IWW 2012 - It's a (Wo)man's Job

[MashiraSedai]

This will be a somewhat structured discussion that progresses over the next couple weeks, or however long yall remain interested! Please keep spam to a minimum!

Also, here is an outline so you know what’s coming up:

 

• Traditional Role of Women/Women in the Workforce

• Traditional Careers/Jobs: Are they overlooked, underpaid, considered subordinate? Why?

• Non-Traditional Careers/Jobs: Would you raise a brow to a woman mechanic? Construction worker? President? Why? What struggles do women in these career fields face?

The Traditional Role of Women/Women in the Workforce

 

The ‘traditional’ role of women has been that of a nurturer. In the early Victorian Era, the archetypal woman was a nurturer, wife, mother, and in a way a ‘servant of all’.

Beginning with the Industrial Revolution, women began making their way into the workforce, often times as ‘substitutes’ for the men who had gone off to war (WWI & WWII).

During times of war women were encouraged to work, and government propaganda (see above image) had a large role in inspiring women to leave their homemaker roles. It was

well accepted during war times that that women were only intended to work temporarily, for reasons such as ‘patriotism’, which was truly a sham to mean: women were needed because

companies were signing large, lucrative contracts with the government just as all the men were leaving for the service.

 

Here, I would like to emphasize the fact that women have always worked. These events are what prompted women to work in non-traditional roles for the time, and in larger

numbers to include the upper-class. As women began to enter the workforce, they discovered the non-material benefits of working: higher education (prior to it being a viable

option for women), socialization, independence, and economic freedom. What started as a ploy to buttress the economy ended in inspiring women to branch out of their traditional

homemaking role.

 

So, to start us off: To some, working makes a woman less ‘womanly’, to others, not working makes a woman a backwards bint. What do we have to say to this?

How do you feel about the role of women in the workforce? What do you make of the traditional role of women? Women have the right to work, but what about the

right to stay home? What about women that enjoy traditional roles?

[Ryrin]

I have been both. I very much wanted to stay home when my sons were born (for the first years.) With my oldest, I wasn't able to stay home as long as I would have liked. I loved the traditional role then. After they were in school, I was very bored. I have always enjoyed being in the adult world of work (but today, I am really tired as I get ready.) I love the stimulation of work, the independence of it, the social contacts and the $$$.

 

All mothers work, but working both outside of the home and inside can be exhausting. I now employ a housekeeper once a week as I was tired of spending my weekends cleaning and I have some health problems. She comes on Fridays and I am very grateful for that.

[Sakaea]

I'm a registerd x-ray tech, but haven't been able to find a job yet. So right now I work for 2 beer distribution companies. On the weekend I go to 2 different stores and stock up the beer. It's not really hard, but there is a lot of heavy lifting involved. I get some strange looks from guys some times, cus I am only 5'2", and I'm moving a lot of beer around. I guess it's not a job they expect to see a female doing. But it gives me a good workout twice a week. It's a decent job, for now.

[Rekinu Alasayaar]

I feel strongly that women are needed in the home.

 

>.>

 

wait, I am not a bigoted whatever, i just remember the help my mom was to me as I was growing up. You can work, and be a great mom\dad... I am just saying that women and men should not to let their work get in the way of caring for their significant people in their lives (be it spouse/Significant Other, kids, animals, friends and extended family.). The one bad thing about work for some people is that they let work get into the way of doing other things, and leave their family wanting that connection.

 

I know that my wife wants to be a teacher once our kids get into school themselves, and I am completely supportive. How things will be I do not know, but it should all work out... lol!

[Arez Al'Loke]

Second Rekinu! I haven't had time to read anything else, Just saw his first comment I almost fell of my chair >_< But I kept reading what he wrote and I strongly agree!

Women, men, who cares, just as they take care of/spend time with their loved ones aswell! Now I'll read the rest later ^^ Just wanted the page "bookmarked" so it'll be easier to find later =)!

[MashiraSedai]

Ryrin: I agree. Personally, I've thought about the possibility of having children and am not certain that I want to. However, if I were to ever

have children, I would want to stay home for at least the first few years (three?). I have no idea what it is like to be a mother, so I can

only imagine the exhaustion of working both in and outside of the home. Did you face any flak from co-workers/friends for choosing to stay home?

