[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[mmeeshal]

I dunno....I haven't seen it much myself, Kae. I've seen people give up and say "whatever," but not usually self-voting, not as town....

[Sakaea]

Like I said, I've seen both. Almost did it myself once, as town, cus I got so damned irritated with the whole thing.

[Spirit1025]

For now, I think I'll keep my vote where it was before.

Vote: BG

[Sakaea]

Ah, another country heard from.

 

Mind sharing your reasoning, Spirit?

[Netbattler11]

I always see people who are kinda-sorta-but-not-really scummy. BG and Levity both ping. BG more so, but he is an uncountered finder that I don't want to test too much... That said, I don't think he's doing to well with this whole finder gig. Levity's attack and half-reveal reads sort of scummy, but I could also see her being town...

 

I'll keep watching for now.

[loki redfern]

This arguement still doesn't make sense for me. Its circular. If I'm gonna get lynched, I'm going to reveal the person anyway cause I'm not going to die with the only info I have. So there's that. If I were mafia, then it wouldn't make any sense to "narrow" the pool down to "help the scum" by creating a nice pool of people to choose from and free NK's all around and Merry Christmas and whatnot and so forth. To want to help the scum have a free NK pool, I'd need to be scum by definition... but then we go back to that not being helpful at all for the scum team. Saying the group gives the Doc a more likely chance than saying nothing at all. Saying the specific person has its ups and downs considering the potential manipulative possibilites, so I asked town what they thought.

 

ok

you say Innocent: mafia have ~15 people to nk. healer is on you. mafia have to choose. 1/15 chance of them hitting the person you investigated. mafia have more choice = more chance of messing up and giving away info.

 

you say innocent, one of those who was attacking me yesterday: healer is on you. 1/2, 1/5 chance of them hitting the person you investigated, lets go with 1/5 for arguments sake. mafia less choice = less chance of messing up, less information for the town

 

you say innocent = person x: either healer is 50% on your or person x, or person x is protected by another role, bus driver jailer, etc. 0/14 chance of nking a confirmable* innocent, more choice, more chance of messing up, more town info

 

yea? its basic maths. if you just say innocent, then we are 3 times more likey to have the confimed* innocent still alive.

your way, they are pretty likely to die

you say who then low to zero chance of either of you dying.

 

i really dont think i can say it any simpler. doing what you did helps the mafia. its a mathamatical fact.

 

doing it they way you did it helps the mafia most. your largest detractors would get nked, without it looking bad on you, and your finderness is corener assisted

[Niniel]

I´m not even trying to understand your math and am not interested in it. If I wasn´t already voting BG I wouldn´t do it because of this.

 

 

I always see people who are kinda-sorta-but-not-really scummy. BG and Levity both ping. BG more so, but he is an uncountered finder that I don't want to test too much... That said, I don't think he's doing to well with this whole finder gig. Levity's attack and half-reveal reads sort of scummy, but I could also see her being town...

 

I'll keep watching for now.

 

Hard to decide what leg you are going to stand on?

[Levity]

I don't know. Should I full-claim and explain myself early, to perhaps get a better understanding of game mechanics here in the future, or is this something I should ask the moderator? I'm not quite even sure it's a question the moderator can answer at this point...

 

I'm unsure of what to do, because people don't like early full-claims, but my role is useless as is if it's what I'm thinking it is.

[Levity]

I feel bad for causing all of this confusion now. u.u

[mmeeshal]

I think it's up to you whether you want to make it public or ask the mod.

 

Personally, I'd rather you reveal, since you HAVE caused so much confusion and I think it would help clear things up if you do; but it's really your choice.

[Levity]

Personally, I'd rather you reveal, since you HAVE caused so much confusion and I think it would help clear things up if you do; but it's really your choice.

I think I'm just going to do it, then.

 

I don't know if I'm allowed to reveal my character? but I am, indeed, a role-manipulator--a re-directing role. Now, here's what I'm confused about.

 

Let me use an example for clarity: Let's say that I am a Finder role. I am suspicious of Meesh and ultimately decide to scan her--however, my action gets re-directed to Nyn. Now, do I get any specific notifications that my investigation was re-directed to Nyn, or do I instead ONLY get Nyn's alignment instead of Meesh's, leading me to believe that Meesh is whatever alignment Nyn is?

