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Aviendha's 'Task' With Rand in book 5


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Ok, I've read through this series I don't know how many times, especially books 1-6. I just finished Book 5 and for the life of me, cannot figure out what Aviendha's real purpose is with Rand, what the Wise Ones wanted her to accomplish.

 

Do they want her to make him fall in love with him/sleep with him?

Do they really want her to teach him the Aiel ways fully, and make him as close to Aiel as possible?

Do they really want her to spy on him?

Or something else?

 

I always figured they wanted her to have him fall in love with her, if they saw it in a dream or something.

 

I've just never really been sure, and the Wise Ones talking to her after the Docks, just before they leave for Caemlyn, just left me confused.

 

Anyone who wants to shed some light on this, please do.

Edited by YoungKing
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In my opinion, they just want Rand to regard the Aiel as an end in themselves, not just a means to an end, to quote Kant, and via Avienda they want to confront him with a real person representing the Aiel, one who he can not treat as a piece on a stones borad.

They want her to get under his skin.

 

Maybe they chose her because of a dream, or because she is about his age and pretty, I don't know.

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At first they wanted her to spy. That quickly didn't go well. Then her main task was to make Rand "know his blood". Meaning they wanted him to regard the Aiel as his people and to care about them as a people. They wanted his very best effort at making the remnant that would survive as large as possible because he cared about the Aiel.

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I'm just re-reading tFoH and I'm pretty sure the original plan was to simply have Avi spy on Rand for them. They specifically said something along the lines that most men would trust a pretty face.

 

After they realized that wouldn't work, they just wanted Avi to be around Rand to gather information about what he does, and to have him taught about Aiel customs.

 

And then, I suspect that one of the Dreamwalkers saw Rand dreaming of Avi, in a way that made it clear that he was, subconsciously at least, becoming attracted to her. That is when the Wise Ones started talking about having her share his bed.

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The inference is fairly clear that they dreamt Aviendha and Rand would fall in love, and that assigning Aviendha was done to put them together and allow it to happen. There are numerous references and instances that point to this--from their whole attitude, their smugness when Rand confronts them about Aviendha spying on him, Bair and Melaine both make slips to the point of 'oh, we thought simply putting you together would be enough, but nooo...'

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They wanted to bind Rand to the Aiel by making him fall in love with Aviendha. Oh, the spying and teaching him Aiel culture was part of it, but it's hinted at very strongly that they want her to woo him.

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Again, I think based on the comments they made to, and about, both Aviendha and Rand, was not that they set out on a plan to make them fall in love, but rather they simply exposed them to each other because they knew from their dreams that they likely would fall in love. There's just a couple of little shadings along the way that suggest this--I had a list of them way back in the day, but I lost it. Might try and dig them up again--RJ's subtlety at the absolute best.

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I think its obvious now (post ToM) that Aviendha is going to make some big choices as regards to what paths the Aiel take after TG.

Maybe Rand will help with that in some way and the WO's knew that only a Avi who is close to Rand can help save the remnant.

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i see it as that they want to save their people the best they can so they gave him aviendah to teach and obviously report back to them about him and most importantly make him know the aiel as his own by getting him mixed up with aviendah, im sure they were so happy when they found out about the maidens outside their window chanting about what they thought rand/aviendah did (which they actually did) when asmodean sent aviendahs sister? that gainshan away.

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The problem I see Luckers, is that they imply that Aviendha was supposed to know what she was doing.

 

Unless they had a talk with Avi telling her that she was going to fall in love with him, and that that was why they were going to be putting her with him, that's really the only way it makes sense.

 

Now that I think of it though, the must have told her and she was just fighting it?

 

The whole thing doesn't seem to gel for me.

 

I mean, if she was meant to teach/spy that's fine(although that goes against Aiel ways, but Wise Ones are above everything anyway in their minds), but then they saw Rand's dreams, so told Avi she was going to fall in love with him, and then made her sleep beside him, in his room, etc. to force the issue...

 

I guess it's partly Avi's fault for not being adult about it and realizes that she loves the guy and stop hating him, but because of the promise to Elayne... ugh. Not a fan of that whole sequence, the more I think about it.

Edited by YoungKing
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Honestly, I think Aviendha's response is at least partly a relic of her wanting to remain a Maiden of the Spear at almost any cost. It's clear that she knew from the rings that she would love (and probably marry if I'm remembering right, I might not be) Rand, which means she would have to give up the spear. She had never wanted to be anything else.