 

Sakea: Now that is interesting! It sounds like lifting and refilling is pretty hard work physically. Have you had to deal with anything other than

strange looks? Do you have co-workers that you actively work with or are you restocking on your own?

 

Reki: Also agreed. It's odd. A very strong part of me is very much for women's advancement, however an equally passionate part is for a close knit

home life. Here is a question for all: Why is it that it seems we have to choose between an active home life or an active work life? Is it possible to

have both?

 

Arez: Indeed it is important that regardless of if we work, stay home, or do both, we are actively involved in our home life. Up to this point we have

discussed the importance of the need for women in the home. What about the men? How do you all feel about a stay at home dad?

Is there a reason it seems that we primarily think of mothers staying home, as opposed to fathers?

 

IMHO, it is important that work and home be separated. It is also highly important that children be parented. It is one of the things that irks me to

no end. I think that children these days (oh dear Light, I sound old) have a distinct lack of good parenting. I also believe that it is not the sole

or primary responsibility of the wife/mother/woman to do the parenting in situations where there are two parents. I think this will become interesting

when we start to talk about glass ceilings and the earning power of men vs. women, which I believe is possibly a reason women are generally the ones to

stay home (in some circumstances).

 

And again, thank you everyone for chiming in! Reki, special thanks for not being afraid to take your stand, we love to hear different viewpoints!

[Wren of the Brown]

One of the things I've learned working in typically male-dominated or traditionally masculine occupations (i.e., I was a machinist for a few years) is that men are more likely to damage equipment while repairing it themselves because their tendency to utilize brute force exceeds equipment tolerances. Women, on the other hand, while they may feel intimidated by the so-called design complexity, are more willing to patiently learn the ins-and-outs of technique and procedure and are also less likely to get give it that last full turn that strips the threading. There are a few reasons for this so I don't want to overemphasize the 'fear of repercussions' angle. But men are more likely to fiddle and modify so it's a rare woman who becomes a mechanic.

 

I'm more concerned about any mechanics confidence, experience and intuition than I am their gender. But sometimes I don't understand my mom's tendency to use the most inappropriate tool and the results are sometimes hilarious and sometimes tragic for the thing in question. And I also don't understand why more women don't fiddle with stuf and tear it apart and get dirty.

 

Another thing that irks me. A few years ago I took a self-defence class and I found that I had to encourage my women classmates to hit hard and dedicate themselvs to learning the technique. I got the impression that a few women in there felt that throwing a punch is unladylike. This is immensely frustrating to me. Your right to protect your life, body and person is a universal right that supercedes gender and sex. Why is the most preyed upon demographic of our species the most subject to such discouragement? The answer is self-evident. Frustrating and shameful.

[Arez Al'Loke]

*Another thing that irks me. A few years ago I took a self-defence class and I found that I had to encourage my women classmates to hit hard and dedicate themselvs to learning the technique. I got the impression that a few women in there felt that throwing a punch is unladylike. *

 

Baha xD!! That's so god damn true xD! Sure, it may be "unladylike", but they're not learning it so they can show of their skills -.- They're learning it for that ONE occasion when you need it to survive..

Being "unladylike" will not save you then, and there is RARELY anyone watching at a moment like that.. Therefor it's completly illogical that they're afraid of being seen doing the things they learned, but ALAS! logic is most often ignored in situations like that!

 

Got to go, I'll be back later to further develop my thoughts on this matter ^^

[Reyoru]

Here is a question for all: Why is it that it seems we have to choose between an active home life or an active work life? Is it possible to have both?

 

I have the very great blessing of having the best mother in the world.

 

Despite being an extremely intelligent and skilled professional in her field, and despite her being very successful, she was and still is the backbone of our family. I never fully realised how incredible she is while growing up, but today I frankly marvel at her love, dedication and her ability to seemingly be in three places at once. She works unbelievably hard, balancing her busy workload while fully managing the household and bringing up my siblings, and she does it all with a smile on her face.

 

It is possible to balance both an active home and work life, but it really takes someone special.

[Sakaea]

Sakaea: Now that is interesting! It sounds like lifting and refilling is pretty hard work physically. Have you had to deal with anything other than strange looks? Do you have co-workers that you actively work with or are you restocking on your own?

