breaking the seals

[RandA lThor]

Hey, I was wondering what would happen when a memory of light started off. Would they just go off and continue the whole meeting of the nations and rand breaking the seals, because that would be an epic start. Also, this is a thread for theories on what is going to happen when this happens? Who is going to take whose side, and is there going to be a fight? I kind of wanted to start this, I'm sorry if this has already been done a lot, I'm a new member. I'm just interested about what will happen at that time.

[rand4747]

The prologue would probably include something else but I would think chapter 1 may start with the meeting, of course theres still matts loose ends to tie up, hes behind most of the others, but he may not make it to the meeting, at least in time so it may be the meeting then him (maybe going to caemlyn and dealing with that) then him going north.

 

Im really not sure who will take whos side, i think the majority of people are fence sitters want something done but dont know enough. Doubt there will be a fight though

[XXX]

They have to catch up with Matt's and Moir's timeline and then solve the BT issue. So I think we will get to FoM only quite a bit into the book.

[Maleshub]

There is also the Black Tower mess that is behind schedule, which might be handled before the details of the meeting in the Field of Merrilor unfold.

[TheAngryDruid]

The BT and Matt and Mo have to catch up. And Aviendha is still wandering around as well. She has to get back before Rand breaks the seals and any agreement is made at FoM. Haven't heard or seen Fain in a while, and very littel from Tuon or the Seanchan that Perrin befriended (Tylee). Come to think of it, Egeanin and Co are headed to the Tower. Oh, and a Demandred reveal. And Loial has been absent for far too long.

 

That's sounds like a good Prologue: Loial, Pevara, Fain, Egeanin, Tylee, Demandred, Aviendha, Logain.

[DaoineSidhe]

Hrm... Beginnings... Well I'd say that most likely the beginning is going to start with a non-main POV character. This has been a common opening for too long in the series, I think, for it to change in this last book. I would really like to see Loial addressing the Stump to start off the whole shibang...

 

And BT and Mat/Mo/Thom need to catch up, as has been said.

 

As far as the seals, I tend to think that regardless of what Egwene thinks, Rand and Perrins' (who seems to strongly lean towards breaking seals as well) ta'veren nature will cause them to win the argument and stop the discussion before any fighting can occur. There is just too much else that needs to happen for the FoM staging to take up too much space in this book. As such, while there will be initial tension, it is something that will be resolved fairly quickly, I think, and without much (if any) bloodshed.

 

I also really like the idea of Morainne showing up and taking Rand's side, and her just slapping Amyrlin Egwene down. Afterall, her best friend being Amyrlin didn't make her any more inclined to obey, why would she start doing it for someone whom she started down the Aes Sedai path? As much as I like the growth of Egwene in the last couple of books, I've also been getting the feeling that she is becoming a bit too arrogant for her own good. After all these good acts, I feel a bit of a reality check is due for her, and FoM is perfectly placed to provide it, at the hands of either Rand and Perrin (with other supporting characters, but them mainly), or perhaps even better, at the hands of Morainne.

[Maleshub]

The BT and Matt and Mo have to catch up. And Aviendha is still wandering around as well. She has to get back before Rand breaks the seals and any agreement is made at FoM. Haven't heard or seen Fain in a while, and very littel from Tuon or the Seanchan that Perrin befriended (Tylee). Come to think of it, Egeanin and Co are headed to the Tower. Oh, and a Demandred reveal. And Loial has been absent for far too long.

 

That's sounds like a good Prologue: Loial, Pevara, Fain, Egeanin, Tylee, Demandred, Aviendha, Logain.

 

Thanks for reminding me of Aviendha. She has a role to play since the Aiel are at the Field of Merrilor as well. As to Leilwin/Egeanin and co., we know that they reached Tar Valon before Egwene left for the Field of Merrilor. Setalle Anan tells Mat that Joline wrote to say that they arrived safely. So, I think the White Tower is more prepared to deal with the upcoming Seanchan attack than we read in the books. At least, Egwene has Bethamin and Seta as novices/accepted; and she has Egeanin's knowledge of Seanchan military at hand now. She will probably advise the White Tower and Bryne/Chubian (sp) on what the Seanchan will throw against Tar Valon.

 

Hrm... Beginnings... Well I'd say that most likely the beginning is going to start with a non-main POV character. This has been a common opening for too long in the series, I think, for it to change in this last book. I would really like to see Loial addressing the Stump to start off the whole shibang...

 

And BT and Mat/Mo/Thom need to catch up, as has been said.

 

As far as the seals, I tend to think that regardless of what Egwene thinks, Rand and Perrins' (who seems to strongly lean towards breaking seals as well) ta'veren nature will cause them to win the argument and stop the discussion before any fighting can occur. There is just too much else that needs to happen for the FoM staging to take up too much space in this book. As such, while there will be initial tension, it is something that will be resolved fairly quickly, I think, and without much (if any) bloodshed.

