Pillowfriends

[ElusiveAthena]

This is something that I asked the Blue Ajah, but I thought I'd open it up to everyone. What exactty are pillowfriends? I know in the Tower Novice Quarters there are little holes in the wall near the bed-head for you to talk to a friend through, but is there a more intimate connotation? In "New Spring" there are a few hints that Moiraine and Siuan are closer than friends, and I think it's "Knife of Dreams" or thereabouts where Elaida and a Grey sister who dresses revealingly consider "being pillowfriends again" or something. What do you think?

[Netbattler11]

This is something that i've been wondering about for a while. I think it may cover both cases, but i've never really been sure.

[Suttree]

Let RJ answer this one. Different question but the answer fits just the same..

 

 

Vsove: What exactly is a Nine-Horse Hitch? C'mon, tell us. We can handle it...we're all big boys and girls.

RJ: If you don't know already really you aren't old enough.

[SylvanFox]

Remember Ailil and that Sea Folk woman who were pillow-friends? They were in the bedroom together, and it took a long time for Cads to get them to admit to why they were together. I think that pretty much gave it away.

[LeeM.Erickson]

13th Depository has just the article for you: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know.html

[Guest PiotrekS]

Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country.

(Robert Jordan's Blog, September 30 2005)

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

he had a way with euphamisms

[andrewks]

I am pretty sure it describes two people who are just lonely and need some no strings attached excitement. Friends with benefits, experimentation (in Moiraine's instance since she IS getting married) but not serious.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

not sure it's that narrow or specific. human interaction is wide and varied.

[ElusiveAthena]

Uh huh. That's what I thought it was, but then someone said that the novices and Accepted would have been pretty strictly watched, so I was just wondering.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

noones ever watched strictly enough to stop that

[ElusiveAthena]

I suppose. I guess why I thought that was in DR when Elayne and Egwene are forbidden to talk to eachother and they whisper through the holes in the walls, Faolain pounces on them with a great deal of satisfaction.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

where theres a will... nobody gets watched 24/365

[Didgya]

Really? I have been told (by a girl) of some interesting things a done with pillow but they were usually alone. I'll just say it, its like college experimentation for co-ed's.

[TheAngryDruid]

While I think pillow-friends can develop into a sexual relationship, I don't necessarily think all pillow-friends are necessarily sexual.

 

In terms of Venn diagrams, I'd say pillow friends would be the big circle, with the sexual relationship/pillow-friends inside it.

 

For example. Elaida and her Gray were, but I'm not certain about Moiraine and Siuan. Elyane and Egwene were not. Though, of course, one can argue if Elayne and Egwene are actually "pillow-friends" at all, as RJ meant the term, but they certainly have shared a bed, and intimate personal details with each other. Just no sex.

 

For me, I think the term can be used more broadly. And not to get too Clintonian, but one person's definition of sex can be a bit different than another's.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country.

(Robert Jordan's Blog, September 30 2005)

 

 

can't really argue with this.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i mean you can, but you'd be redefining the term in a way the author said he didn't intend.

 

ive seen that happen plenty, so if it makes you happy.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I agree with Cindy.

 

It is on the other hand weird how Siuan and Moiraine walk away from each other and this relationship, which tended to be very close from what we can gather from New Spring, just ceases to be without any kind of...Anything. Some people has criticized RJ for treating Siuan's and Moiraine's relatinship not seriously enough, in "lesbian until graduation" kind of way. But who knows how this relationships really work? Certainly not me

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

a lot of relationships end at graduation. but he didnt treat it very seriously.

 

they had important stuff to do tho.

[Suttree]

For example. Elaida and her Gray were, but I'm not certain about Moiraine and Siuan.

 

They were, as Piotreks said RJ has been criticized for not treating there relationship seriously enough.

 

Elayne and Egwene would not be considered pillow friends.

[LeeM.Erickson]

Yeah, Siuan and Moiraine were pillowfriends. Moiraine was pretty mortified in New Spring upon first meeting Cadsuane because her and the other sisters there were openly discussing the fact.

 

As for the "lesbians until graduation" thing, it seems weird but it kind of makes sense. Pillowfriend isn't just another term for a same sex relationship, it's a very specific kind of relationship that has a lot to do with the culture of living in the Tower. I think to AS it's just sort of accepted that you grow out of pillow friendship once reaching the shawl, because the stresses of every day life and intense training are removed. Not to say that AS don't have stress or training, but they aren't going through the meat grinder of the rigorous novice/Accepted lifestyle. Also, novices and Accepted are younger with more raging hormones.

 

I hate to make this comparison, or at least hope it's not misinterpreted, but I kind of see pillowfriends being similar to being "prison gay" a little. Granted, pillow friends seem to have a much more intimate relationship, but it's another example of a situation where people who are denied much interaction with the opposite sex engage in temporary same sex relationships.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Re: Suian and Moiraine's relationship.

 

I don't think it was done badly. I mean, look at Moiraine and Suian. They probably have the strongest wills out of everyone in the series. I mean, look what Moiraine sacrificed for Rand. Moiraine accepted imprisonment by the finns and accepted the possibility of death to save Rand.They found something much more important than themselves, I have no trouble seeing them throw away such a relationship for the greater good. Its totally in sync with their characters.

[LeeM.Erickson]

Yeah. It's not like they stopped being friends for no reason. In addition to wanting to make people forget they were friends as novices/Accepted in order to remain low key, Siuan was Amyrlin for ten of the twenty years they were searching for Rand, and I don't think Moiraine went back to the Tower more than a couple of times after initially leaving.

[Lisa Campbell]

The main thing this thread makes me think of was in New Spring, where somewhere in a Moiraine POV she says she could kiss Siuan, and did. I think pillow friends implies a semi-sexual relationship, but does not exclude or limit the 'pillow-friends' from dreaming of or practising in other relationships - re: Siuan and the footman, or Moiraine's exploits when she found out she would be departing from Cairhein to the Tower.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

does any relationship exclude or limit that?