 

No, I just get some odd looks, from men usually, occasionally from women who look like they've never lifted anything heavier than a hair dryer in their lives. I work by myself, and I get the most odd looks on holiday weekends when I'm stocking 30 packs of beer and I've got like 20 of them on a cart that I've loaded and am now un-loading.

[Tynaal Consen]

So, my mother is a dairyfarmer. A darn good one. She's one of the best Brown Swiss breeders in South Africa and has won multiple SA champs with her cows (yeah it sounds kinda weird, but it is a great achievement). My parents are divorced, so my mom raised us (I think she did a pretty excellent job) and ran a successful dairy farm. Anyone that has been involved on a farm in any way knows how tasking and difficult the work is. She does it without complaint and at the end is still thankful for God having laid such a blessing on her, that she is privileged enough to sit outside and smell the roses (quite literally, though we don't grow roses, they're too difficult to deal with )

 

I don't remember this personally, but I have heard it been said very often. Two old men that lived in teh neighbourhood (one has moved away and the other is very ill) made bets on how long my mom would last and were already rubbing their hands in anticipation to the land they would soon be able to snap up for a bargain. Well didn't she just prove them wrong? I find it ridiculous that people believe women can't do what men can. There are many women out there that are perfect examples of it.

 

In my opinion, a woman is neither less of a woman or a backwards stint. It's a matter of choice. It is your choice to decide whether you enjoy staying at home or would rather find a career and pursue that. You cannot judge another woman without knowing her circumstance or reasons for her choices.

 

Personally, that is exactly what I believe actually Don't judge what you don't understand. I am totally for women creating independence from their men. I mean, if they are not qualified or have no work experience and their husband leaves them for some young floozy, how will they support themselves? And if you have a passion, it shouldn't be shelved simply because your husband doesn't want you doing your own thing.

 

Once I nearly slapped friends of mine, because they were being such shabby satellites saying: "When I have a wife, she's going to run the household and nothing else, because that's her place and I will be the breadwinner." Suffices to say that we're no longer friends.

[Alira]

My parents are both teachers. My mom took eight years off work to raise us (I have two brothers, two and four years younger than me). She worked summer school though, and dad took care of us during the summers while mom worked.

 

Personally, I believe that either choice can be the right one. When I asked my mom recently why she chose to stay home, she told me that, among other things, the cost of child care for three kids would have completely negated her paycheque. Instead she and dad traded staying home, and took care of another family's kids as well.

 

I don't plan on having children, or even of getting married (I'm 22 and graduating from university in April). I'm not saying it will never happen, only that I really can't see myself wanting to. I'm happy being single and independent.

[Mystica]

I'm really liking this discussion already. You guys are bringing up some really interesting viewpoints that are very interesting to read. I'll chime in myself a bit later on, as I'm somewhat busy with work at the moment, but definately keeping an eye on this. Fascinating stuff!

[Niamh Sedai]

In regards to women, the workplace and parenting, I think it is important to observe the basic fact that 99% of parents are trying to do the best by their families whether in the home or by bringing in money. That being said, I doubt very little could replace the physical presence of any parent.

 

The idea that a woman is any incapable of doing a man's job is just ludicrous (with some minor exceptions). That being said, whilst society is beginning to recognise this, it is a slow process, hindered, in my opinion, by the fact that there is no real feminist movement at present, or if there is it is muted. I'm not saying we should burn our bras, but awareness would be raised much more quickly if groups representing women in the workplace and in education (inextricably linked) were more vocal. Women need to be encouraged in maths, science, engineering, business; areas traditionally dominated by men. Until there is a significant number of women in these fields, attitudes won't change and women will continue to be seen an oddities.

 

I do have an interesting question; what do people think about women not being allowed to fight on the front line when they join the Military? Do you think it's fair? Or do you think women deserve to be protected more than men? I figured considering the subject, it was an important question. :)

[Arez Al'Loke]

Respones to Niamh Sedai

 

I do agree with most of what you're saying ^^ almost everything =) Except the part about "feminist movement at present".

They're everwhere, helping women at work get equal pay grades as men, love that. Although what I don't love about the more "extreme" feminists are that they just go to overdrive when it comes to certain aspects. For example.. In Sweden they're talking about "man breasts", THEY want MEN to wear FRICKEN ARTIFICALL breasts to feed the babies when they're at home. WHY!? Why can't they just use bottles? WHY the bloody flaming goats milk do they have to be equal in EVERY WAY.