 

I also really like the idea of Morainne showing up and taking Rand's side, and her just slapping Amyrlin Egwene down. Afterall, her best friend being Amyrlin didn't make her any more inclined to obey, why would she start doing it for someone whom she started down the Aes Sedai path? As much as I like the growth of Egwene in the last couple of books, I've also been getting the feeling that she is becoming a bit too arrogant for her own good. After all these good acts, I feel a bit of a reality check is due for her, and FoM is perfectly placed to provide it, at the hands of either Rand and Perrin (with other supporting characters, but them mainly), or perhaps even better, at the hands of Morainne.

 

Min's viewing tells us that Rand will mostly likely fail without Moiraine. She will probably have a role to play in figuring out what to do after breaking the seal; or in securing White Tower support for Rand. This is one reunion I'm most looking forward to.

[RandA lThor]

Wow, lots of good theories, I just started thinking about the possibility of Aviendha, Moiraine, Loial, and all the other people who were gone coming back to take Rand's side.

[yoniy0]

Don't forget, we never saw Rand get out of his Ba'alzamon Dream, Perrin said he meant to check on the BT that very same night (Slayer is most likely there now, guarding the second Dreamspike), all the while Caemlyn is burning, and the Seanchan prepare to launch a full-fledged attack on the WT. I doubt events at the FoM will have time to develop the way Rand (or Egwene) has planned.

 

Oh, and I moved this topic.

[Finnssss22]

I think it's really hard to predict how it's going to start out.

We already know that the BT timeline is going to get cleaned up very early because BS told us that it has to be caught up before getting to the rest.

 

The interesting thing though is that this is the first time we have been left off with a cliffhanger(s).

 

I think the FoM meeting will happen fairly quickly into the book. Just like the BT timeline, really, it has to for the rest of the story to progress.

[rand4747]

I do think it may start at the fields but then will flash over to other stuff and maybe the fields stuff will be interupted, it certainly wont be concluded and the attack starts for a good few chapters, otherwise the last battle itself will be the entire book almost :P

[ChaosBorn]

I think an epic way to start the book (in the prolouge) would be a segment of Loial's speech to the great stump, it would really set the tone for the last battle and it would be cool seeing all the Ogier's pumped for battle.

 

Obviously the BT needs to be sorted out, though I think Taim will run instead of being taken down straight away and then appear at the last battle to face Logain. Unless we have all been mislead and Taim's not a Darkfriend at all.

 

I do hope FoM is quite soon into the book though, as it's going to be awesome, and so their's plenty of room left for Tarmon Gai'don which i hope has some scenes of the massive battle with Mat in charge as well as Rand at Shayol Ghul.

[DemandredFO]

There may be a Seanchan POV from a general or common soldier to the Tower but as they're fighting the AS and soldiers someone sees a huge army of Shadowspawn coming. I see that as akin to the battle of five armies in the Hobbit, possibly some AM will come to the party too. It will main be an unholy alliance vs shadowspawn. That will just start, and we'll flash to the BT. Red taking a warder, and soon after everything goes boom. Flash to Aviendha, and end up with Fain. Chapter one will be split between Mat, WT and BT. Ebou Dar will probably be attacked because Fortouna and the army is gone.

[RandA lThor]

After all of this, I would love to see the book start with the BT and then Loial with the Great Stump and then go towards the whole FoM to start the first chapter.

[muddasssir]

Yeap I am also partial to great stump and battle of Andor followed by resolution of BT interspersed with FoM

[yoniy0]

I think it is decidedly unlikely that we'd see the Stump. For one thing, it spoils the surprise for when Ogier save the day. For another, I doubt Brandon can do it justice; their rhetorics are supposed to be superb, both in substance and beauty. I wouldn't envy RJ taking on that scene, let alone anyone else. Sometimes, it's better to leave things for imagination.

[DaoineSidhe]

I think there is a good chance that we see Loial Stump speech, however, we don't see the decision made because of it. This allows some surprise to occur when the Ogier do show up, and we get a glimpse of the inner Ogier workings. This could just me wanting to see some Stump action, of course, but I do think it would be a great opener to have Loial giving his speech to the stump. It would set the tone nicely, I think, and then when all of the Ogier react in suprise, outrage, etc. we cut away without finding what decision is made.

[RandA lThor]

I think it is decidedly unlikely that we'd see the Stump. For one thing, it spoils the surprise for when Ogier save the day. For another, I doubt Brandon can do it justice; their rhetorics are supposed to be superb, both in substance and beauty. I wouldn't envy RJ taking on that scene, let alone anyone else. Sometimes, it's better to leave things for imagination.

I actually kind of agree with this and am kind of changing my mind. I think that he will show Loial going up there, but leave the rest for our imagination, so like a cliffhanger moment. Then he will either make us think that the Ogier went and then have them come back, or just have them come back straight away.

[yoniy0]

Yeah, but didn't we kind of already got that part? From the introduction to ToM?

[DaoineSidhe]

We did, but I was left wanting more. I am coming around to the probability that there will probably be no Loial Stump speech, but I do wish it were there rofl.

