women, and Mat wants to romp barefoot though them all. (or was that with them all. same thing.) He's slept with lots of women; he's slept with women old enough to be his mother..."

 

Also, Mat makes the Aes Sedai nervous.

 

When did Mat sleep with lots of women? If RJ said it, it must true but for me it doesn't really wash with how the books read. Unless he's referring to Mat's extra memories. I got the impression they were all virgins when they left Emond's Field, at least that's how it seemed to me whenever they were discussing women in the early books. Melindhra and Tylin are the only women he is shown having sexual encounters with. There could have been various bar maids and palace servants along the way I guess, but the furthest he is ever described getting with them is kissing, cuddling and dancing.

[Suttree]

There could have been various bar maids and palace servants along the way I guess, but the furthest he is ever described getting with them is kissing, cuddling and dancing.

 

Various bar maids and palace servants, his time in Tear etc. As for the rest it doesn't need to be spelled out. This is the WoT(the general tone is much more YA and subdued than most modern fantasy such as Martin, Abercrombie, Bakker etc.) a kiss and a cuddle is a euphemism for sex.

[sleepinghour]

(And whats MPS btw)

 

Multiple partner...

 

In this case, it just means "Mad Passionate Sex." People on the old WoT Usenet group (rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan) were fond of using that term.

[Vardar]

There could have been various bar maids and palace servants along the way I guess, but the furthest he is ever described getting with them is kissing, cuddling and dancing.

 

Various bar maids and palace servants, his time in Tear etc. As for the rest it doesn't need to be spelled out. This is the WoT(the general tone is much more YA and subdued than most modern fantasy such as Martin, Abercrombie, Bakker etc.) a kiss and a cuddle is a euphemism for sex.

 

This. Everytime he talks about "turning a pretty lady across his knee" or "Snuggling with a wench" he's basically saying he "hit that." Sure the language is obscure, but he's getting it in. I still want to know if they were virgins when they left Edmonds Field. Mat seems to have a way with the ladies that could not have been developed that quickly. I mean adults always refer to him as a young scamp, I think Mat was bedding the ladies in two rivers.

[TristanWebb]

Mat says that he hadn't been in a ladies bedchamber, or atleast he didn't remember it and surely the dagger wouldn't be cruel enough to take that from him in tDR I think, after he had been healed atleast.

[Maleshub]

It is most likely that Mat lost his virginity during his stay in the Stone of Tear prior to going to Rhuidean. Before that, he was under the influence of the dagger or recovering from its healing. I don't think he did much carousing during his mission to deliver Elayne's letter or rescue her from Comar, or during his stay in Tear before going into the Stone to save the Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne.

 

From then on, he's been a "rogue for women" as Setalle Anan told Tuon!

[Barid Bel Medar]

What is the definition of "dealing with women" though?

 

1. Are we simply talking about convincing them to sleep with them?

 

2. Or are we talking about understanding them, so they don't say the wrong thing and get a good glaring at?

 

3. Or understanding how they think?

 

4. Which one has a more desirable personality for a woman?

 

5. Making them think they are not a stupid woolhead?

 

In each case it is different.

 

1. Definitely Mat, although Rand and Perrin haven't really tried.

2. I think ToM Rand. Mat and Perrin both say the wrong things constantly, still.

3. A hard one, but I would say Rand again. Mat has some...eccentric views, and Perrin just has no clue.

4. Well this one is subjective, although I would have to say, in a very, very, very general sense, Perrin, since Mat and Rand often clash with women, Perrin is the gentle giant, and Nynaeve/Egwene etc... have always thought of Perrin as the more sensible, cool-headed one.

5. I would have to say ToM Rand, although Min still thinks of him as a fool when he meets the Borderlander's, but in general, everyone is astounded by the new Rand, and thinks of him as pretty "wise", I suppose.

[Suttree]

What is the definition of "dealing with women" though?

 

1. Are we simply talking about convincing them to sleep with them?

 

This obvs

[TristanWebb]

It depends on which women too. It is really between Rand and Mat, Perrin is only good with one woman we have seen: the Seanchan commander who helped him with the rescue.

 

When it comes to commoners or women who just want to live their lives, Mat is clearly the victor. When it comes to women with power and their own goals Rand wins, but mostly just because he has had more practice at it.

 

Mat's way with women of power is to let them do whatever they feel like unless/until it affects him directly then he just gets stubborn and lets his luck/tavaerness get him out of doing what they want him to. Rand has to actually deal with women who want to do things against his plans.

[Barid Bel Medar]

What is the definition of "dealing with women" though?

 

1. Are we simply talking about convincing them to sleep with them?

 

This obvs

 

Heh, I thought so.