 

There are Men.. And there are Women, we are Different in SOME asspects and similiar in Others. Pay grades and such should not be based on gender, but on work efficiency.

But we can't be bloody equal at bloody well everything, now can we? Men are born with more muscles, born that way. Women mature several years faster than men, born that way aswell. THE LINE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE. That's all I have to say, and If there is someone who thinks he/she missunderstands, feel free to respond or ask.

 

Don't jump to conclusions and get all aggresive. And read EVERY word I say, so you won't miss "Extreme" Feminists, for example. That means I'm not refering to all, only to a small percentage.

[Tynaal Consen]

In Sweden they're talking about "man breasts", THEY want MEN to wear FRICKEN ARTIFICALL breasts to feed the babies when they're at home. WHY!? Why can't they just use bottles? WHY the bloody flaming goats milk do they have to be equal in EVERY WAY.

 

Ahahahaha. I once saw a guy use one (well, it sounds like your description) Most ridiculous thing ever.

[MashiraSedai]

Hai & Arez: Bahahaha! You know, one would think that not punching your hardest would defeat the purpose of a self defense class. As for mechanics,

I agree Hai. In High School we were required to take an 'elective' course. By my Junior year I had worn out all of the dance courses and I was sick of

being on the cheer squad as the team as a whole kind of sucked. I took Auto Tech instead and was reportedly the only female to take the course in six

years. So glad I did though, because now I can change my oil, tire, brake pads, fiddle with minor engine probs that don't require the dealership ect. and

am not dependent on a guy (as Ty said) to do those things.

 

Rey: *heartmelts* That's probably one of the sweetest things ever. Mind my asking what field your mother is in? Also, it's good to hear that a busy

work life and an obviously successful home life (judging by your praise) is possible.

 

Sakea: Okay, I'm skipping ahead a topic here, but did you face any challenges in getting hired for the job? Anyone say you couldn't/shouldn't be doing

it? Just uber curious!

 

Ty: Your mother sounds amazing! I very much agree with what you said in that we should not judge if we do not understand. I think to some extent though,

regardless of if we voice it or not, we form 'inner judgements' about things/people/circumstances sometimes without even realizing it. I know I do.

Also, glad to hear you set those friends straight, however, I suppose it's their right to think that way. I personally don't agree with it, but if they find

a woman that feels the same and is happy with it, more power to 'em.

 

Niamh: I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I do think we have a feminist movement, however, I do agree that it is muted. Also, I'm not one for

bra burning either, and 'muted' does not infer in anyway that they should be burning bras. Just more proactive in getting laws passed. That leads me to your

question: Just last week in the US the Pentagon has released plans to give women more opportunities in the military, and bring them into service in battalions.

This would put them closer to the front line. The problem here is that it looks like an advancement, but really isn't. See article:

 

USA Today Article

 

as for my opinion, I do believe women should be allowed into combat/front line positions. The military (generally speaking) is a choice. If you choose to

be in the military, then you should be able to choose any part of it. The only place I don't agree with women in the military is the draft. I guess

this is just my traditional side coming out, and I know it's hypocritical, but what can I say?

 

Arez: I think you bring up two good points. As I was saying to Niamh, I think there needs to be more of a push for laws regarding women. Particularly in the

of glass ceilings (equal pay for equal work). I heard something a while back about the UK mandating salary audits to ensure this, not sure what happened

with it, but will check on it and let yall know. Secondly it does have to stop somewhere. I do believe that there are genetic differences in men and women

that must be observed, however, I do not believe that these differences (if they can be helped) have to alter the opportunities that men and women have.

 

About the man breasts: I heard about a man in Sweden attempting to stimulate lactation so that he could breastfeed his baby. I haven't heard of these

artificial breasts, though. The artificial breast does just sound silly, though for a baby with a cleft lip/palate or something I could see it making sense.