 

She wasn't exactly mature about her response, but then, I can think of nobody who is when the thing you cherish most about your life is taken away from you.

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Avi knew she would fall in love with him before the Wise One's set her to the task - she saw it in Rhuidean. She could have shared this perhaps. We don't really ever get a glimpse into whether the Wise One's treat the visions in the same way that the Aes Sedai treat theirs.

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Honestly, I think Aviendha's response is at least partly a relic of her wanting to remain a Maiden of the Spear at almost any cost. It's clear that she knew from the rings that she would love (and probably marry if I'm remembering right, I might not be) Rand, which means she would have to give up the spear. She had never wanted to be anything else.

 

She wasn't exactly mature about her response, but then, I can think of nobody who is when the thing you cherish most about your life is taken away from you.

 

That's true, probably contributed to her bad attitude.

 

Avi knew she would fall in love with him before the Wise One's set her to the task - she saw it in Rhuidean. She could have shared this perhaps. We don't really ever get a glimpse into whether the Wise One's treat the visions in the same way that the Aes Sedai treat theirs.

 

Makes her seem like even more of an idiot.

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It's not just spying they're after. Not just "knowing his blood." Neither of those possibilities explain the reference to how "In my day, even Maidens knew how to handle men."

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Honestly, I think Aviendha's response is at least partly a relic of her wanting to remain a Maiden of the Spear at almost any cost. It's clear that she knew from the rings that she would love (and probably marry if I'm remembering right, I might not be) Rand, which means she would have to give up the spear. She had never wanted to be anything else.

 

She wasn't exactly mature about her response, but then, I can think of nobody who is when the thing you cherish most about your life is taken away from you.

 

That's true, probably contributed to her bad attitude.

 

Avi knew she would fall in love with him before the Wise One's set her to the task - she saw it in Rhuidean. She could have shared this perhaps. We don't really ever get a glimpse into whether the Wise One's treat the visions in the same way that the Aes Sedai treat theirs.

 

Makes her seem like even more of an idiot.

 

I don't know what about that makes her seem like an idiot. She knew she would fall in love with him, but was honor bound to Elayne to keep him true to her, all while the wise one's were pushing her into Rand's bed. And top that off with the fact that she didn't even want to BE a wise one, and so was a bit upset about that as well. And she was, what, 18? or maybe 19... Sounds like she was seriously conflicted.

Edited by Yamahako
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I can only point to a few 18-20 year old people as being anything like having their heads screwed on straight, and I minister to youth, so I've known quite a few. It's one of the reasons I haven't quibbled about how Mat, Rand, Egwene and so forth are presented in the books. Do I wish they'd wise up? Yes. Did I think they would short of hard lessons? No. Almost no one does. I can count on one hand the number of people I have known in my entire life (I'm 37, so neither old nor young) who don't, as a rule, have to learn lessons the hard way and I'm not one of them.

 

How they are presented is eminently believable. That doesn't make some of their actions any less annoying, but it is realistic. The quickest way to put someone's back up, both in WoT and in real life, is to tell them what they should do.

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I actually never realized that she had learned that in the ter'angreal. Of course she did. We know that Moiraine did, so it was stupid of me not to have figured that out. But I am curious, if she saw all the possibilities, why did she not know about Min? She expresses surprise when Elayne tells her about Min.

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It's not just spying they're after. Not just "knowing his blood." Neither of those possibilities explain the reference to how "In my day, even Maidens knew how to handle men."

 

 

I would agree, I think it's fairly implicit, even if never said outright, that they want Rand and Avi to fall for each other. It gives them a tie to him, and from their point of view makes the Aiel seem more human and less like a spear.

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I actually never realized that she had learned that in the ter'angreal. Of course she did. We know that Moiraine did, so it was stupid of me not to have figured that out. But I am curious, if she saw all the possibilities, why did she not know about Min? She expresses surprise when Elayne tells her about Min.

 

She states she knew she would love him and that she knew she would have sister-wives. She remembers no more of it than that.

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I guess it makes sense.

 

Wise Ones wanted her to spy/teach/fall in love. She wanted to watch him for Elayne(so annoying) but knew she would fall in love or loved him then, but she had a task from the Wise Ones to sleep/love/bind him to them as well.

 

Using someone like that(the Wise Ones using Avi) just seems like a really mean/manipulative thing to do.

 

At least it makes sense now. Just don't get me started on how easily characters fall in love in this series. :laugh:

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