 

This troubles me, because in every other mafia community I've played, it worked somewhat like this:

 

"Me: I wish to scan player X tonight

Mod: You scanned player Y and got <insert alignment here>"

 

My original plan was to test if BG at least had an actual night action or not. For example, if he had claimed to scan someone and did not mention being informed that his action was altered, it would lead me to believe he didn't truly have a night action at all. But if players here aren't even informed of this, then this means only I know the player he got re-directed to last night, UNLESS I myself got roleblocked somehow.

 

I also re-directed his action to a player I myself found only a tiny bit suspicious of D1; I didn't reveal this because I wanted to conceal my FLAWLESS MASTER PLAN which obviously only served to cause needless shenanigans. And I understand there was a number of other ways my idea could go awry, but I never take considerable risks in mafia and wanted to take a chance for once.

[Levity]

Oh, and my re-directing ability in particular: I can choose a player each night and re-direct their action to someone else.

 

so, uh, yeah.

[mmeeshal]

I think it depends on the mod, but usually, with redirecting roles here, no one's actually notified that people have been switched. Fun stuff went down with that in a current game in the BT. XD

[mmeeshal]

So yeah.... Umm....thinking.... I'm thinking you shouldn't reveal who you redirected BG to.... Dunno what anyone else thinks.... But at the moment... I dunno.... See, this all hinges on if BG's telling the truth or not.

 

I can't make myself believe he's actually the Finder, hence my thinking you shouldn't give any names out; but if we knew BG was telling the truth that would be a different story.

 

But...yeah.... I dunno.

[Sakaea]

Yeah, we aren't usually informed of being re-directed, blocked, etc.

 

Unvote Levity.

 

I'd like to hear from some of the quieter people, myself.

[Sakaea]

Yeah, I wouldn't reveal who you redirected to either. Unless that person becomes in danger of being lynched.

[mmeeshal]

I GUESS....we could use this to vet BG or not...maybe...well, not really...okay...never mind...

 

What I was thinking is Levity could reveal who she switched BG to, and then we could lynch THEM, but then, that doesn't really guarantee BG's telling the truth if they flip Lightsworn, ya know?

 

So yeah. Ignore me. XD

[mmeeshal]

Okay. I know Nolder's active, he HAS to have some thoughts.

 

Nolder, care to share?

[Amadine]

Vote Count

 

BG (5) - Loki, Meesh, Tina, Nyn, Spirit

Levity (1) - BG

Not Voting: Nolder, Corrosive, Verb, Ishy, Turin, Kae, Ed, Red, Key, Maw, Pandy, Womby, Des, Ledinna 2.0, Soyo, Levity

22 players = 12 to lynch

 

 

A few FYIs

Read the rules, in particular.... 12. *steals Lily's rule* no self-votes! A vote of No Lynch is allowed.

Night actions not submitted are assigned randomly.

Expect the unexpected.

[bgrishinko]

My bad.

[SBoydW]

I haven't seen anything to deter my Day 1 feelings. Vote BG. I have a lot of catching up to do but I'm at work right now so my time is limited. I'll have more to say either on my lunch break or when I get home around 7am (EST).

[WWWwombat]

BG is the scummiest uncountered finder I have ever seen but he remains uncountered so I will not vote for him right now.

 

BG, how would a tailor mess with you unless the tailor knew who you were targeting?

[ed2funy]

Wow...crazy Levity. Caused a lot of confusion. lol

 

Also, didn't catch the stuff on BG yesterday, so Meesh for now. :P

[SBoydW]

Wow...crazy Levity. Caused a lot of confusion. lol

 

Also, didn't catch the stuff on BG yesterday, so Meeshfor now. :P

 

Didn't catch as in didn't see what was suspicious, or didn't catch as in didn't read?

[SBoydW]

I think we have to take a shot on vetting BG here. I think if we don't it's going to take up to much attention in the future with us questioning whether or not we can trust anything he says, and if we can trust any of his reveals. I think BG should reveal who he got info on, and Levity can confirm if that's who he should have gotten info on or not.

 

That is if I understood her role correctly... Levity did you control who BG got diverted to or did you just say "re-direct his role" and it was random?

 

I know that if Lev does confirm BG is fider, BG will have confirmed a townie (don't reveal roles if you got them). That actually wouldn't be a bad thing in my mind, because the Mafia already know who isn't on their team so it's not like we'd be telling them something they didn't know. Also it's one less person to have to look at.

 

This is, of course, if BG and Lev aren't gambitting us (meesh mentioned this earlier I believe). I could see that too. It would make sense why BG is delaying telling us who he found, and why Lev floundered so long about her role reveal, could possibly have been brewing this plan up.

 

*Edited for spelling.