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

I'd like to state, for the record, that I am fully in favour of equal rights for both genders. I will play a little bit of devils advocate here, though. In response to a question about women in the military, my answer would be that people should get assigned based on their individual ability. Meaning I dont think it's right to throw women and men forward equally (in anything, in fact) just for the sake of equality. But if a woman is just as capable of some serious ass kicking as her male colleagues, then why not. This isnt always going to be the case, though (just as some men are not cut out for conflict situations). Call me a bigot if you will, but I think while anyone should be given a chance at anything, and women have just as much CAPACITY as men at any given task, there are situations where a higher PROPORTION of men would be more successful (and other situations where the opposite is true, of course). To be brutally honest, if a front lines situation comes down to hand to hand fighting, men would have a definate advantage. Sorry if that offends some of the die hard feminists out there. But as I said, everyone should be judged as individuals. It's not like things get that up close and personal in war as the trench fighting of WW1 any more, of course.

 

There are other things about the womens rights movement which I admit bug me though. Firstly, is that I find women often want to be treated equally until they dont want to be treated equally. I think its fair to say that often womens rights is about gaining something they feel is "more" not giving up the good bits. For example, there is plenty of talk about "there are no gentlemen left these days" (my standard reply is there arent enough ladies, either, but thats a discussion for another day). Women want to be given a seat if there isnt enough available, want to have the door held open, help to carry something heavy, a jacket if it is cold/raining etc etc. Now- I agree with all this. I'm the kind of guy who does all that.

 

However. Compare that desire for special treatment with the bullish "everything should be equal" attitude that comes out when it comes to employment opportunities, wages, and everything else wrapped in. Look at the outcry in the UK this year when womens car insurance was raised to be the same as mens, because it was decided it wasnt fair to charge based on gender- even tho we all know there are more reckless boy racers out there than girls. (I'll make no comment on driving skill, as that will probably inflame everyone to not giving me a fair hearing as I try to present a fair alternative argument here...) Suddenly, they dont want everything equal. They want the perks of being feminine.

 

Lets take the two examples above- employment and wages. As regards employment- do women really want equal employment opportunities across the board? Do you? Did you answer yes? Well, lets consider that. I'm an electrician, so I work in the construction trade. There are precious few female electrical workers around, even less plumbers, not a single builder that I know of and I'll die of shock the second I see a woman working as a simple labourer on a construction site. Now, this does not surprise me. Because I'm the kind of guy who will give a girl a seat on a crowded train. And yet, women everywhere are crying out that there is no job, physical or mental, that they arent as capable as men at accomplishing if they choose to be. My question is, if womens rights really matters to women, wouldnt the ideal be to have an equal number of men and women working in all sectors? Now I appreciate that there are women working in other sectors in what are considered to also be "menial" jobs- but in my experience, the ones who push womens rights are the ones who want the fancy office jobs or highly skilled trades like surgeons etc. They dont want equal rights across the board- they want a slice of what they consider to be something "better." Those are the only women I meet who are true feminists and who really push womens rights. My challange to them is to go out and get themselves into other sectors which are even more heavily male dominated, and become trendsetters that way. If its not about the wage, prestige or type of job, then why target ones with a medium imbalance towards men and not ones with such a heavy imbalance? Again, thats not equality.

 

Now lets talk about wages. This isnt something I'm too aware of, as the law is pretty good over here in britain to be honest. There may be countries where it isnt as stringent, and again, i'll show where my loyalties lie by stating that that is ridiculous. If a man and a woman are doing the same job, putting in the same number of hours, and with the same level of competancy, then they should get the same wage. I cant put it more fairly or succinctly than that in my view.

 

But lets consider that for a moment. Lets say a man and a woman have a job as a sales rep. Lets say that the man works 10 hours per week less, and isnt as good at his job- measured in the fact that he brings in 25% less income to the company than the woman. Would you expect him to be paid less than her? I would, realistically. Would you also agree then, that if the woman was the one doing that, she should be paid less? I'm sure you would- youre reasonable, fair people.

 

Lets extrapolate from that, then, into one of my favourite subjects: sports prize money. I read a lot about women wanting equal prize money for each gender. In principal, sounds good. My question is: do they do the same job? The clearest example of this, to me, is tennis. I cant remember if the prize money at wimbledon is the same for both genders now, I do remember a big who has about it not being the same. AND YET. Refer back to our example above. Women in tennis play much less time per game, all the way throughout the tournament. Men play 5 sets not three, and the average men’s tennis game at Wimbledon has taken on 30 minutes longer to play than the average women’s game. Thus, on average the mens champion will have played 3½ hours more tennis than the womens. This is by choice, not by genetics, where other factors such as speed of serve etc could be argued to also come into play in terms of how entertaingin the game is- and after all, sport is all about entertainment. Yet women press for equal prize money, and yet not equal sets. AND I do believe the facts bear out that the mens final draws more media coverage, meaning more revenue etc (substitute this for "sales profits" in our above example).