[realspkr]

I have a hard time believing the stump speech would be left out entirely. Perhaps we would only get the introduction and then a fade out to be left wondering for half the book what's going to happen. Keep in mind, if one assumes the Seanchan will fight for the light in the last battle, the regardless of how the Stump goes, there will be Gardeners fighting for sure.

 

Also, I have a very hard time believing New Rand would break the Seals before Caemlyn is dealt with to completion. One of 2 forces will be at the backs of the new kingdoms' armies, Seanchan or Shadow. One is going to be viewed as bad, the other, much much worse. This will either split the grand army into the "Two Rivers Compact", and others; or the whole mass will go deal with it. Given what we have to assume at least some of the Seanchan's mythology is in some way true (which puts Rand with them at least once more, kneeling...) There will have to be one more southern flank "incident" before a movement northward, and rand will likely be ;part of it.

 

As far as the BT goes, If Asha'man are really split light and dark the way it appears, (much more power in the dark camp) then something needs to balance that out or there will be some pretty nasty balance problems on the battlefield. I'm betting most of the dark's serious channelers will be Asha'man. I can't imagine The Dark One wanting a fight where some of their more talented would be killed. I think the BT will actually clean up rather nicely.

 

will, just my $0.02

[randsc]

I expect the prologue to be a minor character, as others have mentioned. I'm thinking maybe someone in Caemlyn.

 

As for the seals, I expect one of two things. Either they have already crumbled, and the whole "should he or shouldn't he" thing is moot (still how I am betting) OR they will be broken by Perrin.

 

The scenario would be, roughly, Egwene and Rand clash, things are looking bad. Maybe the Aes Sedai have even seized Rand. Perrin resolves the matter (and saves Rand for a second time) by smashing the remaining seals with his pretty new hammer. Fulfilling the "you could break this one with a hammer" foreshadowing.

[ChaosBorn]

 

As for the seals, I expect one of two things. Either they have already crumbled, and the whole "should he or shouldn't he" thing is moot (still how I am betting) OR they will be broken by Perrin.

 

The scenario would be, roughly, Egwene and Rand clash, things are looking bad. Maybe the Aes Sedai have even seized Rand. Perrin resolves the matter (and saves Rand for a second time) by smashing the remaining seals with his pretty new hammer. Fulfilling the "you could break this one with a hammer" foreshadowing.

 

I can literally imagine this, Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve are all shouting at Rand (Aes Sedai composure out the window) and Rand is staring quietly at them and about to state his arguement when Perrin just walks up to the seals and smashs them with his new hammer. Everyone just stares at him with thier mouths hanging open (Including Rand) and he calm explains, in classic Perrin way, why he did it (something to do with blacksmithing). Then to round off the scene Rand just starts laughing, and Moriane appears and delivers "The Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills".

[Vardar]

I have a hard time believing the stump speech would be left out entirely. Perhaps we would only get the introduction and then a fade out to be left wondering for half the book what's going to happen. Keep in mind, if one assumes the Seanchan will fight for the light in the last battle, the regardless of how the Stump goes, there will be Gardeners fighting for sure. Also, I have a very hard time believing New Rand would break the Seals before Caemlyn is dealt with to completion. One of 2 forces will be at the backs of the new kingdoms' armies, Seanchan or Shadow. One is going to be viewed as bad, the other, much much worse. This will either split the grand army into the "Two Rivers Compact", and others; or the whole mass will go deal with it. Given what we have to assume at least some of the Seanchan's mythology is in some way true (which puts Rand with them at least once more, kneeling...) There will have to be one more southern flank "incident" before a movement northward, and rand will likely be ;part of it. As far as the BT goes, If Asha'man are really split light and dark the way it appears, (much more power in the dark camp) then something needs to balance that out or there will be some pretty nasty balance problems on the battlefield. I'm betting most of the dark's serious channelers will be Asha'man. I can't imagine The Dark One wanting a fight where some of their more talented would be killed. I think the BT will actually clean up rather nicely. will, just my $0.02

 

Rand only has to bow before Mat technically to fufill the Prophesy. And heck, kneeling could mean he gives in to Mat's demands for Tuon to go free, or some such mess.

 

As to the stump speech, I think we'll see the begining of the speech, and they'll leave them off to catch up to the timeline. Mat would be next, although it'll be fairly quick for him to catch up since the Asha'man would be coming the next day at noon to check for him. Calemyn burning is going to occur right as the main field action goes down, with them joining forces to stop it via gateways, (gateways are going to be a major plot in the last book imo, since the Shadow can't move near as fast as the forces of light because Shadowspawn can't move thru gateways. Also, what timeline is Lan on? I got the feeling he was a little ahead of the game for some reason.

 

So Field actions goes down, they get word about two large scale battles going down in two key places, forces join together to stop the shadow. I mean, can the Shadow field another large army at the Field right now without gateways, even with portal stones? Actually, I'm not sure how large the Calemyn army could be, since they're just using the Ways, it's probably small enough for the Band to handle.

 

That being said, the book will start off from the perspective of Olver. I'm calling it now.

[RandA lThor]

Do you think that Olver will directly help in the fighting or if he will just be like a messenger boy to Elayne and the forces at FoM?