 

I guess the whole point im trying to make here is this: Women: do you really want equal rights, or dont you?

 

 

(Again I'd point out, im against all forms of prejudice and highly respect and value women as a whole. Iv met good ones and bad ones- just like men).

[Tynaal Consen]

Ty: Your mother sounds amazing! I very much agree with what you said in that we should not judge if we do not understand. I think to some extent though,

regardless of if we voice it or not, we form 'inner judgements' about things/people/circumstances sometimes without even realizing it. I know I do.

Also, glad to hear you set those friends straight, however, I suppose it's their right to think that way. I personally don't agree with it, but if they find

a woman that feels the same and is happy with it, more power to 'em.

 

I think it was more the way it was said and how it had this implied meaning of that is how it will be and no other way. Like it was his decision to make and not that of his wife.

[Arez Al'Loke]

Respons to Fnorrll

 

"There are other things about the womens rights movement which I admit bug me though. Firstly, is that I find women often want to be treated equally until they dont want to be treated equally. I think its fair to say that often womens rights is about gaining something they feel is "more" not giving up the good bits"

 

That's exackly how I feel about that aswell =P I just couldn't put it in such extraordinary words as you've just done ^^ I will not develop my opinion on this any more than that,I agree with every single word of the context about the quoted sentence!

 

Scratch that, I agree with 95% of everything you wrote =P And I would also like to quote

 

"(Again I'd point out, im against all forms of prejudice and highly respect and value women as a whole. Iv met good ones and bad ones- just like men). "

 

I just think he brought up some really valid points that I've been grumbling about for quite some time xD

[Alira]

Lets take the two examples above- employment and wages. As regards employment- do women really want equal employment opportunities across the board? Do you? Did you answer yes? Well, lets consider that. I'm an electrician, so I work in the construction trade. There are precious few female electrical workers around, even less plumbers, not a single builder that I know of and I'll die of shock the second I see a woman working as a simple labourer on a construction site. Now, this does not surprise me. Because I'm the kind of guy who will give a girl a seat on a crowded train. And yet, women everywhere are crying out that there is no job, physical or mental, that they arent as capable as men at accomplishing if they choose to be. My question is, if womens rights really matters to women, wouldnt the ideal be to have an equal number of men and women working in all sectors? Now I appreciate that there are women working in other sectors in what are considered to also be "menial" jobs- but in my experience, the ones who push womens rights are the ones who want the fancy office jobs or highly skilled trades like surgeons etc. They dont want equal rights across the board- they want a slice of what they consider to be something "better." Those are the only women I meet who are true feminists and who really push womens rights. My challange to them is to go out and get themselves into other sectors which are even more heavily male dominated, and become trendsetters that way. If its not about the wage, prestige or type of job, then why target ones with a medium imbalance towards men and not ones with such a heavy imbalance? Again, thats not equality.

 

(Note: I feel like this might come off as confrontational. I'm really not trying to be. I'm just trying to show my point of view as a woman in a VERY male dominated industry.)

I'm not an electrician, but I am an electrical engineer in training. I'm graduating this spring, and I have two years work experience through co-op. There are 4 girls in my class of almost 100 people, and I'm regularly the only woman on a team. I'm moving out west in May to work in a chemical plant as a controls engineer. I'm not always welcome, or respected, because of my gender. I've had men try to take my work away from me, or men tell me that I'm just out to snag a rich husband. I'm not looking for special treatment, I don't need a "gentleman," I just need people to respect me and let me do my job. Yes, I'll ask someone to help me carry heavy things. I know I'm not as strong as some of my co-workers, and I don't like risking dropping thousands of dollars of equipment just because I'm trying to prove something!

[Arez Al'Loke]

Reply to Alira

 

"I've had men try to take my work away from me, or men tell me that I'm just out to snag a rich husband."

 

I'm probably wrong, but I can't help asking. Are you sure they meant that as condescending ^^? To me that just looks like regular

"guy rough" humor xD That's the kind of jokes my work friends tell eachother , man to man most often, on a regular basis. Although I don't know how your

co-workers are, that's how mine are.

 

Things are probably very different in different regions of the world, Sweden doesn't have to much problems with "Female treatment" at work, with that I mean that

they're quite the opposite of what your co-workers are. But sometimes a "rough" joke comes out here or there. I've often experianced that Male to Female jokes

are VERY often missunderstood and taken as an "attack" on the female...

 

As I've said, I don't know how things are for you either than what you describe, but I obviously will assume it's true. And how you describe that your co-workers

treat you isn't okey at all in my oppinion. But, if I may be as bold to ask, are you really being disrespected at work? Or is it perhaps to nasty jokes that

you've misinterpreted?

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

 

(Note: I feel like this might come off as confrontational. I'm really not trying to be. I'm just trying to show my point of view as a woman in a VERY male dominated industry.)

 

No worries at all, I didnt read it that way :)

 

I'm not an electrician, but I am an electrical engineer in training. I'm graduating this spring, and I have two years work experience through co-op. There are 4 girls in my class of almost 100 people, and I'm regularly the only woman on a team. I'm moving out west in May to work in a chemical plant as a controls engineer.

 

I think this is absolutely bloody fantastic. Well done! I'm really happy to hear that! Couldn't be more pleased!

 

I'm not always welcome, or respected, because of my gender. I've had men try to take my work away from me, or men tell me that I'm just out to snag a rich husband. I'm not looking for special treatment, I don't need a "gentleman," I just need people to respect me and let me do my job. Yes, I'll ask someone to help me carry heavy things. I know I'm not as strong as some of my co-workers, and I don't like risking dropping thousands of dollars of equipment just because I'm trying to prove something!

 

That pees me off and is completely wrong of them. Hope you can tough it ou and make a success of your career and enjoy it. Prove them wrong.

 

Reply to Alira

 

"I've had men try to take my work away from me, or men tell me that I'm just out to snag a rich husband."

 

I'm probably wrong, but I can't help asking. Are you sure they meant that as condescending ^^? To me that just looks like regular

"guy rough" humor xD That's the kind of jokes my work friends tell eachother , man to man most often, on a regular basis. Although I don't know how your

co-workers are, that's how mine are.

 

Things are probably very different in different regions of the world, Sweden doesn't have to much problems with "Female treatment" at work, with that I mean that they're quite the opposite of what your co-workers are. But sometimes a "rough" joke comes out here or there. I've often experianced that Male to Female jokes are VERY often missunderstood and taken as an "attack" on the female...

 

As I've said, I don't know how things are for you either than what you describe, but I obviously will assume it's true. And how you describe that your co-workers treat you isn't okey at all in my oppinion. But, if I may be as bold to ask, are you really being disrespected at work? Or is it perhaps to nasty jokes that you've misinterpreted?

 

My reply to this, unusually, is different for each of you. Alira, I think Arez raises a good point. You know best how youre being treated, and I can fully believe it is unfairly. That said, maybe thinking on what Arezhas said might shed new light on at least some of the situations you face. As for trying to take your work away, thats wrong.

 

Arez, I agree men can be like that- but they shouldnt be. Some girls can handle those jokes, some cant(same true for guys, of course). But if a- woman, i should say, apologies- if a woman came to work in MY work environment, I'd err on the side of caution until i got to know her and thought "wow, this girl can rough it up like a good un." Like i said, i'm the stand-up-on-the-train type, so I believe in a certain respectful attitude towards "the fairer sex"- at least until they prove they dont want or need it.

[Sakaea]

Sakaea: Okay, I'm skipping ahead a topic here, but did you face any challenges in getting hired for the job? Anyone say you couldn't/shouldn't be doing it? Just uber curious!

 

When I first applied, the guy who interviewed me said that there's a lot of heavy lifting involved, was I sure I could do it. I just said yes, and he hired me. I'm one of only 2 girls who do this job, it's very male-dominated. But the funny thing is (no offense guys) us 2 girls work harder and faster, and get our stuff done before the guys. Not sure if that's a function of we're female so we bust it out to prove we can or what. I listen to music on my iPod while I work, so it's actually fairly enjoyable

[Arez Al'Loke]

Sakaea my friend.. You see, "we" men are often usually very lazy ^^ So we do what we have to before the deadline comes xD